Is he irrational or am I just naughty?

[coffeecat]

So my husband is really mad at me- furious - over a conversation he discovered on my FB. I had exchanged a few messages with this guy from high school. My husband is mad over a certain aspect of the conversation.

 

We exchanged stories of how we met and married our spouses. My husband is older than me by 12 years. In talking to this guy I say how I love and appreciated my husband for being more mature and older than guys my age at the time we met ( I was 18)... then we go on to mention that I had a reputation as a slut and that's why I couldn't stand other teens when I was a teen. It is because of the lies that they tell. I mention a certain guy and a certain rumor- I guess because inside it is still unresolved for me. My old classmate says how that guy is an idiot and a liar. He says that guys had a thing for me and made up rumors to give themselves credibility. I go on to say that as soon as I got out of high school, I found myself wooed by older men. I found dating men who were stable, owned houses, could afford to take me to nice places was more attractive to me then taking teenagers who were into clubs partying etc... My former friend tells me about how he could understand that, and how stupid young guys are ... blah blah blah...

 

I never thought there was anything wrong with this conversation so I didn't bother to delete it.

Anyway, my husband was so mad saying how inappropriate this conversation was and why was I bringing all this up to some guy that I should not be talking to in the first place.

 

This was a conversation that took place over the span of a couple of days of 'reconnection'. Then it abruptly stopped because we both have lives, and the conversation just did not mean that much to me. It was just the exchange of words and remembering a different time period that we both were present in. We share a common history and common past friends.

 

So what do you guys think?

Edited April 22, 2012 by coffeecat

[Try]

Anyway, my husband was so mad saying how inappropriate this conversation was and why was I bringing all this up to some guy that I should not be talking to in the first place.

Many people consider opposite sex friends to be inappropriate once you are married. It appears that this is your husband's point of view, thus he believes that you violated a boundary of your marraige. Although some would disagree with your husband on this, even those that support opposite sex friendships once you are married have rules that they follow. Rules that you broke. These rules include such things as no contact with past suitors, disclosing to your spouse when you have social contact with people of the opposite sex that you knew in the past, not talking to them about personal matters of your marraige, and not telling them what you look for in seeking romantic relationships with members of the opposite sex.

 

I personally would have been bugged by your actions if you were my wife. Although I do not believe that you had bad intent, this is how people wake one day and find that they have somehow slipped into an emotional affair. Not saying that you would have, but that is the risk.

 

Now would be a good time to discuss and agree on marraige boundaries with your husband.

Edited April 23, 2012 by Try

[whichwayisup]

then we go on to mention that I had a reputation as a slut and that's why I couldn't stand other teens when I was a teen. It is because of the lies that they tell. I mention a certain guy and a certain rumor- I guess because inside it is still unresolved for me

 

Who brought that up first? You or him? Makes a big difference. You say 'we' go on to mention.

 

I can see why your husband was uncomfortable with your conversation, to bring up sex stuff from the past with a guy whom you 'just' reconnected with on facebook, could be a red flag in his eyes because of how quickly the conversation turned too personal.

[whichwayisup]

If it was a girl from your past at high school, would you have brought up the same subject and discussed it with her? If no, (be honest) then bringing it up with a guy is wrong.

 

Also, just imagine your husband having this type of conversation with a woman he knew from his past.. How would it make you feel?

[findingnemo]

Let me give you another perspective...

 

In your conversation, you basically admitted to dating older guys because they give you nice things. It isn't a bad thing but it's one of those things that women don't quite tell the men they are with. Your H may be concerned that you dated him because you are materialistic. Read your post again like an outsider and see how this could be the conclusion. Many older men question why the younger women they are with love them. Just like low income guys would question why their gorgeous W is with them rather than a richer man. He may think he stumbled upon the answer to that.

 

The solution? Talk to him. Sit him down and ask him to explain what about the conversation bugged him. Let him say whatever he wants to say and remain silent until you're sure he's done. Then assure him that you love him and he is the one for you. Apologize for being insensitive and don't do whatever he didn't like you doing again.

[coffeecat]

Well, thank you for your thoughts. To answer some questions- yes I probably would have said the same types of things to a female. I am very open person. I have been called "candid" several times in my life. I know this is not always a good thing. My husband is the direct opposite of me in that he is very private. He is a scorpio, and I am a leo.

