Men and emotions

[AllieKat]

So if any of you read a post I made I said hubby said he wanted a divorce! If not basically we got in fight and I ran my mouth and said i was sick of our marriage! I know that was wrong and low!

 

So he told me the other day he no longer cares for me and no longer wants to be my daughters "father"! Nice huh? He said he didnt want to talk about anything and has no feelings at all about me! So why if he doesnt care is he so damn mad? He has since said very hurtful things and acts like I had an affair and he barely will speak to my daughter who up until last week he adored!

How can you just stop loving a child youve been a father to for 9 years, and hes also avoiding being around us as much as he can!

He never was meant or hateful or nasty to my daughter or me the entire time we were married.

Is it possible the anger is from hurt?

I just dont quite understand him

[Woggle]

You said you threatened divorce twice for pretty much no reason. Maybe he is just sick of the drama. Divorce is not something you should throw around unless you mean it.

[carhill]

Most anger is from hurt, whether present hurt or past hurt.

 

Part of being an adult is understanding that choices have consequences. Once you told him you were sick of the M that's out there. Whatever happens now is new, with that perspective being part of your marital history.

 

I'd give him some cave time and see how it goes. If you wish to address your marital issues, try suggesting MC in a month or so. IMO, it would be healthy to clear the air and MC is a great place to do that. An early poster in the other thread suggested leaving him alone for awhile; that's 'cave time'. Men process emotions differently than women do. When suggesting MC, make it about you, that you want to better understand why you'd say such a dramatic and potentially hurtful statement that you were sick of the marriage. Try that.

[tojaz]

So if any of you read a post I made I said hubby said he wanted a divorce! If not basically we got in fight and I ran my mouth and said i was sick of our marriage! I know that was wrong and low!

 

So he told me the other day he no longer cares for me and no longer wants to be my daughters "father"! Nice huh? He said he didnt want to talk about anything and has no feelings at all about me! So why if he doesnt care is he so damn mad? He has since said very hurtful things and acts like I had an affair and he barely will speak to my daughter who up until last week he adored!

How can you just stop loving a child youve been a father to for 9 years, and hes also avoiding being around us as much as he can!

He never was meant or hateful or nasty to my daughter or me the entire time we were married.

Is it possible the anger is from hurt?

I just dont quite understand him

 

It is quite common and almost instinct to respond to hurt with hurt. You struck him hard by attacking the marriage and by extension him, he retaliated by using what he thought would hurt you the most.

 

Hes mad, but hes also hurt, the easiest way to stop hurting is to create distance, and the easiest way to create distance is to alienate. We all know this isn't the truth, but it is a common first instinct. Break the tit for tat cycle and see what happens.

 

TOJAZ

[trippi1432]

AllieKat - Please stop having so many expectations around him having responsibility to your child....ultimately, she is your responsibility. I will agree, men do process emotions differently and they need their "cave time"...so give it to him and quit trying to figure him out. That's what they do when their feelings are hurt. We think that they are not being cooperative and try to force a reconciliation out of our own hurt and anger. They don't forget...forgive maybe...but forget, not when it comes to pride and ego. Even his friends and a few female ones think you are nuts. I mean, how could he be a jerk, his friends all think he is a great person and all...it must be hormones.

 

Women, on the other hand, go into silent treatment when they are hurt and are banished as being manipulative and vindictive because men are fixers and hate being in the dog house...so they will do what they can to fix it...duct tape, band-aid (yes, I felt that thump LS) But, women don't forget either....forgive perhaps, but forget...never, we already told all our friends and they hate you as much as we do at the moment.

 

Let's be honest, when we want to gender specific love language, we could have an all out thread war. Whether you are the wife or the husband...never, ever, ever threaten divorce unless you want to find yourself divorced....first lesson. Second lesson....never, ever expect someone else to love your kid as much as you. Whether the child's father is present or absent, you cannot hold another man accountable for YOUR child no matter what they do or don't do. For as many times as women hear they are just looking for a "baby daddy", there are just as many men who use the kids to get close to the mom.

