january2011 Posted April 19, 2012 Posted April 19, 2012 "I swear to you that men tell me every single day that they are not attracted to women who wear black. They think that women who wear black are depressing. They think that women who wear black look older than they are." - Samantha Daniels From: "How To Date A Wall Street Guy" Matchmaker Actually Has Decent Dating Advice I realise that she's got something to shill and potentially 'shocking' no-nonsense advice will help her to drive the marketing for her business. Nonetheless, I thought her quote would make an interesting springboard for discussion. I used to wear a lot of black and my basic go-to items are still mostly black: suits, formal dresses, trousers, coat, shoes, gloves and other accessories. Over the last few years, I've begun to expand my wardrobe and wear more vibrant colours as well as lighter coloured neutral items. It does make me feel much more alive when I do so. Though black suits my colouring and doesn't drain it, as it does to some people. It's also been a common thing in female fashion to treat black as the go-to fail-safe colour for everything from the premise that it matches everything - though some disagree - and for it's 'slimming' qualities. However, I gather it's not necessarily to every person's taste in a date situation (see above quote) and cultural differences abound depending on location. I know that there's also literature on colour psychology and black is associated with death and mourning as well as power in many cultures. Some potential points for discussion: What are your individual thoughts and experiences regarding men and women wearing black or certain colours in dating as well as everyday situations?What about your own clothing choices? For example, do you make a conscious effort to wear more colourful clothing or certain colours because you know that they suit you?
oaks Posted April 19, 2012 Posted April 19, 2012 and for it's 'slimming' qualities. Some people have bodies that should be celebrated for the shape they are, which black doesn't do as well as other things. Apart from that, I don't have a problem with black unless it's the majority of the woman's wardrobe. 1
yongyong Posted April 19, 2012 Posted April 19, 2012 First of all, you don't have to be insecure about yourself after reading some online article. If I read something 'guys who wear slim fitting pants are more likely to be gay', I wouldn't care. I know I am not gay. I know it looks good on me. I know girls like my style. To answer your question, Black color can give out classy, status and sexy image when it's done right. I am talking about women with a nice body. If she is wearing a black to disguise her obese body, guys are not that dumb. I think it's obvious but as long as you wear tight black clothes with a style (what kind of women want to wear baggy clothes anyways), you should be fine. I saw this girl with black shiny leggins (that looks like kind of rubber) and I had to stare at her without her noticing me I'd love to ask a girl to wear a black dress (above knee length) with pearl necklace and take her to a wine bar This girl was wearing a black leather jacket. (not rock band or harley davidson style but hollywood style) I had to approach her by complimenting the outfit and got her number. I think the hottest pants for ladies at the gym are those black spandex one that ends right at the knee you can offset boring black attire by having bright color items (yellow purse, red heels, orange scarf, turquoise necklaces, gold spangle etc) Plus pay attention to its style. ugly shoes are still ugly no matter how beautiful color it has. I think black color is more appropriate at night time. you should wear something with vibrant color when you are walking around downtown, sitting at the patio, going to park and going to concert when it's sunny outside. Women have unlimited freedom to wear any colors they want while guys can't do that (inappropriate for the social setting, can be looked as a gay) so why don't you take advantage of that unfairness? Btw, I want to try Red and Sky blue pants for the summer (which is trend right now) I think ladies should be ok with it. I will get nervous though when I go to this coffee shop that has gay customers 1
Author january2011 Posted April 19, 2012 Author Posted April 19, 2012 First of all, you don't have to be insecure about yourself after reading some online article. I appreciate the concern, yongyong. However, I'm not feeling insecure after reading this article. I know which colours suit me and how to accessorise. I'm sure that other readers will find your advice very useful if they have any difficulties in this area. My aim for starting this thread was merely to stimulate some discussion based on a topical news item.
