It feels impossible

[Philosoraptor]

And that will not happen for as long as I'm single.

 

Getting confidence seems harder than getting a GF.

You're too focused on the opposite sex. Females will exist and continue to exist whether or not you are actively searching for them. If you work on finding a strong sense of who you are you will more actively be able to trust your people picker and be more intiuitive regarding whom might be interested in you.

 

If you're unhappy with yourself you are unable to bring any sort of true happiness to another. If you can't bring that to another, they certainly won't be interested in you. Having a strong sense of who you are will give you confidence in you which will make you more appealing to the opposite sex.

[somedude81]

So you meet a new girl, have a nice exchange, she becomes a "possibility" and you start thinking "this is hopeless".

 

SD, is this thought pattern similar to reactions you've had in the past? If so, how regular is it and how long have you had this pattern? Have you ever had another reaction?

 

I'm curious to hear the answer to these questions because the thought pattern might explain why you so easily end up in the friendzone (your words, not mine).

This is actually a brand new reaction. Normally I'd be thinking of ways to talk to her more, get her out of the store and start hanging out with her. But for some reason I just "know" that doing it that way isn't going to work. After things went wrong with the last girl, I lost that belief that things will just work out. I've become much more realistic, and apparently don't believe in hope anymore.

 

For now, I will simply offer that you're getting way ahead of yourself. I worry that this will impede you from simply continuing to chat light-heartedly with this girl.

I think the same way. I almost don't want to talk to her anymore. Though I am trying new things with her and and as january said, it is one step closer to my goals. But I don't know how long the road is, and that's the scary part.

What's so terrifying about "no"?

 

I think that's what you need to work through if you ever get to yes. In my personal and professional life, I've heard no FAR more time than I've heard "Yes." People who can hear, "No," and keep going (not necessarily towards that same goal, of course - respect people's boundaries - but in general) are going to find success eventually. That's almost always true. Every one I know or can think of who's ever had great or minor success had some degree of perseverance. Taking rejection with grace is one of life's great lessons -- the metaphysical side of me thinks that those who have EXTREME fears of rejection (like you, and -- once upon a time, me, by the way) are working out something that they were sent into this life to work out. Even if that's not the case, a world of real, tangible, useful good comes from getting over a fear of rejection and really putting yourself out there, time and time again. Granted, change up your efforts -- don't be Charlie Brown with a football, but his only mistake is continually trusting Lucy, not wanting to kick a football -- and apply them differently or to different people and learn from your failures and rejections. There is a lot to learn there.

 

But you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. So, even 0.01% (not saying your % predictions are right, but even if they are) is better than that, and the "No" really doesn't cost you anything except what you DECIDE it costs you.

I think we've talked about this before.

 

How you would feel as a salesperson if you only ever heard "no." How long could you last in the profession. Obviously you'd be fired or quit if you never got a sale. Then how would you feel if you were working for yourself, so nobody will fire you but you can't quit and you have to keep trying to sell?

 

It's not about getting a single "no", but the un-breaking chain of them.

You many feel that you actually have a chance if you play the game rather than take yourself out of the game.

 

As well as see yourself as a guy that is attractive and has attractive qualities to the women you want. If you can't see yourself as that guy then perhaps it's best suited to work on the qualities you think are attractive to the gals you want.

I know I'm not attractive to women but most of the time I'm just in denial about it and don't think about it.

 

As for the qualities that women are attracted to, I don't know if I actually have a chance.

You could convince yourself not to care about women at all int eh romantic/sexual sense by killing your libido with herbs or prescription medicine and investing your emotions elsewhere.

The sex drive is a big part of it. If I could manage it, I'd still have the desire for companionship.

--------

I'll get to more posts later.

[jobaba]

Something just shook me awake very early this morning.

 

Yesterday, I had a nice exchange with one of the newer girls at work. We did a little flirting and innuendo happened it's way in there. Now she's on my radar of girls I can be into.

 

Briefly becoming partially awake after a non-related dream, she popped into my head. I was wondering when she worked next and when I can talk to her again, then I had the thought of asking her out then right away there was the automatic thought that she'd just reject me and that completely woke me up, forcing me out of bed long before I normally do.

