It feels impossible

[somedude81]

never mind.....

You're such a tease SF. I see you listed as the most recent poster, and with bated breath, click on Last Page. And this is what I get...

[USMCHokie]

I remember reading about that. Why hasn't he taken you up on your offer?

 

This got me thinking...and I think I've identified one of the underlying factors:

 

SD simply is not proactive. At all. In any aspect of his life.

 

If someone on LS genuinely offered to pay for my way to Vegas, meet up, and hang out, I'd be all over that. And I would be proactive about it; setting up available times and dates, making arrangements, and just plain putting in effort to make it happen. Instead, I get the "I'll get back to you" line, and never hear from him again. He's lazy. He expects the world to do all the work and for him to reap the benefits. And I have a very strong feeling that this is not limited to dating and relationships, but also in school and work.

 

Hell, he even said just now that he won't start looking for someone else until this girl rejects him...? And he's not going to do anything towards asking her out, so she'll never even know to reject him...

 

He asks for "direct" help...that just sounds like he wants someone to hold his hand...reminds me a bit of Cyrano de Bergerac...but instead, the roles are reversed...he doesn't want to figure things out on his own.

 

And when you legitimately offered local resources to him, he declines. He's too lazy to put in effort. It's easier to do nothing, maintain the status quo, and roll around in all the attention on LS. 20 pages deep in an LS thread will certainly do wonders to the ego...

[SmileFace]

You're such a tease SF. I see you listed as the most recent poster, and with bated breath, click on Last Page. And this is what I get...

 

Pfffft.

 

Such potential

 

I really wish you would stoping trying to understand the advice you are given here and just take it.

[marinelife3]

I still think that "empathy" is the best word for the element you need to work on to flirt more effectively. The reason no one can give you a good script for flirting is because it's really about knowing the right thing to say at the right moment, and that requires an understanding of the girl you're talking to, how she's responding to what you're saying, and what you could or couldn't get away with saying next.

 

Also, I had an idea. I think you need to watch the movie Annie hall. You're obviously clever, you make these witty asides sometimes, but you should aspire to rise to the Woody Allen level.

[somedude81]

This got me thinking...and I think I've identified one of the underlying factors:

 

SD simply is not proactive. At all. In any aspect of his life.

Hokie, that's a big conclusion to jump to.

 

If someone on LS genuinely offered to pay for my way to Vegas, meet up, and hang out, I'd be all over that. And I would be proactive about it; setting up available times and dates, making arrangements, and just plain putting in effort to make it happen. Instead, I get the "I'll get back to you" line, and never hear from him again.

Here's my side, a guy who seems cool on a forum, but who I ultimately don't know wants me to go to Vegas with him. I have no idea what we are going to do or how it would be fun. I've been to Vegas a couple of times and it's never been a Vegas Baby Yeah! thing.

 

I'm worried about the cost of the trip and if it's going to take time out from work and school.

 

Long story short, I'm not sold on the trip.

 

Hell, he even said just now that he won't start looking for someone else until this girl rejects him...?

There isn't anybody else that I have my eye on at the time. The other girls I could be interested are unavailable. There are a couple cuties in my accounting class but I haven't talked to any of them this semester. I was basically in a fog the first half of the class.

 

And he's not going to do anything towards asking her out, so she'll never even know to reject him...

We'll see about that.

 

Would you care to place a wager on that?

He asks for "direct" help...that just sounds like he wants someone to hold his hand...reminds me a bit of Cyrano de Bergerac...but instead, the roles are reversed...he doesn't want to figure things out on his own.

No, I want idea for flirting, things I could try and help with decoding women.

 

Frankly I'm surprised that nobody said anything about the fact that this girl started talking sexual with me in our very first conversation and she wa the one to start it.

Pfffft.

 

Such potential

That's what all my elementary school teachers said when I was getting D's

I really wish you would stoping trying to understand the advice you are given here and just take it.

I can just take most advice.

 

But when it's something like "be more empathetical" I don't have a clue what to do with it.

I still think that "empathy" is the best word for the element you need to work on to flirt more effectively. The reason no one can give you a good script for flirting is because it's really about knowing the right thing to say at the right moment, and that requires an understanding of the girl you're talking to, how she's responding to what you're saying, and what you could or couldn't get away with saying next.

