It feels impossible

[zengirl]

 

One thing I am wondering, is if I should pretend that the meeting with my boss never happened when I next talk to the girl.

 

I'm also wondering what my next move should be. I don't know if it's too soon to try to see her off work.

 

Don't pre-plan conversations in your head. This will never work out. Instead, simply flirt with her and/or ask to hang out with her, without putting so many 'rules' on it. Don't 'decide' going in --- do more, think less. The opposite is what you've been doing, and it causes anxiety. Things rarely work out as we plan them to; those who can be in the moment do better socially. Truly. Try to go with the flow in your interactions with her.

[ariadne999]

 

Because it would give confirmation that I actually am datable

 

didn't you reject a bunch of fat chix? So you mean "I am dateable to women I want to date" which is kind of different then being "dateable" you are probably neither.

 

 

that I do have value as a man

 

 

if that being dateable thinks gives you value as human being ....

 

 

you would be wrong.

[Ruby Slippers]

Don't pre-plan conversations in your head. This will never work out. Instead, simply flirt with her and/or ask to hang out with her, without putting so many 'rules' on it. Don't 'decide' going in --- do more, think less. The opposite is what you've been doing, and it causes anxiety. Things rarely work out as we plan them to; those who can be in the moment do better socially. Truly. Try to go with the flow in your interactions with her.

Exactly. I've dated a handful of guys over the past couple of months, and in spite of our obvious differences and his likely unsuitability as a long-term partner, the one I like the most and feel most magnetized to is the bouncer with endless confidence, a totally magnetic winner's attitude. Whatever interference pops up, he always has a positive answer and solution to getting over it. When I complimented him on his attitude, he told me he can make the dumbest mistakes and still come out ahead because he just doesn't let them get him down. He told me he would fight back against even the biggest bullies in school, because if some jerk wouldn't leave him alone, he wasn't going to cower in fear and take it. He might get his butt whooped by a bigger guy, but at least he was going to stand up for himself and show that guy he wouldn't be messed with.

 

Who cares if you get chewed out in front of a girl? That's just your dumb supervisor's opinion of you.

 

What you need to understand is that the only opinion of you that really counts is your own.

[sid3]

And when she turns me.

 

 

Wow. Why even bother if that's your attitude. Of course she's going to if that's really what you believe.

[ThaWholigan]

Yeah, it's been a couple of months since I tried to make plans with somebody.

 

The only reason I haven't asked anybody out since then is that I haven't met anybody I'd want to ask out until I talked with this girl. And when she turns me down, I'm sure I'll find somebody else in a month or so that I want to ask out, and the cycle repeats ad infinitum.

 

I think it would be in your best interest increase your frequency. I find it strange that you don't seem to wish to pursue a romantic interest until after a long amount of time. Bit too slow I would think.

 

Of course it's about women.

 

I don't doubt that actually, but still needs reconciling.

 

I think it's somehow connected to my parents divorce and being raised by a single mother and the things she did.

 

OK, so you've identified one sticking point. Now how will you go about reconciling that for your benefit? These are the questions you need to ask yourself.

 

And yes, this feeling has been like this for many years and never getting removed because I was never able to get a Gf.

 

And this is counter-productive. It will perpetuate your hopelessness on the matter. Not saying you should rely on hope, but you should bite the bullet and put yourself out there. I've always wanted a girlfriend, ever since I was very young, younger than you even. I never allowed that feeling of inferiority to infect my entire psyche. You should try to ensure that it doesn't control you for good.

 

It would be absolutely fantastic for me. Want to know why?

 

Because it would give confirmation that I actually am datable, that I do have value as a man and that if it happened before, it can happen again. I have no disillusion that my first relationship will last long at all. But there is so much I can gain from the experience. There is so much I need to learn about relationships and women. Plus there is that whole sex thing.

 

OK fair enough, but I still think you are going about it a little backwards. The longer you think of yourself as undatable as you are now, the harder it will be to actually get that girlfriend. Hold your head up, comrade .

