my dilemma

April 22, 2012

If a woman posted this I'd say he's not into you. Go work on your confidence.

This woman has at least kept in touch, albeit sparingly. I know for me that means I might go out with you but if not, it's no big loss. But if I had zero interest I'd lose the number. So the OP should at least try again and ask without worrying about how long it takes to respond or why she had time to change her number while canceling a date. He never gets another chance to woo her with his newfound confidence if he just assumes she is playing games.

April 22, 2012

Your last sentence is offensive, it has nothing to do with being British.

You think no American women might do the same thing, or French etc etc etc?!

Most of us get rejected at some point, nationality has nothing to do with it.

Sorry you're hurting, but generalising and having digs about 'British women' won't help.

to the very mature and grounded ladies and gents,

all my life i have been rejected because im too ugly or not white or whatever lame ass excuse women come up with.

its put me in depression and less confidence. not a good thing.

anyway over the years ive had literally the odd date. they just wanted to be spoiled for the evening before they go back to their ways of game playing and seeing other men, messing around etc.... - i was there for a "sanity call check".

5 months ago, found this nice woman (so i thought) and we got talking by email for quite some time from our hectic schedules. we had alot in common.

then we finally met up about 2 months ago. she really enjoyed the time spent together, as did I. endless talking, dinner and a movie. we didnt really want to seperate. but anyway end of the evening I went back home. But I did text her, as I know very well about these things, to ask "so, what do you think? do you want to see me again? if not - no worries", to which she said she definately wanted to see me again.

we still kept in touch by the odd email and text.

a month went on and then was due to meet again but that got cancelled on the day i was meant to meet her. (I thought...here we go. this game again). But I thought ok, we will see what she has to say.

her excuse was that her friend went into labour early and had to be there for her. I thought fine.... respect the decision and hope it all works out for her.
On the same day I got a text (I guess a mass text message) that she has changed her number and gave the new one in the message.

got me thinking "if she is with her friend because she is having a baby then at what time did she manage to go to the phone shop, get a new number and start sending out mass texts to tell her contacts about the new number"....

..anyway a few days went by and texted her the usual, "hope you are well" type messages. I get the odd response back (a couple of days after).

I sent her another text yesterday and an email. got the email to day "sorry not been in touch. hope you are well x"

i just replied in a bit of a pissy mood saying

now I like this woman and i never get the attention albiet very little communication here and there, but feel that I just have to tell her to remove me from her contacts.

I NEVER get a chance and everytime I do, they always play games or something. ive never pressured her into anything but always been a gent and respectful.... i think literally months here is more than enough "time" for something i.e another meet.

sorry for blabbering but not sure what to think or do.

its been literally months since ive been with someone and i felt very lonely because no one is ever interested but only reject me.
then she comes along...we talked alot, met up, genuinly enjoyed each others company (and yes you can clearly tell by the body language and everything if it is genuine or a fake) - and now this.

I guess this is how typical british women are (sorry but you know its true!)

*sigh*

April 22, 2012

Hmmm....my post mysteriously disappeared. Anyway, I'm a woman and I would be telling any woman the same thing if she comes on here whining like this. We are not being hard on him, Green Light. We are trying to help him and he is vetoing all the advice that he doesn't like. All the advice given to him was sound advice. Basically for him to grow a pair. Did you read everything he posted? This is what he's saying:

"Women don't like me because I am not white. Women don't like me because of my skin and eye colour or because I am not sexy or fit. I want to know if this most recent woman will go out with me but I am too chicken to ask. I want to ask her out but I want to know the answer first. I am not afraid. I just want to know the future first. Why can you people not understand this?"

Does that not frustrate you, man?

I guess what bothers me is that men are always being told to "man-up" and to "grow a pair" but we never tell women to be more "womanly." We never tell a woman to "grow a vagina." In 2012 what would it even mean to tell a woman to be more feminine?

I'm not saying that the OP has handled the situation right but he has obviously handled it the only way he knows how, he knows that something isn't right and so he came here and it seemed to me as though he's being dog-piled.

Not every male is a super-confident alpha! In order to become one of those you need the right upbringing, the right brain chemistry, and the right positive circumstances that have brought you to that point. Not everybody is lucky in life.

