It feels impossible

[DuchessKaye]

I need to restock my liquor cabinet.

 

I would love that

[ThaWholigan]

Does your refusal to have male friends stem from a feeling of inadequacy when in the company of men...?

I was going to ask why he doesn't want male friends aswell. Or if he wants any friends, because lack of friends will hurt his ability to attract a woman into his life.

 

However, the female attention he is getting in this thread caused me to hush, so I will now

[USMCHokie]

I was going to ask why he doesn't want male friends aswell. Or if he wants any friends, because lack of friends will hurt his ability to attract a woman into his life.

 

However, the female attention he is getting in this thread caused me to hush, so I will now

 

Yea, it's a serious question and not meant as a slight against him. He is definitely missing out by not having bros, but I can understand if bros would cause him to feel animosity towards other men and feel even more bitter and insecure about himself.

[ThaWholigan]

Yea, it's a serious question and not meant as a slight against him. He is definitely missing out by not having bros, but I can understand if bros would cause him to feel animosity towards other men and feel even more bitter and insecure about himself.

That's just dumb though. I have many male friends, much more than I do female friends, and I feel they help me feel more confident and helps me relate to people a lot more on many dimensions. And in all honesty, women aren't all that different from men. They are very alike in many ways, so as a result of all the bonds I've formed, I now don't have a problem understanding girls "beyond superficial levels".

 

Relating to people in general is important, and friendship helps.

[zengirl]

That's just dumb though. I have many male friends, much more than I do female friends, and I feel they help me feel more confident and helps me relate to people a lot more on many dimensions. And in all honesty, women aren't all that different from men. They are very alike in many ways, so as a result of all the bonds I've formed, I now don't have a problem understanding girls "beyond superficial levels".

 

Relating to people in general is important, and friendship helps.

 

Right, relating to people is not really a gender specific skill. I understand that romance is different from friendship and may require some specific social cues, etc, but if the difficulty is in understanding people "beyond superficial levels," friendship is a MUCH better way to go about learning how to do it than through romantic relationships.

 

I also wonder why SD thinks there's some 'magic level' in romantic entanglement where you know everything about the person. I mean, that's kind of what intimacy is, but it's not like you just 'reach it' someday. You have to know how to build it, and that comes way AFTER knowing how people work, etc.

[jobaba]

He has listed gaming, anime, and dance.

 

The first two should make getting male friends not much of a problem at all.

 

Back in the day, I would have said he needs some 'cooler' interests to socialize more properly.

 

When I was in college and in my early 20s, gaming was really for serious nerds or a closet activity for 'normal' people. Anime was almost exclusively territory for Asians.

 

But I realize the world has changed a lot.

 

A lot of men and even women seem to be into those things now and it's even considered pretty cool.

[somedude81]

Does your refusal to have male friends stem from a feeling of inadequacy when in the company of men...?

I don't refuse to have male friends. But as I said earlier, I'm not going to pursue guys. Meaning, I'm not going to invite a guy to hang out with me like I would a girl.

[ThaWholigan]

I don't refuse to have male friends. But as I said earlier, I'm not going to pursue guys. Meaning, I'm not going to invite a guy to hang out with me like I would a girl.

That's still weird. So you will only ask to hang out with girls? Girls whom you may be attracted to I presume? And that is all?

 

This kinda explains a few things......

[Teknoe]

I don't have any guy friends because I don't want to have any guy friends. It's not something I'm going to pursue. Sure if I find a guy(s) who invites me to do something with him/them I'll do it but I'm not going to chase guys.

 

Frankly, I've never gotten anything out of having guy friends

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the last time you had a consistent group of male friends was junior college, right? What were you, 19, 20 years old at the time?

 

A lot changes in 1 year, let alone 10. Just because you never got anything out of having guy friends before doesn't automatically mean you won't ever get anything out of having guy friends TODAY.

 

And again, it comes back to the vibes people get off your posts. You may not be aware of this but saying "I'm not interested in guy friends because I can't get anything out of it" is not only inaccurate (i.e. developing and sharpening your social cues and skills, etc.) but it does paint a less-than-positive picture about you and your values (or lack thereof).

 

You say you're fine with female friends but not so much male friends. As ThaWholigan said, that does say a lot about you. Just be aware that when you say things like that, they do lead to people going "Huh" and "Hmm" in their own minds when thinking about SD81. It's how your reputation is formed here on LS. It's not by accident or mistake, but based on your attitudes, perspectives, beliefs and such...

