It feels impossible

[zengirl]

Few people can really understand the felling of true hopelessness. The things it can do to ones brain is crazy.

 

Hopelessness is a mindset, and, as such, a choice. Plenty of people could understand the feeling of true hopelessness if they chose to succumb to it. I've known all kinds of adversity in my life, plenty I have never bothered to share here, even the feeling of hopelessness and extreme grief at times. I'm willing to bet most have. I've subsequently learned to be empowered and find hope in myself, rather than in the world around me, and the world has become a better place. No one has a monopoly on pain. Plenty of people who choose to wallow in it THINK they do. I'm not trying to invalidate your pain -- your pain is your pain. But defining yourself with pain is a losing proposition that I don't suggest. Choose a better mindset, and you'll find a better life. This is always true.

 

Read Kamille's latest post. That's a good example of how to move forward.

 

I also agree with Carhill that SoCal is not a good place for someone like you. I'd suggest the Pac NW or Midwest or Southwest or Southeast. All better suited to your goals.

[verhrzn]

I also agree with Carhill that SoCal is not a good place for someone like you. I'd suggest the Pac NW or Midwest or Southwest or Southeast. All better suited to your goals.

 

Chicago has a nice plethora of single girls. I also think the Midwest would be much much better for your mindset.

[xxoo]

I'm kinda getting the feeling that I should just be focusing on that part and not even bother with asking girls out till I get very comfortable there.

 

But I'm not getting any younger.

 

I'm just so tired of being alone, I need something to happen and soon.

 

I'm not suggesting you spend a year on the step of flirting.

 

But getting invested in the first girl who flirts back doesn't feel like change to me. That is more of the same--fixating on one girl. I'm suggesting you spend a few weeks flirting with a few girls before starting to ask girls out.

 

I really believe that if you spend a month flirting with many girls, at the end of the month you will feel a little differently about how girls see you, and that will give you some of the confidence you need to actually date women.

[somedude81]

1) If you don't do it now while you have nothing invested, and do it later when you really like her, it's really going to sting. So I'd do it now.

Yeah, I agree with you. Might as well try it now. I highly doubt my chances will go up the more I get to know her.

 

So far I've only had short conversations with her and I don't really know what to do next when I know so little about it.

 

And it is best that I ask her out before I start to like her.

 

2) If your rejection rate was 99.9%, theoretically you might have to go for 1000 girls before one like you. That is a stretch. But NOT THAT MUCH! I'll be honest with you. For some guys, it's probably right around 99% or greater.

So far my rejection rate has been 100%.

3) Having dreams about women is bad. Pretty soon, you're going to start being enamored with her in your head, and it's all downhill from there.

Dude, I said non-related dream. Meaning, I wasn't dreaming of her.

 

Here's my suggestion. Next time, on your way to work, stop by the liquor store and pick up a few of those little whiskey bottles that they sell behind the counter. When you get to work, shoot a couple of them in the bathroom. Automatic liquid courage. Go up to her and start chatting and say you guys should hang out sometime and then ask for her number.

 

Remember man. That's only the FIRST STEP! She may still give you her phone number and flake out. And if and when you get a date, your chances to get rejected at that point are still very high. If you can't get past the first step, there's no hope.

Yeah I can suggest that we hang out, but I'm not going to get drunk before work. BTW, I've never actually gotten the liquid courage thing.

Try to enjoy the journey.

 

Flirting is fun, right? It is a thrill all by itself. Enjoy it. Engage in it more often, with MORE WOMEN.

 

The flirting itself will improve your confidence. Give it a chance! You'll feel more comfortable and confident as you get more and more positive feedback from girls.

 

Set a small goal: to concentrate on flirting only, with lots of girls, for 4 weeks. That's low risk, and easy to achieve. And then reevaluate how you feel about asking a girl out after the end of the 4 weeks.

Yes flirting is fun and I wish I could do it more often with more girls. But right now it feels that the girl controls if it happens or not. Honestly, I have no idea how it even happened with this girl. There is a lost and found bin next to her station and I was going to give her an old book about tools and next thing I know where talking about tools and sex, like getting nailed and screwed, it was just weird. She was definitely the one to get sexual and I was just along for the ride. I talked her about a few other things and she's just really easy to talk to, so I figure I might as well ask her out.

 

For now, flirting does not help my confidence. And the value of the feedback is questionable. All it really means is that she doesn't think I'm a creep. But flirting is like having celery sticks when you haven't eaten in days.

