Author aussie mum Posted May 2, 2012 Author Posted May 2, 2012 woinlove - I hear what you are saying, thanks for your post and trying to rephrase what others have said! My husband is in so much denial about how he feels about her and about what their relationship is, or rather is not (as in just good friends). I am under no illusions that this will take lots of time to work through and I believe that you are right and that he will have to go through a period of grief etc. I grieved for both of my relationships already. PNC - I have sought counselling and she has been very helpful, although I haven't seen her for awhile. My H has been strongly against MC as he thinks he is just going to be blamed for everything. I will continue to ask for this but believe that IC for him will be more beneficial at this time. I know how I feel - he believes he does, but actions and words - not adding up. I really like the idea of slowly severing ties - and in lots of ways I have done this. Our contact has diminished greatly. I also understand that she is not my BF, but I feel weird writing XBF. AL - No, I haven't spelt out the truth in its entirety - we have has numerous discussions (mostly pre D day) about this though and I have given him plenty of information without divulging details. I have arranged to meet with the OBS Friday for a chat. Shall see how I go . . . .
Leigh 87 Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 I am not married, but I am in love, and I could NEVER be friends after they touched my husband, much less in the same house as me. I know you have kids together and it is a huge deal to leave. I would be too devastated to be intimate and close to him, and it must be hell having to live in the same house as him, because of the children..... I think it sounds logical for some affairs to be a one off thing; IF the offender is very remorseful, and tell u how much they love u, are totally in love with u, and cannot imagine being with out u.... if they BEGGED and begged for another chance with u, after u ignored them and gave them a chance to think about what they did. PERHAPS it could work out if it were me. MAYBE.
woinlove Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 (edited) woinlove - I hear what you are saying, thanks for your post and trying to rephrase what others have said! My husband is in so much denial about how he feels about her and about what their relationship is, or rather is not (as in just good friends). I am under no illusions that this will take lots of time to work through and I believe that you are right and that he will have to go through a period of grief etc. I grieved for both of my relationships already. PNC - I have sought counselling and she has been very helpful, although I haven't seen her for awhile. My H has been strongly against MC as he thinks he is just going to be blamed for everything. I will continue to ask for this but believe that IC for him will be more beneficial at this time. I know how I feel - he believes he does, but actions and words - not adding up. I really like the idea of slowly severing ties - and in lots of ways I have done this. Our contact has diminished greatly. I also understand that she is not my BF, but I feel weird writing XBF. AL - No, I haven't spelt out the truth in its entirety - we have has numerous discussions (mostly pre D day) about this though and I have given him plenty of information without divulging details. I have arranged to meet with the OBS Friday for a chat. Shall see how I go . . . . Re the bolded, this seems like a very immature reaction. Blame is not so relevant, it is taking responsibility for one's own actions, words, decisions. It sounds like your H is a far from being able to take responsibility for himself. Also, what can be more important than building, maintaing, rebuilding,... a M that is mutually supportive and satisfying? Your H seems to want to avoid issues, just have this disappear, and that is usually a prescription for a vulnerable M. I hope you can convince him that having a strong and successful M is more important than not accepting responsibility or looking like the good guy. I also hope he is not so opposed to MC because he is still lying and engaged with the OW. Good luck with your meeting with the OBS. I encourage you to be honest, because in these situations the truth is difficult to get and it is so hard to be moving forward, toward the life you want, when you are working with a deception rather than reality. Edited May 2, 2012 by woinlove
Artie Lang Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 (edited) My husband is in so much denial about how he feels about her and about what their relationship is, or rather is not (as in just good friends). this is why you need to knock him off the fence-sitting. he needs to decide who is going to be in his life-- RIGHT NOW! as of now, you're giving him a pass to indulge in his fantasy, while being safe and secure in the marriage-- WRONG! My H has been strongly against MC as he thinks he is just going to be blamed for everything. you must demand it from him. these are necessary stipulations to fix the relationship. something is wrong with him, so he must come to terms with this in therapy. actions and words - not adding up. no doubt. this is because you haven't DEMANDED anything from him.....you haven't pushed him to act. you're waiting for the light bulb to go off in is head. what are you waiting for? I also understand that she is not my BF, but I feel weird writing XBF. you're in shock. you're still processing the events that have transpired. believe me when i tell you-- SHE IS NO FRIEND!!! look aussiemom, i'm not here to bash you. i'm here let you know you're going about this all wrong. you need to affair-proof your marriage-- NOW! you need to act. this has gone on long enough under wraps, and you've seen no progress as to the future of your relationship. these two people are skating by, while you and the other BS are in limbo. there needs to be a massive shake up to wake them from their fantasyland. you go to any other forum and they will tell you the same thing i am. exposure and NC are a must when trying to salvage a marriage that has been affected by infidelity. good luck. Edited May 2, 2012 by Artie Lang 1
Spark1111 Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 aussie mom.....In IC we vent, cry, remember and learn about ourselves and our feelings. There is no right or wrong way to feel. In MC, the marriage is the client, and since there is no perfect marriage, no one is blamed, no one is exonnerated. KWIM? A good counselor is not going to get very far by blaming any partner in a marriage. I really hope your H reconsiders. He should not judge what he does not know may have the very real potential to help the marriage.
