Great relationship. Should I ask him if he's lying about contact with ex?

[PrettyPoppy]

Hi all,

 

So I really have a great relationship. He is kind, supportive, intelligent and is basically all I want. We have been seeing one another for a bit now. So what is the problem?

The ex gf.

At first I was reasonable about her, he told me they were "friends" and she had cheated on him hence they broke up. I have no idea why, but he sort of obsessively mentioned this ex non-stop until I had to ask the nature of this relationship. Duly, she was out of control on his FB whereby if he breathed she "liked" it and often had to try and one up me in commentary. She also would ring him up and ask him to have sex. Exasperated, I finally stated that I was uncomfortable with this "friendship" and that I was willing to have a casual (friend/sex) relationship with him with her in the picture but would date other people as I could not make a committed relationship with an ex in the picture to this extent. Let me just state that I am not of the ilk to support ex friendships. Friendly, sure. Friendships, no. I've never seen it work and usually the subtext is a terrible ego charade. No thank you.

He decided he did not want a casual relationship and would stop contact with her. I would have gone either way, but I certainly preferred a deeper connection.

She also has mental health issues (on SSI/SSD) and a few months after this impasse (she was still on his FB) she did some wacky stalker thing on her facebook posting pictures of him...blah blah. Basically I had enough and told him in no uncertain terms this was insane drama and I was not into it at all. I was also quite pissed off. He un-friended her without my prompting.

So far, he's made the right moves...but with a hitch: all times he told her it was "me" who was making him do these things. Well, yes and no. Yes, I did say I would not have a monogamous relationship with him with her in the pic and he chose to have commitment. The un-friending on FB was his idea. I didn't like that "loophole" and told him as such in not the kindest (read bitchy) of ways.

An aside: he has many female friends and I don't have issue with it. He also has exes on his facebook (as do I) who have reasonable boundaries and I'm cool with that as well. It's just this particular person...well I smell a power play with me from her and I don't know wtf from him, prob residual hurt and no shortage of ego salve from her attention post the lying/cheating thing. Hey, we are all human but really can't ask anyone to share in our ego trips with exes

So now, the topic is a touchy one. I know I contributed to that scenario by basically stating that if I'm to stay in this relationship, she goes. I also didn't force it and offered options that would/could work.

Fast forward to today: All is great. He is great. We get along well..but I smell lying. I smell anxiety about smartphone and rushing to grab it, turning it over etc. I smell a recent incident she would be VERY likely to contact him over. I smell but don't know anything. I've kept mum for about 2 weeks.

I don't know what to do.

Should I ask and disturb the relationship? Should I let it go and just accept that I may be being lied to? I really need feedback here.

[InJest]

I like how you've handled the situation every step of the way so far.

 

I think you should either confront him directly, or distance yourself from him. If you decide to confront, then just be calm and direct. Wait until you see him scramble for his phone, and then say something like, You've been acting really weird with your phone lately, have you been talking to (ex's name)? His answer will be very telling and you should ask to see the phone if you have any doubts about his answer. If he refuses to show you, or get mad at you, or calls you controlling, then don't say anything else. Get up and leave.

 

If you decide to distance yourself, you should cease initiating contact and be short with him. When you see him, act very aloof and uninterested in him. If he asks you whats wrong via text or phone, play dumb don't tell him what you're thinking until he asks in person. If he asks in person, then say what I told you to say in the above paragraph for the confrontation.

 

Basically, you need to ask him when he doesn't have a chance to delete anything. Or you can just go straight to him and tell him that you want to just date him casually because you're suspicious he's still talking to the ex. If he objects then make him call/text her and tell her that he wants no more contact without mentioning your name at all.

[PrettyPoppy]

I appreciate the feedback InJest.

 

Ironically, the distancing thing I do naturally. I sort of cannot help it when I'm uncomfortable and my trust is waning. I begin to separate from the person as a self protection method. So far I have not had that reaction and instead feel reluctant to stir the pot. I really do love him and enjoy my time with him.

 

I was considering next weekend or the next time I notice smartphone weirdness asking, but if told the truth (see, my gut is speaking there) that she has been contacting him again via phone/message/email I am considering asking him what he thinks I should do with this information. I can also explain why it is a problem for me: he chose to risk our connection over this woman by being deceptive.