 

Now, to say that he says that he does not care for your daughter because he does not care for you any more is telling in two ways: 1. The dominance of the relationship was dependent on him caring about your child and being a father figure to her for you to love him (huge pressure, or his perception) or 2. He thinks he can only love her if he loves you and that is in jeopardy (less pressure because he can walk away clean).

 

Stop making him accountable for your child...from a woman's perspective, letting a man around our kids is hard,...at then end of our children growing up and leaving home, we are left with two people...that's where it started...it's also where it should eventually end. What is in the middle is where it's not about you, your daughter and him with nothing else matching up. More to this story that is not being told here. Being married and in a relationship is not just about our children...it's about how two people grow together and share a life, and in a life that includes other children, it's about balance, right now, we are only hearing about how this affects you and your perception. Sorry to come down on you this hard, but the hurt is harder when children are in the middle.

[AllieKat]

Well, I definately didnt type everything it would probably be pages! The only main thing maybe to say is this fight happened 4/3 and during that time I cried, begged and all that other stupid stuff to try have him forgive! Ive apologized too! He was still adoring my daughter up until we had words Sunday! After a lot of words and me pushing him to talk he said hes done with her! Now I must say I asked him how he could not give it a chance for our Family and he said what family? Im not a father!!

 

I guess it just seems hurtful to hear him say that after he took the rule on and has claimed to be her father all these years. He just took his ring off this past Tuesday and I havent bothered him at all since our Sunday fight! I am impatient i think thats why i havent let him alone since this started! He says there is nothing to talk about

 

How much time do I give him? Im assuming as long as he needs?

I guess as time passes I feel like it become more hopeless!

[analystfromhell]

Without daring to speak for your husband, as a father myself and with several adopted/mixed marriage brothers and sisters it's very tough for me to believe your husband is not just as unequivocally, unconditionally tied to your daughter and her well being as you are.

 

Trippi above was incredibly insightful I think- his reaction is a protection mechanism. I cannot image how I might react if my family situation was such that my relationship with my kids was in jeopardy. On second thought, I can imagine as during the breakup of my first marriage every single effort of mine went into ensuring continued and constant contact with the kids. Make no mistake, after nine years, ESPECIALLY for a father as caring as your husband sounds, breaking the bond with the child is as tough or tougher than breaking a bond with you. He's very much hurt- he trusted you, loves you and feels unexpectedly rejected and is acting on instinct.

 

Counseling sounds like a great option as any mixed messages or on again/off again on your part would be very confusing to me and by extension, I assume, for him.

[NXS]

He was still adoring my daughter up until we had words Sunday! After a lot of words and me pushing him to talk he said hes done with her! Now I must say I asked him how he could not give it a chance for our Family and he said what family? Im not a father!!

 

What did you say to him Sunday?

 

I guess it just seems hurtful to hear him say that after he took the rule on and has claimed to be her father all these years. He just took his ring off this past Tuesday and I havent bothered him at all since our Sunday fight! I am impatient i think thats why i havent let him alone since this started! He says there is nothing to talk about

 

He may now see his role completely differently than before after the divorce threats. Up to that point he seen himself as her father and behaved accordingly. Now he's probably thinking that if you divorce then his true position will be facing him - loss of contact, no real influence in her life, not her biological father etc. He's had a kind of wake up call about his real position.

[2.50 a gallon]

Yes he is hurt, but it is not so much his ego and pride, but his ability to trust you

 

Think of the time line. He loves you and marrys you because he wants to the rest of his life with you. You and your daughter are a package deal and he takes on the role of father. But is is only a role, you have the power there.

 

From the sounds of it you had a pretty happy relationship for years, then during a minor argument you bring up divorce. His thought are where did that come from? He probably had never considered divorcing you. It awakes him to an idea he had never entertained, and that is that you have the power to divorce him at any time and take away the child he has learned to love as a father. He is powerless. This gets him to thinking that his marriage is not a rock solid as he had been lead to believe. He now sees the marriage as cracked and failing

 

Strike One!