I don't need a script.

 

A female friend of mine told me that when flirting I need to conjure a dirty mind and think of sexual things to say. Go out of my comfort zone and say things that I normally wouldn't. That I don't need to hold myself back because I'm embarrassed. That's the kind of advice I'm looking for.

 

Also, I had an idea. I think you need to watch the movie Annie hall. You're obviously clever, you make these witty asides sometimes, but you should aspire to rise to the Woody Allen level.

OK, I'll check it out.

[Meeks7]

Meeks, what's with the 3rd degree?

 

I'm simply curious because I think those answers may tell the tale. Have you been able to hold down a job for any extended length of time? Why did you go back to college? What are your academic goals in college? Or are you just there to be there and with the hopes of meeting young college girls while you're there?

 

What happened in your life when you were 22-28 (AKA the "physical peak prime" years of a person's life)?

 

I'd just like to know.

 

 

You're such a tease SF. I see you listed as the most recent poster, and with bated breath, click on Last Page. And this is what I get...

 

Huh. Well this says a lot. It sounds like you get a real kick out of your ability to generate massive threads with 10+ different posters trying to reach out to you.

 

Is it possible you're using this sense of addiction as a substitute from real life human connection? It might explain why you create these threads every week or two. A lot of times human beings find idle distractions to keep themselves from tackling deeper issues. Might you be abusing loveshack instead of using it wisely?

 

 

This got me thinking...and I think I've identified one of the underlying factors:

 

SD simply is not proactive. At all. In any aspect of his life.

 

If someone on LS genuinely offered to pay for my way to Vegas, meet up, and hang out, I'd be all over that. And I would be proactive about it; setting up available times and dates, making arrangements, and just plain putting in effort to make it happen. Instead, I get the "I'll get back to you" line, and never hear from him again. He's lazy. He expects the world to do all the work and for him to reap the benefits. And I have a very strong feeling that this is not limited to dating and relationships, but also in school and work.

 

Hell, he even said just now that he won't start looking for someone else until this girl rejects him...? And he's not going to do anything towards asking her out, so she'll never even know to reject him...

 

He asks for "direct" help...that just sounds like he wants someone to hold his hand...reminds me a bit of Cyrano de Bergerac...but instead, the roles are reversed...he doesn't want to figure things out on his own.

 

And when you legitimately offered local resources to him, he declines. He's too lazy to put in effort. It's easier to do nothing, maintain the status quo, and roll around in all the attention on LS. 20 pages deep in an LS thread will certainly do wonders to the ego...

 

I see, so he gave you the "I'll think about it" line too, eh? Yup, same here. Of course, I've always associated "I'll think about it" as a nice polite way of saying "Screw you, I won't really think about it but I'm trying to be nice and get you to go away." In my life experience, whenever people say "I'll think about it" -- 80-85% chance they never follow through.

 

I believe you're onto something, Chokie. But SomeDude doesn't appear just lazy. I sense a deep fear that has accumulated over years of lack of success as well as years of lack of meaningful HUMAN interaction (i.e. FRIENDS). It seems he is stuck in his own world. From what he posts here, his viewpoint is a bit off balance, to say the very least.

 

Laziness combined with an overwhelming sense of fear is never a good combination.

 

Sadly, although he claims he wants to get better, he's clearly content to do absolutely nothing about it.

[somedude81]

I'm simply curious because I think those answers may tell the tale. Have you been able to hold down a job for any extended length of time?

Longest I've ever held a job was 3 years and that was working retail. I've had a few retail jobs and my current job is also retail. I've also done some full time temp work when I wasn't going to school.

 

Why did you go back to college? What are your academic goals in college?

I'm in college so I can get a career where I don't have to worry about money, unlike my parents who have always struggled.

 

Right now I have one more year left to get my Business degree that is focused on Information Systems. I hope to get an IT related job shortly after I graduate.

 

Or are you just there to be there and with the hopes of meeting young college girls while you're there?

And yes, I would love to date some young college girls. Needless to say I'm very disappointed I haven't been able to. There are so many beautiful girls all over the place. But I feel like it's a museum, look but don't touch.

