Can this situation be saved?

[foolish optimist]

I have been in a long distance relationship with this girl for a few months now (I realize this is not a long time), and although it hasn't always been perfect and has been rocky at times, we worked well together and had a strong connection in the past, even though we dont see each other often (its been exactly a month since the last time).

 

So my girlfriend started Prozac (SSRI/anti-depressant, it floods your brain with serotonin to make you feel happy but it drains you of dopamine, the "cuddle hormone" or whatever its called that is involved in bonding, etc. It has been known to have an impact on relationship and love) and at first things were fine, but the last two weeks or so she has been acting strangely and increasingly distant, and started dropping small hints that something was up. My instincts alerted me to this immediately and I could tell right away something was coming, but I didn't know what. At first it was little things like suggestions that the relationship would not last long/we would inevitably split up, then communication dropped off, we used to text all day every day, skype for hours on end, and i would get random phone calls and "I love you!" texts throughout the day. Gradually these things dropped off in frequency until they were virtually nonexistant. Attempts to call her or skype were met with responses of "I can't right now, I have a lot of work to do" or "Im watching Law and Order" or "Im going to bed" etc. Additionally, she was making excuses whenever I tried to get her to meet up with me.

 

The last week or so has been particularly complicated. Monday and Tuesday were fine. Although Monday was our anniversary and when I called her she was in a rush to get off the phone with me (to watch law and order) though she still displayed affection. Wednesday I tried to skype with her, she basically ignored me the entire time (10 minutes or so) texting with a friend of hers instead, and whenever i could get her attention she would go on with how much work she had to do, etc. I got upset and logged out. She texted me later (like 30 minutes later, so much for work) to say goodnight to which I didn't reply. The next morning she texted me and asked me what was wrong, etc. and said she didnt have that warm feeling she usually gets when she goes to bed because I didnt, but she apologized to me for ignoring her etc.... and then she ignored me the rest of the day. Finally, that night she asked me to skype, and everything was fine between us again, she was attentive and affectionate and showered me with i love yous, etc and all was well. I voiced my concerns that we were drifting apart and I was worried the Prozac was affecting her, etc. and she insisted that she felt no differently for me, etc. The next day (Friday) was the same, she was behaving normally, etc. very affectionate and playful and firtatious and loving, etc. although I did notice that she did not say "I love you" either Thursday or Friday (except after I pointed out to her that she had not)

 

Then Saturday came... instead of sending me a text saying "good morning" or "i love you" etc. her first text to me was asking for help with the bus routes in her area because her computer wasn't working. I helped her out, and didn't even get a thank you in return, nor did she display any affection or respond to me when I asked her what she had planned for the day. I got a couple texts later asking me for more help with stuff and then right back to ignoring me. That night we skyped briefly and she was in an entirely bizarre frame of mind, she was complaining that she was unable to focus on anything, and she was getting fed up with other people, etc. etc. but she insisted that she still loved me, etc. when I questioned her on it. She also brought up that she thinks she might have Borderline Personality Disorder and referred to herself as a slut, etc.

 

Then Sunday started off better, I got a 'good morning i love you <3' (at 1:30 in the afternoon) to which I responded in kind and asked her if she was feeling any better... absolutely no response... Finally at 7pm she got ahold of me on Skype and was like "whats going on, i haven't spoken to you at all today" to which i pointed out that she was ignoring me and she once again apologized, and said that she wasn't feeling any better and was lacking in focus and just didnt want to deal with anything anymore, but she still said she loved me.

 

Yesterday, I pretty much got nothing, finally I sent her an email since nothing else seemed to be working:

 

XXX... whats going on? Do you want to break up with me? I realize we've talked about how you're feeling before, but it feels like we've been kinda dancing around the subject, and it feels like you're pulling farther and farther away each day.I get that you've been feeling odd lately because of the Prozac and stuff, but this seems to be more than that, to me it looks like I'm the problem more than you. I know you said you love me and everything, but you barely replied to any of my messages or anything today... I don't expect you to be all cuddly and bubbly like you usually are, but you haven't acknowledged my existence or even let me know how you're doing... Some of the Facebook posts you've made on friends walls and such popped up in my news feed, and you've shown them more affection and emotion and interest than you have to me in days. I don't understand whats happened between us, you seemed to be distant at times last week, but then everything was fine Thursday and Friday, and then suddenly you've all but stopped speaking to me.

