no more interest in CHIVALRY?

[udolipixie]

Sure there are plenty of MRA sites but there are also plenty of misandrist sites. Trust me on that one.

I don't have to trust you on there being plenty of misandrist sites as I wasn't stating, suggesting, or implying there aren't misandrist sites out there.

 

Quite interesting that when I bring up the negative attitudes towards women many men have it's 'Yes but' with the but being women do it to rather than 'that sucks'.

 

Griping is a non matter to me. Guys and gals gripe.

 

It sucks but it's an on concern when griping is considered rational, logical, factual, and truthful notion when it is really griping/complaining/sexist. Those guys and gals are effed up to me.

 

It's intriguing that many mistreatment of the opposite sex as it mostly seems to come from America where I live. Those guys and gals induce caution though I admit I'm more bias in my caution with the men as I'm their target just as you may be more bias in your caution with the women who want to castrate all heterosexual men.

 

I wasn't stating, suggesting, or implying that you were saying women should put up with bad behavior.

 

I was just stating my at the whole if you want a man to be X you inspire it. It suggests to me that men are controlled by women and have no accountable for their actions. It seems to me as men often get when women aren't acting the way a man aka 'put his foot down' or leave that men get told not to put up with bad behavior from women while women get told to reward bad behavior in hopes it'll change.

[Woggle]

Trust me I am not one that thinks women should reward bad behavior. I just don't think it is right when women punish innocent men for the actions of others. It seems that after years of sticking around way too long with the wrong men women make a good man take the brunt of all her rage.

[udolipixie]

Have never seen that sentiment stated or even implied anywhere other than possibly in trolls, where a man or men are claiming that they are doing women some kind of favor, paying them a courtesy or being chivalrous merely in not commiting rape.

I'm not surprised that you think possible troll from men with those sentiments as you claim there's no pervasive misogyny in today's culture.

Then when show misogynistic/hateful attitudes towards women you either excused it, minimized it, or called troll then summed it up with if there's any pervasive attitude of misogyny in today's culture much of it resulted from feminism.

 

I thought any responses to me were finished when there was no replies to that's again excusing and shifting blame and how would you like it if one said if there was any pervasive misandry in today's culture and misandry in feminism much of it resulted from oppression from men.

 

Different experiences.

 

I have seen that sentiment in men I have meet/know and see/hear it online.

 

There's plenty of 'women owe men for being nice' talk by many men varying in extremity: be grateful we gave you rights....rights you don't deserve, be grateful we decided not to treat you parasitic whores like you deserve, chivalry = not raping women and etc.

 

Perhaps it's an age thing as well...?..

 

These sentiments are quite common in the young men that I meet/know and seem to be quite common in the older men going by what I see/hear they say online and the masses contributing to such movements/notions.

[udolipixie]

Trust me I am not one that thinks women should reward bad behavior. I just don't think it is right when women punish innocent men for the actions of others. It seems that after years of sticking around way too long with the wrong men women make a good man take the brunt of all her rage.

I'm quite unsure of how women punishing innocent men for others actions goes with the me disagreeing with the if you want a man to be X you inspire it advice to women. As when women aren't acting the way a man way he's often told to 'put his foot down' or leave aka seems men get told not to put up with bad behavior from women while women get told to reward bad behavior in hopes it'll change.

 

For you how does if you want a man to be X inspire it and me disagreeing with it correlate to women punish innocent men for the actions of others?

 

I just dislike the advice mainly peddled to women to 'if you want your man to be X inspire it' while seem to be told 'if you want X tell her to be it or leave and get it'. I think the latter is best suited to be the main advice for both guys/gals.

Edited April 22, 2012 by udolipixie

[NXS]

 

I was just stating my at the whole if you want a man to be X you inspire it. It suggests to me that men are controlled by women and have no accountable for their actions. It seems to me as men often get when women aren't acting the way a man aka 'put his foot down' or leave that men get told not to put up with bad behavior from women while women get told to reward bad behavior in hopes it'll change.