 

Sometimes I wonder why I even care if things between us are ok. I would like feedback on that too. How important is this in the grand scheme of things?

[InJest]

It certainly seems like you're uncomfortable and your trust is waning, so I don't see why you shouldn't react to it this time.

 

Start treating the relationship as a casual one. Stop sleeping over at his place, even if you have sex with him. Don't just get up and leave right away, but after you clean yourself up just tell him you're heading out. Tell him you want him to have some space and privacy.

[WildHorses]

How long ago did they break up? Could you be a rebound? I never date those that are not over an ex, or just ended a relationship, are married...etc.

 

I have an ex who has been a friend. We are also both single. If I enter into a new relationship, and the new person has an issue with us being friends, I will cut all ties to the ex out of respect for my new relationship. If I'm not willing to cut ties, then that would mean I don't value the relationship, and perhaps I should not even be in that new relationship in the first place.

 

If you are feeling uncomfortable, have intuition that something is going on, ask him first...then you need to sit down and think about yourself. What you want out of somebody. Perhaps this person is not the one for you. With no trust, there is no relationship. You deserve the truth, and you have value. You deserve respect.

[RiverRunning]

<3 you WildHorses.

 

Well OP, the only thing I can do is bring my experience to the table: my then-boyfriend's inability to let go of his ex killed my relationship (in my case, I had NO idea he was still talking to her until we had been dating for about a year. But the constantly positive chatter about her, how I would've liked her, talk about how he wanted to send her a gift, etc., REALLY should have been a clue). There was a huge power struggle that went on for about two years. He finally stopped talking to her, talking about her, etc. By then, my trust in him was crushed. I had to constantly fight the urge to snoop on his computer and see if he was still talking to her or still visiting her social networking profile.

 

The fact that he would entertain any kind of civility or friendliness with this woman after she called him up for sex is beyond me. And I think that's your answer. It shows you what he's thinking - he may well love the ego trip of having two women interested in him at the same time.

 

IMO, friendships with exes generally don't work (unless you have children together). That aside, at best, it usually seems to work out to be benign. In the worst case scenario, one or both exes simply can't move on and they end up screwing over their new partners with all of their emotional baggage. It's just not worth it. No hard feelings, but the relationship's over...see ya later.

 

I would never again date a guy who's in contact with an ex, especially after my experience. The moment I hear about what his ex is up to, I am OUT of there. I've got no time for BS. Sometimes, I think the entire dating pool is infested with stupidity and truckloads of baggage.

 

I really think you can do the same. The trust is evaporated, and rightfully so. He should've nipped that in the bud ages ago.

[CC12]

Sometimes I wonder why I even care if things between us are ok. I would like feedback on that too. How important is this in the grand scheme of things?

 

Things between you are not really okay if he's still in contact with someone who has been disrespectful of your relationship. In the grand scheme of things, it's pretty important to know if he's going behind your back to speak to a meddling ex. It would show a lack of concern for you and an inability to stick to his word.

 

Also, I really think it sucks that when he cut contact with his ex, he said it was because you made him. She probably took that as somewhat of an invitation to keep communicating with him as long as you didn't find out. He set it up (intentionally or not) to where if she contacted him, she would be disregarding your rules, not his. And she doesn't care about your rules.

 

if told the truth (see, my gut is speaking there) that she has been contacting him again via phone/message/email I am considering asking him what he thinks I should do with this information.

 

What he thinks you should do? If he wants your relationship to stay as it is, then there is only one answer to that, and it boils down to, "Uh, please forget about this incident and I promise it won't happen again." What do you think you should do with that information?

[Joaquin]

Op you have been given solid advise by these posters. I have nothing to add except to say I've been there and I left someone because of it. Secret texts become secret calls become secret meets become secret...etc you get the picture.

 

Keep your high standards and don't let a douche bring you down to a level you clearly feel uncomfortable with.

[PrettyPoppy]

I appreciate all the responses. I still have not asked him if she has contacted him. He is not a bad boyfriend: he is attentive, loving, shows up thick or thin and speaks of the relationship in long term ways. That is what is so difficult.

