The truth about d-day

[woinlove]

I agree. Change is a process. For some WS this process starts when them discover, upon meeting someone more suitable for them, and having a relationship with them, that they are in fact, not satisfied with their lives and wish to make changes.These changes, that involve kids, finances, property, and affection towards their BS, are not something that can be implemented overnight.

 

More often than not, D-Day is unplanned by the WS, so coming clean with their BS, right then and there, is sometimes untimely or inconvenient, for whatever reasons. So then a plan, that was decided upon between the WS and their AP, is executed, to allow the process of change by the WS, to proceed as planned.

 

The change that is needed is an internal change, not a change in finances, property, custody, etc. And only the person can change themselves, so it is not like the BS or the AP can help plan the change of the MM/MW. Also, to say that one is going to become an honest, open and loyal person a year from now means absolutely nothing. It is not a statement. From the point that a person commits to and starts to behave better, treat others better, there is essentially always setbacks, where they disappoint themselves, but recommit with determination if they are set on internal change. To say one will become honest a year from now means one hasn't really started on the path to honesty yet.

[Owl]

What do you mean when you say both? Both the OP and the spouse?

 

I disagree with that statement as that is not always the case. Some times it is kids an finances that hold them there as well as just fear.

 

So it isn't always a comparison or a choosing of anyone other than themselves.

 

I do mean both the AP and the spouse.

 

I can agree that it's not always 'the spouse' that is their reason for staying...but...typically even when they "stay for the kids"...they're staying WITH their spouse. And said spouse will nearly always refuse to "share" the WS with someone else.

 

So the end result is still that the WS has to choose which of the two they'll keep in their lives...whether or not they want to make that choice.

[jwi71]

No. The course of action I'm referring to is what is agreed upon between the WS and the OP in the event of a D-Day.

 

There are certain things that are "expected" as the events unfold when D-Day happens. The BS directed NC call/email/text, the minimizing, the re-writing of histories, etc... you know - all that is par for the course.

 

Most WS and AP, in LTA, have a plan in place as to how AP is to interpret the WS responses or actions taken on or following D-Day. It has nothing to do with WS filing or not filing for divorce. This is a plan pertaining only to D-Day and it's aftermath.

 

Ah. I see what you are saying (I can be dense at times).

 

I am a big fan of plans (it's typically indicative of a goal. What use is a plan if one doesn't have a goal?).

 

In the event of D-day, the plan is for the WS to, well, what? Abide by the terms as laid out by the BS. Well, why? Why not simply file for D?

 

If you are planning for D-day why does one not then plan to D? Why wait to D-day to start the process to leave (not filing for D, the pre-D process of deciding it's ok to to file). Why can't you do that "pre-D process" now? That, to me, seems like a better use of this planning time.

 

To me, it seems like wasted time. The APs are planning how to handle D-day instead of deciding to leave the M via D When D-day occurs (or if it does really), this plan is put into place.

 

It simply sounds like, the MM is NOT planning on leaving. Rather, is planning on how to navigate any D-day and then resume the A. If that's not the case, I would be expecting those plans and calculations to file for D to be happening NOW (and not planning for D-day and the A's resumption).

 

You are right. It's not easy to leave a M. I would expect those discussions to be front and center in a LTA. Not plans on how to continue the LTA after d-day.

 

In any A, especially a LTA, where the MM had no significant "progress in the pre-D process", I would say the plan is to maintain the status quo.

 

Sigh. Typing and reading on my phone ain't easy. I hope that was coherent.

[thomasb]

The next cruise I take my wife on, I will look around for this miserable couple who are 'staying for the children". Everyone keeps talking about them. I just haven't met them.

[jwi71]

Correct...this isn't an "action" that indicates where the WS's heart lies, nor where his loyalties are.

 

It just indicates that he plans on continuing the deception and lying to keep the affair going.

 

Disagree.

 

His plan does show where his loyalties lie.

[Owl]

Is there a specific timeline, carved in stone, that dictates when and where a WS should come clean, or implement changes? This is a very personal matter, influenced by many varied and personal circumstances. Why should someone reveal their plans on D-Day, and not another day, when its more suitable for THEM?

 

Because another person's entire life is dependent upon those plans being made behind their back, without their awareness or agreement.

 

Why SHOULDN'T all three parties impacted by these choices have input and their own decision making power in the outcome of this situation?

 

It's not just the WS and AP that are impacted by the outcome of these choices...so why should they be the only ones aware of the need to make these choices, or the information that's pertinent in them?

 

Simply enough why to me.

 

Now...realistically, I don't honestly believe that the parties of an affair are going to include the BS in their plans to betray, decieve, and devestate them. Not at all...that would be silly.

 

But...given all that we've seen here on LS...it's pretty ridiculous to believe that what happens on d-day is exactly what the WS told you as well. We've seen it soooo many times here how d-day didn't go the way that the AP was told.

