what does I love you mean?

[BetheButterfly]

Hi,

I am a married (12 years) mother of 5 whose world came crashing down at the beginningof this year when after a drunken night awoke to my husband and my married bestfriend mutually masterbating eachother. When I confronted him he confessed that they had been doing this 'stuff' maybe 4 or 5 times and it had never gone any further than touching and kissing (this seems an important distinction 4 him) when they had been drinking. He was extremely sorry for his actions (as was she, both saying that they didn't quite understand why it happened and that under no circumstances would it happen again)

We had many indepth discussions through which I had felt really close to him, and while I have had my meltdowns I felt that I was coping remarkably well. I did (still do) feel that I have no right to stop their friendship and it has taken lots of time and jealous moments (they text/talk/catch up daily) and as niave as it may come across I do believe that they are not persuing a sexual relationship, however there have been times that he has seen her and not told me (I discover this through intuition and questioning him). He no longer deletes her messages and is getting better at full disclosure. My trust levels are still questionable but I am consciously trying.

Our families are closley entwined and I have a close relationship with the husband and her. Our children are all very close and we continually run in the same circles. All this was working well enough for me and I was able to just enjoy being altogether, starting to feel more secure in the relationships BUT last night (for the third time since the incident) my husband has said while cuddling in bed I love you Sarah (her name not mine). This is not good for me or my stability. He doesn't understand why this happens and today I feel broken. I don't know what to do anymore.

 

I am sorry.

 

I think he does have strong feelings for her. I would encourage you to get counseling, and for him to get counseling too. This is very difficult, especially for the children. Divorce could hurt them, but staying married to him could hurt you and thus hurt the children too. You really need counseling,... I am sorry for your pain. I would be absolutely heartbroken if my husband said "I love you" and another person's name while in bed with me. I probably would get very angry and go to my parents' house actually.

 

I would then stipulate for him to get counseling with me before moving back in with him. Ignoring what's going on won't solve the problem.

[Spark1111]

Spark, your words resonate with me . . . lots!

 

I guess I am strong for me, for him, for the kids. For our family that would be mortified. For our friends, for his business. Lots of things really.

 

I am trying to let myself feel it. 'IT' always presents at inopportune times (eg. an overwhelming need to cry 15 minutes before the kids come home from school). I was in IC, but my H has started and we can't really afford it ATM.

 

I don't deny how I feel to him, if thats a start? I am so much better at saying what is wrong or how I am feeling, rather than a 'nothing' or 'I'm tired'.

 

But I am, I am tired. A serious medical diagnosis this week for my H has overtaken everything. It is life changing. I don't want to rug sweep here, but is it time to just suck it up and move on?

 

I am very sorry about your H's diagnosis and hope it will turn out fine.

 

No, you can't suck it up, even if you wanted to. It just doesn't work like that. The inopportune moments will continue....just allow for that and express it.

 

It sounds like you will have even MORE on your plate now as you explore the seriousness of his diagnosis.

 

They are two separate and demanding issues. One is regarding your feelings; the other now, his.

 

Please, please, please do not think your feelings should be lesser to his. Both sets need to be addressed.

 

Of course you are tired! Your life just became even more overwhelming my many more additional levels.

[aussie mum]

Thanks bethebutterfly. I am sorry too - this is not a position I ever thought I would find myself in, and certainly not how I thought I would handle it at all. I appreciate the words of support.

 

Spark, I know that i can't just move on, and that I need to allow myself to heal. I really do appreciate you continuing to post to me - you are wise and I feel akin to you!

 

I guess my biggest point of conflict is that the medical stuff is serious - kidney disease - and it changes all of our lives. Sarah provids/ed him with a lot of support and can do so in a way that I just can't. By no means do I infer sexually here, but as a friend. I cannot support him on my own. He has never had a friend like her. Its tough to know that it is my call to whether or not he has that. . . . I know he made his bed and all of that, but ultimately here it is my decision as my H believes that being friends with her is not an issue for him (side note - I really am trying to just give this time as he has had his first counselling session, and will continue to go).

