The truth about d-day

[beenburned]

We read here about d-day a lot. My question to the OW/FOW is:

 

You were not personally there, so the info you receive about d-day is only through the MM. How do you know he is not totally lying about what happened?

 

For the MM that said they left or filed for divorce, how do you know if it wasn't really the wife that kicked him out and filed for divorce?

 

We know for a fact the majority of divorces in the US are filed by the wife.

[MissBee]

I'm not sure if I know what the question is: is the question about how can you believe someone's story if you weren't there or is it specifically about MM lying about divorcing? Please clarify.

 

I'll take a stab at it though: I didn't have a dday but I have suspicions about what happened when we stopped speaking...he says something different than what I think happened when he returned a year later, but I can't tell for certain as I was not there. But my intuition trumps what he says frankly, so while he says one thing, it doesn't feel very true to me.

 

The short answer is: technically no one on earth can know anything for sure unless you are an eyewitness to it, yet we live in a world where through human limitations, we cannot be an eyewitness to everything that happens that relates to our lives. So most times we have to use our intuition and reasoning, observe the story and other outside evidence to see if what someone is saying makes sense/seems true.

[wannabdone]

I now assume that every single word out of my xMM's mouth was a lie.

[beenburned]

Bee,

 

Yes, how can you believe MM's story about d-day since you were not there.

Especially when you know how much he lied to his wife while cheating.

 

Example: When my D had her first d-day and kicked her H out, he went to stay at the OW's house and told her he had left his wife to be with her.

 

She believed he left my D because of his love for her.

Until she caught him cheating with another OW!

 

Then both OW called my D to try and get the truth! My D was honest with them, she had kicked him out and filed for the divorce on d-day.

[beenburned]

LadyGrey,

 

That is exactly what I meant!

 

Until both of the OW learned the truth about how bad he had lied to them,

their "affair story" was about love and soulmates.

[wannabdone]

Yes, I get your point.

 

If what I posted wasn't the truth, I certainly wouldn't tell it cause it sure isn't very flattering to me is it.

 

It brings up something that I've always thought was interesting about d day. There is another site that the mantra is, don't worry about him throwing you under the bus, it's to be expected, don't worry that he told her that you were the crazy stalking ow, don't worry that he told her it was just sex. It's OK honey, it's just normal to be expected stuff, (throwing you under the bus with extra lies thrown in). I just shake my head when I read responses like that, how can anyone rationalize being treated like that, and how can one say it's normal and to be expected. If anything, being thrown under like that ought to give an ow a huge wake up call that it/he ain't what you thought it was.

 

To me......if there could be a good d day, (I know there really isn't such a thing.) The real truth is told by all parties and a decision is made within a few days as to which direction the BS and WS is going in. The OW has a decision to make also but the decision about the marriage is the BS's and WS's alone.

 

 

But, when you want so desperately to believe that someone loves you, its amazing what you will buy.

 

I was thrown under the bus more times than I can count. And YES added lies put in... he of course just used it as showing me how incredibly manipulative she was, and how she was "so good" at this. Because of course he NEVER said such things. And like a dumb ass I believed him, I wanted to believe him, I could never think I could love someone so toxic.

[beenburned]

LadyGrey,

 

That must be the site that likes to blow sunshine and rainbows up everyone's a**!:lmao:

[MissBee]

Yes, I get your point.

 

If what I posted wasn't the truth, I certainly wouldn't tell it cause it sure isn't very flattering to me is it.

 

It brings up something that I've always thought was interesting about d day. There is another site that the mantra is, don't worry about him throwing you under the bus, it's to be expected, don't worry that he told her that you were the crazy stalking ow, don't worry that he told her it was just sex. It's OK honey, it's just normal to be expected stuff, (throwing you under the bus with extra lies thrown in). I just shake my head when I read responses like that, how can anyone rationalize being treated like that, and how can one say it's normal and to be expected. If anything, being thrown under like that ought to give an ow a huge wake up call that it/he ain't what you thought it was.

 

To me......if there could be a good d day, (I know there really isn't such a thing.) The real truth is told by all parties and a decision is made within a few days as to which direction the BS and WS is going in. The OW has a decision to make also but the decision about the marriage is the BS's and WS's alone.