River: I want to ask- how did the ex impact the relationship? Was it that he had witheld the contact that really did in the trust or was there actual behavior too?

Did they re-unite post your departure?

[serial muse]

Also, I really think it sucks that when he cut contact with his ex, he said it was because you made him. She probably took that as somewhat of an invitation to keep communicating with him as long as you didn't find out. He set it up (intentionally or not) to where if she contacted him, she would be disregarding your rules, not his. And she doesn't care about your rules.

 

I just wanted to highlight this, because I agree that this sucks. And the bit in bold is spot-on.

 

I don't think that means he has plans to cheat, necessarily, but it's still a red flag that he couldn't say an outright no to her - he had to make you the heavy. That's not cool and he should own up to that. To me, it says that he is on some level enjoying the idea of her begging him to come back to her - even if he has no plans to do so. It's an ego trip. And he needs to get off it if he wants to preserve trust with you.

[PrettyPoppy]

Believe me, he heard an earful about the "loophole" he apologized for it. I had huge problems with it...actually such large problems with it I now don't know if I should "follow up" months later and re-bring it up. The loophole makes me very distrusting of him, though I have little reason to doubt him (see above why)

I don't want to push this relationship away with neurosis and hence I fear asking the question "did she contact you when (the situation) occurred?" I dont' ask because it seems a viper pit: he lies, I find out- I break up with him. He tells me she did contact him and he handled it in his usual loophole way - I break up with him. He handled it in a non-loophole way - hrm harder, my main gripe would be with the keeping it from me, not sure if I'd break up with him, but also not sure this would be repairable.

It all sort of sucks. I do love him. He is very kind and loving to me. Sometimes I think I'm the one who needs to put it down, but it gnaws at me.

[serial muse]

I hear you, and I really don't envy the position you're in...but I also would say you should give yourself a bit of a break, because it's not entirely self-created! I think what you're feeling is entirely understandable.

 

I would say just ask him - and if it's possible to do so in a quiet moment, without an accusing tone, but in a way that opens the door to greater intimacy, that would be best. Just confess that you've been feeling concerned for the past two weeks, and wondering if he's been in contact with her, and that it's worrying you. Go from there.

 

Edited to add: In other words, don't bust out with "are you lying to me" but say "I've been wondering if you're back in contact with her, and it's been worrying me"...more likely to foster conversation that way.

[PrettyPoppy]

He's pretty sensitive so it's very difficult to not trigger him even with the best of tones. It's also a bad topic, it's THAT TOPIC, post the sh$t fit I had regarding the loophole. I can expect him to become completely defensive.

Regarding an earlier question: they broke up in 2009. She was cheating on him including using the same correspondence (i kid you not) with him and the others and simply changing the name. He doesn't trust her, but I can tell it's his big relationship. It's also seriously insane: he unfriended her on FB but I swear this woman has friended everyone- his family, his dentist, his dog..you get the pic. Personally, I would loose it to epic levels if some ex did that crap in my life...actually I'd be scared. She *does* have mental health issues and is on SSDI. Basically I was furious he even tried to date me with all this mess...this is messy to me and I have kids with exes (he doesn't)

[threebyfate]

Cheating exes. Hmm...complex emotions which can cause cognitive dissonance within the person cheated on so I'm not going there.

 

As a thought, what you can do is to ask him if he believes in the concept of emotional cheating.

[Million.to.1]

My God... this is the story with my ex too. He would make out that he felt nothing towards her, they weren't friends on FB, but they were forever keeping tabs on each other via varies social networking, foursquare twitter..etc.. She was one of those comments on everything people too....

 

She was even in a new relationship. So was he... I think now I was actually a rebound.. Even though he was great in the relationship as you described.

 

If you still think he has feelings for her, wants to be with her, then you have a problem.. but maybe he feels some sort of friendly obligation towards her, wants to stroke his own ego etc, but really it's nothing to worry about. He is with you. Clearly that is what he wants. Telling her that you made him delete her etc.. that is just him trying pass the responsibility and not feel guilty.

 

The jealously you are experiencing will push you apart quicker than she will.