 

I don't know where you're getting these opinions from but they're way off the mark. Prison populations are full of men held responsible for their actions. There's no free pass if you're a man unless you're in the top echelons of power, for the rest of the male population you get the full weight of the law down on you.

 

With regard to behaviour in relationships men are told to "man up" which means take whatever abuse is being thrown at you without responding. Yes there's abusive men out there but some men are sick of these men being used as examples of typical male behaviour. We're also sick of listening to stories from women "victims" who reward this behaviour by dating/marrying them and then pretending that all men are like that or that they were somehow forced into these situations.

 

Furthermore I find your posts here very inflammatory and yet you're not being held to the same account as a man would be if he posted in a similar manner.

[threebyfate]

quit lying. you spend so much time accusing good guys of lying but will **** the hot guy.

I'd normally ignore you troll but decided to respond because it's fun to emphasize how life works. No doubt I **** my husband a lot and yes, he's a hot guy in my eyes so I'm quite happy being a whore for him.

 

As a single person, I also had no interest in mercy screwing anyone unattractive to me. Now, as it relates to what comprises attraction, that's purely subjective.

 

What I consider attractive/hot, not everyone else does. But part of what's attractive in a man, is that he's courteous and doesn't troll websites or have troll tantrums and toddler freak out sessions on people. He also has to know what being a man means, which includes having a strong sense of self, living by a reasonable code of ethics. Chivalrous.

 

Weak men are beyond pitiful.

[dasein]

I have seen that sentiment in men I have meet/know and see/hear it online.

 

Couldn't puzzle out the rest of your post, but have never heard of a sane, adult man claiming he was doing women some kind of favor by not raping them. That sounds like something out of some bizarre Andrea Dworkin rant or a "talking point" in a women's studies class more than any thing a real human male said.

 

Please prove me wrong, as I'd like the novelty of seeing where a man stated or implied something so outrageous and absurd, and it would be worth eating crow over. Unlike the feminist side (Dworkin, Solanas, etcetcetc), there just aren't many amusing raving loons among antifeminists, maybe the Sodini guy or the nut in Norway, but they aren't really LOL funny in the way lots of feminists are.

 

BTW, no random anonymous troll comments on a blog somewhere or by teenagers, it has to be actual identifiable sane, adult man who said that or the equivalent of it, that men are doing women a favor by not raping them.

[dasein]

Chivalrous.

 

Weak men are beyond pitiful.

 

Irony, in that for the tiny sliver of historical time that true chivalry existed in the world, it was a sublimated way of supplicating and affirming ones subordination to a man, not a woman, either the king or a noble via his queen or wife. Chivalry is by definition "weak and pitiful" in this way. Chivalry was a form of ass-kissing the powers that be, affirming one's weakness. After you swore fealty to the crown like a good supplicant, the only way to "enhance" that level of your subordination, the only way to pledge more loyalty, to kiss more ass, was by "chivalrous" gestures made toward the queen or another prominent member of the royal court. Pure politics, nothing more, thoroughly unknown to 99% of the population not involved in courtly maneuvering.

 

Actual chivalry, "courtly love," was essentially the same as the old SNL skit with the two "toady guys" who constantly ooooeeed and aaaahed while bowing in a pathetically supercilious, sycophantic way, mere currying political favor, not doing anything sincerely courteous or "nice" for women. Chivalry, at least historically is the very embodiment of expressing one's acknowledgement of being weak and suborinate, the equivalent of groveling, rolling over and showing one's belly while whimpering.

 

Other than the above, chivalry was PURELY a literary convention, a plot device in poetry and novels. The mistaken version of chivalry women love to nostalgize about never existed outside of novels.

 

But IME most women today don't really care to distinguish between truth and fiction, especially if that means they may lose some "free goodie" treatment of the past. If it was in a novel, movie or on TV, and favorable to women, that's "good enough" as far as truth is concerned. Nice to see some exceptions here on LS who recognize chivalry for what it really is though.

[udolipixie]

Couldn't puzzle out the rest of your post,

 

Couldn't puzzle out because it stated your previous behavior of when show misogynistic/hateful attitudes towards women you either excused it, minimized it, or called troll then summed it up with if there's any pervasive attitude of misogyny in today's culture much of it resulted from feminism...?...