 

Anyways, brief update. Life throws us these curve balls and I guess we just deal with them the best way we know how.

[uncettecy]

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[Spark1111]

Thanks bethebutterfly. I am sorry too - this is not a position I ever thought I would find myself in, and certainly not how I thought I would handle it at all. I appreciate the words of support.

 

Spark, I know that i can't just move on, and that I need to allow myself to heal. I really do appreciate you continuing to post to me - you are wise and I feel akin to you!

 

I guess my biggest point of conflict is that the medical stuff is serious - kidney disease - and it changes all of our lives. Sarah provids/ed him with a lot of support and can do so in a way that I just can't. By no means do I infer sexually here, but as a friend. I cannot support him on my own. He has never had a friend like her. Its tough to know that it is my call to whether or not he has that. . . . I know he made his bed and all of that, but ultimately here it is my decision as my H believes that being friends with her is not an issue for him (side note - I really am trying to just give this time as he has had his first counselling session, and will continue to go).

 

Anyways, brief update. Life throws us these curve balls and I guess we just deal with them the best way we know how.

 

Ok...a question: HOW does she provide him with support in a way that you cannot and/or never can?

 

Right there iies the entire crux of the matter. He needs to tell you what need she fulfills that you are not fulfilling.

 

IF your spouse is NOT your best friend, one or both of you is doing something wrong.

 

Please examine TOGETHER this statement.

[Artie Lang]

Sarah provids/ed him with a lot of support and can do so in a way that I just can't.

 

i'm confused. you're his wife-- you and the support of his family is all he needs.

 

sorry, but i call BS when i see it.

 

illiness or no illness, this is BS!

[Summer Breeze]

AM I am so sorry you have yet another thing on your plate. I know that no matter how much we tell you to treat them as 2 separate things you won't. At least not yet. At some point the illness will separate itself and you'll have to hit his infidelity head on.

 

My biggest problem is the fact you are being so understanding of their friendship in this time of personal crisis. If you want your husband back then you need to put your foot down now. If you foster, or even merely allow, their friendship at this time you are actually supporting them becoming even closer. If he remains dependent on her for support then their relationship will grow and become deeper. I didn't judge when you said you invited her into your marital bed. I would judge if after all of what's happened, you encourage her relationship with YOUR husband to grow. Illness or not, friendship or not, they should be NC. You're being far too laid back about his need for her in his life. If her support is that meaningful to him then pack your bags and let them have at it. If she is that important to him in this time where it should be you then bow out gracefully and wish them luck.

 

Ill or not your H is a special kind of cheater. He's more cruel to you because he knows how much you want to believe in his better nature. He plays all of your fears and feelings against you. I don't wish illness on anyone but I also don't think illness excuses things someone has done. Being sick doesn't absolve someone of what they've done or give them an excuse to carry it on and make it grow even deeper.

[aussie mum]

Ok...a question: HOW does she provide him with support in a way that you cannot and/or never can?

Spark & Artie - you both reiterated the same things here. I have discussed this with my H. He is flabbergasted that I feel this way. Maybe this is all in my head. He says that he gets everything he needs from me, and that his relationship with her is a friendship, not unlike the relationships that I have with my girlfriends. He is no longer seeing her during working hours (as far as I know) and has made a conscious effort to change things so he is not hurting me.

 

In my head - I believe that she can make him feel better. That she knows how to talk to him and make sense. She knows how to communicate on his level. I don't feel as though I make him happy. I worry that given a choice of a beer at the pub with her versus a beer at the pub with me, he would chose her (he denies this). I feel envious that he would make the time for her, that he couldn't for me. Maybe it is all my thoughts and thinking about it that make it more than it is. It is worth noting that I have felt like this for a long time . . . . prior to any inappropriate behaviours. I spoke to both of them (& the BH) about how their 'catching up' made me feel, then and frequently throughout. I have always put it out there - well, I thought I did.

 

So, perhaps it is me that needs to change the thought patterns that occur. God, that is so tough for me because it is akin to not trusting my instincts late last year (which I also dissected with my H at the time). It so grates me the wrong way. Ugh, why is it that I feel so unstable?