 

Yet here we are.

 

There is no argument that having a relationship with another man/woman, without the consent of the BS, is deceptive. Of course it is. But each person makes their own decisions as to the way they want to live their lives. Some WS never wants to change and be honorable by leaving the BS or the AP. They are happy continuing the deception for as long as they can. So they appease the BS by going through the motion of D-Day, and go back to their AP as soon as the dust settles. The AP then have the choice of taking the WS back or not.

 

But some WS do want to change and become honorable by leaving their spouses to be with their AP and lead a life that is true and honest for themselves. These people chose their own timing and circumstances as to when to notify their BS of their plans. Some do it on D-Day, some don't. It's their prerogative to pick the right time and place according to their agenda.

 

And...from all that I've seen at least...MOST WS's don't want anything more than affair. They want BOTH...AP and BS. They get what they want from BOTH relationships, and will tell whatever lies are required to either party to maintain that situation for as long as they possibly can.

 

Honor, agenda...nothing to do with it.

[Owl]

Disagree.

 

His plan does show where his loyalties lie.

 

Only if he truly intends to execute the plan.

 

Or does he simply tell whomever he's speaking to what the plan should look like to appease that person to maintain that affair and status quo for as long as he can?

 

THAT is nearly always "the plan".

[jwi71]

Until such time, when the WS redeems appropriate to act otherwise, be it leave their BS or their AP.

 

I like this.

I think it succinctly sums it up nicely.

The WS decides whom he wants. Currently, it's both.

Maybe it's different tomorrow.

Maybe he even chooses (and not the BS or AP doing so for him).

Otherwise, it's a waiting game to see who he picks.

 

That's gotta take a toll on the AP......

[jwi71]

Only if he truly intends to execute the plan.

 

Or does he simply tell whomever he's speaking to what the plan should look like to appease that person to maintain that affair and status quo for as long as he can?

 

THAT is nearly always "the plan".

 

Yup.

His plan is to choose himself and the A for as long as possible, why change the status quo when it works oh so we'll for him?

 

Actually, I shouldn't say that. I'm sure it takes a toll on the WS. But it's insufficient to compel a decision - enough good at home and good with AP to outweigh the bad.

 

(In any case, the plan to mitigate D-day obviously implies the WS isn't filing before D-day)

[donnamaybe]

What difference does it make if the wife kicked him out or he chose to leave himself? The reasons he is staying have likely more to do with other things than love so they are not relevant to the OW anyway.

 

There would be a huge difference, for me anyway. My man comes to me of his own volition - not because he had nowhere else to go.

[donnamaybe]

Only if he truly intends to execute the plan.

 

Or does he simply tell whomever he's speaking to what the plan should look like to appease that person to maintain that affair and status quo for as long as he can?

 

THAT is nearly always "the plan".

 

Indeed. Thing is, a WS will map out a whole 'nother "plan" to appease the AP and keep 'em dangling on that string. Sadly, it so often works, and only one benefits

[Danie]

The truth about dday is that each is unique to the individuals and the situation. Could be that the WS wants both and lies thru their teeth to both AP and BS in an effort to keep both. Could be that the WS wants the marriage and does the work to keep the marriage. Could be that the WS wants the AP and does the work to end the marriage.

 

For me…it took him one day to end it with her and recommit to me. Why? Because he wanted to. I never told him how to end it with her except to be respectful…he wasn’t and simple went NC with her. I didn’t tell him to do that. I’d image that she thinks I held a gun to his head and forced him to behave that way with her…but in truth I don’t really care what she thinks of me.

 

I’d think that most BS reactions to dday are fairly typical. Just like the WS reactions and the AP reactions.

[donnamaybe]

Is there a specific timeline, carved in stone, that dictates when and where a WS should come clean, or implement changes? This is a very personal matter, influenced by many varied and personal circumstances. Why should someone reveal their plans on D-Day, and not another day, when its more suitable for THEM?

 

This "perfect" time is, coincidentally, ALWAYS dependent on the whims of the WS. I have yet to read or hear of a situation where the AP has to hold the WS back from leaving their spouse. So, really, the question is how long is an AP willing to be the supporting actor when they would prefer the lead role? Some continue to wait long enough that it becomes pretty clear that nothing will change - ever.

[pureinheart]

The next cruise I take my wife on, I will look around for this miserable couple who are 'staying for the children". Everyone keeps talking about them. I just haven't met them.

 

Don't kid yourself, they are out there...many more than you think.

[pureinheart]

It would also be very interesting as to how many D-Days happen accidently on purpose simply because either the affair or homelife is way too intolerable.

 

For the record, 3% is not an accurate figure, especially for my area. I would say, based on only the people I worked with, a conservative figure would be well over 50%, and for the well over 50% the majority of those couples remain together to this day.