Jane2011 Posted April 19, 2012 Posted April 19, 2012 Are you talking about wearing black at all or wearing all black? (Sorry, don't have time to read the article in full). At any rate, I like seeing people in all black. I just think you have to mix it up and not wear all black every single day. I love seeing blond haired or light-haired people in all-black (or just a black top) because I like the contrast. I have black hair, so when I wear all-black clothing, I feel more "all black" than ever, even too much so. But I still do it occasionally if I feel like looking menacing. (I'm wearing a black sweater right now, but with light blue jeans) 1
Author january2011 Posted April 19, 2012 Author Posted April 19, 2012 (edited) Are you talking about wearing black at all or wearing all black? (Sorry, don't have time to read the article in full). Both, Jane, and also wearing an outfit that is mostly black. The article doesn't focus solely on wearing black - it's general advice from a professional matchmaker, specifically for women looking to date guys working on Wall Street. I just picked out the quote about wearing black and included it in the OP so that I had a reference to the source. Edited to add: In my neck of the woods, women wear a lot of black yet I also note that the guys tend to prefer women to be more colourful in their attire. It suggests that women might be doing themselves a disservice if they tend to stick to a lot of black clothing. I realise this is a fairly superficial topic, but I thought it might be interesting to discuss because clothing and appearance is all part of the package when dating. Edited April 19, 2012 by january2011
Jane2011 Posted April 19, 2012 Posted April 19, 2012 (edited) Both, Jane, and also wearing an outfit that is mostly black. The article doesn't focus solely on wearing black - it's general advice from a professional matchmaker, specifically for women looking to date guys working on Wall Street. I just picked out the quote about wearing black and included it in the OP so that I had a reference to the source. Edited to add: In my neck of the woods, women wear a lot of black yet I also note that the guys tend to prefer women to be more colourful in their attire. It suggests that women might be doing themselves a disservice if they tend to stick to a lot of black clothing. I realise this is a fairly superficial topic, but I thought it might be interesting to discuss because clothing and appearance is all part of the package when dating. Ah, I see. Well, to me, black clothing has two general associations, aura-wise: 1) chic/elegant, and 2) dark, depressing. I think both apply, but for whatever reason, in my mind, the second seems to slightly outweigh the first. This is why I personally would probably not wear a black top or "all black" on a first date with a guy. (I might wear black pants or jeans because that's not near my face.) I think the color does sort of make one look...well, depressed isn't the word...but just not necessarily happy/joyful to be around. If I were going on a date that I didn't care about at all, I might not think twice about it and just grab whatever. But if I care about the date at all, I'd maybe opt for a more vibrant/happy-looking color (or even white, which is supposed to make one's eyes sparkle); I'd let the guy get to know me as being of a general pleasant/cheerful disposition on a date or two before I wear a black top. It's not entirely the "dark, depressed" association either, though, like I said. I've been told, anyway, that just aesthetically, black isn't the best color for me. I don't think it is for most people, really. For chicness-factor and coolness-factor, it's a good color for everyone, but no one's best color, if that makes any sense. Edited April 19, 2012 by Jane2011 1
Anela Posted April 19, 2012 Posted April 19, 2012 (edited) When I was fifteen, and visiting Los Angeles for the first time, on vacation with my family, my Dad took us shopping to get a few things, and kept complaining about me looking at black things. He has always tried to get more colour into my wardrobe, and he's great about picking out clothes for the women in his life - he knows what he likes to see us in, and he's usually right. I like to wear various shades of red, with black or dark blue (jeans). I also like various shades of green and brown. Just switching it up to black trousers (nice ones), a feminine, dark brown top, and more feminine shoes, I had more positive attention (as opposed to throwing on jeans, a top and trainers or boots). I would love to wear lighter colours, if they didn't make my body parts look bigger. I had white trousers to wear with a royal blue top, but I felt like I stuck out awfully (and I thought the white made my thighs look big, but when I think back now, I was tiny). I like white tops, against my dark hair - similar to what Jane was saying, but again, the white tops make my chest look big, and I'm concerned about drawing more attention to it. That's my main reason for wearing darker colours. Edited April 19, 2012 by Anela 2