 

Right now it's nothing but psychobabble. I'm tired of theorizing.

 

Well that's alright. But please, take action.

-----

 

One thing I am wondering, is if I should pretend that the meeting with my boss never happened when I next talk to the girl.

 

I'm also wondering what my next move should be. I don't know if it's too soon to try to see her off work.

 

Don't plan. Like zengirl said, let your wit shine in the convo and just flow into it. Step out your head.

[somedude81]

Don't pre-plan conversations in your head. This will never work out. Instead, simply flirt with her and/or ask to hang out with her, without putting so many 'rules' on it. Don't 'decide' going in --- do more, think less. The opposite is what you've been doing, and it causes anxiety. Things rarely work out as we plan them to; those who can be in the moment do better socially. Truly. Try to go with the flow in your interactions with her.

I'm not going to try to pre-plan a conversation, just that if I should make it a point to try to ask her on a date or to hang out, whatever. If I don't, then odds are I'd just have a flirty conversation and that would be it. We all know that I need to start pushing myself.

didn't you reject a bunch of fat chix? So you mean "I am dateable to women I want to date" which is kind of different then being "dateable" you are probably neither.

Would you get an ego boost knowing that a crazy homeless guy would date you? Or knowing that you can get a job at your local fast-food place making minimum wage.

 

if that being dateable thinks gives you value as human being ....

 

 

you would be wrong.

It depends on what criteria one basis their value on.

 

 

Who cares if you get chewed out in front of a girl? That's just your dumb supervisor's opinion of you.

 

What you need to understand is that the only opinion of you that really counts is your own.

So are you telling me that if you were in that situation, with a coworker you have flirted with a couple of times but don't know that well, would it affect how you think of him at all?

 

And of course what the woman thinks of me matters, she's the one who controls if anything happens. The only reason you can say what you did is because as a woman, you are talking from a place of power. You don't care what guys think of you because you can send them away with a wave of your hand.

Wow. Why even bother if that's your attitude.

Did you see the tittle of this thread and my first post?

 

I really have no hope that things will work out, but I might as well and try anyways.

Of course she's going to if that's really what you believe.

Yeah, cause she's reading my mind right now

[zengirl]

I'm not going to try to pre-plan a conversation, just that if I should make it a point to try to ask her on a date or to hang out, whatever. If I don't, then odds are I'd just have a flirty conversation and that would be it. We all know that I need to start pushing myself.

 

Push yourself to be in the moment and ask her out if it feels right in that moment. If you want to do it then, do it. Don't let fear dissuade you.

[ThaWholigan]

And of course what the woman thinks of me matters, she's the one who controls if anything happens. The only reason you can say what you did is because as a woman, you are talking from a place of power. You don't care what guys think of you because you can send them away with a wave of your hand.

 

I hate when guys say this. Almost as much as I hate when guys say they "can't" do stuff......

 

What is this about women having all the power? They don't have power over you. Or your emotions. I have power over myself, my personal power cannot be quashed by a woman's ability to reject me. This is not an alien concept, recognize your worth and your own power. You only have as much power as you decide to give yourself and acquire for yourself.

[Ruby Slippers]

Would you get an ego boost knowing that a crazy homeless guy would date you? Or knowing that you can get a job at your local fast-food place making minimum wage.

Everybody's gotta start somewhere. You need to quit being a snob and come down to earth. My first jobs were minimum wage, and 20 years later, I'm running a successful business and turning reliable profits. There is no shame in cleaning the floor and doing all manner of grunt work to get where you want to go. It truly does build character.

 

I felt snobby toward this bouncer before I went out with him, thinking he wasn't on my level for a dozen reasons. Once I put all that aside, I now have at the very least a caring friend who keeps in touch and puts a smile on my face every time we talk. If I had a real problem or emergency, I have a feeling he'd be here to help before any of the great on-paper prospects would. Suspend your uptight judgments and focus on making some human connections - even with imperfect people.