 

What happened in your life when you were 22-28 (AKA the "physical peak prime" years of a person's life)?

I was very shy and quiet I also spent a lot of time playing video games.

 

You also asked what I did on campus.

 

So far I've played in two intramural sports teams, was an active member of the Japan and Salsa clubs on campus. I've also asked out about 10 girls on campus. None of them were random girls.

Huh. Well this says a lot. It sounds like you get a real kick out of your ability to generate massive threads with 10+ different posters trying to reach out to you.

 

Is it possible you're using this sense of addiction as a substitute from real life human connection? It might explain why you create these threads every week or two. A lot of times human beings find idle distractions to keep themselves from tackling deeper issues. Might you be abusing loveshack instead of using it wisely?

Huh?

 

I was obviously joking with her and she understood that.

[Meeks7]

Right now I have one more year left to get my Business degree that is focused on Information Systems. I hope to get an IT related job shortly after I graduate.

 

That's good. Keep your focus there and make sure your girl obsession doesn't take you off the ball, career-wise.

 

And yes, I would love to date some young college girls. Needless to say I'm very disappointed I haven't been able to. There are so many beautiful girls all over the place. But I feel like it's a museum, look but don't touch.

 

Are you looking mainly at 19-22 year old females? How do you feel about dating a girl closer to your age? Say, 28-30 years old?

 

So far I've played in two intramural sports teams, was an active member of the Japan and Salsa clubs on campus.

 

That's good. Are you still on these teams? If not, why did you stop? They sound like good things to be a part of. How long were you on each team? 2 months? 2 years?

 

 

I've also asked out about 10 girls on campus. None of them were random girls.

 

Were they all under 26 years old? Were they all 19-23 years old? And how many of them did you ask out directly and right away or did you wait and do the whole "buddy buddy" thing first? Gotta avoid that friend zone and ask them out right away. The longer you drag your feet to ask a woman out, the higher chance it increases for her to say "no." The faster you ask her out, the higher chance it increases for her to say "yes."

 

Lesson: Don't wait. Be assertive and ask out your co-worker interest the next time you see her. And no excuses, either. No "Ah it wasn't the right time" or "She was too busy." Just get it done.

 

You might be surprised when she tells you "Yeah OK! Sounds fun!"

 

So, get to it SomeDude! Get yo woman yo!

[Nistan]

Somedude. I had similiar problems like you when I was younger.

I soon realized that I couldn't find solutions in these kind of places.

Mostly because, I soon realized, the people giving me advice are people that are somewhat willfully ignorant or speaking from a place of privilige.

 

Basically, our society tells us that getting a gf/bf is a rite of passage. Thats why you get so vague answers. You see to most people, me included until I caght myself doing this, a relationship is something transformative. there is a belief that some sort of soul like being have changed in them. it's not just that they got more skilled.

And that is the crux of your problem. You need to get more skills, not a better personality. Because we use social skills to transmit/hide/soften/sell who we are to the rest of the world. People want you to put your wagon before the horse.

 

Think like this, how did you develop a skill that you have today. Take a deep breath and decide that you will do the same process with your social skills.

 

Trust me, this helped immensley and put you in an advantage of sorts. because most don't seem to have skills, more a competency in hiw to be socially. As soon they are out of their comfortzone they seem to be as fumbling as any other. When they do tests in this field where you can do tight or wrong most people bung it up. They never had to think criticaly about what they actually are doing or why it works. That means they can't se the universality in their actions and apply them to new situations.

[ThaWholigan]

Best flirting advice I can give is definitely to become a wordsmith. I am lucky to have what my good friend calls a "spectacular vernacular" . So when I am not stuck in my head and flowing in an interaction, I find it easy to use words to my advantage with regards to innuendo, double entendres and words that can easily be interpreted in a sexual sense without being overtly crude.

 

Homework: learn words in the dictionary and practice using them in conversation. I used to do this as a kid, I actually taught myself to read and write growing up so I never had a problem finding information.

 

Become comfortable using words around girls. Actually have fun with it. You don't have to be the super jokey guy throwing around quips per second. Just relax into it and you'll find your timing. I'm not the funniest dude around, but I make it work simply off of timing. Special mention to your voice, using your tonality to your advantage and how you say words can have a great effect. You don't have to make your voice completely deep, but pace your words. Don't talk like Leonard from Big Bang Theory .