 

I'm 99.9% sure that she'd turn me down for whatever reason, it doesn't matter what. And I strongly got the feeling that I shouldn't bother anymore with her, to not think about her at all and move on to the next girl I happen to meet, who will also have a 99.9% chance of rejecting me, same with the next one and so on.

 

How am I supposed to feel that I actually have a chance in this game?

 

I'm so tired of the meet new girl, interact, think about her, get rejected routine. But I really don't see anything changing. I almost feel that I'd be better off just not caring about women at all; if only I could convince myself not to.

 

Next time I see her, ugh, I can't even finish that thought. This whole situation with women is hopeless.

 

1) If you don't do it now while you have nothing invested, and do it later when you really like her, it's really going to sting. So I'd do it now.

 

2) If your rejection rate was 99.9%, theoretically you might have to go for 1000 girls before one like you. That is a stretch. But NOT THAT MUCH! I'll be honest with you. For some guys, it's probably right around 99% or greater.

 

3) Having dreams about women is bad. Pretty soon, you're going to start being enamored with her in your head, and it's all downhill from there.

 

Here's my suggestion. Next time, on your way to work, stop by the liquor store and pick up a few of those little whiskey bottles that they sell behind the counter. When you get to work, shoot a couple of them in the bathroom. Automatic liquid courage. Go up to her and start chatting and say you guys should hang out sometime and then ask for her number.

 

Remember man. That's only the FIRST STEP! She may still give you her phone number and flake out. And if and when you get a date, your chances to get rejected at that point are still very high. If you can't get past the first step, there's no hope.

[xxoo]

I think the same way. I almost don't want to talk to her anymore. Though I am trying new things with her and and as january said, it is one step closer to my goals. But I don't know how long the road is, and that's the scary part.

 

Try to enjoy the journey.

 

Flirting is fun, right? It is a thrill all by itself. Enjoy it. Engage in it more often, with MORE WOMEN.

 

The flirting itself will improve your confidence. Give it a chance! You'll feel more comfortable and confident as you get more and more positive feedback from girls.

 

Set a small goal: to concentrate on flirting only, with lots of girls, for 4 weeks. That's low risk, and easy to achieve. And then reevaluate how you feel about asking a girl out after the end of the 4 weeks.

[zengirl]

How you would feel as a salesperson if you only ever heard "no." How long could you last in the profession. Obviously you'd be fired or quit if you never got a sale. Then how would you feel if you were working for yourself, so nobody will fire you but you can't quit and you have to keep trying to sell?

 

At one point, I was a salesperson who HAD only heard "No." I'm sure I felt kinda crummy at times. Hell, I feel kinda crummy at times when I hear, "No" now. But what I didn't do was stop trying. And then eventually I heard, "Yes." The issue is you have not put yourself out there for anywhere near the amount of failure required to get to a "yes." You really haven't. I'm not sure how many "No"s I heard before I made my first sale or got my first date by asking men out (the first time I ever had the chutzpah to ask a guy out, I got turned down, btw; the second time, too, and the third time, and many others -- a lot at the beginning before I realized how to do it correctly) because I wasn't counting, but the point is that you cannot let the outcome control you so much. I am willing to bet I've failed more at things I actually tried in my life and heard more "No"s than you. The fact that I've persevered and found more yeses too doesn't negate that, nor does it negate the reality that I failed at absolutely everything I talked myself out of trying.

 

If you really believe no, "Yes," is ever possible, then give up, I guess. I don't see the point in that, and you don't seem to be doing it. But this attitude you have is neither serving you well, nor very attractive. As such, I suggest a change. Nothing will change until you do.

[ThaWholigan]

At one point, I was a salesperson who HAD only heard "No." I'm sure I felt kinda crummy at times. Hell, I feel kinda crummy at times when I hear, "No" now. But what I didn't do was stop trying. And then eventually I heard, "Yes." The issue is you have not put yourself out there for anywhere near the amount of failure required to get to a "yes." You really haven't. I'm not sure how many "No"s I heard before I made my first sale or got my first date by asking men out (the first time I ever had the chutzpah to ask a guy out, I got turned down, btw; the second time, too, and the third time, and many others -- a lot at the beginning before I realized how to do it correctly) because I wasn't counting, but the point is that you cannot let the outcome control you so much. I am willing to bet I've failed more at things I actually tried in my life and heard more "No"s than you. The fact that I've persevered and found more yeses too doesn't negate that, nor does it negate the reality that I failed at absolutely everything I talked myself out of trying.