 

I am the one who brought up my rep, but only because I felt it was the big elephant in the room. The guy was asking me what happened to me and why did I disappear from the circle of friends that we all hung out with. I found that inquiry irritating because I felt like he should have remembered how people talked about me and it should not have been a surprise that I disappeared from that group of people. Why would I hang out with people that spread rumors behind my back?

 

I think when I was chatting with him, I was just saying all of my thoughts that were in my head in that moment. I didn't give it a lot of thought- similar to how a verbal conversation might get out of hand and maybe you say too much. I understand how it looks WRITTEN down... However, when I was actually writing it - I was in the middle of a conversation and just going back and forth in dialogue. I was not thinking about how it would look.

 

I know my husband is bugged about what I said about dating him, but I also said lots of nice and sweet things about him. The guy says something along the lines of "well, I hope you are happy and he treats you well" and I go on and on about how I am very happy and he is really good to me.

 

My husband doesn't mention this line of conversation though, although I know he read that too.

 

As for our age difference- We have been together for almost 20 years now. I am close to 40 and he's 50. He was a gorgeous man when he was 30 and he is a gorgeous man now. He is a classic 'nice guy' that has always been the type of guy that goes to work, comes home, does yard work on weekends- very devoted to family... Any female, young or old, would have been lucky to have him. After being married this long I don't think we have to go into why we married each other.

 

Even if, as an 18 year old, I was attracted to my husband because he was stable and had money, I know he was not after me for my sparkling personality. I think we both know that. And I know how it looks that I got into all of this with someone who is practically a stranger to me.

 

I suppose I am too uninhibited with my speech and thoughts. I don't censor myself. My husband and I are so opposites in that.

 

I usually argue and stand my ground, but I did not this time. I have accepted that I really pissed him off.

 

I have been really nice to him since Friday night when all of this took place and I think he is over it now. I have deactivated my FB. I will do whatever he wants. I don't want him to be mad at me. The connection with 432 FB friends is not worth his wrath. He hardly ever gets mad but when he does he is kind of scary.

[Els]

I do think it was a slightly inappropriate thing to be discussed on a public place, with a platonic male friend, but I can't understand how he could be FURIOUS about it, instead of just annoyed and telling you not to do it again. Did he say anything else about it?

[coffeecat]

Elysworth, it was in private chat, not on public FB. Yes, he was really mad at me, but I think he's over it. We have been having sex, so he can't be that mad. Usually when he's really mad he won't touch me. He had a history in our early marriage of being controlling and jealous. I like to think we have healed from that. I am not perfect, myself.

[Stillgrowing]

That's how I talk to people so I don't see anything wrong with, but if your husband can reasonably verbalize why he was upset by it and his rationale is valid, then out of respect I would stop it.

[Stillgrowing]

Ten characters

Edited April 23, 2012 by Stillgrowing
Double post

[Ninja'sHusband]

The thing that seemed most suspicious in your post was this:

 

 

I never thought there was anything wrong with this conversation so I didn't bother to delete it.

 

So if there had been something wrong you would have deleted it? Have you deleted other conversations that were "wrong"? Is there a history of this kind of thing?

 

Sorry to be harsh, there were just implications that made me go "hmmmm...this girl is sneaky?"

 

 

Also these kind of conversations can lead to affairs, whether you intend it or not.

[coffeecat]

Ok, Ninja's husband, you caught me.

 

There are conversations that I do delete. I actually think this entire episode was a wake up call to me in regards to an entirely different situation I am having.

 

I am not cheating on my H or having an EA- that's not the problem.