Author aussie mum Posted May 3, 2012 Author Posted May 3, 2012 Spark1111 - I know what you mean. I get it, just convincing him of it is a little different. I have had some IC and he apparently will 'go & speak to that chick' (the counsellor). Its a waiting game. I imagine that after he is done talking we will need some MC. I am fully aware that a blame game is not going to get us anywhere. Thanks for your post! AL- You are exactly right, I am (was) waiting for the lightbulb to go off in his head. . . . and perhaps you are correct and it is never going to (well not any time soon but he has been given a very small window of opportunity to undergo some counselling and begin his soul searching - or he leaves, that has been made VERY clear.) I know that you are not trying to bash me . . . and appreciate you continuing to press me. You speak as though you have had some experience with this kind of thing. Another point of 'rightness', she is not a friend. Leigh87 thanks for your input. He does say/do those things. I just don't quite believe it ATM but the thing is he does (believe it) It is not until I spell out why I don't that he understands'ish. Then I tend to get lumped with self loathing and all that fun stuff! How warped is all of this? This is so NOT a situation that I thought I would find myself in . . . . ever! woinlove - you speak wise words and I feel everything that you have said. Thanks for the good wishes for my meeting with the OBS. I'm nervous. It is kind of nice to feel as though there are other people out there who get what I am going through but have no emotional investment in it. I guess it allows for honest feedback!
Artie Lang Posted May 3, 2012 Posted May 3, 2012 (edited) the thing is Aussie, you have to reclaim your marriage. you have to be pro-active. by taking these steps, you will find out where your marriage is headed. i mean seriously, you don't want to be in limbo for an extended period of time. nowhere do i see your husband doing anything positive, in trying to fix the damage. he's out there in a catatonic state still trying to decide where his head is at. it's high time he starts acting like a man, and make some decisons.-- MAN-UP, ALREADY! he has a family hanging in the balance, here. you've been most patient with him. it's time you drop the hammer and wake his ass up. as to the OBS.....yes, it's going to be nerve-racking. no one said it's easy to pain a friend with such a revelation, but it must be done. believe it or not, i'm pullin' for you. my thoughts are with you and your family. much luck. Edited May 3, 2012 by Artie Lang
Summer Breeze Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 Thanks jnjexpress, but I really do not believe he is a loser. I believe he is a little lost. IC will help him a lot, and I stay because I took a vow, for better or for worse. I never realised just how seriously I took that vow. I want my marriage to work. My D day has opened the channels of communication between the two of us. It bought some long standing issues to the forefront and I believe, (hope, whatever) that it is an opportunity to take our marriage by the horns and shape it into something that works for both of us. (I would rather not have had this happen, just incase that is a thought!) We are still learning, after 12 years of marriage. I do know however, that I cannot live in a marriage where my H can say 'I love you Sarah' to me. Only he can control this - and at the expense of repeating myself he needs to understand why it happened in order for him to take control. I am not 'waiting' on him. I am a strong, independant, professional person who strives to provide a stable and caring home for our children, who has a supportive network of friends (although most don't actually know what is going on in my marriage entirely. Most are aware that we are having some issues. I do love this man, and I sincerely believe that he doesn't intend to hurt me. Hence why he needs to sort out his sh#t and that involves a lot (realising feelings etc, making choices, letting go of fear, guilt etc) I do feel a littel misunderstood . . . . mainly because I really didn't think I was doormat material. I know what I deserve, and while it is better than I am recieving at the moment, if he is working on himself, is it not ok to ride it out? It is a process and we are 4 months into it. Deal breakers for me - non disclosure of ANY contact, or if he was to call me her name again. Anyhoo, my question last night to myself was I am honestly able to live with a man who is 'in love' with two women? Regarding the bolded---at this point I'd put more value on their communication ending rather than yours growing.