 

I have met/known many young and old men claiming he is doing women some kind of favor by not raping them.

 

I have met/known many young and old men claiming men are doing women some kind of favor by following chivalry aka chivalry = not raping them.

 

I do like how you seem to consistently bring up Dworkin ranting and women's studies classes when given experiences/provided with guys of negative/hateful/extreme sentiments.

 

To me it doesn't sound like ranting/women's studies class more than any thing a real human male said as many real human males say such things.

 

More like many guys I meet/know.

 

Really more like guys I see/hear in MRA and anti-feminism.

 

My experiences and what I've seen/heard already do already prove you wrong.

 

You've already when show misogynistic/hateful attitudes towards women either excused it, minimized it, or called troll then summed it up with if there's any pervasive attitude of misogyny in today's culture much of it resulted from feminism.

 

If you'd like to be prove yourself wrong browse some MRA, anti-feminism, anti-American women, anti-marriage sites, blogs, forums, and chatrooms. I doubt it'll take long. If in a rush check youtube videos.

 

I do like how yet again there's the women majority bad & men minority bad dichotomy. This minority bad in MRA and anti-feminism is a different experience from myself and many gals and guys who are friends, I've met, and know.

[wwwjd]

No matter.

 

Chivalry exists here and now in its present defintion:

2. courteous behaviour, esp towards women

 

Many men now are STILL Chivalrous reguarless of what print or online articles say. Some men like being nice to ladies, many ladies still enjoy it.

Not going away anytime soon.

 

... until those mannerless kids grow up into the non courteous adult lugheads they will become. Then it might die off due to lack of practice by the marching morons.

[dasein]

No matter.

 

When you use a commonly misunderstood word that no one really knows what is being talked about when it is used, it's better to say...

 

courteous behavior towards women,

 

something most people would understand.

 

Not going away anytime soon.

 

mannerless ...lugheads... morons.

 

List out as many epithets as you like, yeah, it's going away, sooner rather than later. Once population growth ramps up to the next level in fact, especially once there's anything resembling a population crisis in the West involving clean water, food, etc., you will see just how fast it goes away and just how fast the "women and children first" ethos reverses. Once it goes away it won't come back unless and until extinction is ever a small or large scale possibility again.

 

Of course it will always remain for weak men unable to achieve sex other than by trading resources or showing supplication, women love the freebies, sure but despise those men at their core though, which is why they take such delight in duping them and cheating on them at every opportunity with the non resource trading males they truly respect.

[udolipixie]

I don't know where you're getting these opinions from but they're way off the mark.

I'm getting these opinions from dating advice geared to women and men.

 

I'm getting these opinions from dating advice women and men give to their sex and the opposite sex.

 

I'm getting these opinions from my experiences/observations of women and men.

 

There tends to be no free pass regardless of gender with the exception in some scenarios if you have wealth, status, and/or power.

 

I'm not talking about accountability in the legal system.

 

I'm talking about the whole if you want a man to be X you inspire it advice geared mainly to women while guys get 'put your foot down or leave'.

 

It suggests to me that men are controlled by women and have no accountable for their actions. That men get told not to put up with bad behavior from women while women get told to reward bad behavior in hopes it'll change.

 

Let's take a town where if you commit a crime you're held accountable and men are advised if you want X in women you inspire it. People being held accountable for crimes doesn't negate to me that the advice suggests that women aren't accountable for their actions.

 

Different experiences on 'the man up' from mine:

'Man up' as take whatever abuse is being thrown at you without responding seems to be for career/life.

 

'Man up' as put your foot down and demand what you want as you're a man so you're the leader/in charge and leave if you don't get it seems to be for dating/relationships.

 

Yes there's abusive men out there but some men are sick of these men being used as examples of typical male behaviour.

How does me disagreeing with the if you want X you inspire it in a man have anything to do with abusive men being used as examples of typical male behavior?