 

The problem is one of my H's (not very close) friends messaged me a while back ( maybe a year ago) because of problems he was having with his wife. My H knew about this and did not react to it right away because we both looked at it like he maybe he was looking for a woman's perspective. I was telling my H about every message. Then there came a point in which my H told me to stop talking to him. For a while, I kept defending my right to talk to him. I accused H of making a big deal out of it. I told H , that the guy sounded lost and suicidal and maybe he reached out to me because his wife and I come from a similar background (we are both Asian Americans). Finally my H blew up on me ( remember this was a year ago) and said that I'm not a marriage counselor and that the guy is a grown man and needed to deal with his own problems. My H said that if I did not stop it, he was going to stop it ( by approaching the guy). I asked him not to do that and I told him I would end it... And I did. I just stopped answering him. Every once in a while he would send me a message and I would delete it. I didn't want to tell H that he would message me even though I was ignoring him because H would be like "I told you so! He was up to no good!" Then one day, months later , we all attended the same event. The next day he sends me a message and asks me if I said anything to his wife or if she said anything to me. My curiosity got the best of me so I answered him and told that we had spoke and Why??. Then he ended up saying things to me that were entirely inappropriate. He said that his wife had accused him of "staring" at me.. and maybe it was true. he then he just got creepy and inappropriate with me. I told him his wife is GORGEOUS ( because she is ) and that he needed to make her feel that way, focus on his marriage, his children etc... and that I did not ever want to hear that I was the source of some stupid argument between them... after that I totally don't speak to him. But he keeps sending me messages every now and then "Are you busy?" "Did you read that article I posted?" ... I never answer him. I just delete the messages as soon as they come in, assuming he will eventually get the hint. I was going to block him as a last resort but I felt like that would be too obvious and was hoping he would back off on his own. I wish I could tell my husband about this but I feel like he is going to blame me because he is going to not understand how our conversation got to the point it did and he's going to say that he told me to cut the conversation off from the beginning.

 

My FB is deactivated now so I should not be having these types of problems anymore.

 

Now look, you got another confession out of me. I don't like to have secrets, but I also don't like to have arguments either.

 

And @Still growing, thank you for making me feel like I am not that abnormal.

Edited April 23, 2012 by coffeecat

[Try]

My H said that if I did not stop it, he was going to stop it ( by approaching the guy). I asked him not to do that and I told him I would end it... And I did. I just stopped answering him. Every once in a while he would send me a message and I would delete it.

You said that you would end it but you did not. Not answering him is not the same as ending it. It is keeping him on the hook. Ending it would be you telling him to stop texting you as you are married. The other man (OM) was fishing you BTW. Cheaters always want to talk about problems with their spouse as a way of letting you know that their marriage is not strong and that they are available to you.

 

I didn't want to tell H that he would message me even though I was ignoring him because H would be like "I told you so! He was up to no good!"

You did not tell husband because you were suppose to end it and did not.

 

Then one day, months later , we all attended the same event. The next day he sends me a message and asks me if I said anything to his wife or if she said anything to me. My curiosity got the best of me so I answered him and told that we had spoke and Why??. Then he ended up saying things to me that were entirely inappropriate. He said that his wife had accused him of "staring" at me.. and maybe it was true. he then he just got creepy and inappropriate with me. I told him his wife is GORGEOUS ( because she is ) and that he needed to make her feel that way, focus on his marriage, his children etc... and that I did not ever want to hear that I was the source of some stupid argument between them... after that I totally don't speak to him. But he keeps sending me messages every now and then "Are you busy?" "Did you read that article I posted?" ... I never answer him. I just delete the messages as soon as they come in, assuming he will eventually get the hint. I was going to block him as a last resort but I felt like that would be too obvious and was hoping he would back off on his own. I wish I could tell my husband about this but I feel like he is going to blame me because he is going to not understand how our conversation got to the point it did and he's going to say that he told me to cut the conversation off from the beginning.

Almost as bad as cheating is the lost of trust in a marriage. Trust is built when you tell your husband things that you know will anger him but do so anyway. Your husband needs to know that he can trust you fully. Tell him everything right now. If he every finds out from the OM or the OM’s wife, he will feel betrayed beyond belief and will never fully trust you again (Talk about close calls, what if the OM's wife spoke to your husband at the party about the deleted emails?). There may be a time that you will need that trust. Do not take a chance of losing it over this. Right now you and the OM are keeping a secret together. The two of you are on the inside with your husband on the outside. When your husband talks to the OM without knowing this secret, the OM knows that you have kept your secret with him.

 

Your husband is not on your team with this secret and he always needs to be. He also needs to know that he was right about the OM’s intentions so that he knows how to treat the OM and protect his marriage in the future. Yes your husband will be very angry and rightfully so, but when he calms down he will also know that he can trust you.