[aussie mum]

Summer breeze, thanks for the post. While its a little harsh, it is my understanding now that it is MY support that he needs. The other stuff is all in my head. I don't believe that it is my H intention to hurt me. I know that he loves me. I know that he doesn't feel the same way about her as he does me.

 

He has never used his illness as an excuse. This is a very new development. I just know that prior to D day, she would have been a crutch for both of us to use, in different ways. Eg. speak to her about how hard it is and how guilty he feels about the extra load I now carry, and the changes our family needs to make. She could hear it, reassure him and have him come home to me in a better frame of mind, as opposed to him telling me all of this and me feeling inadequate as I am unbegrudgingly doing everything I can to make his life easier - and it still isn't enough and so we go on. This is just to give an example. I clearly have some issues to work on. Letting go of things perhaps?? Realising that I am everything a good wife and mother is and that I do actually make him happy. Hard!

[Spark1111]

Ok...a question: HOW does she provide him with support in a way that you cannot and/or never can?

 

Spark & Artie - you both reiterated the same things here. I have discussed this with my H. He is flabbergasted that I feel this way. Maybe this is all in my head. He says that he gets everything he needs from me, and that his relationship with her is a friendship, not unlike the relationships that I have with my girlfriends. He is no longer seeing her during working hours (as far as I know) and has made a conscious effort to change things so he is not hurting me.

 

In my head - I believe that she can make him feel better. That she knows how to talk to him and make sense. She knows how to communicate on his level. I don't feel as though I make him happy. I worry that given a choice of a beer at the pub with her versus a beer at the pub with me, he would chose her (he denies this). I feel envious that he would make the time for her, that he couldn't for me. Maybe it is all my thoughts and thinking about it that make it more than it is. It is worth noting that I have felt like this for a long time . . . . prior to any inappropriate behaviours. I spoke to both of them (& the BH) about how their 'catching up' made me feel, then and frequently throughout. I have always put it out there - well, I thought I did.

 

So, perhaps it is me that needs to change the thought patterns that occur. God, that is so tough for me because it is akin to not trusting my instincts late last year (which I also dissected with my H at the time). It so grates me the wrong way. Ugh, why is it that I feel so unstable?

 

EVERYONE feels highly unstable after discovering their spouse in drunken, mutual masturbation with their best friend.

 

Forgive yourself.

 

Your instincts were apparently spot on, weren't they? And you gave voice to them. But things happened anyway, right?

 

Trust your instincts!!!!!

 

I think now your husband is doubly scared; he may lose you and he is also now fighting a life changing diagnosis.

 

I think he will try to reassure you in any way possible, especially now, that he loves you and is not talking to her during the workday anymore.

 

Support him, have fun with him, but ALWAYS trust your gut. Are you SURE their contact has ended?

 

You sound so beaten. As if, there is now no time to feel your feelings because his situation is so much more immediate.

 

But it is not. Do you have anyone to talk to?

[Artie Lang]

if everyone thought the way your husband thinks, then EA's are OK-- THEY'RE NOT!!!

Edited May 25, 2012 by Artie Lang

[Spark1111]

if everyone thought the way your husband thinks, then EA are OK-- THEY'RE NOT!!!

 

I agree! Take care of you and your five kids and your job. Jeezus, that is enough!

 

Who TAKES care of you? Who makes YOU feel cherished and special and loved?

 

Aussie mom, tomorrow I want you to stop doing and feeling and taking care of the world. I want you to take care of you. I want you to do less for everyone else and do more for you!

 

I want you to grow vulnerable and a just a little selfish. Nurture you.

[Cobber9]

My dear, who's life are you living? Yours or everybody else's? You think kids cant cope with a divorce? Your wrong, they can. You think kids are better off in a marriage where they sense something is wrong for years, or when they live with a mother that has her s**t together, and carries herself with self respect. What would you want your kids to do when their spouses cheat on them when their older? Your inner self comes through in your actions. Divorce with kids takes guts.

