This Is Not Suggested

[Els]

 

I find that behavior (and the comments ABOUT the potential dates) creepy, so I wondered if my thoughts on the subject were dissimilar to what most people think (as there is a certain "type" of poster on Jezebel, just like there is here.) This thread has confirmed that, yep, my opinion is different than most other people's.

 

FWIW, I really don't think you need to justify posting your topic. It is relevant to the board it was posted on, and you did not mock the man at all, even. We are all free to post what we like, as long as it conforms to the Comm Guidelines, and IMO yours did.

 

That being said, I'm curious why you found the comments about the dates 'creepy' in themselves? He does seem a little too looks-focused, but that isn't really 'creepy' IMO, just incompatible with some of us.

[verhrzn]

Or answer this, what was your intent in making this thread?

 

Here ya go:

 

I posted it as half-joking advice (because honestly, did it really need to be said?) but also because I wanted to gauge how abnormal my opinion about the situation was. In the article I posted, MOST of the comments are that aside from sending it out, the commentors had no problem with keeping a spreadsheet of potential dates.

 

I find that behavior (and the comments ABOUT the potential dates) creepy, so I wondered if my thoughts on the subject were dissimilar to what most people think (as there is a certain "type" of poster on Jezebel, just like there is here.) This thread has confirmed that, yep, my opinion is different than most other people's.

[zengirl]

Originally Posted by dasein

This isn't advised either:

 

Duke coed

 

but have had two women I dated from OLD, one for ten months, who kept a spreadsheet of various guys. NBD really, well NBD if a woman does it apparently, the sign of a hideous monster if a guy does it.... ewww CREEPY!!

 

The bolded and underlined is what's OT and seems to have an agenda not put forth in the OP that you assumed and injected into this thread. The rest is on-topic, absolutely, though I disagree with comparing the Duke coed to this guy. I won't expand on that in this thread, as, for reasons I've already stated, I'm not sharing my in depth thoughts on Duke lady.

[verhrzn]

FWIW, I really don't think you need to justify posting your topic. It is relevant to the board it was posted on, and you did not mock the man at all, even. We are all free to post what we like, as long as it conforms to the Comm Guidelines, and IMO yours did.

 

That being said, I'm curious why you found the comments about the dates 'creepy' in themselves? He does seem a little too looks-focused, but that isn't really 'creepy' IMO, just incompatible with some of us.

 

I think it's the... mechanical nature, he goes about it. Like it isn't just him trying to remember names and facts... notice how he doesn't include anything like "we both like tennis" or "she mentioned her grandma was Polish." He reduces them down to nothing but ages and bodies, and he even color-codes his interest in them... It turns the idea of chemistry and the fun of dating into something heartless, a competition or a, well, spreadsheet.

 

His specific comments are probably what really got me, particularly the "jappy" and "one and done." If he doesn't like these girls, why the heck not just leave em alone? Why does he feel the need to categorize them?

 

On a personal level, I am bothered by the idea that if this is such a widespread practice, I'm just a line of data in someone's OLD spreadsheet, where I'm not a whole person, just... "fat and big nose but good for a cum and dump."

 

Yeah, it was meant to be private, but like many things, intellectually knowing someone thinks that in their head and then seeing it written down are two different emotional experiences.

[zengirl]

That being said, I'm curious why you found the comments about the dates 'creepy' in themselves? He does seem a little too looks-focused, but that isn't really 'creepy' IMO, just incompatible with some of us.

 

I'm not V, but phrases like "one and done" really bother me (when men or women use them), though creepy seems a stretch. The phrase "jappy" also really bothers me, though it's used most often by Jewish guys. (I grew up in a mostly Jewish community in South Beach if you're wondering the context in which I've heard it.) The idea that it's okay for Jewish people to say it. . . eh, I'm not a fan, still. I'm not Jewish either. His fixation on looks bothers me a bit, but more the way he writes things that seem to have no connection to what the women have actually SAID to him. Again, none of this is damning. The guy seemed aware enough to realize he'd screwed up a bit, we all do, etc. I don't think I'd date a guy like that guy, but I see plenty of criticisms of his behavior that are valid. And someone else doing something worse doesn't invalidate those criticisms (not by my moral logic).

 

fwiw, I think the word "creepy" is often used when "shallow" or "immature" would be a better fit.

[verhrzn]

I'm not V, but phrases like "one and done" really bother me (when men or women use them), though creepy seems a stretch. The phrase "jappy" also really bothers me, though it's used most often by Jewish guys. (I grew up in a mostly Jewish community in South Beach if you're wondering the context in which I've heard it.) The idea that it's okay for Jewish people to say it. . . eh, I'm not a fan, still. I'm not Jewish either. His fixation on looks bothers me a bit, but more the way he writes things that seem to have no connection to what the women have actually SAID to him. Again, none of this is damning. The guy seemed aware enough to realize he'd screwed up a bit, we all do, etc. I don't think I'd date a guy like that guy, but I see plenty of criticisms of his behavior that are valid. And someone else doing something worse doesn't invalidate those criticisms (not by my moral logic).

