Having an affair with married man

[woinlove]

I think it can be done. Does one go into the nitty gritty details about their relationships especially to one's children?

 

What do you mean about nitty gritty? I am not talking about sex. Yes, if one has a close R with one's children, they seem to very naturally want to know the story of how their parent's met at some point. Family and friends also. It goes along with caring about each other.

 

I know that it can be done as we have read stories here about keeping the affair secret through the divorce, staying underground for a year or so, planning a coming out where the partner is introduced to family and children as a new romantic interest. It does need planning and some people do all that planning so that everyone has the same story. Others just come out and deal with whatever fallout there is because they want to get out of secret affair mode and into an out in the open R as soon as possible. We have seen both examples here on LS.

Edited April 27, 2012 by woinlove

[PeineDeCoeur]

Hi Sylky;

 

I appreciate your desire to try to make this work. But.. when I read your story, I feel that the rollercoaster of being attached to someone going through such a huge transition is going to take an emotional toll on you. I think it's great that your MM is in therapy - that's so positive and shows not only a desire for change, but the motivation to make it happen.

 

I'm just putting it out there - that maybe you need to distance yourself from this a bit while he goes through all these changes. I'm not suggesting NC... maybe LC until the dust settles? I've seen a lot of articles about how hard it is to date someone who is separated - let alone someone who is still married and struggling to make big, big life changes. I've thought about this scenario for myself and confess it just seemed too complicated, and that if we'd made it, eventually have to lie to everyone about the origins of our relationship.

 

I wish you the best -

[UpwardForward]

I think it can be done. Does one go into the nitty gritty details about their relationships especially to one's children?

 

No need to. If he leaves his wife, if he goes to Sylky, everyone incl family and friends will sort things out.

 

(And there may also be a money spent trail, hanging out there.)

Edited April 27, 2012 by UpwardForward

[jwi71]

I confronted him last night about how I was feeling, we've had a few of these discussions before and I said that I had been on the internet reading about affiars and saw the stats that 95% of them don't last and I didn't want to be in that number. He told me that it's not just a physical affair, because if it was it wouldn't have gone on for this long. He genuinely loves me, but needs to sort out a few issues before he can leave his wife. Apart from the kid issue, it includes quite a big financial one that he is in the midst of sorting out.

 

I guess my beginning is to say, as you may have discovered with your own research, that the line of "it wouldn't have gone on for so long if I didn't love you" is a fairly common one uttered by the MM. Often times, these A's last for years, again, as you have no doubt read. It is a mistake to only LISTEN to the words. Pay much more heed to his ACTIONS. And action number one is, of course, to file for D.

 

Have you asked when he is filing for D? Where is he in that process? Does he have a lawyer? That will begin to give you an idea of how long you will be hidden. For instance, if he needs a year to file (work through the emotional process), a year to wait for the D (some states have waiting periods) and then 18 months of "pretend single time (to 'meet you')" then you have to wait almost 3.5 years in the shadows before going public so to speak. Is that something you can do? And that doesn't begin to touch on the whole "dating a man in the middle of a D" support - and you'll need it.

 

He can see a future with me and I can as well, I have accepted he has kids and we have spoken about having kids in the future and getting married. He told me he isn't opposed to any of that, but was clear that he didn't want to rush into that after him divorcing which of course I can appreciate.

 

And I also sure you know what "future-faking" is and why MM's do it.

How old are his kids? What are the plans in regards to you meeting them and beginning to play a role in their lives?

 

But I am a bit confused about that last bit. If he is getting a D and sees this future for/with you....why the "not rushing" bit? Methinks you should pay VERY close attention to that.

 

I asked him, by me continuing seeing him am I prolonging his decision to stay with her as he is getting his cake and eating it too? And he replied definitely not, but would understand if I needed to take a break until he leaves her.

 

No matter what...you ARE making it easier to stay. No matter how bad it is at home - you provide an escape and diversion, however brief, which makes it easier for him (not so much for you though).

 

And that's assuming he wants to divorce.

(I have to say, I've noticed that people who want a D actually get one - not have an A (which is, as you are aware, a choice as well))

 

He is seeing a therapist at the moment to talk through the impending seperation which I'm glad he is doing. Throughout our whole relationship he has been honest and transparent with me and I feel like I can trust him.

 

Is in IC or MC?

How does he expect his M to improve if his W isn't in IC with him?

How does he expect his MC to work if he's having an A with you?

 

Can you independently verify anything he says? I ask because he has a vested interest in lying to you - don't accept the salesman's word typoe of thing.