 

He withdraws and you eventualy talk him in to reconciling. The marriage goes on, but you do not realize how damaged his view of the marriage is. The idea that you could leave, divorce him and take away the child he has grown to love is still floating around in his head. And from his point of view he can no longer blindly trust you. It is the old you fooled me once and I am going to be on guard, preparing himself for the day you say it again.

 

And then you go an mention divorce again.

 

This time he was prepared, looked at the marriage and from his point of view can no longer trust you, and your vows till death do us part have been shattered.

 

That is the crux of the problem, as the truth is he no longer trusts you. And how can a man stay in a marriage where he can not totally trust his wife. So he is in the process of detaching and pulling away, for his own mental and emotional health.

 

He took you at you word that you no longer want to stay in this marriage.

 

He sees you as wanting a divorce. And that is a threat that you will take away a child that he has grown to love.

 

His future is no longer safe with you. You see him as trying to hurt you and your child, but I see him as detaching

 

He sees you as having fooled him once, and now twice and can no longer trust you and it is as simple as that

Edited April 21, 2012 by 2.50 a gallon

[2.50 a gallon]

In some ways my story is similar.

 

Shortly after our vows, my Ex and I began to argue over money. We had just tied the knot and were indebt up to our ears, and her co-workers were encouraging her to spend close to a thousand dollars for these self realization cult classes. While what we needed was to get us a second car, pay down some of our debt and start saving for the house to raise

our kids.

 

For weeks it was a constant battle, with her co-workers taking everything that I said or did to make it sound as if I was so some of control freak.

 

About 4 months into the marriage, she brought up the possibility of divorce. This totaly shattered my trust in her. Yes we might argue, but I had never considered the possibilty that we might divorce.

 

The next day she backed down and we tried to reconcile.

 

Two months later when I went to have a surprise lunch with her at her work place on our 6 month anniversary, I got the surprise as I caught her kissing one of the company guards.

 

She later claimed she was only doing it as a dare from her female co-workers.

 

I had never healed from her mentioning divorce and for me the marriage was over. I kicked her out and even though she later begged to try again, and even though I still did love her, it was too late, I no longer trusted her, and walked away from the marriage.

 

So if you truly want to win him back it is going to take a lot of work on your part. And forget the idea that he is purposely trying to hurt you and your child. Quite simply he is pulling back all of the emotions that he has every felt to the two of you and is walling up his walls so that you can never hurt him again.

[carhill]

OP, have you ever seen a dog you own lay on its back and expose its belly for you? That's not normal behavior in the competitive dog world but there is a level of familiarity and animal 'trust' between dog and owner which facilitates the voluntary display of submission and vulnerability. When a man loves a woman, he exposes his 'belly', that part of him few others experience due to the nature of how men succeed in the world and become attractive to women. It sounds like he's closed the belly off from you for now. You're seeing some of what we other men see when dealing with men out in the world. Welcome

[NXS]

Yes he is hurt, but it is not so much his ego and pride, but his ability to trust you

 

Think of the time line. He loves you and marrys you because he wants to the rest of his life with you. You and your daughter are a package deal and he takes on the role of father. But is is only a role, you have the power there.

 

From the sounds of it you had a pretty happy relationship for years, then during a minor argument you bring up divorce. His thought are where did that come from? He probably had never considered divorcing you. It awakes him to an idea he had never entertained, and that is that you have the power to divorce him at any time and take away the child he has learned to love as a father. He is powerless. This gets him to thinking that his marriage is not a rock solid as he had been lead to believe. He now sees the marriage as cracked and failing

 

Strike One!

 

He withdraws and you eventualy talk him in to reconciling. The marriage goes on, but you do not realize how damaged his view of the marriage is. The idea that you could leave, divorce him and take away the child he has grown to love is still floating around in his head. And from his point of view he can no longer blindly trust you. It is the old you fooled me once and I am going to be on guard, preparing himself for the day you say it again.

 

And then you go an mention divorce again.

 

This time he was prepared, looked at the marriage and from his point of view can no longer trust you, and your vows till death do us part have been shattered.

 

That is the crux of the problem, as the truth is he no longer trusts you. And how can a man stay in a marriage where he can not totally trust his wife. So he is in the process of detaching and pulling away, for his own mental and emotional health.