 

So are you telling me that if you were in that situation, with a coworker you have flirted with a couple of times but don't know that well, would it affect how you think of him at all?

My high school sweetheart and I worked at the same place. Our boss chewed him out more than once, in front of me and others. This had no bearing on him flirting with me and expressing what an ass he thought our boss was (he was). Our boss had fair reason to complain about some of his bad habits (like being late often), but he didn't worry about it one bit. What our boss said didn't affect my opinion of him - it was how the guy handled it that made an impression.

 

And of course what the woman thinks of me matters, she's the one who controls if anything happens. The only reason you can say what you did is because as a woman, you are talking from a place of power. You don't care what guys think of you because you can send them away with a wave of your hand.

A year or two ago, I cared a lot more what guys thought of me. I might feel rejected or hurt if a guy I liked wasn't interested. Now I truly don't give a crap. I keep my attitude upbeat, and mingle with the guys who like me. If a guy doesn't like me, no problem. Let him sit there looking holier than thou while I flirt with this other cutie who makes me glow. Seriously, a guy could walk up to me today and tell me I'm ugly, and I would just laugh in his face and tell him he's stupid.

[Mme. Chaucer]

The worst part is that he thinks getting a girlfriend will solve all his problems, but that will just be one part sorted out. What happens afterwards? When he ties up his happiness with that girl. That's a lot of pressure for both of them, when he has so much at stake. If, god forbid, it wouldn't last, what would that do to him?

 

No kidding. OP has NO idea how difficult, confusing, ego - testing (and possibly destroying) and torturous a relationship can be.

 

A person has to be really emotionally fit to deal with all of it.

 

So, as usual, I'm advising getting fit before getting a gf, rather than trying to make the hypothetical girlfriend fix you up. It is not going to work, beyond a momentary ego boost. Which could be followed by a crash. It happens to many of us.

[Teknoe]

Would you get an ego boost knowing that a crazy homeless guy would date you?

 

LOL, tell me you didn't just (in)directly compared an overweight woman to a crazy homeless guy?

 

LOL.

 

That's part of the problem right there.

 

Mme. Chaucer, I'm totally with you. Unfortunately, it's something SD won't understand until he has a life-altering moment.

 

To be honest, part of the reason I check LS every other day is to see if SD's finally taken any real step of faith/action since I first "met" him back in September 2010. I'm just waiting for the day where he has his breakthrough epiphany. I don't know how or when it's coming, but I'm staying tuned in to see that glorious day.

 

I have a 23 year old cousin who is eerily similar to him, and I love my cousin. In many ways I've been like SD too in my past years. Hoping he "gets it" someday...

[RedRobin]

IMO, get out of SoCal. It's a meat grinder for a guy with your natural emotional style.

 

OP, I agree with Carhill on this one.

 

I've seen the statistics. It is backed up by census data too. California has a much higher % of single men than single women. So, you'll have to try harder to out compete the other guys like a bandit. Which is not in line with your 'natural emotional style' as they say.

[MrNate 2.0]

If you don't mind me asking man, what is the last positive thing you've said to yourself?

[jobaba]

No kidding. OP has NO idea how difficult, confusing, ego - testing (and possibly destroying) and torturous a relationship can be.

 

A person has to be really emotionally fit to deal with all of it.

 

So, as usual, I'm advising getting fit before getting a gf, rather than trying to make the hypothetical girlfriend fix you up. It is not going to work, beyond a momentary ego boost. Which could be followed by a crash. It happens to many of us.

 

Relationships are hard only because people are high maintenance, fussy, and they SUCK.

 

They are hard because instead of looking for somebody they get along with, people just look for surficial reasons why they should dump that same person.