 

I want to believe that you love me and that you want to stay with me and that you're just spaced out on meds, but your behavior doesn't seem to be congruent with your words. I have absolutely no experience with this stuff XXX, if you're trying to send me some sort of message then I can't understand it... that you seem to think we should take a break makes me worry even more... the internet (various relationship advice articles, etc.) is saying that your behavior is that of someone who wants to break up, some of the things you've said/done apparently indicate that you have lost interest in me, others that you have apparently gained interest in another or are confused about your feelings in general, and yet others say that you apparently feel guilt over something, such as emotional or physical infidelity of some degree, or lying or something. I don't believe you to be the type that would do that to me, but you also keep bringing up the promiscuity thing and I just don't know anymore, I'm lost, confused, and i'm scared, and my instincts are telling me that something is wrong, more so than you've let on.

 

Truthfully it feels like you're avoiding me in a lot of ways, every time I try speaking to you you either have work to do, or you're going to bed, or you're not in a mood to talk or something... I get that you are busy and you're under a lot of stress and pressure, and you don't need any more drama in your life, but at this point it seems like you don't even want to give the time of day, when in the past you used to send me messages throughout the day or at least put aside a few minutes of your time to talk to me no matter what was going on. I don't want or expect you to sacrifice your grades for me or anything, but communication between us is virtually non-existent at this point. All you have said to me today was "eh I really got to work".

 

Please, don't shut me out, talk to me, tell me whats happening... please... I don't know what I'm supposed to do or what you're expecting me to do, or even what you're really thinking or feeling.

 

I love you very much,

 

YYY <3

she responded shortly thereafter with something to the effect of "Sorry for scaring you, I don't have much patience for people anymore. I'm feeding off of them to pass time and get my mind off things more than because I want to talk to them." We talked a little bit, and she was like "I have no feeling for anyone, I dont want to be touched by anyone, its not just you so dont take it personally, etc." eventually I decided to go to bed, I told her I loved her but she no longer responded in kind, only saying goodnight, sleep well, and apologizing for everything.

 

Today, she started chatting with me in the early afternoon out of the blue. We discussed things, I managed to get her to speak to me. She admitted she is considering breaking up with me, she doesn't know what to do about me, she doesn't want to hurt me, etc. She told me that she is trying to get in contact with her Psychiatrist to see if there is something she can do to fix the way she is feeling about everything, etc. I asked her again if something had happened, etc. and like usual all she would say was "I dont know" just that shes been feeling strangely and unable to think or focus. She admitted that she feels happy and she no longer feels depressed, but she has no feeling for me. Then she finally (after some prodding) said "I haven't been attracted to you lately, sometimes I'm attracted to others, but it feels like pieces of you have been missing. It feels like 'you've changed'." and then she went to take a nap... In the meantime, while she napped I decided that we should take a short 'break'. I told her we would still be in a committed relationship, etc. but no contact whatsoever between us until Saturday. We would take the time to think about things, re-evaluate our feelings etc.

 

A couple hours later she texted me: "It isn't like you're not attractive etc to me. It's like (cliche) I love you, but I'm not in love with you. It isn't the same feeling you know?" and about 10 minutes after that "Yo at least let me know you got this." I had a friend send her a message on my behalf saying we will talk saturday and no contact means no contact.

 

My question is, what do you make of this situation? Do you think it can be saved somehow? Have you experienced something similar? Is it the Prozac like I theorize?

 

This is a girl who in the past has told me we had incredible chemistry and described our relationship as being "something substantial" and more meaningful than most relationships she has been in, yet somehow in the span of a few days to a week (depending on how you look at it) she went from being my love to being a virtual stranger... I admit that I agree with her assessment that I have changed as of late. I recently graduated college and am unemployed, although hopefully that will be changed sometime in the next week or so. My confidence has dropped, I have been suffering a tinge of depression myself, I've been more reserved, quicker to anger, less humorous, etc. In addition to that, I sensed that something was happening early on. I thought maybe she was cheating on me (I have become increasingly paranoid as of late) even though there was ample evidence to prove otherwise and was being a bit more critical of her actions, and treating her with suspicion and in a way I may have been distancing her myself. I've also been (admittedly) acting pretty needy and whiny and basically whipped. On Saturday when she didn't respond to me for the whole day, I texted her multiple times in a few minutes asking her if she was okay and telling her i was worried something had happened, etc. So I dont fault her if she really does feel as though I changed, and she seems reluctant to kick me to the curb just yet, but i am at a loss as to what I should do at this point...