 

You have 5 kids? How hard do you work all day to nurture, care, and see after them? And he sees fit to bang something on the side? But when he is sick, he needs you now and he is very sorry? Remember, guilt is for the things we did, and regret is for the things we didn't do right, don't have regret years later for not keeping "you" intact. Your not a martyr.

 

He is sick now, karma is a nasty b**ch.

[Artie Lang]

spot on, Spark.....spot on.

[aussie mum]

I don't know how to be vunerable anymore. Its not something I have ever been good at I guess - throw into that the two people who I have been vunerable with doing what has been done to me. Ugh!

 

I really do appreciate the points of views given. It is productive for me to view things from a different perspective. I am working through this, I don't want it to keep rearing its ugly head and throwing me off course. I don't want the 'I love you Sarah' to happen. Ever. Again.

[2sunny]

I really wish you would let go of worrying about your "image" and "what others will think" - it DOESNT MATTER what anyone else thinks!!!!

 

It matters what you think!

 

And to have that crappy woman still in your lives is just more betrayal. Stop allowing it.

 

And yes, I think your H should move! Even though he's sick. He hasn't embraced letting go of his OW and that's the bottom line - yet you have made that ok by NOT protesting at a LOUD level.

 

If you aren't taking care of YOUR best interest - then how can you offer your best to others? You must look after YOU first.

 

Your H still hasn't had many consequences from YOU!

 

And now you think it's important to allow OW to support him through his illness- F@ck NO! That's YOUR ROLE!!!!!

 

Stop willingly handing her your role of intimate partner!

 

No wonder he says her name in his sleep - you've allowed her the intimate role that is sacredly coveted by wives.

 

She's a third party in the M - so the betrayal is still happening.

 

No more contact!

 

And yes, tell her husband - she needs consequences too! Who cares what others think? YOU didn't do it - THEY did!

 

Let them explain their bad behavior!

 

You hold your head up and stop the pretending.

 

He's broken the trust. You deserve to be loved and honored - he's still not doing that! He's not doing everything he possibly can to earn your trust back. Only enough so you don't leave - but not enough so he doesn't lose his OW.

 

He's a classic cake eater. You have made it easier for him to continue by not having a solid boundary and by not giving him severe and quick consequences.

 

HE'S made it this way with HIS choices - but every choice has repercussions.

 

If he won't end his contact with her FOREVER - id divorce him! Illness or no illness - he has no morals.

Edited May 25, 2012 by 2sunny

[Spark1111]

Tonight in your sleep I want you to murmur a man's name. "Artie" might do nicely.

 

I want you to divest yourself of all the things you feel total responsibility for, and start being a woman a man would rather take to a pub. You need you back.

 

I want you to buy a cowboy hat, some sexy boots and schedule country line dancing classes you attend alone.

 

Something unexpected and out of character for you.

 

I think, no, I know, men choose a mate that, if they are somewhat immature, they wind up turning into their mother: Someone hyper-responsible, a great and caring mother; a woman who takes care of hearth and home......and then they grow bored with her and start to flirt with the neighbors or friends.

 

Raise your level of difficulty, vulnerability, sexuality. Do not ever let your H forget you are a woman first with needs and desires and opinions. Voice them.Be less supportive, less malleable. He will respect you more.

 

Aussie mom, aussie woman is in there somewhere. Find her and never let her go.

[2sunny]

Tell me - how does an illness justify staying with a man who has purposely disrespected and disregarded you?

 

Illness or not - it doesn't eliminate what he has done.

 

That's HIS to deal with at this point. Maybe his OW will step in to be his caretaker - since she seems to provide for him what he won't allow you to.

 

And what happens when he gets well? He will still be the same cheater at the core of his character.

 

Unless you BOTH cut them out completely and tell both families the reason WHY there's to be NO MORE CONTACT - you are allowing your husband to continue to cheat!

 

He either chooses you or her TODAY! That would be my line in the sand! IF he even hesitates to answer - he'd be out by dark!

 

He's sick, yes. But he should have thought about this mess that he has created - and continues to fuel by communicating intimately with HER instead of you!

 

There's no marriage - he's acting married to HER!