 

You should research and read about a bunch of stuff so you have things that you can talk about aswell to at least a comfortable degree (as long as they are interesting to you of course).

 

Experiment with it, do a little bit of teasing too. That works. Not about anything physical that she can't change, but just like a little thing like an action she does (maybe she picked her nose while talking to you). That can work.

 

With the dirty talk stuff, I would say don't be too bait, it kills the fun for them. See how vague you can be sexually without being too direct.

 

I'll see what more I can put later.....

[PlumPrincess]

This is really like watching the train wreck...

 

I don't understand why you guys are so persistent.

 

Somedude: I don't need people skills. I need advice how to flirt.

LS posters: Then you nneed to do this and that.

Somedude: I tried and I got rejected. Women are superficial. They don't like short guys.

LS posters: We've dated guys our height and shorter and we loved it. Maybe you are the one who is too fixated on superficial criteria?

Somedude: That's not true, I'm really desperate for a girlfriend, any will do. I only have some requirements, she has to be white, cute, and not fat. Also, she has to have more than a cupsize A. I don't understand why women reject me. I am in the same league as these girls. Why are they not as much in love with me as I am with them? It's unfair that they don't approach me.

LS posters: It's your personality that repels women. You are superficial and your people skills are not good.

Somedude: Why do I need a good personality and people skills to attract women? I will develop all these when I'm a in relationship.

LS posters: You won't be able to get and maintain a relationship without developing your personality and your people skills.

Somedude: I don't need people skills. I need advice how to flirt.

 

or

 

Somedude: I'm depressed. I desperately want a relationship. I'm a loser who only has seen rejections from women. I need help!

LS posters #1: Hey, let me help you. Let's get together and have a good time. I can show you how to meet women.

LS poster #2: I know someone who is helping people as her profession. She can help you for free.

Somedude: Let me think about it... Ok for this and that reason I won't do it. But please don't assume that I'm not proactive. I'm going to start a new thread now where I will reject any advice as not working. I'm such a hopeless case. I really don't understand why women are not attracted to me.

 

Am I the only one who has been noticing this for quite a while?

[Teknoe]

This is really like watching the train wreck...

 

I don't understand why you guys are so persistent.

 

Somedude: I don't need people skills. I need advice how to flirt.

LS posters: Then you nneed to do this and that.

Somedude: I tried and I got rejected. Women are superficial. They don't like short guys.

LS posters: We've dated guys our height and shorter and we loved it. Maybe you are the one who is too fixated on superficial criteria?

Somedude: That's not true, I'm really desperate for a girlfriend, any will do. I only have some requirements, she has to be white, cute, and not fat. Also, she has to have more than a cupsize A. I don't understand why women reject me. I am in the same league as these girls. Why are they not as much in love with me as I am with them? It's unfair that they don't approach me.

LS posters: It's your personality that repels women. You are superficial and your people skills are not good.

Somedude: Why do I need a good personality and people skills to attract women? I will develop all these when I'm a in relationship.

LS posters: You won't be able to get and maintain a relationship without developing your personality and your people skills.

Somedude: I don't need people skills. I need advice how to flirt.

 

or

 

Somedude: I'm depressed. I desperately want a relationship. I'm a loser who only has seen rejections from women. I need help!

LS posters #1: Hey, let me help you. Let's get together and have a good time. I can show you how to meet women.

LS poster #2: I know someone who is helping people as her profession. She can help you for free.

Somedude: Let me think about it... Ok for this and that reason I won't do it. But please don't assume that I'm not proactive. I'm going to start a new thread now where I will reject any advice as not working. I'm such a hopeless case. I really don't understand why women are not attracted to me.

 

Am I the only one who has been noticing this for quite a while?

 

lol no you're not the only one. I guess SD has that aura about him that makes people on here want to reach out and "save him." Call it a Savior complex. It's actually such a thing.

 

The thing is, word on the net will never change him.

 

He has to live it.

 

Sadly, me thinks he's living mostly at home (and not out there in the real world) and thus, the very sloooooow growth he's shown the past couple years. I think it's pretty obvious why he doesn't have any guy friends and why he aims for girls in their early 20s.