 

I'm hoping that with a few days of not hearing or seeing from me (I've restricted her access to my facebook account to further distance her from me) she might miss me, if not realize that I mean something to her and I'm worth fighting for. But what do I do come Saturday? Obviously I need to (on some level) prove to her that I am still the same person she fell in love with, etc. but the way I see it, with her lowered Dopamine levels and the distance between us preventing any way of triggering a release of it I dont know if it will be enough. Im hoping that the psychiatrist decides to switch up her antidepressants since different ones impact peoples emotions in different ways. I'm thinking I may extend it an additional week, more time for her to realize I mean something to her, etc. But I'm also worried that putting more distance between us will just push her away faster... Do I wait for her to contact me once the appointed day has come?

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[january2011]

I don't have a lot of experience with anti-depressants so my advice is going to be a bit limited in this respect.

 

My initial thoughts are that things may not get better. Many people battle depression for their entire lives and it can be very debilitating. She may be like this for the rest of her life with only brief periods of respite. And you'll have to keep hearing, "I love you but I'm not in love with you," over and over again.

 

It is difficult to tell how much of her feelings can be attributed to the drugs. However, the fact that she doesn't find you attractive but finds other people attractive suggests that her interest in you has waned. It would be very easy to blame the drugs and hold onto the belief that deep down she still really loves. However, she has said so many things that suggest that she doesn't really want to be in this relationship anymore. These things, she cannot take back.

 

So, what do you do? I suggest that you focus on yourself. Get yourself to a position of strength where you have a clearer perspective on the situation without the emotional turmoil that you're currently experiencing. If she contacts you, then play it by ear. Otherwise, give her some time and space to sort out what's going on at her end.

[foolish optimist]

I would agree with you, but im still confused about a lot of what she said. For example, her initial statement that she hasn't been feeling attracted to me lately, but that she is attracted to others sometimes, etc. is confused by the follow on statement that she finds me attractive, but that "She loves me but isn't in love with me" and that the feelings she has towards me have changed. Its further confused by the fact that she stated previously that she had no feelings towards anyone and that she feels 'completely asexual'.

 

Otherwise I agree, I have been focusing on myself to get my confidence back up and try to get my frame of mind back to what it was when we first met (rather than the rather sorry state its been for the past month or so).

 

But what happens come Saturday (the appointed day of a return to speech)? Do I wait for her to contact me (while im hoping she jumps at me and tells me how much she misses me, i dont expect it)? Do I try to have a heart to heart with her? Do I tell her lets take another week?

 

Right now im thinking to play it by ear like you suggest, but if she doesn't contact me by late afternoon (say 5 o'clock) to initiate contact myself, though im still not sure what to say. I know that the image i want to portray is that of someone who is calm, cool, collected, confident, and not needy, desperate, etc. but at the same time I would want to be tender, yes? I feel like "I miss you" for example might be something that could break the ice or just serve to push her further away.

[january2011]

I once read on another forum, "People who don't know what they want can still hurt you in the same way that people who are deliberately out to cause you pain," - or something to that effect.

 

She might be on this medication for the rest of her, so this is the version of her that you're going to have to accept. Can you see a future in living like this?

 

Yes, wait for her to contact you first. If she doesn't, then perhaps a quick message the following day. Yes, be tender. Go with your intuition. But maintain respect for yourself. She's not giving you much to work with here.

 

In my opinion, she really needs to meet you halfway if this relationship has any chance of working out.

[foolish optimist]

I agree about meeting me half way, and thats basically what I intend to tell her. Sadly, the research I have been doing about the effects of antidepressants on relationships says that when this sort of thing happens, the person in question usually feels as though this is how they really feel and that they are in control, etc. Its even worse because apparently if/when their treatment ends, the old emotions usually come back. I've seen anecdotal evidence of situations where a marriage ends in divorce shortly after treatment begins, and years later when it ends the old emotions come rushing back, followed shortly by a lot of regret...

 

As for being on medication for the rest of her life, I dont think so. Her plan when she started treatment was to stay on them until about this time next year at the longest. She is dealing with a lot of stress at the moment because of her studies, as well as the fact that her mom, aunt, and uncle have all been diagnosed with cancer in the past 6 months or so and are/were undergoing treatment. They also found tumors in her breast and ovaries, so she is being checked for cancer as well. As you can imagine, so much ill fortune at once can take its toll on someones mind (besides the fact that she has been battling depression for years now after having her heart broken apparently). She doesn't want to be on antidepressants forever, just long enough to see her through a very stressful part of her life.

 

As for not knowing what she wants... yeah, I would agree, she seems to be really confused as of late, but what can I do about that? lol

[january2011]

You can be there for her, but it's likely to be at the expense of your own needs and happiness.