 

He took you at you word that you no longer want to stay in this marriage.

 

He sees you as wanting a divorce. And that is a threat that you will take away a child that he has grown to love.

 

His future is no longer safe with you. You see him as trying to hurt you and your child, but I see him as detaching

 

He sees you as having fooled him once, and now twice and can no longer trust you and it is as simple as that

 

This ^^^^^

 

He has put a lot of investment into your child - time/money/emotional etc, as a return for that investment he expected to be treated as a father and get the emotional rewards that come with it. To see your daughter grow up and love him as a father.

 

Now his position is no longer clear and in his mind the investment no longer looks solid, his role can be pulled at any time on your whim. He's had a stark wake up call and is no longer sure if it's worth all the effort. Nobody likes living on a knife-edge like that, having to wonder about their position constantly.

 

I think there are two possibilites here - 1. He may have decided he's out of there and is withdrawing in order to make a break or 2. He may be giving you a harsh lesson so that you don't ever mention it again.

 

Either way you'll have to give him space and remind him as much as possible that it wasn't a real threat and that it was just words said in the heat of the moment. That you deeply regret saying it and won't do so again. Also, that you think he's a wonderful father and she needs him to be there for her.

[AllieKat]

Thank you all for your insight/exp! We havent talked in days and he leaves if im home. I guess I know I effed up and I did start counseling to deal with my issues! Intentionall when we first fought and didnt speake we were both acting nutty obessing over our cell phone log to see who each other talked to and etc! That told me he still cared and wanted to know what I was up to. We then started being civil then he was better than civil, he fixed some stuff for me and we went out for pizza with friends, he folded my laundry, he ran to store for me and made a appetizer that I needed for work. It seemed as though he was forgiving me then the next day he was cold again! And this past sunday he was so cold it made me crazy so i insisted on pickung a fight i guess! I told him i wouldnt sign his divorce papers and that he better not walk out on our daugter. and told him he was cold! I also told him i wanted to see a MC he said go ahead but im not going. He said he didnt care if i want to bring tom dick or harry home he could careless what i do!! He did try to talk to me this past Tuesday by asking if i had time for him to take my car to autozone to check to see why C E LIGHT was on. I told him no! I have no time for you at all. I want to make up but the little comments about not being my daughters dad anymore peed me off! Oh yeah on easter i had him sign a card for her amd he wrote his name in it instead of daddy like he always has! That was sad

[trippi1432]

Thank you all for your insight/exp! We havent talked in days and he leaves if im home. I guess I know I effed up and I did start counseling to deal with my issues! Intentionall when we first fought and didnt speake we were both acting nutty obessing over our cell phone log to see who each other talked to and etc! That told me he still cared and wanted to know what I was up to. We then started being civil then he was better than civil, he fixed some stuff for me and we went out for pizza with friends, he folded my laundry, he ran to store for me and made a appetizer that I needed for work. It seemed as though he was forgiving me then the next day he was cold again!

 

Did you thank him or were you still stuck on your hurt and anger? If you were cold to him when he was being nice to you, perhaps that was the reason for his actions the next day.

 

And this past sunday he was so cold it made me crazy so i insisted on pickung a fight i guess! I told him i wouldnt sign his divorce papers and that he better not walk out on our daugter. and told him he was cold! I also told him i wanted to see a MC he said go ahead but im not going. He said he didnt care if i want to bring tom dick or harry home he could careless what i do!!

 

And this is where our behavior gets us to....granted, you are hurt, you are angry, but two wrongs don't make a right and, to be honest, you gave him an ultimatum about your daughter....when you force an issue like that, it's not going to end like you want it to.

 

He did try to talk to me this past Tuesday by asking if i had time for him to take my car to autozone to check to see why C E LIGHT was on. I told him no! I have no time for you at all. I want to make up but the little comments about not being my daughters dad anymore peed me off! Oh yeah on easter i had him sign a card for her amd he wrote his name in it instead of daddy like he always has! That was sad

 

What is sad AllieKat is that you do not see how your own actions got to this point. The part above, "I want to make up"....how can that happen for you? I mean, he's put the comment out there that he doesn't want to play daddy anymore, but I don't think you will either forget or forgive him for that comment...and it might take a lot of time for him to forget and forgive that you are being so forceful and sticking to just your hurt and anger.