 

I guess the only way a dday can be "good" is if it is not an accident. I think it is often "bad" because it is found out and people go into a panic and react. Most ddays don't seem to be the MP deciding to end the affair, tell their AP this and then confess to their spouse. Perhaps in those cases it can be more civil. Feelings will still be hurt and a BS or OW may fly off the handle , the former at the betrayal and the latter at the heartbreak; but, it would be less of a mad panic of throwing under the bus.

 

I also find that in such a dday as the OW, after my heart healed I'd respect the MM more than if he was accidentally discovered and threw me under the bus to save himself. Also as a BS I'd feel like my husband realized for himself his mistakes and was genuine about reconciling, since he told on himself and it wasn't because I forced his hand, investigated, the OW told me etc. so now he is backed into a corner. As I'd wonder had I not found out or was told, how much longer would he continue? Is he truly done and aware of his actions or simply curtailed against his will?

[beenburned]

wannabdone,

 

That is also very true of BS's!

 

These cheaters are very good con artist, especially when the women(W & OW) are so trusting and naive!

 

You and lots of others here have come a long way!

[wannabdone]

wannabdone,

 

That is also very true of BS's!

 

These cheaters are very good con artist, especially when the women(W & OW) are so trusting and naive!

 

You and lots of others here have come a long way!

 

Ah, thanks BB. I appreciate that.

 

And yes, I know that its true to both sides. There is a very special place in hell for these WS.

 

I have said it before.... My xMM killed the trusting and naive woman I was. She is dead.

[beenburned]

Bee,

 

Great post!

 

You have brought up many angles for deep thought!

 

As I have read on different boards for years, the MM who confess willingly are few and far between. But it has happened!

 

The scenario painted for a good d-day would benefit all parties involved, as there would be no more secrets!

[wannabdone]

I get it wannabdone, I really do. We discover so much in hindsight and I often times look back now and see things in a whole different light. Rationally I knew everything he was telling me didn't make sense and his separation (cough, cough) seemed off the charts abnormal, but I wanted to believe, so I believed. Yes he twisted things, and lied but ultimately on many levels, I was a fool. That line where you realize it......is different for each of us and I guess we are fortunate in that we realized it and we have grown beyond it. Here's to ya girlie!

 

LOL.... well some of us take a little longer to learn than others. Ah, the stubborn Irish.... sometimes its gets us in a mess. I was bound and determined to believe him.

 

Funny how, we can be the biggest of liars... to ourselves.

[Spark1111]

OMG! There was so much lying and damage control happening after DDAY that it was almost ludicrously funny, had it not been so painful...

 

I intercepted texts where she was so concerned about the unwavering hostility he was meeting in our reconciliation that I almost vomited.

 

What reconciliation???????

 

Because I allowed him to spend a weekend on the couch while I was out of town was hardly reconciliation. He needed time to find a place to live and I just wanted him gone....

 

I told him he had carte blanche to be with his soulmate; that she was probably a nice person who got caught up in his bs; that I wouldn't contest any divorce and we could amicably split the sale of the home.

 

Doubt he told her that.

 

He was depressed, and a real sympathy junkie. I gave him none; she gave it to him in spades.

 

Meanwhile, in my super-sleuth mode, I discover flirty emails to old gfs while still in the affair! He was trawling the waters for her replacement, I guess.

Doubt she knew anything about that either.

 

But I was the mean, vicious, money-grubbing, frigid, never loved him wife!

 

Oh, and PS: I told my children to treat her with respect. I told them that no matter what happened to our marriage, that was still their father and if that is who he chose to spend his life with, I expected them to treat her kindly.

 

Oh yeah, that Spark is some b##ch!

 

I applaud any of you who sought the truth after DDAY! I never got that opportunity as she never returned my calls, all four of them, months later.

 

When I finally had to speak with her, one of the most amazing things to me is that she did not pose one, not one question, to me. I really could have enlightened her to many things that occurred during the affair.

 

And she still hates me, bigtime. Go figure.

[wannabdone]

OMG! There was so much lying and damage control happening after DDAY that it was almost ludicrously funny, had it not been so painful...

 

I intercepted texts where she was so concerned about the unwavering hostility he was meeting in our reconciliation that I almost vomited.

 

What reconciliation???????