At one point, I was a salesperson who HAD only heard "No." I'm sure I felt kinda crummy at times. Hell, I feel kinda crummy at times when I hear, "No" now. But what I didn't do was stop trying. And then eventually I heard, "Yes." The issue is you have not put yourself out there for anywhere near the amount of failure required to get to a "yes." You really haven't. I'm not sure how many "No"s I heard before I made my first sale or got my first date by asking men out (the first time I ever had the chutzpah to ask a guy out, I got turned down, btw; the second time, too, and the third time, and many others -- a lot at the beginning before I realized how to do it correctly) because I wasn't counting, but the point is that you cannot let the outcome control you so much. I am willing to bet I've failed more at things I actually tried in my life and heard more "No"s than you.

That may be true. But the actual number doesn't count. I've basically gone 17 years without hearing a yes. Try to imagine how that feels.

 

How do you not let the outcome control you? I can't even begin to describe how important getting a GF is to me.

All the zen stuff isn't going to work for him.

 

Dude has been here for YEARS and people have been giving that same advice for YEARS! Changing philosophy and hard ingrained thought patterns takes a lot of time if possible at all.

 

Now is not the time for emotion and existential questioning. Now is the time for cold, hard rational action. He needs results to change his mentality.

Take my advice man!

Results are the only thing that matters.

 

A positive result will obviously have a good impact on me.

 

A negative result will cause me to dislike myself even more and question my value.

I've never in my life met a woman so desperate that she would date ANYBODY.

 

I mean, I currently have one desperate female friend who hasn't had a boyfriend in many years and is always facebooking about how lonely and loveless she is, but she still lusts after certain types and would probably reject me to be honest (I have no interest in her).

 

Women usually aren't like that. Date anybody just to have somebody. She could definitely have somebody if that's all she wanted.

IMO, desperate girls don't exist. I've known girls who were lonely and wanted a BF. but they weren't going to lower there standards.

 

And no the obese girl I dated way back when, wasn't desperate. She left me for another guy after two weeks.

[Ross MwcFan]

1) If you don't do it now while you have nothing invested, and do it later when you really like her, it's really going to sting. So I'd do it now.

 

2) If your rejection rate was 99.9%, theoretically you might have to go for 1000 girls before one like you. That is a stretch. But NOT THAT MUCH! I'll be honest with you. For some guys, it's probably right around 99% or greater.

 

3) Having dreams about women is bad. Pretty soon, you're going to start being enamored with her in your head, and it's all downhill from there.

 

Here's my suggestion. Next time, on your way to work, stop by the liquor store and pick up a few of those little whiskey bottles that they sell behind the counter. When you get to work, shoot a couple of them in the bathroom. Automatic liquid courage. Go up to her and start chatting and say you guys should hang out sometime and then ask for her number.

 

Remember man. That's only the FIRST STEP! She may still give you her phone number and flake out. And if and when you get a date, your chances to get rejected at that point are still very high. If you can't get past the first step, there's no hope.

 

Yup, just the first step in a long line of hoops and hurdles.

[Kamille]

Somedude,

 

What's one change, proposed here on this thread, that you'd be willing to try today?

[jobaba]

Chicago has a nice plethora of single girls. I also think the Midwest would be much much better for your mindset.

 

Wrigleyville is a MEAT market. But I liked the DePaul area. And only in Chicago can you see a blues band where the lead singer wears a mink coat and feathered fedora and thinks it's still 1972.

 

Good town...

[verhrzn]

Ugh, seriously, if you won't try and you're willing to throw in the towel when she is flirting back at you, then giving up really IS the only option.

 

Make up your mind. Risk the rejection, or give up. The end.

[zengirl]

But right now it feels that the girl controls if it happens or not.

 

This is the crux of your problem. xxoo is trying to say, "Try flirting and feeling empowered by it" and in order to do that you have to CHOOSE to feel empowered by choosing to flirt and feel its in your control.

 

The "yes" is never going to be within your control. What you have to do is find your empowerment elsewhere, completely outside of the reactions of other people. It sounds hard, but it's not really. You just keep fighting it.

That may be true. But the actual number doesn't count. I've basically gone 17 years without hearing a yes. Try to imagine how that feels.

 

I'm sure it feels crappy. LOADS of things feel crappy if you let them. I choose to choose ways to allow myself to be empowered and control my mindset and -- to some degree -- my feelings. Try to imagine how that feels. (A hint: Pretty damn good. And I'm saying you can feel pretty damn good too! Just change your mindset.)

 

How do you not let the outcome control you?

 

You choose not to let the outcome control you. You realize that your happiness is not dependent on the outcome, but rather your mindset, and you choose to be happy and set goals for yourself that are attainable and possible, such as the flirting goal xxoo suggested.

 

You have to change, though, and you're so resistant to change. Most unhappy people are. It's sad to see.

[jobaba]

Yeah, I agree with you. Might as well try it now. I highly doubt my chances will go up the more I get to know her.

 

So far I've only had short conversations with her and I don't really know what to do next when I know so little about it.

 

And it is best that I ask her out before I start to like her.