Edited April 22, 2012 by Green Light

April 22, 2012

I guess what bothers me is that men are always being told to "man-up" and to "grow a pair" but we never tell women to be more "womanly." We never tell a woman to "grow a vagina." In 2012 what would it even mean to tell a woman to be more feminine?
I'm not saying that the OP has handled the situation right but he has obviously handled it the only way he knows how, he knows that something isn't right and so he came here and it seemed to me as though he's being dog-piled.
Not every male is a super-confident alpha! In order to become one of those you need the right upbringing, the right brain chemistry, and the right positive circumstances that have brought you to that point. Not everybody is lucky in life.

Wrong. This is an EXCUSE for why people aren't. I learned this on my own. I got tired of being like the OP and I did something about it. I went out, got butt hurt, had my lonely nights, had relationships, dating etc.

I quit being a cry baby about things not working out for me and went out and did something about it. If you want something in life, you go after it, you dont just dilly dally and wait around for it to come to you and then cry about it when you are sitting alone at home at night and things arent working the way you want them to

April 22, 2012

Wrong. This is an EXCUSE for why people aren't. I learned this on my own. I got tired of being like the OP and I did something about it. I went out, got butt hurt, had my lonely nights, had relationships, dating etc.

I quit being a cry baby about things not working out for me and went out and did something about it. If you want something in life, you go after it, you dont just dilly dally and wait around for it to come to you and then cry about it when you are sitting alone at home at night and things arent working the way you want them to

Good for you. Not everybody is like you or has your temperament or has experienced the same things as you. You are looking at things as very black and white and they just ain't that way.

April 23, 2012

I too think people jump too harsh on this.

For the poster, I think this is not a dilemma, but its done already =( I didnt follow who texted whom and what amounts... but seems you texted too much and unnecessary things. For the second date you could ask her for a walk in the park. Third too. At some point you should tell her: I have the apartment free, I would like you to see it, how I live, etc... Then, after coffe and drinks you make it physical at your home.

We dont know all circumstances of the poster. I struggle/-d with self image too. We dont know everything.

Say he has (or some dude X) a wooden leg. Of course you have to be realistic about your situation. On one end, if you arent- "hey dude, stop smiling. Have you noticed your leg? It matters." On the other end- "stop sobbing, dry your tears. It doesnt matter."

But all experiences should lead to better tomorrow, youll know better what you want and how next time.

PS.

And stop texting, that is so oldschool, just call =) No answer, no pickup, no reply- then you know youre done with this, and dont call anymore until she does call back.

April 23, 2012

I guess what bothers me is that men are always being told to "man-up" and to "grow a pair" but we never tell women to be more "womanly." We never tell a woman to "grow a vagina." In 2012 what would it even mean to tell a woman to be more feminine?
I'm not saying that the OP has handled the situation right but he has obviously handled it the only way he knows how, he knows that something isn't right and so he came here and it seemed to me as though he's being dog-piled.
Not every male is a super-confident alpha! In order to become one of those you need the right upbringing, the right brain chemistry, and the right positive circumstances that have brought you to that point. Not everybody is lucky in life.

Know what bothers me? He came in here asking for advice and when he got it, he vetoed it. All of it! And it was good, sound advice. The advice he got was this: ask her out again. What did he say to that? He said he wanted to know if she would go out with him first before he asks her out again! WTF is that?? And then he whined and whined about it, insulting British women. Huh?

He basically blamed it ALL on his skin colour. He asked a question and when he didn't get the answer he wanted, he turned into a little brat. WAH WAH WAH! Was telling him to grow a pair good advice? Of course it was! Because that is what he needs to do! I would even tell a woman to grow a pair if she were in his situation! His self-esteem is non-existent and he has 0 self-confidence. He got the advice that he needed. He just hated it. He'd rather it be the women's fault rather than his own, and he wanted validation. He didn't get it. So, he threw a tantrum.

April 23, 2012

Know what bothers me? He came in here asking for advice and when he got it, he vetoed it. All of it! And it was good, sound advice. The advice he got was this: ask her out again. What did he say to that? He said he wanted to know if she would go out with him first before he asks her out again! WTF is that?? And then he whined and whined about it, insulting British women. Huh?

He basically blamed it ALL on his skin colour. He asked a question and when he didn't get the answer he wanted, he turned into a little brat. WAH WAH WAH! Was telling him to grow a pair good advice? Of course it was! Because that is what he needs to do! I would even tell a woman to grow a pair if she were in his situation! His self-esteem is non-existent and he has 0 self-confidence.

Not everyone is coming from a place of confidence and self esteem. Those things are built on positive experiences and, yes, being banged around by life a bit. If the OP has little experience with women I can see why he is struggling here. Do I think that he is handling things the optimal way? No. But then again neither is the woman on the other end by being vague about everything.