 

I used to think like that. That if I dated a woman I was just going to have to put up with a certain amount of sh@t. Until my last relationship. We had fun, got along great and never fought ever. And when we broke it off, it was peaceful and we have nothing but good memories of each other.

 

She never complained that I was boring, or cheap, or late to pick her up. She had bigger fish to fry in her life. This was a person with REAL problems in her life. Family problems. And she was able not to bring those problems into our relationship and take it out on me.

Edited April 25, 2012 by jobaba

[jobaba]

Personally,

 

I think SD just needs a victory. He doesn't need to change his mental makeup.

 

Dating life is different for everybody.

 

One time when I was in a pretty big slump (years for me) I was at a buddy's party and met this girl who was cute, smart, and confident.

 

We ended up making out and fooling around. Later on, I called her out on a date and she agreed but eventually totally blew me off.

 

Well, that'd probably be an ego blow to a lot of guys. For me, it was a TOTAL VICTORY. It proved to me that I could attract a cute confident woman and not long after (for me anyway) I had a serious GF.

 

And I think SD is programmed the same ...

[Teknoe]

Personally, I think SD just needs a victory.

 

I don't think you would find many folks who would disagree with this. HOWEVER, victories come in MANY different forms. The issue is SD is seeing this as black and white. To him, a victory is getting a GF. Or having sex.

 

There's more to the term "victory" than getting a GF or having sex. It's about contributing to society. Being a good friend (he has no friends which is another issue). Learning how to think of others and helping out other people; putting their needs before yours. etc.

 

Everything's so extreme for him. I liken it to a guy who wants to run a 10K but can barely run one mile. You might want to start off with small, manageable goals first. Yes, small steps are victories in and of itself and they will help lead SD81 to bigger victories.

 

My honest sense is he's scared. Of the unknown. Of failing. Of true intimacy. Despite what he says he wants, I look at his actions, and I see a TON of self-sabotage, whether conscious or subconscious. He is scared to go to the root. He keeps telling himself the problem is something that really isn't the root, and as such, he is doomed to repeat his failures. Sorry. That's been my observation of my OWN life, as well as observations on the lives of other people I know.

 

Just because you sweep issues under the rug doesn't mean they disappear. Out of sight out of mind? Not really.

 

 

.He doesn't need to change his mental makeup.

 

That's your right to believe that. However, I don't see how you could classify someone who has, in the past and even now, consistently:

 

1. talks about suicide

2. talks negatively about himself at every chance he gets

3. thinks in a self-defeated fashion even before the "game starts"

 

etc.

 

How you could honestly say "Nope, there goes a perfectly healthy guy with a solid mental makeup."

 

It's ALL about his mental makeup, actually. A lot of it starts and ends RIGHT THERE.

[SJC2008]

Some people blame OP and say look at himself. Look at me: I'm nice looking, funny, honest and compassionate. All I need is a nice gf to see once or twice a week with a little contact during the week. I don't need a woman to be happy but I want a female companion. Just OP and I can't get a girl it doesn't necessarily make it our fault. Look at the last one I dated. She was great in many ways except etequette. She responded to calls via text so I had to ask her out that way and only answered her phone mabye 2/7 times when I called at a time that I was pretty sure she could answer. Even if she couldn't respond, return the favor with a call. What's the moral of the story? I didn't play the game right and I lost lol.

[Els]

Personally,

 

I think SD just needs a victory. He doesn't need to change his mental makeup.

 

Dating life is different for everybody.

 

One time when I was in a pretty big slump (years for me) I was at a buddy's party and met this girl who was cute, smart, and confident.

 

We ended up making out and fooling around. Later on, I called her out on a date and she agreed but eventually totally blew me off.

 

Well, that'd probably be an ego blow to a lot of guys. For me, it was a TOTAL VICTORY. It proved to me that I could attract a cute confident woman and not long after (for me anyway) I had a serious GF.

 

And I think SD is programmed the same ...