zengirl Posted April 19, 2012 Posted April 19, 2012 Black is not as popular in the SE where I live as it is elsewhere. Red is the go-to color for a Southern gal, IME. Certainly many women still have black clothes (and brown clothes and tan clothes and gray clothes -- neutrals are an important mix) but it's not their "sexy" color the way a "little black dress" is up North. Typically, it's red or -- if red doesn't suit them -- another vibrant color that most women I know would say is most attractive and powerful. I wear a lot of: butter yellow, greens, red, brown, purples, blues. I have some black stuff, but it's not the bulk of my wardrobe. I try to mix colors and neutrals, but I love colorful clothes. A lot of my business clothes are neutrals, though. I can't go so far as a really bright suit and even red suits look kind of garish to me, though red jackets look fine -- my suits are black, gray, blue (light & navy), brown, tan, butter yellow, and a grayish-sage type suit. But I'd never wear a suit on a date, personally. I'd wear something casual, like jeans & a nice top OR I'd wear a dress or skirt/top. So, I'd simply say that -- to me -- the business look has never been really a date look. Though I do sometimes wear non-business (but appropriate) clothes to work or mix and match. I frequently pair a suit jacket with a dress, if I can find combos that work. Then, you just take the jacket off for appropriate settings, and voila! 1
FitChick Posted April 19, 2012 Posted April 19, 2012 I dress according to my season defined by the Color Me Beautiful theory. Not every color looks good on everyone. Find out which season suits you best. Since I hate shopping, knowing my season has saved me countless hours in shopping malls and lots of money. 1
Author january2011 Posted April 19, 2012 Author Posted April 19, 2012 It's interesting that both Jane and Anela have dark/black hair but tend to avoid black. I also have black hair and find that black looks great on me! Zengirl - I think a suit would look too formal for an evening date but there are some dates, say, to the races or a garden party where a light coloured suit jacket would not be too out of place - though this tends to be seen on more middle-aged ladies and they'd pair it with a summer dress underneath. FitChick - I bought the CMB books in my early 20s and even had a consult - got matched to Deep Winter. It helped to confirm my colour preferences but since then I've tend to go for colours that just made me excited and happy rather than trying to match everything to the little book of swatches. I don't see much information about it these days and wondered if 'getting your colours done' was a bit passé these days.
Star Gazer Posted April 19, 2012 Posted April 19, 2012 This is an interesting discussion. I wear a lot of black to work, either in a full suit, dress, pants or skirt. That's where the majority of my black fits in. I was trained when I was a young associate at a fancy LA law firm that black and dark grey were the only appropriate colors for high end defense counsel to wear (and plaintiffs attorneys and government attorneys wear navy and brown, haha!). It was almost like a uniform. Thinking about the article, I realize now that black makes me feel like I come across a little more serious and tough. I know some attorneys who regularly wear tan or light grey suits, and when I look at them I perceive them as not as hardcore. Hmph. As for the rest of my closet, I have one black cocktail dress (although I wear it often) and a few black weekend (casual or going out) pieces. The rest of my wardrobe is actually quite colorful. Even when I wear something black, it's with something colorful. 1
FitChick Posted April 19, 2012 Posted April 19, 2012 I don't see much information about it these days and wondered if 'getting your colours done' was a bit passé these days. I've seen spinoffs of CMB where they divide people into as many as twelve different categories. I find it rather confusing. The money I spent getting draped years ago was worth every penny and I saved much more than that. CMB is still around but I don't know if you can get a personal consultation. 1
zengirl Posted April 19, 2012 Posted April 19, 2012 I dress according to my season defined by the Color Me Beautiful theory. Not every color looks good on everyone. Find out which season suits you best. Since I hate shopping, knowing my season has saved me countless hours in shopping malls and lots of money. I've done that and stick to that generally, though it changes when I color my hair a bit. But I like branching out of those colors as well -- there are many colors that are not suggested that look good on me too. I find that very useful for makeup colors, though. It's interesting that both Jane and Anela have dark/black hair but tend to avoid black. I also have black hair and find that black looks great on me! I have almost-black hair naturally (it's really very dark brown) but I typically brighten it up to a slightly lighter -- but still dark -- brown. Sometimes I dye it a reddish tint to make it a dark auburn. Sometimes I dye it proper black. Not THAT many colors I can do with my Japanese coloring. At any rate, when my hair is blackest is when I feel black looks the best on me. When it's not quite as dark, I feel like it has more potential to clash. Zengirl - I think a suit would look too formal for an evening date but there are some dates, say, to the races or a garden party where a light coloured suit jacket would not be too out of place - though this tends to be seen on more middle-aged ladies and they'd pair it with a summer dress underneath. Sure, that look seems old to me, though as you say. It doesn't feel right for me. The only place I feel right wearing suits or suit jackets is in a business setting. That's just me, though! Older ladies -- including my mother down in FL -- do what you're saying A LOT around here, and perhaps I'll adopt the same viewpoint when I'm in my 40s and 50s or perhaps not. Too far away to say. 1