 

He has trouble relating with guys in any capacity, and he has trouble relating with more mature women. Hence, 21 year old D who liked Ninja Turtles and video games.

 

21 year olds are puppies, and naive. I'm surprised she put up with him as long as she did. A 28 year old woman never would have.

[Teknoe]

Somedude: I'm depressed. I desperately want a relationship. I'm a loser who only has seen rejections from women. I need help!

LS posters #1: Hey, let me help you. Let's get together and have a good time. I can show you how to meet women.

LS poster #2: I know someone who is helping people as her profession. She can help you for free.

Somedude: Let me think about it... Ok for this and that reason I won't do it. But please don't assume that I'm not proactive. I'm going to start a new thread now where I will reject any advice as not working. I'm such a hopeless case. I really don't understand why women are not attracted to me.

 

Am I the only one who has been noticing this for quite a while?

 

LOL! I just read that part (before I kind of skimmed the 2nd scenario; only read the first one). That is totally what's going on with SD. He talks about it, but when offered a REAL chance at embracing change, he runs to his corner. He seems to NOT want ANY human interaction that involves them seeing him in the flesh. It's almost like he's afraid of meeting people who are willing to lend him a hand. Social anxiety? I'm not shocked if he suffers from it.

 

I've never seen anyone so stubborn and so unwilling to work on their flaws. I think that's why so many reach out to him. If you're going to help someone, then you want to help the person with the biggest problems. Go big or go home kind of thing I guess? lol.

 

I just had another thought.

 

Beside empathy and friends, something else he appears to lack is the ability to honestly reflect about how his choices and words affect others. He hasn't shown much ability to learn from his mistakes. Although he is a thinker, I think he's thinking about the wrong things. He doesn't appear to be the kind of person who reflects on what actually has worked and what hasn't. He just keeps thinking about some fantasy future how some B+ breast sized 7-plus out of 10 looking female will give him a shot at being her boyfriend.

 

He's hammering a triangle into a square peg. And then gets upset when he doesn't understand why it's not fitting in like he thought it would. Ironically, as the thread title states, he finds himself screaming "It feels impossible!"

Edited April 28, 2012 by Teknoe

[zengirl]

Hold up, wait a minute!

 

All this "empathy" stuff just means understanding people and knowing how they work?

 

Why not just say that in the first place?!

 

My God, you were making it seem like the most complicated thing in the world and like I was some kind of psycho for not having empathy.

 

BTW, the actual definition of empathy is

 

the intellectual identification with or vicarious experiencing of the feelings, thoughts, or attitudes of another.

 

I. . . did say that in the first place. I said it a bunch of times. I also said other stuff, and I know my posts can get lengthy, but sometimes I feel like you really don't totally read anything on here and just skim and miss the main point. It's part of why the threads get so long. I wonder if you do this in conversations too -- many people do, and it's frustrating. They respond constantly to what they think they hear and don't actually hear or understand what the other person is saying. In writing, that's not necessarily the same (because comprehension skills are also needed on both sides -- and writing is far more fallible than speech), but in speech, it'd definitely indicate a lack of empathy.

 

Right. That's basically understanding people, how they tick, and what they feel. Bonus points for being able to vicariously experience it, but all you really 'need' is the intellectual understanding. But the definition isn't any difference from what I said, and I said you were NOT a sociopath type for not having empathy (sometimes people mean 'hurts people without caring' when they say 'no empathy' but I made several posts to specifically address that wasn't what I was referring to --- I was referring to the definition you listed here).

 

I'm start to get that too.

 

This whole empathy discussion was a total waste of my time. It was really causing me to start doubting myself and now that I see it was over nothing at all.

 

The fact that you think empathy is 'nothing' is kind of the problem. You've said you lack an understanding of people and demonstrated that as well, so I don't get why it's over nothing. Because you don't find it important? That was the whole problem and the point was that most people do and will not 'teach' you how to understand them but expect you to know.

 

And no offense to Zengirl, but telling me that people can get into a relationship without flirting is crappy advice for me.