 

The same way most people get good at something, by continuing to do it.

 

Going by this logic, you're cutting yourself short of benefits by NOT having guy friends. You quit having guy friends in junior college. How are you going to get better if you don't continue to do it?

 

Your logic, I'm sorry to say, is a bit flawed and I hope you can see that it is

 

And I already met the girl of my dreams. We were "close" for almost two years, but God decided it wasn't meant to be. He is such a tease.

 

It's not God's fault your situation with D didn't work out like you wanted it to. Have you ever thought about not blaming things on God or other forces, but rather looking honestly in the mirror?

 

 

I vaguely remember those posts. But I don't remember the context at all. Frankly, I don't think they are accurate at all.

 

I think this speaks volumes

 

 

She absolutely crushed my heart and refused to ever see or speak to me again for reasons I have no idea why.

 

I have so much anger abut her it's crazy. So many intense feelings.

 

You have no idea why she cut you off?

After all the posts you made about her, her reactions and such, you have no idea why? Again, this speaks volumes

 

 

Yeah I don't always understand what people mean. So what?

 

It's better that I'm asking questions and trying to understand.

 

The problem isn't that you don't understand certain things at certain times. The problem lies in the fact that when people explain, you shut them out and try to defend yourself when it's clear to most other people that there are clearly some issues you're avoiding and that your view of reality is, how can I say this, a bit distorted. i.e. knowing when a comment is offensive and knowing when not to say something as with D and the cleavage comment at the kiosk

 

You talk a good talk.

But your walking needs improvement.

 

You claim you are trying to understand, but only on YOUR TERMS. You spend half your time complaining, and the other half defending yourself. You never open yourself up and drop your pride at the door. There's a lot of tunnel vision with you, my friend. It pains us to see you, with the right support system around you, could start taking steps toward living a healthier life TODAY but instead you're filled with excuse after excuse.

 

Few things are as valuable as having a "teachable spirit." That's why I've told you so many times in the past pride is a killer. Unfortunately, you have a lot of pride, and you are isolated.

 

Pride + Isolation + Stubborn + Tunnel Vision + Lack of Empathy = not good news

 

We all have flaws, but we need to be aware of them and admit them. Only then can we properly address them and turn weaknesses into strengths.

[zengirl]

I don't refuse to have male friends. But as I said earlier, I'm not going to pursue guys. Meaning, I'm not going to invite a guy to hang out with me like I would a girl.

 

The fact that you cannot draw the distinction between pursuing someone (romance) and making a friend and asking them to hang out is very telling in a lot of ways, SD.

 

I would never suggest you "pursue guys." I've never heard of anyone as forming friendships and considering one party the pursuer, as is often done with dating. Friendships build mutually. This does mean that sometimes you have to invite people to do things, yes, but that alone is hardly a pursuit!

 

The whole way you dismiss friendship -- with men and basically with anyone since you view it as pursuing and I assume then only 'pursue' friendships with attractive, potential romantic interests (which are not friendships then!) -- makes it seem like you really just don't care about people as people and that makes it clear why you cannot understand women (or people) at a deeper level.

 

In short: it is all connected.

[Teknoe]

The fact that you cannot draw the distinction between pursuing someone (romance) and making a friend and asking them to hang out is very telling in a lot of ways, SD.

 

I would never suggest you "pursue guys." I've never heard of anyone as forming friendships and considering one party the pursuer, as is often done with dating. Friendships build mutually. This does mean that sometimes you have to invite people to do things, yes, but that alone is hardly a pursuit!

 

The whole way you dismiss friendship -- with men and basically with anyone since you view it as pursuing and I assume then only 'pursue' friendships with attractive, potential romantic interests (which are not friendships then!) -- makes it seem like you really just don't care about people as people and that makes it clear why you cannot understand women (or people) at a deeper level.

 

In short: it is all connected.

 

Yes. And the other thing is, saying "I don't refuse to have guy friends, but I'm not pursuing them either."

 

Well isn't that just convenient from the perspective of being safe and never having to do anything?

 

SD knows other guys aren't too likely to invite him

SD knows if he doesn't invite guys then he won't have to deal with them

 

And it's been this way the last what, 8 years of his life?

 

There's basically no risk. "Yeah I wouldn't mind having guy friends but will I go out of my way to make them? Nah."

