He agreed no sex to estblsh trust...now what?

[ariadne999]

Girls don't put out themselves to BF material guy.

(Oh I will take slowly with this guy since he is my BF type. I don't mind banging this other guy tonight though. He is not a serious type)

 

This is the difference between men and women.

 

 

Men can have sex without getting attatched.

 

 

Women can only selectivly do this. We can have casual sex w/o getting attatched IF we feel the guy is not a suitable partner. If he has potential, we wait so we don't fall in love too fast which causes problems for everyone involved.

 

 

WHy don't men realize that we do this to protect ourselves, not to punish you. It's "I can bang this guy, he's a loser and I'll be happy when he leaves. I can't bang potential BF cos I will fall in love after 2 dates, and become a crazy stalker chick. Or get hurt or or or etc"

 

 

 

But men don't get it because men are selfish idiots and everything is about YOU. It's not women protecting our hearts it's women punishing men. cos life is so hard for you poor things with penises

 

 

 

 

Edited April 23, 2012 by ariadne999

[threebyfate]

What gender is his mentor?

[chimneychamp]

WHy don't men realize that we do this to protect ourselves, not to punish you. It's "I can bang this guy, he's a loser and I'll be happy when he leaves. I can't bang potential BF cos I will fall in love after 2 dates, and become a crazy stalker chick. Or get hurt or or or etc"

 

 

 

But men don't get it because men are selfish idiots and everything is about YOU. It's not women protecting our hearts it's women punishing men. cos life is so hard for you poor things with penises

 

Why buy the cow when some loser is already juicing it for free?

[musemaj11]

This is the difference between men and women.

 

Men can have sex without getting attatched.

 

Women can only selectivly do this. We can have casual sex w/o getting attatched IF we feel the guy is not a suitable partner. If he has potential, we wait so we don't fall in love too fast which causes problems for everyone involved.

 

WHy don't men realize that we do this to protect ourselves, not to punish you. It's "I can bang this guy, he's a loser and I'll be happy when he leaves. I can't bang potential BF cos I will fall in love after 2 dates, and become a crazy stalker chick. Or get hurt or or or etc"

 

But men don't get it because men are selfish idiots and everything is about YOU. It's not women protecting our hearts it's women punishing men. cos life is so hard for you poor things with penises

 

Thats like a guy who will give the slutty girl he has no respect for lavish treatment because he only wants her for now while he treats the good girl he wants a future with with cautiousness and refuses to spend a single penny on her because he wants to make sure she is long term potential.

 

How would you feel when you meet a guy like that? How would you feel if the guy you are seeing won't spend anything on you while knowing that he splurged on the bitches he dated before you?

[FitChick]

What gender is his mentor?

 

That's what I was wondering. And have you actually seen or met him (or her)?

 

My first thought was that he was screwing his mentor and wanted to get his degree before dumping her.

[ScienceGal]

It sounds to me like you need to become more stable as an individual before entering into a relationship. We all have some level of anxiety or insecurity, but you have to be able to stand on your own two feet when things fall apart. All relationships are a risk, today and 80 days from now. I don't believe pulling a number out of a hat and waiting that many days to have sex is going to make this relationship any more successful than the next. This whole story reeks of instabliity.

 

Also, his "deficits" don't seem like deficits at all. It seems like he is trying to live his own life and you are clingy/needy. At the end of the day though, you

really just need to do what feels natural and comfortable to you.

 

Good luck.

[dispatch3d]

Thank you so much ProfX for relating to me...Yes exactly in a prior thread I said "it may not end well but at least I am learning about trade-offs and interpersonal effectiveness in the process...also i'll maintain my own self-respect by keeping it more of a platonic love so waiting and seeing if his temporary issue resolves wont be so traumatic for me in this case if he doesn't actually resolve it in a couple of weeks...TBD"

 

The reality is that his mentor is some hella big wig in his field and considers my guy his golden MIT nugget of publications....so while I totally agree with you it's not his business the mentor has a different opinion from all of us Also, I am hopeful my guy wants this to be temporary really but I see how his mentor is calling him 24/7 I watch as he is calling him to meet in the lab on Saturday morning while we're still in bed and then he makes him have a weekly adviser meeting every single Sunday morning so he never really sleeps in (Saturdays are his only real chance) believe me his doctoral mentor really is UP his ass BUT i am not putting blinders on I promise that's why im just sitting back and observing my guy's actions beyond his words of not wanting to be secret or promising this is only temporary until after he presents...so far his actions are consistent with interest here are some examples:

 

1. if i tell him to change something he does opening car doors all the time now

2. if i tell him i want gifts he does it brings me chocolates and balloons that say i love you

3. if i tried to break up with him he finds time to sit down and discuss for hours if need be my insecurities and how we can work through them together

4. he tries to learn about my past relationship experiences to better relate to me

5. he maintains constant communication if im busy for two weeks he'll be sure to call me at least every other day to talk 30-45 mins

6. if i text him he'll respond within 8-10 mins

7. if i call him he will always pick up the phone

8. he is consistent in telling me his feelings for me when i feel insecure and giving me encouragement if i feel academically stressed out

9. he holds me all night every time i spend the night as if for dear life lol

10. he lets me decide where we will go on a date and always pays

 

but i am not blind to some deficits as well

 

1. he can be emotionally unavailable if he gets a work-related phone call (i put my ear to his phone and hear who is talking to confirm)

2. i counted his condom stash and they are not depleting (deficit of trust) what woman would do this!?!