Edited April 24, 2012 by Try

[threebyfate]

The conversation(s) referenced in the OP was no big deal. From what you've stated, no relationship boundaries were crossed. You're two 40-something year olds discussing something that happened in highschool. Your husband overreacted.

 

The situation with your husband's friend was bizarre. Once again, your husband overreacted. He's dictatorial and possessive, treating you like a child.

 

But you too didn't react in a mature manner. Why wouldn't you have just told your husband's friend that your husband was getting uncomfortable with your correspondence and that you've decided it's time to stop? This way, the guy isn't left hanging, wondering why you've withdrawn your support and friendship.

 

Overall, I think you're seeing the dynamics of entering into a relationship as an 18 year old, to a 30 year old man. Father-daughter, instead of equal partners.

[threebyfate]

I'm well aware of the time sequence. Just responding in the order of her posts.

[findingnemo]

It sounds like all is well now. That's good. FB has its good qualities and its bad ones. Letting it go was a good decision. I also like how you handled your H's friend. When someone decides to pursue you, the best thing to do is to ignore them completely. The normal ones get it and move on. I hate drama. I wouldn't tell my H/bf about it unless I felt that things were getting creepy.

 

A lot of APs claim they were pursued, etc. But you can't have an A unless you make that choice. I doubt that your H was being controlling. He was simply nipping things in the bud...and you listened. Now the boundaries should be in place for the next time a man decides to make you his M therapist.

 

Good luck!

[coffeecat]

Thanks for thoughts! There are certainly some interesting insights here! However, I do feel that some of you are projecting your own issues onto me. I would never be a walk away wife. I will never leave my husband. That's ridiculous.

 

Plan, your dissection of everything is interesting, but I don't have to test to see if I can attract men. I do, and that is just a fact.

However, you are probably right about my title thread reflecting something more. I do have some repressed BDSM fantasies. That's another thread.

 

Now as for H's friend. My H is the one who told me to "stop answering him". He never told me to do or say anything else to him. I didn't want to tell H that he continued to message me with these dumb meaningless messages "are you there??" because I actually felt embarrassed on that guys behalf that he couldn't get a hint. This guy is a songwriter and I really felt ( and explained to my H) that he had a poetic soul and probably felt pain really deeply- was truly scared and suicidal about his marriage ending. At the time I was convinced he was reaching out for advice on how to make his marriage work because I am Asian like his wife and I was the center of a specific conversation in a group of friends right before he sent me the message. I was dominating a conversation about love and marriage. My husband was there and participated in the conversation also. This is why we both figured he thought to ask me- maybe he felt I would be easy to talk to? I honestly never ever thought he had other intentions, and I felt my husband was being insensitive to his pain by asking me to stop talking to him. Therefore, I felt stupid and foolish when he started a very clearly inappropriate line of conversation after the party we went to. It certainly did not coincide with his previous messages of “I can’t stop crying.. I am falling a part. I don’t want to live anymore..” blah blah blah...

 

I thought of telling my husband the day he was mad at me over the high school friend... but I never did and now the moment has passed. Another reason that I didn't tell my husband is, because frankly, I never liked to tell him about every man that flirts with me because it is like I am throwing it in his face. He doesn't like it. It makes him mad. Why do I want to purposely make him mad? Also, not only am I telling him how his friend was flirting with me, it would be a situation that he will view that I caused by talking to him in the first place. Not a fight I am in the mood to have.

 

 

Sorry for the ramble and all the digression.

 

I do appreciate those of you who have shared your thoughts with me.

Edited April 24, 2012 by coffeecat

[threebyfate]

coffeecat, the more I read, the more I wonder. You need to review why you agitate your husband's insecurities. He too needs to review why he allows your agitation to affect him.

[Ninja'sHusband]

Ok, Ninja's husband, you caught me.

...

 

Wow! <pats self on back>

 

That does make more sense though. Your H was responding to both of these interactions probably. I think other people made that clear though. Thanks for sharing that!

[musemaj11]

Your husband knew he was marrying an immature gold digger. But he doesnt like to be reminded of that.

[g450]

Your husband knew he was marrying an immature gold digger. But he doesnt like to be reminded of that.