 

Well, I'm sure there's something that a third party person or organization can do for someone that will improve their life drastically. For example, if V had a guy who told her how sexy she was 253846732897089 times a day, she might actually improve. Or if a cure for cancer was found, I'm sure a cancer patient's life would significantly get better. Or if a person who grew up with non-available parents had actually had a parent figure that substituted them, growing up would be easier for them.

 

I know if someone donated a million dollars to me, life would certainly get better!

 

But there are several extremely inherent problems with depending on the actions of a third party to 'fix oneself up'. The first being that you actually have no direct control over what a third party does. That is a fact of life. And until one learns that the only thing one can control is himself, and he would be better off doing whatever HE can instead of putting the onus for his happiness solely on something he cannot control, he really won't be happy. The second is that believing such discourages someone from even trying. And naturally, when you don't try, this makes the third party even less likely to help you out. For instance, if I really wanted someone to donate large sums of cash to me, I should spend my time attempting to come up with a novel research proposal or business plan, not sit around on my hiney waiting and complaining that it isn't coming, and saying that my life would be fixed if only it came!

 

I don't think anyone is denying that having a girl fall for him would 'help' SD (I certainly think it will), but depending on it is likely to be his downfall.

[TheBigQuestion]

 

1. talks about suicide

2. talks negatively about himself at every chance he gets

3. thinks in a self-defeated fashion even before the "game starts"

 

etc.

 

How you could honestly say "Nope, there goes a perfectly healthy guy with a solid mental makeup."

 

It's ALL about his mental makeup, actually. A lot of it starts and ends RIGHT THERE.

 

I agree. There is way more going on here than SD just not being able to get a girlfriend. He is seriously depressed and some of the thoughts he's expressed on LS are pretty alarming, and not all of them have origins in his failure to get female attention. I hope he looks at therapy as a serious option and actually goes into it with a truly open and tolerant mind so that it might actually work for him. SD, I know you've given therapy a shot before, but you really need two things right now:

 

1. The full spectrum of psychological/psychiatric treatment.

 

2. Some real male friends that you can rely upon and speak to. Close family members count for a whole lot as well.

 

Given some of the things you've said here, I actually fear that you getting what you want so badly, a relationship, could be the worst thing that could happen to you. I mean, people with no history of mental issues can be driven batsh*t insane by a relationship that goes bad. Get your underlying problems treated first.

Edited April 25, 2012 by TheBigQuestion

[jobaba]

Well, I'm sure there's something that a third party person or organization can do for someone that will improve their life drastically. For example, if V had a guy who told her how sexy she was 253846732897089 times a day, she might actually improve.

 

Lol. You could have just said 2.54 x 10^14

 

Good point.

[casanovadude81]

They say the mind of a human being is formed only of comparisons made in order to examine analogies, and therefore cannot precede the existence of memory. By recollecting the pleasures I have had formerly, I renew them, I enjoy them a second time, while I laugh at the remembrance of troubles now past, and which I no longer feel. Though understand hatred/fear, in the course of time, kills the unhappy who delights in nursing it.

 

The man who has sufficient power over himself to wait until his nature has recovered its even balance is the truly wise man. It is only necessary to have courage, for strength without self-confidence is useless.

 

Open yourself to possibility. It’s not impossible.

[Teknoe]

I agree. There is way more going on here than SD just not being able to get a girlfriend. He is seriously depressed and some of the thoughts he's expressed on LS are pretty alarming, and not all of them have origins in his failure to get female attention. I hope he looks at therapy as a serious option and actually goes into it with a truly open and tolerant mind so that it might actually work for him. SD, I know you've given therapy a shot before, but you really need two things right now:

 

1. The full spectrum of psychological/psychiatric treatment.

 

2. Some real male friends that you can rely upon and speak to. Close family members count for a whole lot as well.

 

Given some of the things you've said here, I actually fear that you getting what you want so badly, a relationship, could be the worst thing that could happen to you. I mean, people with no history of mental issues can be driven batsh*t insane by a relationship that goes bad. Get your underlying problems treated first.