 

We have no way of predicting whether this will work out or not. What I am suggesting, however, is that you move out of the mindset that there is a quick fix solution to what she's going through. That is, I suspect that the repercussions of everything that's going on at the moment are likely to be felt throughout the rest of her life. And whether she wants to or not, she may need to take the medication for a lot longer than either of you expect or planned. However, since I am not her doctor, I'll not get into this with you. What I will say is that if you are adamant that you want to support her through this, you may need to be prepared to do this for a lot longer than just one year - with the caveat that she actually wants you to stay.

 

Good luck on Saturday - I hope that you're able to reach a resolution that you're both happy with.

[foolish optimist]

I'm prepared to stick by her, I've not felt her to be a burden on me, if anything I am more bothered that I can't be there for her more often (given the distance). Really, she is generally a very low-maintenance girlfriend although she can at times be insecure (but I shouldnt talk lol).

 

Anyway, thanks, I have a feeling that the outcome of this situation is going to be more down to luck than anything I do to influence it.

[rogerwaters]

Could it be possible that when you were in a relationship with her, she was depressed? What I'm trying to say is that she might have fallen for you because she needed someone at that point and once she started the meds, she found herself back and realized why she was in the relationship in the first place. If that is the case, then certainly, it isn't right of her to have 'used' you, but I've seen people who do that.

[foolish optimist]

I wont discount that possibility but clearly there is a connection between the use of antidepressants and the emotion we call 'love'. Its a commonly reported problem, particularly with SSRI's. Now the question is, does she no longer feel the same because she no longer needs me, or does she no longer feel the same because the meds are suppressing her feelings?

 

While it is possible that it is the former, I think it more likely the latter. The brain "on love" is characterized by low serotonin and high dopamine (amongst other things). The brain on SSRI's is characterized by high serotonin low dopamine. Neuroscience knows that dopamine is responsible (amongst other things) for pair bonding, feelings of attachment, and the warm fuzzy feeling you get when you are in love with someone. Serotonin is known to block these effects, if not cancel them out, as well as to lower overall dopamine levels in the brain. Therefore, I think the best bet would be to convince her to stick with me for a while longer while her psychiatrist adjusts her medication (which I think he apparently has to do anyway given that she is apparently experiencing other side effects that she shouldn't be), and if once shes found the proper match for her condition, is no longer feeling depressed, no longer experiencing blunted emotions, lack of focus, 'zombie state' etc. she still feels nothing for me, then i have to acknowledge that my time is up.

[foolish optimist]

I talked to her (early), and although she admitted that she hadn't thought about me at all during our time apart (increased serotonin levels are associated with a decrease in obsessive thought, etc. so thats understandable), she did talk to her psychiatrist, and they dropped her dosage down by half to where it was a few weeks back (when things were still good between us and she was the happiest without negative side effects). It was kind of disturbing though, she was very serene and calm but very devoid of feeling. I dont know if it was pointed at me or just in general.

 

So, my next question is how to proceed from here? Prozac has the longest half-life of any antidepressant, meaning it stays in your system, so its going to take a month or so for her to readjust back down, but (hopefully) I should see a gradual increase in her feelings for me once more. How should I go about treating her during this time? Keep my distance and let her take the reigns for a bit and set the pace?

[january2011]

If you can hold on for a month, why not? I think you're leaning that way anyway.

 

I suggest letting her take the lead, with some gentle coaxing from you. I think it would be unwise to expect too much from her. However, at the back of your mind, it would be prudent to prepare yourself in case you don't get the result that you want when the month is over.

[foolish optimist]

Agreed. What would you consider 'gentle coaxing'? Any examples/ideas?

 

I feel awkward talking to her truthfully, she is very aloof, moreso than she has ever been, when we first met she was extremely foreward with me from the word go, now she seems hesitant or even reluctant to speak with me. She still isn't sure what to do or where to go or what to talk about with me it seems, I feel like we need to discuss the nature and state of the relationship before we can move on, but I also want to keep things lighthearted and not to serious so she doesn't like freak out and tail it or something.

[january2011]

A 'check-in' chat with her, maybe a few times a week. Just to see how she is.

 

The 'state of our relationship' talk might be more productive if you do it at the end of the month, when her head is clearer.

 

I don't know if she will warm to you and become less aloof, you'll have to play it by ear. If your intuition tells you that the distance is growing between the two of you, then you may have to accept that this is not going to work out the way that you want it to.

[foolish optimist]

Yeah, the way im thinking it right now in my head is i've got a big hurdle to overcome. I went back through text/chat logs from the period during which she was at the 10mg dosage and she was definitely affectionate and loving and as 'normal' as I ever remember her being, but from what I gather (conjecture, although there is anecdotal evidence that the emotion is simply suppressed and will come back on its own) she is basically going to have to fall in love with me all over again which isn't necessarily easy as her brain chemistry will not be the same as it was when we first met, etc.