 

He's basically coming up with reasons to justify being isolated and that it's somehow not entirely his fault. It's his way of rationalizing things. "I don't refuse having guy friends, but no guys invite me out! Therefore, it's not my fault I have no guys friends"

 

It's clear to most people SD81 has some issues he needs to work out. I just see a whole lot of unhealthiness there. The other thing is, he acts like we're mean to him and/or that there's nothing wrong with him.

 

I don't know what else to say. It really is sad when you think about the vicious self-fulfilling prophecy cycle he's caught HIMSELF up in. Again, I emphasize that it isn't God's fault, or girls, or other guys. It's all self-inflicted. It is very sad to witness and see him stuck in the same old ways year after year. You would think he'd learn by now but I see him repeating this vicious cycle for the forseeable future until he wakes up. Thinking about it makes me sad since I wish SD81 could experience victories in life. He can, but he refuses to put in the (hard) work to get there

 

 

edit: and no, by victories I don't necessarily mean getting in a romantic relationship, but that's a whole 'notha issue...

by victories I mean simply by reprogramming himself to see value and worth in himself

Edited April 26, 2012 by Teknoe

[somedude81]

That's still weird. So you will only ask to hang out with girls? Girls whom you may be attracted to I presume? And that is all?

 

This kinda explains a few things......

Yup, I'd only ask girls to hang out with me. More on that later.

It's not God's fault your situation with D didn't work out like you wanted it to. Have you ever thought about not blaming things on God or other forces, but rather looking honestly in the mirror?

It is 100% God's fault that she didn't want to date me. As far as I could tell, we were a perfect match. Granted I never got to know her intimately. But from what I've seen, everything else was great.

 

I have a rough idea why. But I have no clue whatsoever why she wasn't willing to talk to talk to me and actually tell me why. My guess is that she's just really immature and didn't have enough confidence to actually face me, and not that she had any reason at all to worry. Maybe she was afraid of hurting me directly?

You talk a good talk.

But your walking needs improvement.

If you think I'm here to impress you, you're badly mistaken.

The fact that you cannot draw the distinction between pursuing someone (romance) and making a friend and asking them to hang out is very telling in a lot of ways, SD.

 

I would never suggest you "pursue guys." I've never heard of anyone as forming friendships and considering one party the pursuer, as is often done with dating. Friendships build mutually. This does mean that sometimes you have to invite people to do things, yes, but that alone is hardly a pursuit!

Getting to know somebody, finding out what they like to do, and inviting them to do something, is exactly how I pursue women. If I have to do that with a guy to become his friend, then it's pursuing him. And I'm simply not going to put in that effort with a guy. Even then, I'm just one guy, and I wouldn't know what to do with another guy one-on-one.

 

 

The whole way you dismiss friendship -- with men and basically with anyone since you view it as pursuing and I assume then only 'pursue' friendships with attractive, potential romantic interests (which are not friendships then!) -- makes it seem like you really just don't care about people as people and that makes it clear why you cannot understand women (or people) at a deeper level.

Seriously Zengirl?

 

Me not caring about making guy friends = me not being able to understand women on a deeper level.

 

You're better than that.

[Mme. Chaucer]

It is 100% God's fault that she didn't want to date me. As far as I could tell, we were a perfect match. Granted I never got to know her intimately. But from what I've seen, everything else was great.

 

There are probably a few fat girls who feel just like that about you ...

[somedude81]

There are probably a few fat girls who feel just like that about you ...

Thanks for the laugh

[xxoo]

Getting to know somebody, finding out what they like to do, and inviting them to do something, is exactly how I pursue women. If I have to do that with a guy to become his friend, then it's pursuing him. And I'm simply not going to put in that effort with a guy. Even then, I'm just one guy, and I wouldn't know what to do with another guy one-on-one.

 

So for you "pursuing" looks exactly like "making friends".

 

Can you see why women are surprised when you suddenly ask them out?

 

And why wouldn't you put the effort of making friends into a guy? Humans are social creatures. We benefit from having friends. Don't you meet any guys who share your interest in video games, and would like to get together and drink some beer and play video games? I know guys who do exactly that on the weekends. I've heard them make the plans!

[kassy]

I don't understand why people spend so much time trying to help somedude.

 

He clearly believes he is fine and a relationship is all he needs and is willing to do nothing but complain and justify how he's normal and it's all gods and every girl on earths fault.