[AllieKat]

@tri I thanked and even gave him a quicky hug to say thanks for doing those things. Next day he was weird again. I should not of acted at all like I have, which is why Im seeking advice on here. I will forgive him for what hes said deep down I know he couldnt mean it! I know he adores our daughter. I definately did push his buttons so now Im just giving him space and not bugging him! Im not sure what else to do since hes already told me talking is out! I guess I can hope he like me didnt mean the neg things we both said and hopefully we can mend this and learn to communicate better, it just feels hopeless right now :-(

[2.50 a gallon]

AK

 

I still think that you don't get it.

 

Think of the Divorce word in your marriage as a computer virus you can't get rid of. You put it there and can't get it out. So yes he is going to have good days, but during the night that virus pops up again, and he is back to page one.

 

If you want to get rid of the virus, you have to do anything in your power to reasure him of your desire to save this marriage. If he wants baked Alaska, fix it, if he asks you to go fishing with him and you can't stand the feel of worms in your hand, go fishing with him and bait his hook. If he wants sex on a trampoline, Do it. And it won't happen over night.

 

No more reponses like the Autozone scene.

 

Don't you get it he took a chance and reached out to you in a very small way and he feels that you stabbed him in the back

 

To be blunt, this is all of your doing and if you can not see that you are trying to blame shift and play tit for tat with him you have no chance of getting him back

 

"You got to know when to hold'em, know when to fold'em. Know when to walk away and know when to run"

 

It is your words and actions that have him thinking it is time to walk away and run

[AllieKat]

No I get it as to why Im in this situation! I just dont know how to fix it! Ive apologized and told him I love him and how much I appreciate him but it seems to make him more angry. He told me what he wants is for me to let him alone! Id gladly make him whatever he wants, or do whatever he wants, but he wants me to leave him alone! Maybe I am missing something? If he tells me to let him be shouldnt I do that?

[tojaz]

No I get it as to why Im in this situation! I just dont know how to fix it! Ive apologized and told him I love him and how much I appreciate him but it seems to make him more angry. He told me what he wants is for me to let him alone! Id gladly make him whatever he wants, or do whatever he wants, but he wants me to leave him alone! Maybe I am missing something? If he tells me to let him be shouldn't I do that?

 

Leave him be for awhile. Hes hurt, angry, and probably extremely on guard. I remember saying on another thread to think about it as an electric fence. He was shocked, he waited a bit and when he tried it again, he got zapped again. Hes not going to be in a rush to try it again.

 

Give him awhile to cool off. In the mean time, I would look at why you were so quick to react harshly. Hes going to need a very clear sign that its safe to come back before he will take the chance again.

 

TOJAZ

[AllieKat]

Thx tojaz- Im going to counseling cause I have some issues that actually have nothing to do with him! Ive been giving him his space so I will keep doing! Im just worried that eventually all the space will turn in to something that cant be fixed! It is so upsetting we were best friends and now its like we are roomates in our house!! I am worried about him though too! He isnt talking to anyone about this! He just sits in front of tv and looks awful! I cant imagine hes happy this way and still being here in this house with me!

[tojaz]

Thx tojaz- Im going to counseling cause I have some issues that actually have nothing to do with him! Ive been giving him his space so I will keep doing! Im just worried that eventually all the space will turn in to something that cant be fixed! It is so upsetting we were best friends and now its like we are roomates in our house!! I am worried about him though too! He isnt talking to anyone about this! He just sits in front of tv and looks awful! I cant imagine hes happy this way and still being here in this house with me!

 

Good for you going to counseling Allie.

 

I was in your H's shoes and one of the things I remember most was being so afraid of getting hurt even worse. My ex was my best friend as well and I miss that more then anything else, so i understand where your coming from there as well.

 

Im not saying stay away from him, NC or any of that, just give him a wide berth for awhile so he can collect his thoughts and settle a little bit. When the situation is a little more stable, a well timed and well thought out apology will mean a lot more to him and have a better chance of being heard. Good luck to you Allie and keep us posted.