 

If you really believe no, "Yes," is ever possible, then give up, I guess. I don't see the point in that, and you don't seem to be doing it. But this attitude you have is neither serving you well, nor very attractive. As such, I suggest a change. Nothing will change until you do.

I remember when I was selling CDs, that was pretty hard at the time so in a sense I understand the salesperson thing. The outcome was not the sole pursuit. I managed to make it more fun as time went on. Use your imagination to more positive use instead of reinforcing the same attitude that, as zengirl said, isn't serving you well at all.

[AD1980]

Try to enjoy the journey.

 

Flirting is fun, right? It is a thrill all by itself. Enjoy it. Engage in it more often, with MORE WOMEN.

 

The flirting itself will improve your confidence. Give it a chance! You'll feel more comfortable and confident as you get more and more positive feedback from girls.

 

Set a small goal: to concentrate on flirting only, with lots of girls, for 4 weeks. That's low risk, and easy to achieve. And then reevaluate how you feel about asking a girl out after the end of the 4 weeks.

 

I wouldnt say flriting is fun for everyone,for some who are unattractive or a little socially awkward it can be seen as "creepy" by women

[fortyninethousand322]

At one point, I was a salesperson who HAD only heard "No." I'm sure I felt kinda crummy at times. Hell, I feel kinda crummy at times when I hear, "No" now. But what I didn't do was stop trying. And then eventually I heard, "Yes." The issue is you have not put yourself out there for anywhere near the amount of failure required to get to a "yes." You really haven't. I'm not sure how many "No"s I heard before I made my first sale or got my first date by asking men out (the first time I ever had the chutzpah to ask a guy out, I got turned down, btw; the second time, too, and the third time, and many others -- a lot at the beginning before I realized how to do it correctly) because I wasn't counting, but the point is that you cannot let the outcome control you so much. I am willing to bet I've failed more at things I actually tried in my life and heard more "No"s than you. The fact that I've persevered and found more yeses too doesn't negate that, nor does it negate the reality that I failed at absolutely everything I talked myself out of trying.

 

If you really believe no, "Yes," is ever possible, then give up, I guess. I don't see the point in that, and you don't seem to be doing it. But this attitude you have is neither serving you well, nor very attractive. As such, I suggest a change. Nothing will change until you do.

 

The difference is the salesperson also has heard a "yes" at some point too. SD hasn't. How does he know there's light on the other side of that tunnel?

[ThaWholigan]

I wouldnt say flriting is fun for everyone,for some who are unattractive or a little socially awkward it can be seen as "creepy" by women

It's only fun if you aren't depending on the outcome. You have to make it fun instead of handing all your personal power over.

[ThaWholigan]

The difference is the salesperson also has heard a "yes" at some point too. SD hasn't. How does he know there's light on the other side of that tunnel?

He keeps doing it without stopping. He learns on the job. He experiments. He doesn't take it too seriously. He tried to make it fun.

 

You're starting a company if I remember. These are all things you will have to learn to support your career too, and I'd imagine you can use them as transferable skills to help you with women too .

[verhrzn]

The difference is the salesperson also has heard a "yes" at some point too. SD hasn't. How does he know there's light on the other side of that tunnel?

 

Again, so he can give up like I'm doing. If he doesn't want to try, and he doesn't want to give up, then what does he want??

[xxoo]

I wouldnt say flriting is fun for everyone,for some who are unattractive or a little socially awkward it can be seen as "creepy" by women

 

This isn't a hypothetical. He is successfully flirting with this woman. She is flirting back. Fun.

[fortyninethousand322]

He keeps doing it without stopping. He learns on the job. He experiments. He doesn't take it too seriously. He tried to make it fun.

 

You're starting a company if I remember. These are all things you will have to learn to support your career too, and I'd imagine you can use them as transferable skills to help you with women too .