 

I think before you act out on this... really think about what scares you about him being in touch with her. Why can they not be friends? if you think it is because he still loves her or wont keep his pants on then ok, but maybe you are worried about nothing.

[BewitchedandBothered]

Why are you afraid to stir the pot when he's got something brewing with the ex? By 'brewing', I mean contact. He said you made him delete the ex? This would mean he had to explain it to her;contact her to smooth it out so she wouldn't get upset. He cares about her feelings. She is an ex, it should be over. Tell him to clean his yard before having someone over. Seriously. Distance yourself; tell him how you feel. He's not over her and has no business dragging you into it. I admire you. CC12 hit the nail on the head and the other posters gave great input as well. Your first reaction is usually the correct one.

[PrettyPoppy]

Million: very close to what concerns me about my own behaviour and his. As i said, I have 0 problem with exes friends with boundaries. She has almost none and there is a decided power sense I got on FB with her (competing for attention) I am of the ilk that real friendships are simply not possible with relationships that were serious, especially if there was betrayal and drama in them. Too much dysfunction push-pull in those relationships where "love" and "trauma" feel like one and the same. Usually the connection has little to do with love, but more to do with the incremental reinforcement and power plays these type of relationships create.

Attention is my big concern or jealousy. I believe she relied on him (and prob others) as fillers of attention for herself, she intensified her attention on him when I came into the picture. That is a HUGE warning sign to me of problems. I"m unwilling to share in that type of crazy triangle. That might sound un-generous, but there are other men, available men all around and why would I waste my time with anyone who would have some re-tread dragging along?

I've had hard to shake exes and part of the problem was my big ego being stroked by their desperation. I grew out of this and want a similarly developed adult. The real answer really lies in if I asked and he said "no" he hasn't spoken to her or that when the situation occurred and she rang him up, he didn't participate. Part of that is because he agreed to that so I would be in an exclusive relationship with him Now he is accountable. It would be a lack of character to insist I be exclusive and hide this and agree to terms you had 0 intention of acknowledging. Again, more a character thing. I'd rather a man who said "I can't do that, I'm staying friends with her" and give me the freedom to date other men. Or one who keeps his word. Those things are very important to me.

Regarding creating problems. That is my real concern. I don't want to check up on an adult man. I'm not sure how to just ask, so I don't. I also know there is quite the possibility he wouldn't mention w/o it being asked. sigh.

Edited April 27, 2012 by PrettyPoppy
lack of clarity.

[threebyfate]

I've had hard to shake exes and part of the problem was my big ego being stroked by their desperation. I grew out of this and want a similarly developed adult. The real answer really lies in if I asked and he said "no" he hasn't spoken to her or that when the situation occurred and she rang him up, he didn't participate. Part of that is because he agreed to that so I would be in an exclusive relationship with him Now he is accountable. It would be a lack of character to insist I be exclusive and hide this and agree to terms you had 0 intention of acknowledging. Again, more a character thing. I'd rather a man who said "I can't do that, I'm staying friends with her" and give me the freedom to date other men.

Before you go too much further, make sure you're not projecting your own personal past issues onto him. The two of you are different people.

 

Beyond that, from reading your posts, you believe in playing hardball. It's ultimatum after ultimatum, positioned in a way that's to your advantage. "Do what I say or you'll lose me".

 

This isn't to say that I disagree with where you're coming from. But if you really want to keep this relationship alive for the long-term, you're going to need to actually listen and understand what he's saying, incorporating his thoughts and feelings into a joint solution.

 

But if you continue throwing down ultimatums every time, unilaterally making decisions about the relationship based on what's best for you and only you, expect that he's going to walk away when he's had enough.

[PrettyPoppy]

How is "I want to be free to casually date you and others if you are all tied up with ex" an ultimatum? An ultimatum is "get rid of her or else we're done" not "if you keep her we can hookup and be casual" For criminies, he'd keep the sex until someone better (with no crazy ex) came along.

He opted to end the connection with the ex to have a monogamous relationship with me. I feel he is obligated to fulfill what he agreed upon (and chose)

So I'm not understanding ultimatum after ultimatum?

Edited April 27, 2012 by PrettyPoppy