 

TOJAZ

[AllieKat]

Im sorry for you too! Thats awful! Its been almost 3 weeks since we had the fight that led to this so I was afraid maybe that was such a long time for us to be fighting that maybe it was over! However as of yet he hasnt filed D or moved out so I will try to have hope till there is no more chance

[tojaz]

Im sorry for you too! Thats awful! Its been almost 3 weeks since we had the fight that led to this so I was afraid maybe that was such a long time for us to be fighting that maybe it was over! However as of yet he hasnt filed D or moved out so I will try to have hope till there is no more chance

 

3 weeks is a drop in the bucket in the scheme of things Allie, try not to panic. In the early stages, time is on your side. Take some time and read some of the threads here of some of the guys in his shoes, get an idea of what hes feeling on the other side.

 

Might give a little perspective when it comes time to reach out to him again (or when he reaches out to you)

 

TOJAZ

[AllieKat]

I need to add that during these 3 weeks Ive also spoken with Hubbys Dad, Bf, Grandmother and coworkers! He specifically told me after he found out I talked with his bf that he didnt want me calling him again so i didnt! But i did call two guys that work with him because I was concerned about his mental state! I didnt try to hide the calls but since we havent been talking I didnt mention it and this evening I noticed he had gone on to our att usage bill online and typed in the guys name in where the number goes so i know he knows! He never mentioned it to me though! Ughhh its really no wonder he doesnt talk yet to me i havent given him a chance to cool off without something else coming up!

[findingnemo]

I'm glad you're going for counseling, Allie.

 

Here is something I learned early in life. There are different kinds of people and you need to understand yourself and your partner. I discovered that words mean a lot to me. Especially those said in the heat of the moment or when someone is tipsy. I'm very careful with my words and usually say what I mean. So naturally, I take what people say to be the truth. Is it possible your H is like that too?

 

I find it very difficult to get along with people who say things out of the blue and then forget them. People who use words as a weapon and then say they didn't mean them. That's just me. I have learned that I can't change that and so I can't be with someone who is cavalier with their words.

 

While at counseling explore why you say some of the things you do. And try to figure out if your H is like me. If he is, you need to "undo" the damage with more words. Meaningful and sincere words that will leave no doubt in his mind that he is some sort of temporary person in your life. I'm sure you can do it.

[trippi1432]

AllieKat - No wonder he isn't speaking to anyone, you have already spoken to all of them on his behalf!! When someone says to let them be, you give them space. What you did by going to his family and (really????) his co-workers with concerns about his "mental state", was to put all the personal business that perhaps he would have rather remained private while he thought more about the situation. Not only does he now have to deal with the issues that got you both here, he has to deal with a lot of erratic behavior to boot.

 

Apologies, even heart-felt ones, mean little to someone if the behavior or actions that led to an apology do not change. You can bait hooks with worms, bake a hundred Baked Alaskas....but as long as your behavior continues to create these wedges in your relationship, you cannot say that you are truly sorry. It's only on the surface like a band-aid trying to cover a gaping hole. The true actions that would help this situation is really looking at the behavior that got you both here and being totally earnest in correcting that behavior. Example: your spouse cheats on you, brings you a dozen roses and says I will never do that again....but goes right out and does it again. A small action meant to band-aid wrongful behavior and no resulting true action that gives you any security that it won't happen again. This is where your husband is at....he has no safety in knowing that you won't continue this behavior.

 

I lived 15 years with someone who exhibited the same behavior over and over again...his apologies were always, "I'm sorry, but"....and the but part always came down to you or someone else causing the behavior to begin with. Even something as innocent as a child laughing could cause him to go off...and again, not his fault that he blew up, everyone else made him do it. That is called blame-shifting.

 

I hope that you are being honest with your counselor and working on the behavior pattern, not just working on this one situation and his reactions to your actions from just your perspective. You need to give him time and some space and stop these behaviors to make things worse. Understandably, you are in panic mode....but that is just going to work to drive him away. I still say that there is still more to this story......