[Radagast]

This "perfect" time is, coincidentally, ALWAYS dependent on the whims of the WS. I have yet to read or hear of a situation where the AP has to hold the WS back from leaving their spouse. So, really, the question is how long is an AP willing to be the supporting actor when they would prefer the lead role? Some continue to wait long enough that it becomes pretty clear that nothing will change - ever.

 

Interesting notion. I can only speak from my own experience. I left my ex-wife more than six months before my partner was ready to join me. She would certainly never have held me back, she is not bossy or domineering like that and would never have told me what to do but it was clear that my timetable was a lot quicker than her timetable and I was in a greater hurry to be together than she was.

 

As for "how long before it becomes clear nothing will change" I think only the people inside the relationship can tell if progress is being made. Some progress may seem glacial to an outsider but insiders might see how dramatic it is because they recognise the true significance of some of the psychological shifts that have to take place. It seems odd that people here often speak about how many years of work it takes for an unfaithful spouse to overcome the issues that lead them to be unfaithful yet when it comes to recognising that that length of time is required for the unfaithful spouse to overcome the issues which keep them trapped in an unhappy marriage so that they can leave the marriage and self-actualise then they refuse to see that although those are usually the same issues and the same process at play. Speaking for myself I admit it took me a long time and a good deal of counselling to work through my issues which allowed me to recognise the problems in my marriage and why I was staying and to be able to overcome those and overcome those issues in myself I needed to address. Yes it took me a lot longer than I would have liked but the bonus is my wife gets a better-than-new husband she can love, trust, respect and enjoy instead of the damaged goods she'd have gotten had I escaped before I had completed the work on myself I needed to do. It was hard work but she's more than worth it.

[donnamaybe]

I don't think it's ridiculous to at least begin to wonder at, say, year 8 or so whether a WS is just using their AP or not. I mean, any thinking person might at least question it at SOME point. Or is the timeframe an even decade? 20 years? Never? How convenient that would be for a WS.

[trinity1]

Or...now that it's done, the clarity comes in.

 

I think it all depends on which side of "done" you're on.

 

I think it's more about personality types. Some people, once the relationship is over, simply rewrite history. My sister is like that. She detests her ex-fiance, says she never ever loved him, while during their relationship she wanted the world to be in awe of what a wonderful man she had, the most wonderful man in the world.

 

Me, I'm more realistic, I see the good and bad parts during the relationship and after.

[donnamaybe]

And yet others, most especially unbeknownst to themselves, rewrite the R in real time. A D day in that situation would definitely bring clarity.

[bentnotbroken]

Don't kid yourself, they are out there...many more than you think.

 

 

But perhaps a lot fewer than you think, it's all an estimation game.

[woinlove]

It would also be very interesting as to how many D-Days happen accidently on purpose simply because either the affair or homelife is way too intolerable.

 

It seems that this would not be that uncommon, given that having a secret A often goes along with poor relationship skills (communication, resolving problems, making decisions, etc). Being purposely discovered would seem to another manifestation of those lacking skills. If they really lack these skills, they might not even be aware they are setting themselves up to be discovered. In that case, it would be difficult to know d-day happened accidentally on purpose, even for the people directly involved.

 

On another angle with d-days, I haven't seen it mentioned yet when d-day happens because one of the children discovers it. We have seen examples of that here, and it does not seem to be that uncommon either, although sometimes the child carries this secret for a long time. Any way you cut it, d-days are horrible events, and even worse when children are smack in the middle of it.

 

The best possible d-day I can imagine is when the WS is honest with all involved, but we don't seem to hear about that case very often. Even in successful Rs, it seems it often takes a while to switch from being so deceitful to being honest.

Edited May 1, 2012 by woinlove

[trinity1]

The best possible d-day I can imagine is when the WS is honest with all involved, but we don't seem to hear about that case very often. Even in successful Rs, it seems it often takes a while to switch from being so deceitful to being honest.

 

Then we have the serial cheater who confesses with honesty each affair, but still continues to have them sex addict as he is.

[woinlove]

Then we have the serial cheater who confesses with honesty each affair, but still continues to have them sex addict as he is.

 

Sounds dreadful, but if he confesses each time and continues on, it would seem the two spouses are deciding to live like that for whatever reason. Or maybe it is agony for one or both of them but they will take more pain before ending the M. I would think about a few rounds of this, the BS knows what they are dealing with and what choices they make then is up to them.

[redcurls]

Sounds dreadful, but if he confesses each time and continues on, it would seem the two spouses are deciding to live like that for whatever reason. Or maybe it is agony for one or both of them but they will take more pain before ending the M. I would think about a few rounds of this, the BS knows what they are dealing with and what choices they make then is up to them.

 

 

 

Much like the choice is up to the OW/OM who decides to wait for the WS.

[Stellar Wench]

Don't kid yourself, they are out there...many more than you think.

Couples staying for the kids do not go on cruises together.