AngelDollFace Posted April 19, 2012 Posted April 19, 2012 I wear black pretty much every day. I do it in a VERY elegant/chic/classy kind of way. I also wear high heels every day. I take pride in my appearance and I just feel very comfy in a little black dress- I own tons of them- they are all different but all equally classy and equally flattering. I have dated men who disliked it. My last boyfriend of 2 years told me at the end of our relationship: That going out with me was like going to a funeral. I was wearing a beautiful designer black dress that was over the knee in length, was backless and had a knot at the chest above the breast line that draped around my neck. It was beautiful. He was wearing dirty shorts and a ripped t-shirt- yet it was HE who criticized me. In the end I had to make a decision: SCREW HIM. If you don't like what I wear then go date someone else. I am proud of how I look. I never step out with a boyfriend looking anything less than exceptional (other than hiking and camping). I am a girl who a man should be proud to have on his arm and I decided that anyone who doesn't agree doesn't deserve to share space with me. Just my 2 cents. 2
Author january2011 Posted April 19, 2012 Author Posted April 19, 2012 (edited) Star Gazer - If I remember correctly, John Molloy wrote a book about appropriate dress depending on place of work/profession. He had four categories, A to D - with A being the most strict and professional and D being the most casual. He said that women had the most flexibility and could usually get away with outfits from A, B and sometimes C unless they were in a very strict dress code environment, such as corporate law. However, guys had to stick to A unless they were in professions such as architecture and medicine (B) where black and dark grey might be seen as too severe and not friendly enough. Fitchick - a quick Google brings up their website and it shows that they do offer consults in Europe. AngelDollFace - that's a bit sad, what your last boyfriend said about going out with you. Edited April 19, 2012 by january2011
FitChick Posted April 19, 2012 Posted April 19, 2012 Older ladies -- including my mother down in FL -- do what you're saying A LOT around here, and perhaps I'll adopt the same viewpoint when I'm in my 40s and 50s or perhaps not. Depends on the cut and style of jacket. Most older (and even younger) women wear jackets to disguise thicker waists and bigger hips. I'm guessing they wear hip length or longer jackets that are kind of boxy for that reason. There are some very sexy short jackets with nipped in waists and peplums -- vintage type -- that can be worn with clingy, low cut or lacy tops. Wearing a cardigan would be too casual looking, unless it was sparkly. 1
Star Gazer Posted April 19, 2012 Posted April 19, 2012 Star Gazer - If I remember correctly, John Molloy wrote a book about appropriate dress depending on place of work/profession. He had four categories, A to D - with A being the most strict and professional and D being the most casual. He said that women had the most flexibility and could usually get away with outfits from A, B and sometimes C unless they were in a very strict dress code environment, such as corporate law. However, guys had to stick to A unless they were in professions such as architecture and medicine (B) where black and dark grey might be seen as too severe and not friendly enough. I can definitely get away with a lot more than the men can. In my office, the men wear suits on court days (obviously, everyone does), and on non-court days, they're wearing dress pants, dress shirt, and a tie. That's it. I wear suits on court days, and have quite a variety every other day. Today, I'm wearing a dress and boots and nice jewelry. Yesterday, I wore dress pants, a frilly blouse, and a cardigan with open toe heels. But the common theme at work for me is the darker the better - it imbibes a "serious" vibe, I guess. Which is what a prosecutor's or any other law office is, I suppose. We're all really cheery, happy people on Friday's though... casual Friday (except for those who had court, and are in suits...they're not so happy!). 2