 

 

Honestly ... you'd be surprised how little women have to know you before you are making out with them.

 

And I don't need to tell you that women can know you inside out and share a rapport with you and flirt with you all day and still reject you. You already know that.

 

I can only say what has worked for me.

[ThaWholigan]

Yup, just the first step in a long line of hoops and hurdles.

This has always been a problem: This is how I used to see dating for a while. I decided to change that about myself, now I see it like a game, a challenging game, but a game nonetheless and I have more than one life. Or you can think of it like an RPG game. Where each battle has a level of exp to gain, as you progress. I could elaborate, but you need to engage your imagination yourself.

 

Basically, stop seeing dating girls as hoops and hurdles, and see it as something more fun. Reprogram yourself, make it into a game. Part of that would be to stop viewing yourself so badly and disliking yourself, and trust me your whole view will change

[PlumPrincess]

So, start with humor. You have all of LS rooting for you. Use it. Start laughing at this ridiculous state of affair. Start thinking and talking about it differently. It's a simple step, one that doesn't even require flirting with women.

I have not once seen Somedude react positively to a suggestion. No matter what you tell him that he should try, he never does it. People offer him coaching for free and he turns it down.

 

I think I'm going to put him on ignore. I just can't stand the whining anymore.

[Ross MwcFan]

For the last time, no you don't. Just look at SD... he's HAD the desperate girl, and he ended up finding it a gross experience. (Of course, that was because she was fat, but I digress.) A desperate girl is NOT gonna make you feel better, she's just going to drag you down more, and you'll eventually break her heart out of resentment and indifference.

 

Keep trying, flirt, or give up.

 

A really desperate girl would definatley make me feel better.

[verhrzn]

A really desperate girl would definatley make me feel better.

 

Yeah until a few months/years later when you realize you actually AREN'T into her, you're just into the inflated sense of confidence she gives you. Then you dump this poor girl who did nothing wrong but for the sheer fact that you were NEVER into her, and leave her broken hearted and you feeling guilty. And then you immediately move onto someone better, because you now have the confidence to draw a better type of girl (or, more accurately, approach and court a better type of girl) while she sobs into her pillow every night over how much she loves you.

 

Does that sound at all fun to you? Maybe if you're an absolute jerk who enjoys using people...

 

In other words, don't do it. Just freaking try for the girls you like, deal with the rejection, or give up. That is the humane and logical thing to do.

[Imajerk17]

I fail to see what's stupid about believing you have a chance.

 

But I pulled that sentence because I think what you need, above all, is to tap into your sense of humor about all of this.

 

I was bullied in junior high. With hindsight, it feels like I spent most of it "cloistered", desperately trying to figure out how to be cool like the other kids, and miserably failing. It felt like everybody knew a secret that I didn't. Until one day, the day my self-esteem somehow kicked into place. Someone had written an insult on my locker. Normally I would have felt shame and erased it as quickly as possible, but instead, I left it there, and wrote a joke about it next to it. I was still considered uncool, still the object of bullying, but I suddenly felt powerful. I had discovered that other people's clear indication that I wasn't inherently awesome in now way diminished the fact that I could still think I was awesome.

 

 

So, start with humor. You have all of LS rooting for you. Use it. Start laughing at this ridiculous state of affair. Start thinking and talking about it differently. It's a simple step, one that doesn't even require flirting with women.

 

Wow. I didn't know that about you. I feel your power Kamille!

[Ross MwcFan]

I've never in my life met a woman so desperate that she would date ANYBODY.

 

I mean, I currently have one desperate female friend who hasn't had a boyfriend in many years and is always facebooking about how lonely and loveless she is, but she still lusts after certain types and would probably reject me to be honest (I have no interest in her).

 

Women usually aren't like that. Date anybody just to have somebody. She could definitely have somebody if that's all she wanted.

 

Bet she'd reject me too.

[Ross MwcFan]

Yeah until a few months/years later when you realize you actually AREN'T into her, you're just into the inflated sense of confidence she gives you. Then you dump this poor girl who did nothing wrong but for the sheer fact that you were NEVER into her, and leave her broken hearted and you feeling guilty. And then you immediately move onto someone better, because you now have the confidence to draw a better type of girl (or, more accurately, approach and court a better type of girl) while she sobs into her pillow every night over how much she loves you.

 

Does that sound at all fun to you? Maybe if you're an absolute jerk who enjoys using people...

 

In other words, don't do it. Just freaking try for the girls you like, deal with the rejection, or give up. That is the humane and logical thing to do.

 

Who says I wouldn't be into her?

 

And don't tell me what to do.

Edited April 23, 2012 by Ross MwcFan

[verhrzn]

Who says I wouldn't be into her?

 

And don't tell me what to do.