I just cannot stand those statements "man up" and "grow a pair." This is not 1955. I thought we are all liberated now, both men and women, and so women are now free to be aggressive and men are free to be sensitive. But I digress....

April 23, 2012

Firehawk, it's a scary prospect putting yourself out there and no one likes rejection. And I know it's something that you're hoping you can avoid if you can just get those guarantees that she's interested. Unfortunately, embarking into the world of dating is a risk. If you go into it with a self-defeatist attitude, then you're likely to be sitting at home hiding because you're too afraid to believe that you have something to offer to women out there.

My first boyfriend wasn't a good looking guy. He was shorter than me, had weird hair, bad skin, kinda skinny and had an eclectic taste. But I was absolutely taken and attracted to his confidence. His personality was enticing. I was intrigued by him and as we started dating, what made me fall for him was his heart.

I've dated the model 6'5" guys with the washboard abs and sometimes felt completely bored once the visual and the lack of character started taking over.

I've been complimented on my looks and have a personality to match but I've been rejected, stood up, played the fool, ignored, etc. There are no guarantees. Not everyone is going to like you or dislike you. No woman finds a man that has confidence issues attractive. You have to bring something to the table and check your fears at the door. If you find you're not comfortable in your own skin and it sounds like you almost dislike yourself, maybe it's time to look inward. If you don't find yourself special, then who will?

She's showing you some interest. You need to do something with it or hide away. The sad part is that you will never know if you never take a chance. What you find unappealing in yourself maybe attractive to others.

Sometimes we are our own worst enemy.

April 23, 2012

Not everyone is coming from a place of confidence and self esteem. Those things are built on positive experiences and, yes, being banged around by life a bit. If the OP has little experience with women I can see why he is struggling here. Do I think that he is handling things the optimal way? No. But then again neither is the woman on the other end by being vague about everything.
I just cannot stand those statements "man up" and "grow a pair." This is not 1955. I thought we are all liberated now, both men and women, and so women are now free to be aggressive and men are free to be sensitive. But I digress....

No, this is not 1955. This is 2012. The OP is blaming everything on the colour of his skin. Does that sound like he is in 2012 or 1955?

I do not have a problem with his self-esteem or self-confidence issues. A lot of people have that. My problem is his wanting advice and, when he got it and it wasn't something he wanted to hear, he went apes**t.. He only wanted to hear what he wanted to hear. That's my problem. He got good advice and instead of heeding it, he went berserk telling everyone they were wrong.

April 23, 2012

No woman finds a man that has confidence issues attractive.

This is a blanket statement. Sort of like saying "no man finds a fat woman attractive." There are men who are into fat women. Also the idea of confidence is subjective. Some women are attracted to criminals because they give off and aura of confidence. I don't consider a criminal to be confident in a positive way.

I do agree with you, however, that if one does not love one's self then nobody else will love you. The problem is it's not always easy to love yourself. Especially if you have had a lot of negative influences in your past. I would say that most people out there do not love themselves.

April 23, 2012

This is a blanket statement. Sort of like saying "no man finds a fat woman attractive." There are men who are into fat women. Also the idea of confidence is subjective. Some women are attracted to criminals because they give off and aura of confidence. I don't consider a criminal to be confident in a positive way.
I do agree with you, however, that if one does not love one's self then nobody else will love you. The problem is it's not always easy to love yourself. Especially if you have had a lot of negative influences in your past. I would say that most people out there do not love themselves.

No healthy minded woman looking for a healthy relationship will find a man that has confidence issues attractive. Maybe I should just apply that statement to myself rather than speak for others. I'm obviously speaking from a "healthy" perspective.

April 23, 2012

No, this is not 1955. This is 2012. The OP is blaming everything on the colour of his skin. Does that sound like he is in 2012 or 1955?

I do not have a problem with his self-esteem or self-confidence issues. A lot of people have that. My problem is his wanting advice and, when he got it and it wasn't something he wanted to hear, he went apes**t.. He only wanted to hear what he wanted to hear. That's my problem. He got good advice and instead of heeding it, he went berserk telling everyone they were wrong.

I guess he didn't like everyone's advice or maybe he didn't care for the way it was delivered. At any rate, I wish the guy luck. I think he has some big fears of rejection and I hope he can conquer those at some point. These things can take years to change.