 

Unless he is willing to do more to get a life, he isn't going to get a girl. Girls don't want to be your everything. They also want you to have your own life too. That involves having friends. If he can't see any benefit in friends, and continues to be totally unaccountable for his own life nothing will change.

 

Everything that could help him has been said, kind offers to have friends meet him even rejected. It's all a waste of time on everyone else's behalf he likes his miserable little existance too much to change. Sad because he could do simple things to change it. But he clearly demonstrates he has no interest in anything except some mythical girl who is going to come along and give him everything... If she does come along, which I doubt, he won't have the social skills to make it work. But his choice.

 

I think it's time for people to stop giving him so much attention here and enabling his behavior.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Thanks for the laugh

 

I'm serious.

 

That girl WAS NOT INTO YOU. Just like you are not into fat girls. Get it? It's not "God's fault." No fault is involved. We like what we like; she did not like you. So you would NOT have been great together, because it would be sad and miserable to be with someone you really were not into in that way.

[Mme. Chaucer]

 

He clearly believes he is fine and a relationship is all he needs and is willing to do nothing but complain and justify how he's normal and it's all gods and every girl on earths fault.

 

Unless he is willing to do more to get a life, he isn't going to get a girl. Girls don't want to be your everything. They also want you to have your own life too. That involves having friends. If he can't see any benefit in friends, and continues to be totally unaccountable for his own life nothing will change.

 

These discussions with sd remind me of talking with a 95 pound anorexic young woman I knew. She was absolutely positive that if she could just lose that last 4 pounds and not be "fat" anymore, her life would be good and happy.

 

Or some of my fellow recovering substance abusers who do the "geographics" - they believe that if they could just move to California, or wherever, they will be "happy" and they won't have their drinking or drug problem any more.

[Mrlonelyone]

I'm going to go against the peppy advice of others and say this to you. Yor not being "negative" Sumdude. Your being honest about your station in life right now.

 

I don't rememebr what age bracket you are in but I assume you were born in 1981. If you were and you are basically in my age bracket my advice is to leave women under about 28 alone. Too many of the good looking ones haven't mentally graduated from high school yet.

 

If you are around 20 25 ish, in that range the key is to build up a circle of friends male and female. The simplest way is to just fit in with a group that is close to you in age and interest. Then find someone in that group to date. It is a long process. Whatever the circle is, it has to be people you really like and share genuine interest with.

 

The reason I say that is because at all ages women are more social creatures. The social acceptability and position of their mate are of great importance, equal to or greater than weather or not they actually like the guy.*

 

You are not the socially acceptable choice right now, so yeah... more than likely you will hear a no.

 

Make yourself the man most people think is cool and it will be allot easier for you to get a yes. Nothing cools of a woman faster than seeing a look of disapproval on their friends/relatives/strangers faces when they see her paried with a particular man.

 

Source: personal experience, my fathers experience, and my uncles experiences with being socially unacceptable for various reasons.

 

*All of that said the woman might still do you. My father became a father, twice, in his 20's with women who would not date him and did not want him involved with their children. They were white, he was black, it was the early 60's. You know.

[somedude81]

So for you "pursuing" looks exactly like "making friends".

 

Can you see why women are surprised when you suddenly ask them out?

Good catch.

 

I see it as almost completely the same process as making friends. So far the only difference is that if I don't want to be friends with the girl I need to flirt, use innuendo and somehow communicate to her that I don't want to be just friends. And that is what I struggle with.

OP, are you autistic by chance?

Not at all.

 

Why do you ask?

I'm serious.

 

That girl WAS NOT INTO YOU. Just like you are not into fat girls. Get it? It's not "God's fault." No fault is involved. We like what we like; she did not like you. So you would NOT have been great together, because it would be sad and miserable to be with someone you really were not into in that way.

There was absolutely no reason why she couldn't be into me. We were pretty much equals and we made up for each others strengths and weaknesses.

 

As for whose fault it is. It is certainly not my fault that she didn't want to date me. And I'm not saying that it's her fault that she wasn't attracted to me, because people can't really control what they like, you can't make yourself like somebody. So if it wasn't my fault, and it wasn't her fault, then who is left? God, fate, flying spaghetti monster?

Unless he is willing to do more to get a life, he isn't going to get a girl. Girls don't want to be your everything. They also want you to have your own life too. That involves having friends. If he can't see any benefit in friends, and continues to be totally unaccountable for his own life nothing will change.