 

We're also sick of listening to stories from women "victims" who reward this behaviour by dating/marrying them and then pretending that all men are like that or that they were somehow forced into these situations.

How does me disagreeing with the if you want X you inspire it in a man have anything to do with being sick of negative male portrayals?

 

Furthermore I find your posts here very inflammatory and yet you're not being held to the same account as a man would be if he posted in a similar manner.

How are my posts inflammatory?

 

I'm not personally attacking anyone.

I'm not stating all or most of a group with a negative attribute.

I'm not stating a negative attribute as a general or fact to a group.

 

I'm stating I met/know many guys with misogynistic or hateful sentiments.

I'm stating I see/hear many guys with misogynistic or hateful sentiments.

Edited April 22, 2012 by udolipixie

[wwwjd]

List out as many epithets as you like, yeah, it's going away, sooner rather than later. Once population growth ramps up to the next level in fact, especially once there's anything resembling a population crisis in the West involving clean water, food, etc., you will see just how fast it goes away and just how fast the "women and children first" ethos reverses. Once it goes away it won't come back unless and until extinction is ever a small or large scale possibility again.

 

seems like you are HAPPY that our courtesies will go away?

that seems odd to me.

[wwwjd]

Let's take a town where if you commit a crime you're held accountable and men are advised if you want X in women you inspire it. People being held accountable for crimes doesn't negate to me that the advice suggests that women aren't accountable for their actions.

 

Wtf? No, really, I mean wtf are you saying here? I find no course of logic or statement other than... no.. I have no idea. Something inspiring, then women are accountable...

 

can somebody ELSE sort this out and spill it to me in dumb guy talk? I have no clue what the heck those sentances are meaning.

 

I'm not condescending, I really do not understand udoli-speak and hope someone will interpret to me. PLease?

[dasein]

seems like you are HAPPY that our courtesies will go away?

that seems odd to me.

 

Courtesy will remain, and will favor all people. Gender and child based special treatment will go away as women become more equivalent to men in physical strength. I believe technology within the next 50-75 years will give people much more control over the shape and capabilities of their bodies. If a woman wants to have male strength and body performance and still have a shapely, feminine body, she will be able to have that. Just one example. When the possibility of extinction goes away, "women and children first" goes away.

 

You did want equality right?

[wwwjd]

Naw, I don't care about equality.... I'm positive it will never exist because we are different.

[dasein]

I'm not condescending, I really do not understand udoli-speak and hope someone will interpret to me. PLease?

 

She does great in some respects for a non native english speaker. The doctrinaire feminist talk (stick and hole, men as lowest common denominator, typical frequent misogyny calling) and endless hair-splitting irrelevant distinctions is where she loses me.

[wwwjd]

She does great in some respects for a non native english speaker. The doctrinaire feminist talk (stick and hole, men as lowest common denominator, typical frequent misogyny calling) and endless hair-splitting irrelevant distinctions is where she loses me.

 

THAT'S IT isn't it?!?!?!?! English is not their main language?? Sure seemed like that was the issue!! I bet you are right. Do you know for certain? Cuz I can read the words, but they are not making any sense to me.

 

Yeah... I can't handle the side track craziness anymore.

[dasein]

I have met/known many young and old men claiming he is doing women some kind of favor by not raping them.

 

If this is truly the case where you live, I sincerely hope you are able to get out of there. That attitude in a man is unheard of in the U.S. other than trolls, and a handful of total nutjobs, or at least I've never heard such.

 

I do like how you seem to consistently bring up Dworkin ranting and women's studies classes when given experiences/provided with guys of negative/hateful/extreme sentiments.

 

The reason I do that is that "men generally feel they are doing us a favor by not raping us" is exactly the kind of thing you would find in Dworkin or the S.C.U.M. Manifesto. As much as I rail on feminism, I've never heard non wackjob feminists claiming that is anywhere near a common male attitude.

 

If you'd like to be prove yourself wrong browse some MRA, anti-feminism, anti-American women, anti-marriage sites, blogs, forums, and chatrooms. I doubt it'll take long. If in a rush check youtube videos.