 

Sure. But I'm also young and dumb. I probably can persevere a little.

 

Again, so he can give up like I'm doing. If he doesn't want to try, and he doesn't want to give up, then what does he want??

 

He probably wants it to be easier. I can't tell you how many times I've wished to come across a really desperate girl.

[jobaba]

Try to enjoy the journey.

 

Flirting is fun, right? It is a thrill all by itself. Enjoy it. Engage in it more often, with MORE WOMEN.

 

The flirting itself will improve your confidence. Give it a chance! You'll feel more comfortable and confident as you get more and more positive feedback from girls.

 

Set a small goal: to concentrate on flirting only, with lots of girls, for 4 weeks. That's low risk, and easy to achieve. And then reevaluate how you feel about asking a girl out after the end of the 4 weeks.

 

I remember when I was selling CDs, that was pretty hard at the time so in a sense I understand the salesperson thing. The outcome was not the sole pursuit. I managed to make it more fun as time went on. Use your imagination to more positive use instead of reinforcing the same attitude that, as zengirl said, isn't serving you well at all.

 

All the zen stuff isn't going to work for him.

 

Dude has been here for YEARS and people have been giving that same advice for YEARS! Changing philosophy and hard ingrained thought patterns takes a lot of time if possible at all.

 

Now is not the time for emotion and existential questioning. Now is the time for cold, hard rational action. He needs results to change his mentality.

 

Take my advice man!

[ThaWholigan]

Sure. But I'm also young and dumb. I probably can persevere a little.

 

 

 

He probably wants it to be easier. I can't tell you how many times I've wished to come across a really desperate girl.

 

What I did was learn to love a challenge. Sometimes I steamroll my way into them without thinking about it. Sure I don't always win, but eventually I will, no matter how many times I fail. It all depends on how you view failure and what it means to you.

[ThaWholigan]

All the zen stuff isn't going to work for him.

 

Dude has been here for YEARS and people have been giving that same advice for YEARS! Changing philosophy and hard ingrained thought patterns takes a lot of time if possible at all.

 

Now is not the time for emotion and existential questioning. Now is the time for cold, hard rational action. He needs results to change his mentality.

 

Take my advice man!

He doesn't know that, he hasn't tried anything else other than what he already does. I'd be happy if he took your advice, or mine, or anyone elses, just as long as he does something different. Even if he fails this time around, it won't be so bad, and he has to make himself understand that it isn't as bad.

[zengirl]

The difference is the salesperson also has heard a "yes" at some point too. SD hasn't. How does he know there's light on the other side of that tunnel?

 

And my point is that if SD kept going, as many salespeople do, he'd hear a "Yes" and that almost everyone has started out at something hearing "No" before "Yes." Additionally, it's not like SD has never heard "Yes," at ANYTHING in life - he's gotten into school, he's gotten a job, he's had people say yes in a variety of ways. The fact that he's experienced dating rejection and amplified it in his mind and allowed it to become a defining feature of his life does not mean he cannot change that attitude for the future. He can. But he has to choose to do so.

 

He keeps doing it without stopping. He learns on the job. He experiments. He doesn't take it too seriously. He tried to make it fun.

 

You're starting a company if I remember. These are all things you will have to learn to support your career too, and I'd imagine you can use them as transferable skills to help you with women too .

 

Exactly. You either keep going, adjusting as you learn, and eventually get somewhere, or you stop and you fail. That's all there is. We all experience setbacks and failure before success. The whole, "But if I just got a yes once I'd be okay, but I've only ever heard No, so I'm not responsible for my attitude" thing doesn't work. It just doesn't. So, lose it.

 

It's not going to be any easier unless you make it easier. The world is not going to take pity on you --- at least I've never seen it do so. Might as well try something that has a chance of working, I say. Personally, I decided a long time ago to feel empowered and proud when I try, so that my self-esteem does not hang on the balance of the outcome that may be out of my control but rather on my actions/words/thoughts/etc, which are within my control.

[verhrzn]

He probably wants it to be easier. I can't tell you how many times I've wished to come across a really desperate girl.