zengirl Posted April 19, 2012 Posted April 19, 2012 It makes sense, to me, that lawyers or other professionals with appearance standards based in historical 'pomp' would have a specific dress code, and color coding 'dark' colors for seriousness certainly makes sense. Most teachers tend to wear bright colors and it seems recommended for teacher interviews for the exact same (but opposite) reason, for instance. Appearance does impact our impressions! Depends on the cut and style of jacket. Most older (and even younger) women wear jackets to disguise thicker waists and bigger hips. I'm guessing they wear hip length or longer jackets that are kind of boxy for that reason. There are some very sexy short jackets with nipped in waists and peplums -- vintage type -- that can be worn with clingy, low cut or lacy tops. Wearing a cardigan would be too casual looking, unless it was sparkly. Right, that's why I said suit jackets. To me, a cropped jacket is not a suit jacket. A suit jacket can have a nipped in waist or not, but it's still not my style. I have coats I may wear with a dress if it's cold, as well as sweaters (cardigans, etc), and differing styles of jackets. Mostly I'd wear a coat or a wrap. But it's rare I need a coat with a jacket -- it's only cold here a few months out of the year, and that also drives the fashion. It's not as warm as Miami where I grew up, but still pretty warm. At any rate, many jackets are not suit jackets. I have a couple of military-style jackets for instance. I don't find them professional at all. 1
veggirl Posted April 19, 2012 Posted April 19, 2012 Wearing black too much is just BORING. It's *everyones* go-to. I am required to wear black or white at work. Yawn. I have very few out-of-work things I wear in black. I love color. I get compliments on how I dress all the time outside of work! Go to a dressy-ish social event--it's a room full of women in black dresses. Sure they look nice, but it's all the same. I'm not opposed to like, a black shirt and jeans on occasion and all that, but too many people rely on black too much! And of course brighter colors are more youthful. Another thing with too much black is that people will wear darker make up to match it. 1
Star Gazer Posted April 19, 2012 Posted April 19, 2012 You know, January, I'm thinking about some of my less-successful dates where I felt like conversation was a little too serious and I felt like the guy didn't really "get" me, and I *think* I had been wearing black tops on those dates. The locations of the dates were trendy/hip, and so I was doing the chic-thing, but maybe the simple color of my top gave off the wrong impression. Definitely something to think about. 1
Author january2011 Posted April 19, 2012 Author Posted April 19, 2012 You know, January, I'm thinking about some of my less-successful dates where I felt like conversation was a little too serious and I felt like the guy didn't really "get" me, and I *think* I had been wearing black tops on those dates. The locations of the dates were trendy/hip, and so I was doing the chic-thing, but maybe the simple color of my top gave off the wrong impression. Definitely something to think about. Interesting observation, Star. I've found that in casual settings, guys have reacted much better when I wear colour. But in more formal settings, in heels and an LBD that shows a little bit of skin, the reaction's been positive. I read a blog post last year where the author mentioned that men tend to see black as too masculine and to project feminine 'energy', it was better to go for more feminine and bright colours. Her theory was that most guys tend to prefer their women to look and behave like women. That is, colours such as black, dark grey and navy tend to be worn by men (most commonly as a traditional business suit or uniforms) and are considered masculine colours.
Star Gazer Posted April 19, 2012 Posted April 19, 2012 Interesting observation, Star. I've found that in casual settings, guys have reacted much better when I wear colour. But in more formal settings, in heels and an LBD that shows a little bit of skin, the reaction's been positive. I read a blog post last year where the author mentioned that men tend to see black as too masculine and to project feminine 'energy', it was better to go for more feminine and bright colours. Her theory was that most guys tend to prefer their women to look and behave like women. That is, colours such as black, dark grey and navy tend to be worn by men (most commonly as a traditional business suit or uniforms) and are considered masculine colours. Colors definitely make people think/feel certain ways, hence why hospital walls are light green and blue (calming), and fast food restaurants' decor is red, orange, yellow, and brown (inducing hunger). I've always recognized how color can affect environment, but I'd never thought about how it affects how we view each other based on the color of our clothes. But I think it's true... Hmm. 1
FitChick Posted April 19, 2012 Posted April 19, 2012 Zengirl, I bet this jacket would look cute on you. Great day to evening look. I wish it came in a different color and I'd buy it myself.
Star Gazer Posted April 19, 2012 Posted April 19, 2012 Zengirl, I bet this jacket would look cute on you. Great day to evening look. I wish it came in a different color and I'd buy it myself. That is the most 80's-inspired thing I've ever seen. No offense, FG... but, I hate it. Like, hate-hate.
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