 

I'm not the one who claimed lots of men feel that way. I -know- that they do not feel that way. If you want to claim they do, prove it.

 

I do like how yet again there's the women majority bad & men minority bad dichotomy. This minority bad in MRA and anti-feminism is a different experience from myself and many gals and guys who are friends, I've met, and know.

 

I'm trying to be good natured about this, and not make this into a rant about feminism. You feel entitled due to your doctrinaire beliefs to make the statement "a common attitude among men is that they are doing women a favor by not commiting rape." I don't find this personally insulting, because I know I don't feel that way, but I do find it outrageously inflammatory, and probative of everything I say about feminism here on LS.

[wwwjd]

AND WE'RE BACK AT "CHIVALRY TODAY"

with our special guests live all over the internet.

 

Hello caller, thank you for being Chivalrous and waiting. What courtesy can I extend to you today?

 

caller: Thanks Hank, and I must say you look quite dapper in the dark blue coat today! You can hold the door for me ANYTIME!

 

Hank: Mom? is that you again? ha ha! But seriously thanks for the compliment. What is on your mind?

 

Caller: you know what grinds my gears, Hank?

 

Hank: If I was a mind reader I would know, but that is why I asked what is on your mind...

 

caller: Cute. anyway, what bugs me is those douche bag guys that ride around in the passenger seat of their girlfriends car, all reclined and smug like while their girl drives him around like she's a slave. I'm sure all the feminists will pipe up and say "shes independant yadda yadda" but it is obvious to see it's not his car - it's clean and... well... you know, a non-guy style car, a small Chevy or whatever... and she drives him around all over, and he looks like some jobless king. I mean why do girls put up with that? I know I don't really know the situation...

 

Hank: caller, we are short on time here...

 

caller: ok, ok, I mean I don't really know the story but they way it looks, to me anyway, is just sad. It's that whole Kevin Federline attitude thing going on, and the women look like they are being held hostage by a criminal and forced to drive them around. Do guys no longer have any pride? Cute girl with a frown on her face, douchbag guy in the passenger seat texting or whatever like she's his limo driver.... do you know what I mean...

 

Hank: Yeah, I've seen that...

 

Caller: I see it a lot! A lot, hank. What has happened to Chivalry? He should be glad she gives him the time of day, let alone be the taken for granted chauffer. I tell ya, Hank, guys like that need a swift kick in the

 

[click] Hank: aaaaand we're out of time here on CHIVALRY TODAY, the show where manners and courtesy are NOT a thing of the past, women are cherished and men are polite. This is obviously NOT a "Reality Show".

On behalf of myself the the technical crew, good night and keep being nice!

[udolipixie]

Wtf? No, really, I mean wtf are you saying here?

 

I'm saying that just there are laws holding people accountable for their crimes doesn't mean there isn't advice that suggest men/women aren't accountable for their actions in other areas.

 

Let's take a town where if you commit a crime you're held accountable and men are advised if you want X in women you inspire it.

Everyone is accountable by laws for crimes

Women aren't accountable by advice for other actions

 

People being held accountable for crimes doesn't negate to me that the advice suggests that women aren't accountable for their actions.

Being held accountable in one area doesn't necessarily mean you're held accountable in all areas

[wwwjd]

You gals on here can whine about sexism all you like.

 

I'm STILL going to:

 

- buy you flowers

- pay for your dinner

- open doors for you

- say you look pretty (not handsome)

- lead while dancing

- listen and let you cry all over my nice shirt while your head rests gently on my chest

- try to protect you in public

- enjoy making you smile

- and feel proud you are by my side

[Woggle]

I'm quite unsure of how women punishing innocent men for others actions goes with the me disagreeing with the if you want a man to be X you inspire it advice to women. As when women aren't acting the way a man way he's often told to 'put his foot down' or leave aka seems men get told not to put up with bad behavior from women while women get told to reward bad behavior in hopes it'll change.

 

For you how does if you want a man to be X inspire it and me disagreeing with it correlate to women punish innocent men for the actions of others?