 

Man talk about being brutally honest LOL.

 

I think its funny how OP states she is not having an EA when by her own description of her conversation she is doing exactly that. Talking to an OM about personal and private matters about her H. Really? And she even admitted to deleting stuff that he didnt see. Would love to know what that was all about. Yeah she is being naughty. And in a bad way no doubt.

 

I see a future thread on this situation from her H about how his W started an EA and is now leaving him or cheating on him etc.

[xxoo]

Coffee, it is weird that you deleted those messages to protect your H's friend. Wrong choice, deceiving your H to protect another man, or to avoid a conflict.

 

Likewise, it is weird that he "told" you to stop talking to him.

 

I agree that there is a parent/child dynamic at work, rather than two equals.

[coffeecat]

yeah ok. This thread is a good case study in an example of "group think" . It doesn't matter how many of you try to say it is so - I am not going to cheat on my husband.

 

Some of what is indicated is true. I am aware of all of my insecurity, vanity, narcissism, etc.. I know of the power struggles that have been going on in my marriage for years. I know my husband has a hero complex. However, I am not bringing this in the thread because this was not suppose to be my therapy session. But I also know that I would not cheat on my husband, and destroy my family, my children, my reputation, my beautiful life... for what? So I can incur the wrath and hatred of the one thing in my life that loves me unconditionally?

 

He is one half of me. The silent half. The good half. As you can see I'm the half of the relationship that talks too much and causes trouble.

[maya.arrow]

Coffeecat,

 

I think everyone is really being harsh on you and I don't really understand it. Don't worry about them.

 

I think I have to agree with the poster that said that both you and your husband aren't reacting to the situations very sensibly. In the first situation, I believe you that it was an innocent conversation with some guy from high school. It may not have been pleasant for your husband to see, but you didn't really do anything wrong. And it sounds like you are taking huge steps to reassure him--more than I ever would do.

 

About the other guy--your husband's friend. I think it does show a weird dynamic in you and your husband's relationship that you would be afraid to tell him the truth about this guy continuing to write to you for fear of his temper. I also think it is a bit overbearing of your husband to demand you stop writing to him if he trusted you. You should be able to tell him these things without fear! And the fact that you have been deleting them for ages just makes it much, much harder to be honest because it now makes a situation where you are not at fault look really suspicious.

 

Still, I do think you have good intentions and a good heart. Just try not to get into the same situations again and don't let yourself be bullied by your husband! I'm sure he is a good man, but it sounds like he doesn't trust you or your judgement, and that is not fair to you.

[findingnemo]

Coffeecat, you're doing fine, IMO. Yes, you did some things in a "sneaky way" and that's how As begin. I think your H was reacting to what he saw as a slippery slope. If he'd posted here saying his W said A, B and C to her high school buddy, everyone would advise him to demand NC immediately. He did that. You complied. Not only did you stop, you cancelled your FB account. Good for you both.

 

There is a reason that many As develop between good friends. It's because many times that friendship can mask the true intentions of one of the parties until one day, seemingly out of the blue, something happens. Of course I believe that people choose to do these things but they never live their lives intending to screw their spouse's BFF. I'm glad you stopped "comforting" your mutual friend.

 

You're not a gold digger. Far from it. You have your preferences just as others have theirs. You married by choice and love him. Always remember this. Also your H is quite sharp. He must be very tuned into you and therefore emotionally present (as opposed to checked out) to have seen and stopped what could have become a big problem. Please don't think he's irrational or controlling or anything else. He simply sees his M as his territory and wants to protect it. I would never find anything wrong with that.

 

Are you naughty? That word as a descriptor is a bit weird to use when you are no longer a teenager. Are you getting a bit bored? Maybe. If so do something to spice things up now. Fight for your M just like your H is.

 

Yes, you don't deserve to be told that you are X, Y and Z. I would reserve that for those who cheat. And yes, I don't believe that you should tell your H how many men flirt with you all the time. It's irritating. So let them attempt to do whatever. For you, minimize situations where this happens. Learn facial expressions that give off a clear no. You can't control random men and their thoughts but you can stop them in their tracks. One thing that helps is the realization that any man who flirts with a MW is definitely a sleaze bag.

 

Good luck.