 

And yeah, I think I will hold back a few weeks until she is more comfortable talking (and more capable of forming an opinion and no longer emotionally blunted). Otherwise the 'check-in' chat is what i was figuring to do. Make myself easily available via skype/aim, etc. and let her come to me on her own terms, and every 3 days or so have a small chat about something somewhat insignificant, like a film, etc. I'm guessing that by the end of next week she should start to be a little more accessible to me.

[january2011]

I don't think it's going to be easy, unfortunately. I wish you luck. Do come back to update if you're able to.

[foolish optimist]

Will do...

 

Although one thing has me scratching my head, should I display any sort of affection at all? I'm worried that she'll feel suffocated, but I dont see how we can rebuild the romance between us if neither of us is doing so

[january2011]

Yes, show some affection. Be consistent and interested. Practise active listening when she talks/vents to you. Do what you say you're going to do. Be reliable. If you know what makes her smile and happy, try some of those things again, such as flowers or her favourite food. But don't go overboard so that she feels smothered.

[rogerwaters]

I think you are really blaming the meds too much for her behavior. Could you post a link to that study? I'm not saying you are wrong, but sometimes, magazines and other websites who post the results of such studies misguide people because their way of interpreting results of the study is oftentimes wrong. WRT to your situation, I think you should go through this one month, try and be supportive without blaming her or the even the meds. Since she clearly means so much to you, give it a shot. I know it will be tough, but you will know, for better or worse, what you deserve.

[foolish optimist]

I freely admit that my personality had an impact on the situation and might have exacerbated it, but unless she hasn't been forthcoming and truthful with me, she is truly of a different mind at the moment (which is evident in that her psychiatrist recommended a reduction in dosage to counteract her other side effects). Admittedly, the feeling I get when I do speak to her is that she doesn't really want to talk to me, why I cannot say. If I annoy her, etc. she won't freely admit to it (though she is grateful for me trying to give her space, so I imagine that is probably the case), but she does seem to feel awkward speaking to me, as though she doesn't know what to talk about (the chemistry is seriously just nonexistent between us right now), and she has admitted that she doesn't know what to do/how to handle the situation. I figure I'll check in once every 2-3 days and try to avoid the subject of "us" and just focus on talking about mutual interests and such, get her to open up again, feel comfortable around me, joke around, etc. you know, just be 'normal'.

 

 

Here is the main study: http://www.helenfisher.com/downloads/articles/18ecn.pdf

 

there are other lesser known/publicized ones, and there is also plenty of anecdotal evidence available if you browse around online/google as well. To summarize, antidepressants (SSRI's in particular) have a known impact on a bunch of things relating to romantic interest. For example, they limit 'obsessive thought' (for this reason they are also sometimes used to treat OCD), which if you've ever been in love, you know that you simply can't get that person out of your head no matter what. By her own admission she hadn't really thought of me while we weren't talking, whereas I was actively trying to distract myself (and failed, often times because something reminded me of her for no real reason) and couldn't not think of her.

Edited April 28, 2012 by foolish optimist

[rogerwaters]

I went through the article, couldn't read it completely (it is really long!). But, from what I could make out of it, it seems that the author has a strong theory, but, I'd still like to see if any scientific studies were done confirming the findings - like comparing two groups and observing them for a period of time. I think apathy is a side effect of SSRIs and perhaps that is what your girlfriend had during her course with the meds. I feel really bad for you and what you are going through, and since you are willing to stick with her, just give it some time. Things will work out eventually, one way or another.

[foolish optimist]

Yeah, ive been trying to find something a bit more concrete myself but I can't. The best I could manage was a statement from a (somewhat disaffected) psychiatrist that psychiatric medicine is a joke, nobody really knows exactly how medications like antidepressants really work, its only based on (limited) observation and measurements of known properties of the brain, and that drug manufacturers (and thus many psychiatrists) don't even acknowledge apathy/emotional blunting, etc. as a real side-effect, despite the wealth of evidence and experiences of many that show it to be real.

 

And yeah, we're toughing it out. She has been talking to me a bit more recently and initiating conversation, etc. She still keeps things short when we do ("I have to go/I'm going to bed/I've got work to get to" etc) but she is opening up to me again and 'keeping me in the loop', etc. and we can still enjoy joking around with eachother from time to time, so i'll take that as a positive sign. I dont know what the outcome of the situation will be, but at least we can say we tried. It'll be another week or two I think before I have a clearer indicator on which way things are headed.