 

I just dislike the advice mainly peddled to women to 'if you want your man to be X inspire it' while seem to be told 'if you want X tell her to be it or leave and get it'. I think the latter is best suited to be the main advice for both guys/gals.

 

What I mean by punishing is that once women get their share of drama they then decide to get back at men by putting men who have done nothing to them through hell.

 

I have never cheated on a woman ever. I admit I am not perfect but I am honest yet that did not stop the chorus of you go girl cheering from the women in my wife's circle when she cheated on me with half the neighborhood. I still get angry thinking about it sometimes. There are some women who see it as a victory for girl power when a woman screws a man over no matter he himself might have done.

 

I never said that woman should put up with bad behavior from men but if they want to do better in their relationships not being a manhater who treats anybody with a penis like garbage might be a good start. The same goes for men. If you want a good woman than be a good man and vice versa. This is what I mean by inspiring that desire in a man to go the extra mile. Treat others the way you want them to treat you.

[udolipixie]

She does great in some respects for a non native english speaker. The doctrinaire feminist talk (stick and hole, men as lowest common denominator, typical frequent misogyny calling) and endless hair-splitting irrelevant distinctions is where she loses me.

 

Coming from when someone who when show misogynistic/hateful attitudes towards women you either excused it, minimized it, or called troll then summed it up with if there's any pervasive attitude of misogyny in today's culture much of it resulted from feminism

 

No men as lowest common denominator from me.

 

No hair splitting from me that seems to be you going by your frequent changing the requirements for what constitutes as misogyny it has to have X Y Z and A B C rather than a hateful attitude towards women because they are women.

[udolipixie]

If this is truly the case where you live, I sincerely hope you are able to get out of there. That attitude in a man is unheard of in the U.S. other than trolls, and a handful of total nutjobs, or at least I've never heard such.

It's not exactly something to get away as some level of that sentiment or a similar one exists in many from as far I can see.

 

It's like saying you can escape shallowness by moving to a different area a bit illogical as there are many shallow people in varying degrees.

 

The reason I do that is that "men generally feel they are doing us a favor by not raping us" is exactly the kind of thing you would find in Dworkin or the S.C.U.M. Manifesto. As much as I rail on feminism, I've never heard non wackjob feminists claiming that is anywhere near a common male attitude.

I'm unsure as to why you're quoting that as I never stated, suggested, or implied anything close to that.

 

When did I say men generally feel they are doing us a favor by not raping us?

 

I said I know/met many men who feel that and see/hear many men who feel that.

 

I did not attribute it to all, most, or men in general.

 

Though it is interesting that talking about a type of men that have negative attitudes towards women you go men in general, Dworkin, and women's studies.

 

I'm not the one who claimed lots of men feel that way. I -know- that they do not feel that way. If you want to claim they do, prove it.

I offered you-

You've already when show misogynistic/hateful attitudes towards women either excused it, minimized it, or called troll then summed it up with if there's any pervasive attitude of misogyny in today's culture much of it resulted from feminism.

 

If you'd like to be prove yourself wrong browse some MRA, anti-feminism, anti-American women, anti-marriage sites, blogs, forums, and chatrooms. I doubt it'll take long. If in a rush check youtube videos.

 

 

I'm trying to be good natured about this, and not make this into a rant about feminism. You feel entitled due to your doctrinaire beliefs to make the statement "a common attitude among men is that they are doing women a favor by not commiting rape." I don't find this personally insulting, because I know I don't feel that way, but I do find it outrageously inflammatory, and probative of everything I say about feminism here on LS.

I'm unsure as to why you're quoting that as I never stated, suggested, or implied anything close to that.

 

I said it's common in many men who feel that and see/hear many men who feel that.

These sentiments are quite common in the young men that I meet/know and seem to be quite common in the older men going by what I see/hear they say online and the masses contributing to such movements/notions.

 

I did not attribute it to all, most, or men in general.

 

Again there's this assumption of a belief or indoctrination.

 

Similar as to you during discussions saying that I was being lead by a woman's studies professor or had been indoctrinated by a woman's studies class. When I made no statements as to what I identify myself as or my classes.