April 23, 2012

This is a blanket statement. Sort of like saying "no man finds a fat woman attractive." There are men who are into fat women. Also the idea of confidence is subjective. Some women are attracted to criminals because they give off and aura of confidence. I don't consider a criminal to be confident in a positive way.
I do agree with you, however, that if one does not love one's self then nobody else will love you. The problem is it's not always easy to love yourself. Especially if you have had a lot of negative influences in your past. I would say that most people out there do not love themselves.

Have you met a woman who liked men who lacked confidence? I am 41 and I have never met one. I have met women who liked men who were shy but that is not the same thing. The OP will not even ask her out again for fear that she may say no. He wants to know the future first. He wants to know if she will say yes first. That is an impossibility!

geegirl is right. Forget about women who don't like men with no confidence. It's the same in the gay world.

April 23, 2012

I guess he didn't like everyone's advice or maybe he didn't care for the way it was delivered. At any rate, I wish the guy luck. I think he has some big fears of rejection and I hope he can conquer those at some point. These things can take years to change.

And that is why he was told to grow a pair. It was good advice but he couldn't handle it. Was it delivered too harshly? Maybe. Would he have taken it better if it were delivered in a nicer way? I really doubt it.

IMO, what he wanted to do was to get a bunch of guys to bash women with him. That didn't happen. He lost it. Simple as that.

You were nice enough to try and be on his side but, really, he didn't want advice. He wanted validation. He was not ever going to get it here.

April 23, 2012

No healthy minded woman looking for a healthy relationship will find a man that has confidence issues attractive. Maybe I should just apply that statement to myself rather than speak for others. I'm obviously speaking from a "healthy" perspective.

Number one, EVERONE has some degree of confidence issues.

And, if high male confidence is a constant requirement by women of men then what is the constant requirement that men should have of women in order for the relationship to be considered "healthy"?

April 23, 2012

Number one, EVERONE has some degree of confidence issues.
And, if high male confidence is a constant requirement by women of men then what is the constant requirement that men should have of women in order for the relationship to be considered "healthy"?

I think you are over analyzing my statement. In relation to a man being too afraid to ask a woman out because he's confident that he's not good enough even when she is showing a level of interest, then that is an issue where a woman will find highly unattractive.

We all have confidence issues and it's a matter of how we manage, cope and overcome them, without having them almost take over your life. No one is looking for a man with a perfect level of confidence but one who can at least have some sense of self. We all have different levels of wants and needs but I am speaking specifically to the level of confidence that is somewhat void within Firehawk, based on his post.

April 23, 2012

And that is why he was told to grow a pair. It was good advice but he couldn't handle it. Was it delivered too harshly? Maybe. Would he have taken it better if it were delivered in a nicer way? I really doubt it.

IMO, what he wanted to do was to get a bunch of guys to bash women with him. That didn't happen. He lost it. Simple as that.

You were nice enough to try and be on his side but, really, he didn't want advice. He wanted validation. He was not ever going to get it here.

I wouldn't say that I am on anybody's side. I don't think that he is handling things right either. I just don't feel the need to bash the guy.

What I saw was a guy who obviously has confidence issues followed by a bunch of "man-up" posts. This really isn't going to help the OP. It will just make him defensive. It certainly isn't going to help his confidence. Listen, if a person who does not have confidence knew how to get it they would do so automatically. No bashing comments from a bunch of people on a forum are going to motivate them to do it that is for sure.

April 23, 2012

Ok I don't think he is on here looking for advice I think he is here to rant a little about women. Which is fine if thats what he wants to do.

First of all!! Men stop texting a girl to ask her on a date. If you are at the point where you have her number and you think she would even entertain the idea of going on a date with you then pick up the phone and CALL!!!

As a man I couldn't even imagine asking a girl out via text. Like seriously...

And come on OP there has to be a Mrs. hunchback that would go out with you! Are you shooting for supermodels?

She canceled a date with you but foreworded her new number so she obviously wanted you to have it. She's probably thinking what the hell is this guy doing why wont he just pick up the phone and ask me out! WTF why is he texting me saying well if you want to go out good but if not who cares. Thats what that sounded like

OP Pick up the phone and call her and say would you like to go out to where ever with me be specific about the time and event. Don't beat around the bush. If she wants to go out with you she will if she says she's busy or whatever then She's just not that into you.

And would you be willing to go out with a girl that isn't white isn't physically fit and isn't attractive? I am sure there are lots of really nice girls out there that fit that description wondering why no one at all asks them out!

Not everyone can be gorgeous ripped geniuses like me so you have to lower your standards and leave the models for me!!