 

For the last time, no you don't. Just look at SD... he's HAD the desperate girl, and he ended up finding it a gross experience. (Of course, that was because she was fat, but I digress.) A desperate girl is NOT gonna make you feel better, she's just going to drag you down more, and you'll eventually break her heart out of resentment and indifference.

 

Keep trying, flirt, or give up.

[jobaba]

He doesn't know that, he hasn't tried anything else other than what he already does. I'd be happy if he took your advice, or mine, or anyone elses, just as long as he does something different. Even if he fails this time around, it won't be so bad, and he has to make himself understand that it isn't as bad.

 

No, I agree with you. Dude just needs to take action either way.

[jobaba]

He probably wants it to be easier. I can't tell you how many times I've wished to come across a really desperate girl.

 

I've never in my life met a woman so desperate that she would date ANYBODY.

 

I mean, I currently have one desperate female friend who hasn't had a boyfriend in many years and is always facebooking about how lonely and loveless she is, but she still lusts after certain types and would probably reject me to be honest (I have no interest in her).

 

Women usually aren't like that. Date anybody just to have somebody. She could definitely have somebody if that's all she wanted.

[Queen Zenobia]

I've never in my life met a woman so desperate that she would date ANYBODY.

 

I mean, I currently have one desperate female friend who hasn't had a boyfriend in many years and is always facebooking about how lonely and loveless she is, but she still lusts after certain types and would probably reject me to be honest (I have no interest in her).

 

Women usually aren't like that. Date anybody just to have somebody. She could definitely have somebody if that's all she wanted.

 

There are desperate women out there. Usually semi-psychotic ones though. Not exactly the types I would suggest that anyone here date.

[somedude81]

Ahh you see you've fallen into what I like to call the flowery trap. Where you think about you two possibly going out together to the extremely minor detail, how everything is perfect and it all goes great........then you think of the million different ways that she is going to reject you with inevitability and get all upset about it.

 

This is a tough one, and although there are a number of ways to break it, they all seem so hopeless (or at least they will to you at this moment).

I see no future with her beyond possibly going on one date. The last girl is the one where I had everything planned out and all the stuff we could do together etc. This girl I'm afraid that she's just going to be another rejection, with many more to go.

It is very possible for a woman to like you, and be attracted to you. It is!

 

One idea---Keep flirting with her for the moment. Keep that relationship playful and suggestive, getting to know her better. Develop some more playful, suggestive banter with other women. Then, when that step gets a little easier, move on to the next step of asking girls out. The flirting will build your confidence and chances for success, and having a few "options" will help you be less invested in any one "yes" or "no".

I'm kinda getting the feeling that I should just be focusing on that part and not even bother with asking girls out till I get very comfortable there.

 

But I'm not getting any younger.

 

I'm just so tired of being alone, I need something to happen and soon.

OK, own that.

 

IMO, get out of SoCal. It's a meat grinder for a guy with your natural emotional style.

 

As others have suggested, focus on other parts of life.

 

Yes, it does feel impossible. That's valid. It will be valid until the possible rules. Maybe that will occur. Maybe not. It's unknown. The next second of life is unknown. Focus on the now.

How would things be any different somewhere else? Unless you are talking about getting out of the US.

 

It's not like I'm going for the stuck up really hot girls.

I can understand SD's fears. If she rejects him and he has to see the woman everyday at work, it's a constant reminder and will make the work environment uncomfortable and awkward.

 

 

Depends, really. Depends on how he approaches her and what makes him uncomfortable. It is certainly possible to approach in a respectful way, accept rejection (if it comes) in a graceful way, and not be awkward or embarrassed. Truly, such a thing has happened.

I'm not afraid of things becoming awkward at work. It's not like I'm going to profess my love for her or other junk like that. I'll go as far as asking her on one date, if she says no, then I'll just be polite with her if I run into her.

I hear you sd im right where you are its tough you feel like just giving up because youre tired of the hurt and rejection..The possiblity of a women saying yes seems like an impossiblity..

 

I know people are trying to help but most trying to help have had some sucess with attracting the opposite sex so they cant feel where people like you are coming from..

 

To tell someone in their 30's whos never had sucess to magically be confident is not easy or always realistic..

 

They really have no idea whats its like and how lonely unwanted and unattratcive you feel..