Summer Breeze Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 I've been thinking a lot about this thread. So here I am to poke the elephant in the room. Were you all in the same room, bed, hotel? I can't figure out how you were all in such close proximity that you saw them playing with each other. Were you on holiday? I'm really lost as to how real live grownups actually do something like this. First year university students maybe but middle aged people with 8 or 10 kids between them? You make mention you don't want to have gossip and pity surround you if the A comes out. Have you thought maybe it's there already? I'm guessing there's some serious boundary crossing going on all over the place and you may be one of the last to know. Not trying to be mean here. I'm sincerely curious about the first paragraph and seriously wonder if you've thouht about the possibility of the second.
Author aussie mum Posted May 5, 2012 Author Posted May 5, 2012 Summer breeze - you are right, I new to place more value on their communication ending. I honestly (somewhat naively) thought that things could return to normal, particularly as they both maintained that the physical stuff changed nothing for them as it meant nothing etc. Clearly I know different now. In regards to your second post, yep it had definatly crossed my mind that people may be talking about us anyway. I think what had made this ok, was that we presented a united front - We openly supported their relationships and they ours. People talk, gossip whatever. It hadn't really bothered me (in fact there were times when we may have played up to it a little) when it was all rumour. Maybe this explains why the community side plays a part for me now. Because now I am the fool. Paragraph 1, she and her 2 children came to join us on our camping holiday, for 2 nights over the Christmas break. We have a big tent and they just shared ours. Her bed had deflated - it was late at night (my H had already gone to bed, we had stayed up sharing a few drinks and solving the problems of the world - as you do!) and we had no way of reinflating at that point in time. It didn't seem like a big deal as I had spent nights sharing a bed with her, when we have taken the kids away or whatever, and she plonked into ours with us. Clearly worst decision of my life. Should not have been a big deal but obviously turned out to be. Of course I feel a level of responsibility. Imagine I had've said no. I expect to receive some negative feedback here in terms of what were u thinking etc. I did not foresee an issue - it was just a 'meh, where else are u gonna sleep' kind of thing. Judge away!! AL - I appreciate your support and I do respect what you have said. Sometimes it is hard to hear (read!). Yes he needs to man up. Yes he has a lot at stake. That is becoming more and more obvious to him. I am standing firm. He is not liking it at all and it breaks my heart to see him in pain (bought about by his actions and choices, I know this . . . But it is hard nevertheless). I can't fix this for him and know I am doing the right thing interns of pushing him to confront the issues. I talked to the OBS yesterday. It went well. The focus was more on current issues and you know what, I do feel as though I have an ally. He completely understands how I feel and will be talking to his W about it (a little hurt he was too given she had not old him. She has known for a week this had happened). I KNOW that he deserves to know the complete truth and i will not Lie to him if/when he broaches the subject with me. My H knows what I have told his BF and he does not like it all. I feel that I did the right thing.
soserious1 Posted May 5, 2012 Posted May 5, 2012 Aussie mum, All i can say is that you are a much better woman than I am & I am so sorry you are going through this.
Artie Lang Posted May 5, 2012 Posted May 5, 2012 of course it's hard, Aussie. no one wants to be entangled in these types of situations. furthermore, no one wants to be the bearer of bad news. your husband needs to start doing the "heavy-lifting" here. you have given him plenty of space and opportunity to try and salvage the marriage of his own volition: to no avail. he's dragging his feet on this.....doing the least bit possible. how much longer can you wait for a decision? you have a right to know where your marriage is headed. what did you tell OBS, exactly? It sounds like you withheld some information. if his wife hasn't told him yet, she's liable to do some damage control by minimizing it-- not giving him the full account. and yes, you did the right thing.
findingnemo Posted May 5, 2012 Posted May 5, 2012 I agree with AL. You did the right thing, Aussie mum. It's time your H started doing his part. It seems to me you're paying the price for the situation and that is very unfair. However, I do like your approach which is based on keeping your family intact.
Author aussie mum Posted May 8, 2012 Author Posted May 8, 2012 I've fallen in a hole. I am flat, teary and exhausted. I have nothing to say anymore. I feel like a big ball of hurt.