 

Because you're choosing her because she's desperate. Because YOU'RE desperate. You're choosing her not out of affection, or common interests, or even attraction, but because neither of you can get anything better.

 

You will not stay with her. Period. Guys have dated me out of desperation, and every single one of them has dumped me. Every. Single. One. Because you can't build a relationship on desperation. It doesn't last.

 

Why why why why is it so hard for you to just GO OUT AND FLIRT? Or give up, just give up.

[Ross MwcFan]

Because you're choosing her because she's desperate. Because YOU'RE desperate. You're choosing her not out of affection, or common interests, or even attraction, but because neither of you can get anything better.

 

You will not stay with her. Period. Guys have dated me out of desperation, and every single one of them has dumped me. Every. Single. One. Because you can't build a relationship on desperation. It doesn't last.

 

Why why why why is it so hard for you to just GO OUT AND FLIRT? Or give up, just give up.

 

Umm, it is possible for me to be attracted to a desperate girl.

 

You need to change your attitude or just give up.

[verhrzn]

Umm, it is possible for me to be attracted to a desperate girl.

 

You need to change your attitude or just give up.

 

I HAVE given up, BECAUSE of that sort of attitude... "Oh well, I'll date this girl because I'm desperate but maybe something will change." I am so, so sick of getting dumped over and over by desperate men who later discover their confidence.

 

You cannot build a relationship on desperation. Get it out of your head. Go out and flirt. Or give up like me. Period.

[jobaba]

Because you're choosing her because she's desperate. Because YOU'RE desperate. You're choosing her not out of affection, or common interests, or even attraction, but because neither of you can get anything better.

 

You will not stay with her. Period. Guys have dated me out of desperation, and every single one of them has dumped me. Every. Single. One. Because you can't build a relationship on desperation. It doesn't last.

 

Why why why why is it so hard for you to just GO OUT AND FLIRT? Or give up, just give up.

 

It sucks that you have gone through that. I feel bad and I really mean it.

 

But if it makes you feel any better, good looking guys do that to cute and average looking girls too (not that I think you're unattractive). They date them and then dump them when something better comes along. Or cheat on them the whole time they are with them.

 

Those women get their frustrations out by rejecting men like the ones who are posting on this thread.

 

Ah. The vicious cycle of life...

[SJC2008]

Confidence is overrated IMO. I have a friend where all of his gf's have come to him. He admits that he cant ask girls out. He hangs out at a local bar and met his last girl there. They get to know eachother up there for a little, one night she goes to his house and they screw and have been together for 2 years now. There is no way he has the balls to ask a women for her # sober like I have, but he gets a GF and I don't. He's average looking too.

Edited April 23, 2012 by SJC2008
Punctuation

[AD1980]

Confidence is overrated IMO. I have a friend where all of his gf's have come to him. He admits that he cant ask girls out. He hangs out at a local bar and met his last girl there. They get to know eachother up there for a little, one night she goes to his house and they screw and have been together for 2 years now. There is no way he has the balls to ask a women for her # sober like I have, but he gets a GF and I don't. He's average looking too.

 

I agree confidence is a vague fluff cliche word used in the datign world

 

I have a friend whos very insecure but really good looking and has women flock and approach him all the time so hes never without women

[zengirl]

Re: Desperation

 

No, a relationship born of desperation -- on either side -- cannot work out well. SD recounts the seemingly 'desperate' gal who left him -- in that case, they were both desperate, and neither was happy. That is not to say that someone cannot sincerely LIKE another person who feels desperate, but I still think the desperation would infect the relationship. I suggest just not letting yourself feel desperate. Desperation helps no one and nothing.

 

Or you can think of it like an RPG game. Where each battle has a level of exp to gain, as you progress. I could elaborate, but you need to engage your imagination yourself.

 

I love it! I quite often think of my life as an RPG game. At any rate, I think you deserve +5 Eloquence/Speech for that post.

[Philosoraptor]

That's just the way I've been since I was 13 years old. And I can't control it.

 

Huh?

Frankly, I don't give a damn if I can bring true happiness to somebody. I wasted too much time, energy, and emotions on the last girl trying to do that and I didn't get sh*t out of it. I'm just going to go for what I want, and if she can get something out of it, fine.

A relationship is give and take. Why stay with someone who doesn't make you happy? A relationship will be unfulfilling if one or both people do not make their partner happy.

 

I have no clue what your last sentence means.

People are attracted to those who are happy with themselves. You need to be happy within before you can be truly happy in a relationship. Those who lean on relationships for their happiness end up pushing their partner away.

 

How do you become happy with yourself if you think you look loserish and just not the type that any women would go for?

You stop living for someone else and start living for yourself. I've seen some butt ugly people with partners and it's because they are happy within themselves. They find happiness with themselves first and people are just drawn to them. It's like an aura that you just want to get closer to.