 

And for trusting him? Well, I wouldn't simply given the amount of lies and deceit he is planning to do and currently doing. Trust is EARNED. And I give trust based not only on how the treat ME but how they treat OTHERS as well.

 

I guess time will tell, but I have given myself a deadline and this time I will stick to it..

 

If you trust him (presumably that he is a) honest and b) meaning what he says)...why do you NEED a deadline?

[jwi71]

I think it can be done. Does one go into the nitty gritty details about their relationships especially to one's children?

 

My children have asked me how I meet my GF and their mother.

Its a perfectly normal and natural question really.

 

They've also asked why I D their mother (xWW)....and I had to 'omit' some things as they are not age appropriate for them.

 

Not sure why you are objecting to this....

[woinlove]

No need to. If he leaves his wife, if he goes to Sylky, everyone incl family and friends will sort things out.

 

(And there may also be a money spent trail, hanging out there.)

 

He doesn't want me to portrayed as the OW in his wife's eyes so he said we have to carefully manage that process when it comes to fruition.

 

We've seen those bolded words used by other MM and I think it does depend on what lengths one is willing to go to. One couple had a several year plan which if they managed to carry it out, I don't see why anyone would know the truth. Maybe they were careful on the money trail too. Notice this MM is concerned about finances, he may have taken care of that. Of course, we haven't heard the "5 years after the carefully managed coming out strategy" to know if it really worked, but in principle it could given a certain mindset of the participants. Again, I'd be one of the let it hang out and deal with it so that we can just be out in the open types myself. Sylky would need to make her own decisions on this, but MM's words suggest a more managed strategy.

[UpwardForward]

We've seen those bolded words used by other MM and I think it does depend on what lengths one is willing to go to. One couple had a several year plan which if they managed to carry it out, I don't see why anyone would know the truth. Maybe they were careful on the money trail too. Notice this MM is concerned about finances, he may have taken care of that. Of course, we haven't heard the "5 years after the carefully managed coming out strategy" to know if it really worked, but in principle it could given a certain mindset of the participants. Again, I'd be one of the let it hang out and deal with it so that we can just be out in the open types myself. Sylky would need to make her own decisions on this, but MM's words suggest a more managed strategy.

 

I know first hand of a MM & OW who were "just good friends". Waited for about three yrs to marry, after the D.

 

But in sloppiness? he put community funds as a down payment on OW's house, and during the D.

 

Also, they did confide their relationship w a few family members.

 

All I'm trying to say is: If there is such a thing as a perfect crime, it doesn't happen very often.

[woinlove]

I know first hand of a MM & OW who were "just good friends". Waited for about three yrs to marry, after the D.

 

But in sloppiness? he put community funds as a down payment on OW's house, and during the D.

 

Also, they did confide their relationship w a few family members.

 

All I'm trying to say is: If there is such a thing as a perfect crime, it doesn't happen very often.

 

I agree with you. I am purposely spelling out some details of how the perfect crime needs to be planned because it might be useful for Sylky to look a bit deeper into what MM is actually implying with his words (not just this one point) so she can decide if they really are moving in the same direction or not. He may be committed to hiding her for the long haul, but is that what she wants.

[Got it]

My children have asked me how I meet my GF and their mother.

Its a perfectly normal and natural question really.

 

They've also asked why I D their mother (xWW)....and I had to 'omit' some things as they are not age appropriate for them.

 

Not sure why you are objecting to this....

 

Objecting to . . . ?

 

Not disclosing everything? I don't see the point. I don't see it as a carte blanche rule that one should discuss there is an emr.

[woinlove]

Objecting to . . . ?

 

Not disclosing everything? I don't see the point. I don't see it as a carte blanche rule that one should discuss there is an emr.

 

It is the entire timeframe. When do you stop hiding your R and come out in the open? MM is thinking of a managed outing and the two should be on the same page for that and recognize the commitment it takes if that outing is to be long after the divorce. Some do commit to such a complex deception - we've seen examples at least in the early stages. I can't say how they turned out in reality in the longer term.

[alexandria35]

I'll never understand how a person can plan a divorce or a seperation without at least letting their spouse know about it. When I decided to leave my last long term live in boyfriend I was quite unable to make any plans or take any actions until I let him know that I wanted us to seperate. I suppose I could have been a selfish b*tch and just sprung my plan on him on the day I moved out and then just left him to deal with it but I'm not like that. I wanted to know his thoughts and what he needed. There were decisions we had to make together. Like who is keeping the dog? how are we going to manage the vehicles we jointly own? who is going to move out of our rented house? one of us or both of us? If I move out, when should I move out? Right now or should I stay for a few months while he gets his stuff in order? There were tons of things I needed his imput on and we weren't even married, nor did we have kids. I could make all the plans I wanted in my head but not a damn thing was going to happen until I told him. He was the very first person I told because to me the first step I had to take was to tell him.