 

Because I allowed him to spend a weekend on the couch while I was out of town was hardly reconciliation. He needed time to find a place to live and I just wanted him gone....

 

I told him he had carte blanche to be with his soulmate; that she was probably a nice person who got caught up in his bs; that I wouldn't contest any divorce and we could amicably split the sale of the home.

 

Doubt he told her that.

 

He was depressed, and a real sympathy junkie. I gave him none; she gave it to him in spades.

 

Meanwhile, in my super-sleuth mode, I discover flirty emails to old gfs while still in the affair! He was trawling the waters for her replacement, I guess.

Doubt she knew anything about that either.

 

But I was the mean, vicious, money-grubbing, frigid, never loved him wife!

 

Oh, and PS: I told my children to treat her with respect. I told them that no matter what happened to our marriage, that was still their father and if that is who he chose to spend his life with, I expected them to treat her kindly.

 

Oh yeah, that Spark is some b##ch!

 

I applaud any of you who sought the truth after DDAY! I never got that opportunity as she never returned my calls, all four of them, months later.

 

When I finally had to speak with her, one of the most amazing things to me is that she did not pose one, not one question, to me. I really could have enlightened her to many things that occurred during the affair.

 

And she still hates me, bigtime. Go figure.

 

 

You are on KICK ASS LADY!

[Gentlegirl2]

I have heard a watered down version from xMM but how knows?

 

Never will. Nothing has changed in his life, so as he said, he got away with it.. no confessing went on there.

 

I don't believe anything he said anyway,

 

GG

[skylarblue]

I believe what xMM has told me about dday. Everything he explained is typical of his personality/reaction. Everything relayed about BS sounds sensible. I’ve heard post dday conversations that would support some things. Basically, everything seems so “logical” and believable. xMM has never been hesitant or shy about relaying their private conversations to me.

 

I think xMM’s dday was kinda out of the “norm” because he would never admit to the A. He admits that he was in his car with someone. He admits that things came close to, but maintains that nothing happened. Dday was basically her accusing and questioning him and him lying and denying. Subsequent days (even still) have been the same with the addition of snide comments from her and blame-shifting and gaslighting from him. I’m sure he’s said he loves her and such, but the dday I expected was none of the sorts.

 

There are a few things that surprised me. I don’t understand how/why she didn’t confront us. She said it was because “she was in shock by what she was seeing”, but I don’t think I could’ve had that kind of restraint (I am grateful though). I don’t understand how/why she let xMM get away with it. No ultimatums, no demand for the truth. By his own admission, he got off fairly easy. The way he spoke before dday seemed like a D would be imminent if A was discovered. I didn’t expect her to be so passive and “weak”. I don’t understand how/why she didn't monitor him or demand transparency.

[beenburned]

sky,

 

Usually when a wife gets suspicious and the H keeps denying, she starts looking for evidence.

 

If evidence is found, sometimes she keeps quiet while gathering more info, until he hangs himself with something he can't talk his way out of.

 

Then she uses all the evidence to file for divorce.

[wannabdone]

You are on KICK ASS LADY!

 

 

Sorry.... that was supposed to be "a" not "on"..... damn auto correct. Sounds like I was challenging her to a duo. bahahahahahaha.

[Summer Breeze]

After each dday I let her know I was happy to answer questions if she had any. We spoke each time. She verified loads to me and I answered her questions honestly. There were times she didn't believe him and she'd call me in the middle of their arguments and I'd tell her the truth. I heard things from the both of them and separately. There has never been a point when I even distantly considered he lied to me.

[beenburned]

SB,

 

I applaude your honesty during the situation!

 

Only when all parties have the whole truth, can they make informed decisions about their future.

[Spark1111]

SB,

 

I applaude your honesty during the situation!

 

Only when all parties have the whole truth, can they make informed decisions about their future.

 

Or can they be forced to re-write their past when the fantasy of their soulmate doesn't match the reality of the situation.

 

Some people cannot handle the truth.

[Got it]

We read here about d-day a lot. My question to the OW/FOW is:

 

You were not personally there, so the info you receive about d-day is only through the MM. How do you know he is not totally lying about what happened?

 

I can't speak for others but I know based on what he said, what I received from her, and through other accounts.