Would a girl really care what I'm doing when I'm not with her?

 

I'm not going to be checking up on her and trying to find out where she at and who she with.

 

Or when you are in a relationship, you have to self-disclose everything?

[zengirl]

So for you "pursuing" looks exactly like "making friends".

 

Can you see why women are surprised when you suddenly ask them out?

 

Right, that's what I mean. If you think that's pursuing, SD, then that is a part of why you don't understand women. It's not about your 'not caring about having guy friends' so much as your not understanding what pursuing is, how to make friendships, how to romance, etc. The whole notion that you feel making friends would take pursuing in the manner you see yourself pursuing women . . . yes, it's all tied together. The amount of effort you put into 'pursuing' is at a lower level than most people put into it, and the amount you'll put into friendship is none. In both cases, you're a rung below where you should be.

[somedude81]

Right, that's what I mean. If you think that's pursuing, SD, then that is a part of why you don't understand women. It's not about your 'not caring about having guy friends' so much as your not understanding what pursuing is, how to make friendships, how to romance, etc. The whole notion that you feel making friends would take pursuing in the manner you see yourself pursuing women . . . yes, it's all tied together. The amount of effort you put into 'pursuing' is at a lower level than most people put into it, and the amount you'll put into friendship is none. In both cases, you're a rung below where you should be.

And that's exactly what I need help with.

 

All of this talk about friends just a distraction from the real issue, I don't know how to pursue women. That is why I made this thread.

[xxoo]

There was absolutely no reason why she couldn't be into me. We were pretty much equals and we made up for each others strengths and weaknesses.

 

As for whose fault it is. It is certainly not my fault that she didn't want to date me. And I'm not saying that it's her fault that she wasn't attracted to me, because people can't really control what they like, you can't make yourself like somebody. So if it wasn't my fault, and it wasn't her fault, then who is left? God, fate, flying spaghetti monster?

 

First paragraph: those are reasons to be friends. Nothing about that speaks to sexual attraction.

 

Second paragraph: it could be your fault she didn't want to date you. As we've pointed out, you didn't pursue her in a way that a woman would recognize as pursuit. After a while, she probably regarded you in the same way as a brother--with affection and concern, but absolutely no sexual attraction.

 

Would a girl really care what I'm doing when I'm not with her?

 

I'm not going to be checking up on her and trying to find out where she at and who she with.

 

Or when you are in a relationship, you have to self-disclose everything?

 

Anyone who gets to know you will quickly know that you have no friends. Surely D had to know. And yes, I'm sure it affected her view of you. A guy with no friends is more of a project than a potential partner. You may like him, and have fun with him, but you feel responsible for him, and you have concerns about him. He isn't as attractive as a guy who has a healthy social circle.

[ThaWholigan]

And that's exactly what I need help with.

 

All of this talk about friends just a distraction from the real issue, I don't know how to pursue women. That is why I made this thread.

I would argue that it's a small issue considering, but whatever, it's your life.

 

That's me done for now.....

[somedude81]

First paragraph: those are reasons to be friends. Nothing about that speaks to sexual attraction.

Yeah, I don't have a clue how to make a girl sexually attracted to me. I thought it would just happen.

Second paragraph: it could be your fault she didn't want to date you. As we've pointed out, you didn't pursue her in a way that a woman would recognize as pursuit. After a while, she probably regarded you in the same way as a brother--with affection and concern, but absolutely no sexual attraction.

Oh she definitely knew that I liked her and she knew that I wanted to go on dates with her. For a while if I invited her to do something she'd ask if it was a date then before I could answer, she'd tell me that she didn't want to go on a date. Then eventually she stopped asking if they were dates and she started saying yes. Though of course we both know they weren't actual dates.

 

Though for the first month we knew each other, she didn't know I liked her and thought I just wanted to be friends. It wasn't till after she agreed to an actual date that it clicked with her.

Anyone who gets to know you will quickly know that you have no friends. Surely D had to know. And yes, I'm sure it affected her view of you. A guy with no friends is more of a project than a potential partner. You may like him, and have fun with him, but you feel responsible for him, and you have concerns about him. He isn't as attractive as a guy who has a healthy social circle.

Actually she didn't.

 

She just assumed that the people she saw me with were my friends and I wasn't going to tell her otherwise. At that time I had a lot of aqutinces but they were stricty "school friends" and nothing more.

Edited April 27, 2012 by somedude81