3. he'll answer a phone call at dinner ...

4. he has to rush off on sunday mornings if i stay over so we can never have brunch together other than on saturdays

5. his adviser wakes us both up on saturday mornings

6. he appears to want to travel with me but each time we cant due to his work

7. when we eat dinner i sometimes feel like a "shutup and look beautiful" type of girl for him b/c our conversations are superficial unless we are in the privacy of the house

8. he went to a party without me

9. he visits his friends homes for meals without me

10. he will travel for summer holiday abroad without me

 

haha I literally lol'd at this. Are you a math nerd? The overanalyzing is just super awesome ;-). Anyhow you are the definition of cautious I think. I'm pretty sure it's possible to (A) have sex (B) be a couple © not tell all of academia you are in a relationship (D) Not do this 80 day thing to establish sure-fire trust. Anyhow, chill out. I think your back and forth breaking up with him was probably without actual merit for what its worth....

[dispatch3d]

More stable of an individual? She's getting a phd haha she's probably a pretty stable individual.

[ScienceGal]

More stable of an individual? She's getting a phd haha she's probably a pretty stable individual.

 

I never said she isn't intelligent. I was commenting on her self-proclaimed inability to trust and reluctance to believe he could be that "good". I also found the list to be a bit much. I actually completely relate to what she is feeling. She either isn't ready, or the situation just isn't right.

 

No one should settle for feeling less than wonderful.

[dollface07]

@ dispatch3d & ScienceGal you both are so wonderful hehe no im actually in biomedical sciences dealing with population health and he's biomedical engineering so we really don't have all that much in common academically speaking b/c he's dealing with i guess nanotech and drug diffusion...but i am pretty analytical however biostats never came easy to me!

 

okay as for the stable individual comment I do have a different opinion I am stable in the sense that i am emotionally regulated that i dont have any overwhelming emotions or intrusive thoughts or inability to academically achieve or anything BUT it is true that I have self-proclaimed trust issues b/c i feel reluctant to radically accept the inevitable potential to be hurt...but either way i spoke with him tonight and he could tell im "different" somehow b/c i refrained from being all loveydovey and I am just meeting his affections equally so as not to have any lop-sided bonding...loveshack is seriously helping me set healthy limits with him okay his academic mentor is a MAN they are NOT sleeping together hehe

 

As per my over-analyzing it's a mal-adaptive coping mechanism to attempt to gain some sort of sense of control over a uncertain outcome to a situation that's near to my heart but i am SO glad to have amused you have a lovely evening!

[Emilia]

I think you are ok OP but I also think you would be better off dating outside this repressive environment. It's what I would do. There are plenty of men around who are not so uptight and controlling.

[Pierre]

DF07

 

I did not have intercourse with my ex-wife when I first met her because she was a young virgin and wanted to remain a virgin. However, we did "everything else" under the sun and I survived.

 

OP: Intellectual types are not like your typical blue collar young stud that wants to f****k anything that moves. Furthermore, it is possible he is enjoying this game you have set up. It seems you were the one that wanted no sex right away so he is giving you an overdose of your own medicine. In any event, don't sweat the sex. It is much better to have sex with someone you knew well over a long courting period than having sex right away.

 

My only concern is the secrecy issue.

 

Is this guy in the seminary and studying to be a priest or a minister? That would be the only academic career that may require some form of celibacy.

 

Could this guy be married?

[dollface07]

I do not prefer to live in the past, I love to cherish the present moment knowing that tomorrow is not promised to us and that we should fully appreciate the moment that is in our hand. I promised you that I would no longer attempt to break up over things that could potentially be sorted out—I really meant it.

 

What all happened to me in my prior relationship that I told you about is the cause of why I react so strongly, so powerfully and so deeply in response to certain events occurring in our relationship; this is not fair to you and I have to take ownership for my lack of trust and not project this onto you.

 

When I am with you I am the happiest ever, but when we are apart I intensely struggle with trusting you and your near-future intentions with me because of my own lived experiences that cause me not to fully trust combined with your decision for us to remain a secret.