 

I didn't suggest you NOT flirt. I just said it was not a magic bullet, and, frankly, I don't think skill at flirting is all that connected to ability to get a GF (maybe more connected ability to get a BF - in most Rs I see, gals carry it). It really is not. If you don't have basic social skills down pat, flirting will do you little good. Most flirting does not lead to relationships or even close. I think flirting, in general, is a GREAT idea, but I don't want you to expect it to be transactional -- where you expect to flirt and get somewhere with a girl and then get discouraged and come back 6 months later, saying, "I've been flirting! What gives?!?!" So I'm telling you "What gives?!?!" now: empathy. Any social interactions, including flirting, could help you build empathy if you choose to actively work on that.

 

Frankly all I wanted to focus on, is how I can improve my pursuit of women. That's it.

 

As reallyhotguy says, it's all the same issue. And men who are successful at dating are successful at friendship as well.

[Meeks7]

So SomeDude, did you ask your coworker interest out yet?

The sooner you ask her out, the higher % she'll say yes.

[somedude81]

So SomeDude, did you ask your coworker interest out yet?

The sooner you ask her out, the higher % she'll say yes.

I'm working tomorrow and maybe she is to. If not, it will have to be another day I work. Unless I come in when I"m not working and try to flirt with her?

[USMCHokie]

I'm working tomorrow and maybe she is to. If not, it will have to be another day I work. Unless I come in when I"m not working and try to flirt with her?

 

God, I hate that word "flirt"...and I cringe a little whenever I see it...why not just talk to her...?

[somedude81]

God, I hate that word "flirt"...and I cringe a little whenever I see it...why not just talk to her...?

Because talking his how I make new friends. And the last thing I want to do is be her friend.

[USMCHokie]

Because talking his how I make new friends. And the last thing I want to do is be her friend.

 

But the thing is you don't make new friends...

 

And besides, "flirting" creates expectation in your mind...and expectations will f*ck with your head...

[somedude81]

But the thing is you don't make new friends...

That's not relevant here.

 

Either way, the last thing I want to do is be friends with a girl I have some sexual interest in. I've been down that road too many times.

And besides, "flirting" creates expectation in your mind...and expectations will f*ck with your head...

The only expectation I have with flirting is to have fun. It's also a way to push myself out of my comfort zone since it is something I actively have to work at

[USMCHokie]

The only expectation I have with flirting is to have fun. It's also a way to push myself out of my comfort zone since it is something I actively have to work at

 

False. The expectation you'll have is that this girl will flirt back in kind and express interest in you. If she doesn't, then you will be disappointed and regress...and then create another thread about it...

[Teknoe]

The only expectation I have with flirting is to have fun. It's also a way to push myself out of my comfort zone since it is something I actively have to work at

 

If you're looking for a way to push yourself out of your comfort zone, why not work on things that would actually help you become a healthier, more complete person?

 

It's clear learning to have empathy, developing a healthy social circle and even seeking professional help are all things that would push you out of your comfort zone, and these are things you have to actively work on. And, unlike flirting, would actually be productive and a wise use of your time at this stage in your life.

 

But of course, we are wrong and SD81 is right, right? Keep doing things your way...

[Els]

I'm working tomorrow and maybe she is to

 

Great, go for it, good luck.

[zengirl]

If you're looking for a way to push yourself out of your comfort zone, why not work on things that would actually help you become a healthier, more complete person?

 

It's clear learning to have empathy, developing a healthy social circle and even seeking professional help are all things that would push you out of your comfort zone, and these are things you have to actively work on. And, unlike flirting, would actually be productive and a wise use of your time at this stage in your life.

 

But of course, we are wrong and SD81 is right, right? Keep doing things your way...

 

It's also not like the two actions are mutually exclusive. You could certainly flirt AND take the important steps mentioned, SD. Having stronger empathy, better social skills, and understanding other people would only make flirting easier, but it would also enhance your life in ways you cannot even imagine yet.

[somedude81]

At the tail end of the shift.

 

Me: Damn you were crazy busy today

Her: Yeah (explanation for lots of work)

Me: Hey what are you doing after?

Her: Just going home

Me: Want to go get some dinner?

Her: No. You know I have a boyfriend righ?

Me: *Laugh* I didn't have a clue. You were just flirty when we talked.

Her: That's just how I am

 

Mission Complete

 

BTW: Did I mention how there are no available women?