Artie Lang Posted May 8, 2012 Posted May 8, 2012 (edited) take your time to gather yourself, aussie. maybe you can elaborate on your current situation, later. Edited May 8, 2012 by Artie Lang 1
Steen719 Posted May 8, 2012 Posted May 8, 2012 I've fallen in a hole. I am flat, teary and exhausted. I have nothing to say anymore. I feel like a big ball of hurt. Yeah, you were so strong; it was bound to come out sooner or later. Give yourself some time to cry and realize that you deserve to. Your entire life as you knew it has changed and you will have to rebuild it. You have a lot of strength, though. You have to not blame yourself. H did this and your best frenemy. Artie is right. Take some time. This may take a long time, but you will feel even a little better soon and that will help you deal. HUGS to you, aussie mum. 1
PeineDeCoeur Posted May 8, 2012 Posted May 8, 2012 I've fallen in a hole. I am flat, teary and exhausted. I have nothing to say anymore. I feel like a big ball of hurt. Give yourself a break!!! You are not a robot and it takes time to process these things. I think sometimes when life hits you in the a**, we fall back on our busy routines with work and kids and let the automatic pilot take over. This can be good, but it also means you are deferring dealing with your pain. Take some time to FEEL it. You've been strong, and you've carried a lot. Try to lean on others for support if you can. Get back to therapy. Hugs, aussie mum. 2
Summer Breeze Posted May 8, 2012 Posted May 8, 2012 Summer breeze - you are right, I new to place more value on their communication ending. I honestly (somewhat naively) thought that things could return to normal, particularly as they both maintained that the physical stuff changed nothing for them as it meant nothing etc. Clearly I know different now. In regards to your second post, yep it had definatly crossed my mind that people may be talking about us anyway. I think what had made this ok, was that we presented a united front - We openly supported their relationships and they ours. People talk, gossip whatever. It hadn't really bothered me (in fact there were times when we may have played up to it a little) when it was all rumour. Maybe this explains why the community side plays a part for me now. Because now I am the fool. No. You are not the fool. You are no such thing. You may have been too trusting and let boundaries get crossed but you are not a fool. I think it's sad that public perception wasn't something you worried about when you were confident but now that it's reality it hurts. You are not a fool. You have been treated ridiculously badly (how's that for a word combo) by 2 people you still want to protect. Are they worthy of you protecting them? Paragraph 1, she and her 2 children came to join us on our camping holiday, for 2 nights over the Christmas break. We have a big tent and they just shared ours. Her bed had deflated - it was late at night (my H had already gone to bed, we had stayed up sharing a few drinks and solving the problems of the world - as you do!) and we had no way of reinflating at that point in time. It didn't seem like a big deal as I had spent nights sharing a bed with her, when we have taken the kids away or whatever, and she plonked into ours with us. Clearly worst decision of my life. Should not have been a big deal but obviously turned out to be. Of course I feel a level of responsibility. Imagine I had've said no. I expect to receive some negative feedback here in terms of what were u thinking etc. I did not foresee an issue - it was just a 'meh, where else are u gonna sleep' kind of thing. Judge away!! I don't understand that but I'm not going to judge you. I just hope you take the lessons with you. I judge them. How fu*king unbelievable cruel are they? They do that to you in a bed you're sleeping in and in a tent where walls are hardly going to keep noises away from the kids. These two are a pair and a half. AL - I appreciate your support and I do respect what you have said. Sometimes it is hard to hear (read!). Yes he needs to man up. Yes he has a lot at stake. That is becoming more and more obvious to him. I am standing firm. He is not liking it at all and it breaks my heart to see him in pain (bought about by his actions and choices, I know this . . . But it is hard nevertheless). I can't fix this for him and know I am doing the right thing interns of pushing him to confront the issues. I talked to the OBS yesterday. It went well. The focus was more on current issues and you know what, I do feel as though I have an ally. He completely understands how I feel and will be talking to his W about it (a little hurt he was too given she had not old him. She has known for a week this had happened). I KNOW that he deserves to know the complete truth and i will not Lie to him if/when he broaches the subject with me. My H knows what I have told his BF and he does not like it all. I feel that I did the right thing. My responses in bold.