 

 

+1

 

For SD to look to attain 1 and 2 in his life would be huge. Unfortunately, you just know he won't make the effort to do so. Why, because he's waaaay too comfortable in his overly familiar self-defeatist rut.

 

He really should watch the movie TAKE ME HOME TONIGHT, which is streaming on Netflix. The main character is always looking for an "in." But that's just an excuse. You just need to make your own breaks.

 

His sister also tells him "You act like you're about doing and trying but you really don't. And you go after the hottest girl because you know you won't get her, so there's REALLY NO RISK IS THERE"

 

SD if he wanted to could be dating. But like he said himself, he doesn't want to date overweight women. Nothing wrong with that I suppose, as we all have our own preferences. But I suspect he's going after girls who aren't interested in him/attracted to him, and that's another problem.

 

Cast your net out further. Don't judge folks on the outside so much.

 

But again, all that is secondary. First, he needs professional help and male friends to help walk alongside him in this season of his life. He needs a real life support group that can love on him and challenge him to grow. I suspect he's isolated nearly 24/7, has no accountability whatsoever, and that's why he's growing very very VERY slowly, if at all. He's not someone who can be left to their own devices and improve. He needs guidance, direction, lots of support and love.

 

I do know his parents divorced when he was a very young boy, and his last group of friends "broke up with him" in junior college, and that his mom was very demanding/critical of him growing up. I can sort of get a gist of who SD81 may be. Certainly better than I know, say, Dust. SD's revealed enough over time and posted enough long theories and beliefs that I have an educated guess of what he's sort of like and also why he isn't experiencing any success in his life.

 

He's isolated, has no passion to GENUINELY self-improve, and is waiting/foolishly hoping for that magic bullet in the form of a suitable fit girlfriend with B or bigger size breasts. I also suspect he spends an unhealthy amount of time on the internet and reading/posting on boards like Loveshack. I also know he's a thinker, so he's probably overanalyzing every little detail which is paralyzing him from actually stepping out of the boat in faith.

 

SD, rooting for ya as always. But please seek real life friends you can talk with and start to learn how to function socially as a true 30-year-old man. Not a 30 year old "guy" with overwhelmingly unhealthy insecurities. Since you're mostly isolated, your social skills are not being sharpened. GET OUT OF THE HOUSE AND MINGLE!

 

Stop staying home alone on Saturday nights.

Start making an effort to get to know people for the sake of friendship, and not for the sake of finding a GF.

 

You live in SoCal! There are so many single meet-ups and single activities to engage in. Please take advantage of this and just GO, DO, BE.

[somedude81]

I read over all of the posts and I want to focus on joystickd's.

Do you really want to be good with women or do you just like complaining and having a pity party? If you do really get out there and do it and experience. The only way is to use the rejections as feedback.

How can I use rejections as feedback?

 

As I said before, there is basically a 99.9% chance she'll turn me down. What can I do to gain something from her rejection?

[Mme. Chaucer]

This probably sounds lame, but I truly believe that we go through what we go through for reasons - specifically, to learn.

 

I don't think that you, SD, have learned the lessons for you in this extended period of early adolescence you're stuck in. And I think you are likely to remain here until you are willing to open up your mind to learn.

[somedude81]

This probably sounds lame, but I truly believe that we go through what we go through for reasons - specifically, to learn.

 

I don't think that you, SD, have learned the lessons for you in this extended period of early adolescence you're stuck in. And I think you are likely to remain here until you are willing to open up your mind to learn.

Mme. Chaucer, all I've ever been doing is learning lessons. Honestly I'm completely tired of failing and having nothing to show for it except another lesson of what not to do. The most recent one I learned is not to be friends with girls I like, hoping they will fall for me.

 

So with this failure that's going to happen soon, I want to get something out of it. Something that will help me for the next time I meet a girl.