 

If your MM has small children at home shouldn't he be letting his wife in on his decision to divorce so that she can make plans too? Maybe there are steps she needs to be taking to get her life in order first as well. Maybe she needs to start job hunting or taking some night courses so that she can get a decent job. Maybe she needs to go to counselling or rally some support for herself? Since she's about to become a single parent doesn't she deserve some time to make some plans for herself and her kids too? This is one aspect of affairs that I find extra disdainful. You and her husband are making plans behind her back that will have a huge impact on her and her kids and she doesn't even know it's happening. She's not being given the chance to prepare herself or take care of herself the way that he is preparing and taking care of himself. How cruel is that? And its laughable anyways because she is not obligated to conduct herself or the divorce in whatever way he has planned it out in his little head. She will do whatever she wants regardless of his scheme. He can make his secret plans until his head explodes but he doesn't have a clue how things are going to be until he stops being a conflict avoider and actually speaks to her.

 

Not that it matters because nobody can say if he is truly leaving his family or not. The only one who knows the answer to that is him and his choice right now is to stay. Everyday that he spends at home is a choice he is making to be there. Only when he has truly left and is with you out in the open will you be able to say he is choosing you.

[jwi71]

Objecting to . . . ?

 

Not disclosing everything? I don't see the point. I don't see it as a carte blanche rule that one should discuss there is an emr.

 

Ah I see what you're saying. Needed two cups of joe this morning I guess.

 

I think, for me and my parenting style, I try to be open and honest about everything (age appropriate of course) with my children. With everyone really.

 

Its really a matter of choice and opinion. I chose to NOT hide/lie about pertinent details. Not to mention that the BS may choose to tell the truth (provided the BS knows).

 

It just, to me, seems like it would be really difficult to maintain that lie over a lifetime. What if one lets something slip...I'm specifically thinking of a reference to an event which happened during the A. And that the time of that event conflicts with the given story...an accidental outing of oneself.

 

Now whomever, presumably older children at this point, feel lied to and betrayed.

 

That just how I see it. It, for me, would be a cloud over my head...always on guard against letting the truth out. Seems awfully hard to me.

 

But I do see what you are saying Got It.

[Got it]

It is the entire timeframe. When do you stop hiding your R and come out in the open? MM is thinking of a managed outing and the two should be on the same page for that and recognize the commitment it takes if that outing is to be long after the divorce. Some do commit to such a complex deception - we've seen examples at least in the early stages. I can't say how they turned out in reality in the longer term.

 

Yes but I think you cross that bridge when you get to it. Right now that is really putting the cart before horse. I think further discussions would be needed.

[beenburned]

alex,

 

Good post!

 

Yes, it is devious and underhanded not to let your spouse know what your intentions are about divorcing!

 

My STBXSIL went so far as hiding money/loans/cars/condo with the OW.

The money trail has now been revealed in the divorce proceedings, and he will pay for his long term deceit.

[woinlove]

Yes but I think you cross that bridge when you get to it. Right now that is really putting the cart before horse. I think further discussions would be needed.

 

To me, there appears to already be a focus on things going in one direction to the exclusion of the signs pointing in the other direction. This is just one example. Given the A has already been going on for a year, I don't think it is too early to focus on some red flags. This particular flag is not only a hint at just how many more years MM might be imagining keeping Sylky hidden, even under an optimistic scenario, but also at how adept and comfortable he might have become with deception.

[Got it]

alex,

 

Good post!

 

Yes, it is devious and underhanded not to let your spouse know what your intentions are about divorcing!

 

My STBXSIL went so far as hiding money/loans/cars/condo with the OW.

The money trail has now been revealed in the divorce proceedings, and he will pay for his long term deceit.

 

I think hiding financial assets is different from a full disclosure on the laundry list of reasons why one wants to divorce.

 

I divorced because I didn't love my husband any longer and no longer had any energy to keep trying to fix our problems. Saying that did not mean I ever tried to screw him in the divorce though. That is a leap that not everyone takes.

[UpwardForward]

alex,

 

Good post!

 

Yes, it is devious and underhanded not to let your spouse know what your intentions are about divorcing!

 

My STBXSIL went so far as hiding money/loans/cars/condo with the OW.

The money trail has now been revealed in the divorce proceedings, and he will pay for his long term deceit.