 

I don’t want you to feel that I am too sensitive or that I am never satisfied, believe me I’ve noticed everything you’ve done I am so truly appreciative for all of the things that you have done up until this point to show your feelings and respect for me. I sense that you are a really wonderful man and any woman in the world would be so lucky to have such a handsome, clever and considerate man such as you in her life.

 

I know that you are in a critical time in your doctoral program and will most likely remain so until you complete this phd milestone in your life.

 

When we had our dinner together and you seemed to not really mind all that much if I went abroad for three months, at that moment, I realized that you are in an entirely different place than I am in terms of the importance we are placing on our interaction together—and that’s a very dangerous place for me to be because it could lead to disproportionate bonding. I can respect this however because until you successfully complete your phd goals everything else is on the peripheral of your life—I respect this because I am the same goal oriented independently minded person—neither of us would have made it this far in life each on our own without this mentality and without major sacrifices . But realizing that you weren’t as interested as I was to spend what little time we could manage to spend together (once or two times a week during May & June) to strengthen our interaction together was a very humbling stark realization moment .

 

Given that we are in entirely different places in terms of the importance being placed on our interaction together; given that it would be unreasonable for me to expect you to do anything more than what you have already done to show that you are a constant, faithful and trustworthy person; given your strong preference to shield your mentor from knowing about your personal life; given your admittedly being so “relaxed” about things; given your critical moment in your phd program and given my trust issues (which I am independently working on); I wouldn't even know where to start to begin reconciling any of the aforementioned "givens" to ensure the successful continuation of a potential relationship together.

 

I am not breaking up with you, but I would urge you to seriously reconsider your motivation for continuing a relationship with me. I would encourage you to take a few moments out of your extremely exhausting and busy life to take an honest inventory about the feasibility of being able to ever practically even begin to sort out any of these “givens” otherwise things will only get more challenging to address as we move forward.

 

Thank you for taking the time to read this letter.

[dollface07]

@ Pierre

 

My concern is the secrecy issue as well he says its temporary and only until June after he presents but honestly Pierre this is why I wrote him the letter I just posted. I will update you on his response, I am not afraid to lose someone that I just can't fully trust anyway. thank you for taking the time to give me your opinion by the way.

[dollface07]

So we met and I apologized for having to break my promise to not break up with him BUT I told him being a secret was a behavior that I cannot tolerate.

 

He did object but after all was said and done I broke up with him in order to stick to my values of what I could or could not accept in a relationship.

 

Within a few hours he called and discovered I was living my life, eating dinner with mutual acquaintances and he was pretty surprised. Within one more hour he called me again professing his love asking me to clearly define our relationship...and he FINALLY admit why he prefers to keep our relationship a secret until June b/c until he presents the proposal to his committee he is just too busy to go public because going public means professional dinners with people in the academic community and double dates and other outings with his friends; he also added that his mentor is a conservative man.

 

In any case, he finally told me many times that he loved me and made it clear that I am the best girl he's ever met in his life. SO, I will keep my heart at a healthy distance, continue to not have a sexual relationship with him until we go public and just stay patient until June.

 

Thanks you all for helping me through all of this...I guess my next update should be in June!

 

Df:love:

[Professor X]

So we met and I apologized for having to break my promise to not break up with him BUT I told him being a secret was a behavior that I cannot tolerate.

 

He did object but after all was said and done I broke up with him in order to stick to my values of what I could or could not accept in a relationship.

 

Within a few hours he called and discovered I was living my life, eating dinner with mutual acquaintances and he was pretty surprised. Within one more hour he called me again professing his love asking me to clearly define our relationship...and he FINALLY admit why he prefers to keep our relationship a secret until June b/c until he presents the proposal to his committee he is just too busy to go public because going public means professional dinners with people in the academic community and double dates and other outings with his friends; he also added that his mentor is a conservative man.

 

In any case, he finally told me many times that he loved me and made it clear that I am the best girl he's ever met in his life. SO, I will keep my heart at a healthy distance, continue to not have a sexual relationship with him until we go public and just stay patient until June.

 

Thanks you all for helping me through all of this...I guess my next update should be in June!

 

Df:love:

 

So, if I got this right, nothing changed, yes?

[dollface07]

So, if I got this right, nothing changed, yes?

 

Yes, something changed I asserted myself and acted in an inter-personally effective manner and got my objective met of regaining a sense of security about where the direction of this relationship is headed. He finally leveled with me and I was prepared to accept any emotional pain due to breaking up (which from my first post I was totally not willing to do) so I feel effective and also have gained clarity about where he stands in terms of how he views me i totally didn't have that from before.

 

But either way I am not going to la la land to live happily ever after or anything I will remain vigilant and protect my heart it's only 4 more weeks of patience needed to determine whether his actions will follow through with those lovely words.

 

warmest,

df