 

For the MM that said they left or filed for divorce, how do you know if it wasn't really the wife that kicked him out and filed for divorce?

 

Asking for a separation and filing for divorce are two separate things. I do know that he agreed to leave when he would not reconcile. I do know that she filed for divorce but that was not unexpected information as he and I discussed it. It had little to do with him not wanting to divorce. There are other factors that do come into play.

 

We know for a fact the majority of divorces in the US are filed by the wife.

 

Even in divorces that are not involving infidelity there are so many factors at play outside of who left, who prompted the asking of the separation and who filed.

 

For myself, being divorced outside of the separation wasn't a major factor. It had little to do with emotional romantic ties to my ex and more to do with the last final details. A divorce was not germaine to my life at that point. For my ex when he decided that he was in another serious relationship an was thinking of marriage is when he filed.

[NoIDidn't]

I believe what xMM has told me about dday. Everything he explained is typical of his personality/reaction. Everything relayed about BS sounds sensible. I’ve heard post dday conversations that would support some things. Basically, everything seems so “logical” and believable. xMM has never been hesitant or shy about relaying their private conversations to me.

 

I think xMM’s dday was kinda out of the “norm” because he would never admit to the A. He admits that he was in his car with someone. He admits that things came close to, but maintains that nothing happened. Dday was basically her accusing and questioning him and him lying and denying. Subsequent days (even still) have been the same with the addition of snide comments from her and blame-shifting and gaslighting from him. I’m sure he’s said he loves her and such, but the dday I expected was none of the sorts.

 

There are a few things that surprised me. I don’t understand how/why she didn’t confront us. She said it was because “she was in shock by what she was seeing”, but I don’t think I could’ve had that kind of restraint (I am grateful though). I don’t understand how/why she let xMM get away with it. No ultimatums, no demand for the truth. By his own admission, he got off fairly easy. The way he spoke before dday seemed like a D would be imminent if A was discovered. I didn’t expect her to be so passive and “weak”. I don’t understand how/why she didn't monitor him or demand transparency.

 

Your MM sounds like a classic narcissist. I dated one of these before. Of course he was cavalier about their private conversations....because he was likely lying and knew it wouldn't be challenged.

 

She could've demanded anything she wanted. A narcissist isn't likely to give it to her or care about her feelings when she doesn't get it.

 

Sounds really typical to me.

[pureinheart]

We read here about d-day a lot. My question to the OW/FOW is:

 

You were not personally there, so the info you receive about d-day is only through the MM. How do you know he is not totally lying about what happened?

 

For the MM that said they left or filed for divorce, how do you know if it wasn't really the wife that kicked him out and filed for divorce?

 

We know for a fact the majority of divorces in the US are filed by the wife.

 

Having been a BS and OW, in either case it didn't matter to me who may have lied to who because my life didn't hinge on anyone telling me the truth. People lie all of the time for various reasons, and since I can usually find out any truth I need to know, I really don't care.

 

I thought I had been lied to by DM, but found out later he didn't. He didn't love her anymore, although feared what a divorce would do to him financially, and he feared his ex would turn his kids and grandkids against him.

 

When put to the test, he stood his ground and she moved out, she filed for divorce. Kudos to both of them for sticking with the divorce and ending an extremely destructive/toxic marriage. Was I there - no, I didn't have to be, it was obvious. Sometimes the obvious is just that....

[woinlove]

We read here about d-day a lot. My question to the OW/FOW is:

 

You were not personally there, so the info you receive about d-day is only through the MM. How do you know he is not totally lying about what happened?

 

For the MM that said they left or filed for divorce, how do you know if it wasn't really the wife that kicked him out and filed for divorce?

 

We know for a fact the majority of divorces in the US are filed by the wife.

 

I think there is likely a difference between a MM who confesses and tells his W and family the truth and one who is discovered. In the latter case, even after discovery, he may deny and lie a lot. The one who confesses all has chosen a path of honesty and I would think would be more likely to be honest with all involved, including the OW. On LS, we see fewer examples of MM/MW coming clean of their own choice. I suppose one has to get out of the affair-mindset, switch from deception to honesty, and that suggests some kind of change in the person - perhaps the inner conflict that deception typically brings just gets to be too much for someone with a more limited capacity for lying and deception.