Summer Breeze Posted May 8, 2012 Posted May 8, 2012 I've fallen in a hole. I am flat, teary and exhausted. I have nothing to say anymore. I feel like a big ball of hurt. You have nothing to say right now but I have an idea you'll be roaring like a lion soon. Lick your wounds right now and get yourself together. We'll be waiting for you when you're back. 1
Spark1111 Posted May 8, 2012 Posted May 8, 2012 I've fallen in a hole. I am flat, teary and exhausted. I have nothing to say anymore. I feel like a big ball of hurt. Aussie mom....thinking of you and wishing you peace of any kind right now. We're here if you need us. {{{{HUGS!}}}} 1
Author aussie mum Posted May 11, 2012 Author Posted May 11, 2012 Thanks for the words of support and *hugs*. I really did have a terrible start to the week mentally and emotionally. This is such a hard situation to be in . . . its exhausting. Thats when it becomes easier to just revert to 'normal' and doing what I do. My H has been struggling these past couple of weeks as he feels I have shut down from him and am no longer communicating (Communicating/sharing is what I do, so I guess this carries some weight for him) Mind you, this has not been deliberate on my part. I am just so bloody tired and I have nothing to say. He speaks and there is not even thoughts floating around - I listen but have NO reaction. I literally have nothing to say. Summer breeze, ridiculously badly is an apt combo! I am strong - but I wonder if I am letting myself really feel this. . . . Hard to know I guess. Usually I don't dwell, I verbalise and move on once I am heard. This is not working for me now though. I feel as though I am going around in circles. In some ways I am. My H has an appoint for IC next week and he needs it. He is angry ATM and he desperately needs to talk to someone (clearly other than the OW). I am worried about his mental health. He is a good person (some bad choices yes, but a good person). You know whats hard, I always worry about everyone else. Its almost like a reflex for me. Maybe it is my coping mechanism but I realise I need to look after me. This is challenging. I don't really know how to put myself first, or I guess what that really even means . . .
Spark1111 Posted May 11, 2012 Posted May 11, 2012 Thanks for the words of support and *hugs*. I really did have a terrible start to the week mentally and emotionally. This is such a hard situation to be in . . . its exhausting. Thats when it becomes easier to just revert to 'normal' and doing what I do. My H has been struggling these past couple of weeks as he feels I have shut down from him and am no longer communicating (Communicating/sharing is what I do, so I guess this carries some weight for him) Mind you, this has not been deliberate on my part. I am just so bloody tired and I have nothing to say. He speaks and there is not even thoughts floating around - I listen but have NO reaction. I literally have nothing to say. Summer breeze, ridiculously badly is an apt combo! I am strong - but I wonder if I am letting myself really feel this. . . . Hard to know I guess. Usually I don't dwell, I verbalise and move on once I am heard. This is not working for me now though. I feel as though I am going around in circles. In some ways I am. My H has an appoint for IC next week and he needs it. He is angry ATM and he desperately needs to talk to someone (clearly other than the OW). I am worried about his mental health. He is a good person (some bad choices yes, but a good person). You know whats hard, I always worry about everyone else. Its almost like a reflex for me. Maybe it is my coping mechanism but I realise I need to look after me. This is challenging. I don't really know how to put myself first, or I guess what that really even means . . . I too am (was?) an intellectual verbalizer who never allowed myself to dwell too long on anything....including my OWN feelings. Denying them, for the good of others as I was always viewed as the "strong, resourceful one," led to small bouts of listlessness and unrecognized, unadmitted depression. I went to IC and reccommend you do the same/continue. It took me a long time for my emotions to catch up with my intellect after the affair, and the disconnect was scary. Sometimes, it took me two days to identify and process what I was feeling because I had not been allowed to "feel" too much of anything negative, starting in childhood. (ahhh...where it all starts.) I was always the calm, bright, funny one who could talk circles (defense mechanism) , empathize with others (to a fault) and entertain rather that FEEL something sad, or scary, or overwhelming. I only mention this because you remind me of me a week or two after dday. Anger, crying pain, (foreign emotions to those of us who are always so silently strong) are a welcoming change, a NORMAL reaction to betrayal. Who do you have to be strong for (other than your kids, of course)? He's angry???????????????????????????????????????? YOU should be hurling figurative plates around his head right now. YOU should be off the charts right now. You should be the diva in this scenario, not the understanding, protective maternal figure in his life. STOP intellectualizing your feelings. BTDT. It makes you sicker, more depressed, and crazier than letting 'em rip. Cuz they will....better sooner than later. Stop denying what YOU FEEL.
Author aussie mum Posted May 18, 2012 Author Posted May 18, 2012 Spark, your words resonate with me . . . lots! I guess I am strong for me, for him, for the kids. For our family that would be mortified. For our friends, for his business. Lots of things really. I am trying to let myself feel it. 'IT' always presents at inopportune times (eg. an overwhelming need to cry 15 minutes before the kids come home from school). I was in IC, but my H has started and we can't really afford it ATM. I don't deny how I feel to him, if thats a start? I am so much better at saying what is wrong or how I am feeling, rather than a 'nothing' or 'I'm tired'. But I am, I am tired. A serious medical diagnosis this week for my H has overtaken everything. It is life changing. I don't want to rug sweep here, but is it time to just suck it up and move on?
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