April 23, 2012

the OP has said that if we were to see his picture we would go running and disappear...that's more than a confidence issue. he has severe self image issues, he hates how he looks to the point where he can't see anyone being attracted to him. he hates women because he sees them as the ones doing the rejecting. but really he is rejecting himself first. i wish him well, and i hope he finds someone that can bridge the insecurity and see the value behind the self hatred.

April 23, 2012

I wouldn't say that I am on anybody's side. I don't think that he is handling things right either. I just don't feel the need to bash the guy.
What I saw was a guy who obviously has confidence issues followed by a bunch of "man-up" posts. This really isn't going to help the OP. It will just make him defensive. It certainly isn't going to help his confidence. Listen, if a person who does not have confidence knew how to get it they would do so automatically. No bashing comments from a bunch of people on a forum are going to motivate them to do it that is for sure.

Honey, no one bashed him. We only told it how it was. The problem here is that he didn't want advice, he wanted everyone to agree with him that British women are all racists! Had he wanted advice and was sincere in getting it, he would've said something to the effect of, "Oh? Do you really think it's me? Maybe I should look into that." But no! He did not do that! What he did was veto every piece of advice he got.

Were we blunt? Hell, yes! Because it was something he needed to hear. But like I said, would he have been more receptive had we been nicer? No! I really, highly doubt that! He did not come on here for advice otherwise he would've taken it and said thanks. He didn't do that. He argued and argued. What's more, he's fled! He's f*cked off! Getting advice was never his intention. He was here to get validation. He didn't get it. That is all.

April 23, 2012

I agree a little with everyone. The OP came off to me like he was assuming she would play games instead of responding. He is projecting his past negative experience. I thought his actions were passive but I think the OP has a chance because she gave him his number. In the meantime everyone has picked up on and brought up his lower self-confidence which could contribute to her casualness with responding. She probably picked up on that during the date and from receiving messages saying things like no worries if you don't want to go out again. This is my perspective if a guy communicated to me in this manner. So I think everyone is saying to sound more confident in how he communicates with her. No one says it's easy, but we want him to better his chances. She already knows what you look like and STILL gave you her number. That's a good sign.

I agree it's hard to get someone's attention because we do tend to be attracted to looks at first but you are past that! Some of the most unattractive men in the world have beautiful women because they make the woman feel special.

While some delivery here may seem harsh, the message is go for it. Fire you told me to take a chance in my last post (I did, got rejected lol but good reason) but at least I know

April 23, 2012

I agree a little with everyone. The OP came off to me like he was assuming she would play games instead of responding. He is projecting his past negative experience. I thought his actions were passive but I think the OP has a chance because she gave him his number. In the meantime everyone has picked up on and brought up his lower self-confidence which could contribute to her casualness with responding. She probably picked up on that during the date and from receiving messages saying things like no worries if you don't want to go out again. This is my perspective if a guy communicated to me in this manner. So I think everyone is saying to sound more confident in how he communicates with her. No one says it's easy, but we want him to better his chances. She already knows what you look like and STILL gave you her number. That's a good sign.

I agree it's hard to get someone's attention because we do tend to be attracted to looks at first but you are past that! Some of the most unattractive men in the world have beautiful women because they make the woman feel special.

While some delivery here may seem harsh, the message is go for it. Fire you told me to take a chance in my last post (I did, got rejected lol but good reason) but at least I know

Posts keep disappearing on this thread...my posts anyway.

Some of the most unattractive men in the world have beautiful women because they are rich. Why are they rich? Because they are successful. They are successful because they are confident. And I am not saying all women are materialistic but women want and need stability and reassurance. Looks has nothing to do with it. Confidence does. And that is why we advised this idiot to look into himself.

April 23, 2012

Posts keep disappearing on this thread...my posts anyway.

Some of the most unattractive men in the world have beautiful women because they are rich. Why are they rich? Because they are successful. They are successful because they are confident. And I am not saying all women are materialistic but women want and need stability and reassurance. Looks has nothing to do with it. Confidence does. And that is why we advised this idiot to look into himself.

Since we are telling the OP that he MUST possess all of these qualities in order to have any success with women. I will turn it around again and ask what are these essential qualities that a woman must have to attract a man? I've read alot of threads like this advising men of the list of things that women want from men but I never see it reversed. Also, if a man were truly confident I doubt he would care about a woman's needs. After all aren't you telling the OP not to care about what this girl is feeling and just bug her anyway?

April 23, 2012

I agree a little with everyone. The OP came off to me like he was assuming she would play games instead of responding.

She already had been playing games. She was very vague for a whole month. I think that both parties here have some personal issues.

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