Yeah you definitely get it.

 

Few people can really understand the felling of true hopelessness. The things it can do to ones brain is crazy.

Then you have the option to give up. Just stop doing anything. Stop trying, stop wanting a relationship. If you can't force yourself to even try, to have SOME confidence in the fact that she is already flirting with you, then abandoning all hope for a romantic relationship is your best bet.

 

(This is not meant in a mean way, I am undergoing the "give up" process myself.)

 

But really, if you won't give up and you won't try, what are you expecting??

I have no idea how to give up.

 

Frankly, I'd rather be dead then live the rest of my life alone. From 13 till now has been absolutely terrible because there was nothing more that I wanted than a GF.

 

Yes I am going to try with her, but when things fail, which they will, then what? I can't keep trying and failing till I'm grey and wrinkled.

 

You're too focused on the opposite sex.

That's just the way I've been since I was 13 years old. And I can't control it.

 

Females will exist and continue to exist whether or not you are actively searching for them. If you work on finding a strong sense of who you are you will more actively be able to trust your people picker and be more intiuitive regarding whom might be interested in you.

Huh?

If you're unhappy with yourself you are unable to bring any sort of true happiness to another. If you can't bring that to another, they certainly won't be interested in you. Having a strong sense of who you are will give you confidence in you which will make you more appealing to the opposite sex.

Frankly, I don't give a damn if I can bring true happiness to somebody. I wasted too much time, energy, and emotions on the last girl trying to do that and I didn't get sh*t out of it. I'm just going to go for what I want, and if she can get something out of it, fine.

 

I have no clue what your last sentence means.

[Kamille]

It almost seems stupid to think I have a chance.

 

 

I fail to see what's stupid about believing you have a chance.

 

But I pulled that sentence because I think what you need, above all, is to tap into your sense of humor about all of this.

 

I was bullied in junior high. With hindsight, it feels like I spent most of it "cloistered", desperately trying to figure out how to be cool like the other kids, and miserably failing. It felt like everybody knew a secret that I didn't. Until one day, the day my self-esteem somehow kicked into place. Someone had written an insult on my locker. Normally I would have felt shame and erased it as quickly as possible, but instead, I left it there, and wrote a joke about it next to it. I was still considered uncool, still the object of bullying, but I suddenly felt powerful. I had discovered that other people's clear indication that I wasn't inherently awesome in now way diminished the fact that I could still think I was awesome.

 

 

So, start with humor. You have all of LS rooting for you. Use it. Start laughing at this ridiculous state of affair. Start thinking and talking about it differently. It's a simple step, one that doesn't even require flirting with women.

[ThaWholigan]

I fail to see what's stupid about believing you have a chance.

 

But I pulled that sentence because I think what you need, above all, is to tap into your sense of humor about all of this.

 

I was bullied in junior high. With hindsight, it feels like I spent most of it "cloistered", desperately trying to figure out how to be cool like the other kids, and miserably failing. It felt like everybody knew a secret that I didn't. Until one day, the day my self-esteem somehow kicked into place. Someone had written an insult on my locker. Normally I would have felt shame and erased it as quickly as possible, but instead, I left it there, and wrote a joke about it next to it. I was still considered uncool, still the object of bullying, but I suddenly felt powerful. I had discovered that other people's clear indication that I wasn't inherently awesome in now way diminished the fact that I could still think I was awesome.

 

 

So, start with humor. You have all of LS rooting for you. Use it. Start laughing at this ridiculous state of affair. Start thinking and talking about it differently. It's a simple step, one that doesn't even require flirting with women.

Somedude should do stand-up

[Ross MwcFan]

You're too focused on the opposite sex. Females will exist and continue to exist whether or not you are actively searching for them. If you work on finding a strong sense of who you are you will more actively be able to trust your people picker and be more intiuitive regarding whom might be interested in you.

 

If you're unhappy with yourself you are unable to bring any sort of true happiness to another. If you can't bring that to another, they certainly won't be interested in you. Having a strong sense of who you are will give you confidence in you which will make you more appealing to the opposite sex.

 

How do you become happy with yourself if you think you look loserish and just not the type that any women would go for?