 

Law established here about 20 yrs ago: BS can claim Twice their share in this fraud.

[Got it]

To me, there appears to already be a focus on things going in one direction to the exclusion of the signs pointing in the other direction. This is just one example. Given the A has already been going on for a year, I don't think it is too early to focus on some red flags. This particular flag is not only a hint at just how many more years MM might be imagining keeping Sylky hidden, even under an optimistic scenario, but also at how adept and comfortable he might have become with deception.

 

What I am saying is I doubt he would know the above. Working through a divorce you are usually putting one foot in front of the other. He is in therapy, he is now trying to figure out logistically if he can divorce and if so how. Trying to figure out how long you are going to hide your OP probably not a focus at this point.

 

That doesn't mean that she doesn't have her boundaries and timeline in place but as you see things progressing/or lack thereof and you reevaluate.

 

Some of those decisions are dependent on the situations at hand. For example, he tells his wife he wants to divorce and she shocks him with so does she! Well then, the seperation and timeline may be shorter especially if she is ready to move on as well. But if the spouse is resistant to the divorce, resistant to moving on, and kids are involved, well that can cause things to slow down. Not everyone loses all compassion for their spouse even in a divorce. So how your spouse, and kids, are taking the news will impact things. This process is very fluid so it is hard to determine.

 

Not everything like that can be hammered out. That doesn't mean the big things can't be pinpointed. He does need to start working on a timeline to when he will start the process. Through his therapist he can do this. But right now it sounds like he is still trying to work through the process and has completely decided/reconciled around his fears. This is where her timeline will help her stay focused and not in a holding pattern.

 

Just my two cents.

[woinlove]

No way of knowing what this MM meant by taking care of financial matters. Hopefully he is not doing anything with money without his W knowing he is thinking of separation, although when a person is deceitful with their family and talks about dealing with finances, this is too often the case. Maybe another flag for Sylky to consider.

[Got it]

No way of knowing what this MM meant by taking care of financial matters. Hopefully he is not doing anything with money without his W knowing he is thinking of separation, although when a person is deceitful with their family and talks about dealing with finances, this is too often the case. Maybe another flag for Sylky to consider.

 

I think you are speculating on a very broad comment. I know in my divorce and with dMM's divorce that comment entailed up to and including, thoughts on child support, alimony, potential of division of assets, if a house is upside down how to handle that, does one need to handle that, what would the cost be to have two households.

 

Being in an affair does not mean that one is going to be deceitful with funds in a divorce. Sure it can happen but that can happen without an affair. One is not synomous with the other.

 

I don't think it is necessarily a red flag for Sylky to consider but it may be a topic to discuss and figure out if it is a red flag. Right now you are speculating and making assumptions based on the limited information provided.

[beenburned]

UpF,

 

I have not heard of this law in the state we live in.

 

I live in one of the 13 states here in the US that does recognize adultery as grounds for divorce.(as long as you can provide proof)

 

Both of his OW were so mad at him, they provided my D with everything she needed to prepare for this long messy divorce.

[UpwardForward]

UpF,

 

I have not heard of this law in the state we live in.

 

I live in one of the 13 states here in the US that does recognize adultery as grounds for divorce.(as long as you can provide proof)

 

Both of his OW were so mad at him, they provided my D with everything she needed to prepare for this long messy divorce.

 

I am in a no fault state.

 

My remembrance is of the two types of fraud: extrinsic and intrinsic, if the more deliberate one can be proven, (and in your situation it looks as if it's there), then your attorney can ask for twice your entitlement.

[woinlove]

I think you are speculating on a very broad comment. I know in my divorce and with dMM's divorce that comment entailed up to and including, thoughts on child support, alimony, potential of division of assets, if a house is upside down how to handle that, does one need to handle that, what would the cost be to have two households.

 

Being in an affair does not mean that one is going to be deceitful with funds in a divorce. Sure it can happen but that can happen without an affair. One is not synomous with the other.

 

I don't think it is necessarily a red flag for Sylky to consider but it may be a topic to discuss and figure out if it is a red flag. Right now you are speculating and making assumptions based on the limited information provided.

 

I reread my message and don't see the certainty you see. Phrases like "no way of knowing" "hopefully he is not" "maybe" are meant to convey a possibility that is seen in a not insignificant number of cases in divorces involving deception in other ways. I personally know of examples. So I don't know what assumptions you are referring to.

 

Also, different people have different priorities and values. To me honesty and openness in a life partner is extremely important and so I would watch out for any signs of deception in how a potential life partner treats those close to him. For Sylky and others, it may be the same or different.

Edited April 27, 2012 by woinlove