 

fwiw, I think the word "creepy" is often used when "shallow" or "immature" would be a better fit.

 

Articulate and on the mark as usual.

 

The creepy is more about the cataloging and heartlessness of the spreadsheet than the guy himself.

[dasein]

The bolded and underlined is what's OT

 

Since pretty much -everyone- in the thread has agreed in essence, that the link from a well-known male bashing site -exaggerated- the wrongness of the man's behavior, my comment about the different treatment of women doing similar is completely topical, especially here on a dating board.

 

Moreover, anyone reading the thread and familiar with OP's hundreds of posts seeking to bash general male behavior doesn't need a connect the dots as to motive for the thread. No one needed the advice "don't send out a spreadsheet summarizing your dates to other dates," OP acknowledges this, and her further rationale is rather thin. If you think my posts are OT, REPORT THEM, and if the mods think they are, I will gladly abide their decision.

 

What's really going on here is obvious, any posts questioning similar female behavior in a thread obviously designed to bash male behavior spoil all the femfun here don't they?

[ThaWholigan]

I think it's the... mechanical nature, he goes about it. Like it isn't just him trying to remember names and facts... notice how he doesn't include anything like "we both like tennis" or "she mentioned her grandma was Polish." He reduces them down to nothing but ages and bodies, and he even color-codes his interest in them... It turns the idea of chemistry and the fun of dating into something heartless, a competition or a, well, spreadsheet.

 

His specific comments are probably what really got me, particularly the "jappy" and "one and done." If he doesn't like these girls, why the heck not just leave em alone? Why does he feel the need to categorize them?

 

On a personal level, I am bothered by the idea that if this is such a widespread practice, I'm just a line of data in someone's OLD spreadsheet, where I'm not a whole person, just... "fat and big nose but good for a cum and dump."

 

Yeah, it was meant to be private, but like many things, intellectually knowing someone thinks that in their head and then seeing it written down are two different emotional experiences.

Yes, this is where you will probably differ from a lot of people. I'm sure that it will garner certain emotional responses from both genders indeed, but I can personally say of myself that it does not matter how someone categorizes me in their heads - or their spreadsheets. If a girl actually sent it to me, I don't think I would react too hastily either, but that is just me.

 

Also, allow me to share one of my more personal and perhaps controversial views, which I don't do often. I kind of resent the way in which some girls seem to think that because some guys are more likely to notice a girl's body or something physical about them foremost, that we are somehow objectifying them or only whittling them down to just bodyparts. I've met a few girls who think like that, and I have to say on a deep level it annoys me. It implies that merely noticing a woman's body is offensive, which is absurd. Men like women's bodies. And they even differ in the kinds of bodies they like, even in the little physical details, which I know you don't seem to believe (understandable).

 

I get why it would piss you off, or any girl for that matter. But honestly, you should take a leaf out of my book and not give a damn .

[verhrzn]

Since pretty much -everyone- in the thread has agreed in essence, that the link from a well-known male bashing site -exaggerated- the wrongness of the man's behavior, my comment about the different treatment of women doing similar is completely topical, especially here on a dating board.

 

Moreover, anyone reading the thread and familiar with OP's hundreds of posts seeking to bash general male behavior doesn't need a connect the dots as to motive for the thread. No one needed the advice "don't send out a spreadsheet summarizing your dates to other dates," OP acknowledges this, and her further rationale is rather thin. If you think my posts are OT, REPORT THEM, and if the mods think they are, I will gladly abide their decision.

 

What's really going on here is obvious, any posts questioning similar female behavior in a thread obviously designed to bash male behavior spoil all the femfun here don't they?

 

How is it bashing males when I agree I'd say the same about a female?!

[zengirl]

I don't see it as "heartless" to organize and analyze and so forth -- it's just a different way to date. Not my way or the kind of guys I date, but I can see why someone who doesn't know what they truly want yet might do that. But it doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't have any feelings --- rather, I think it means he'd rather lead with logic, which people often do even when they HAVE feelings. That's fine. I just think his actual logic is poor and shallow.

 

I think it's the... mechanical nature, he goes about it. Like it isn't just him trying to remember names and facts... notice how he doesn't include anything like "we both like tennis" or "she mentioned her grandma was Polish." He reduces them down to nothing but ages and bodies, and he even color-codes his interest in them... It turns the idea of chemistry and the fun of dating into something heartless, a competition or a, well, spreadsheet.

 

It does remind me of the Bachelor (or Bachelorette). Or what I think those shows are like. I've never actually seen them, so I may not be fair in that correlation. Comments like the quoted ones you have here would be nice, though, and might actually impress me if he knew real things about the women.

[ThaWholigan]

How is it bashing males when I agree I'd say the same about a female?!

Probably if one is entertaining the notion that a man is more likely to "objectify" a woman's body than a woman would do a man.

 

I'm personally not bothered one way or the other, but like I say, that's just me, and a lot of the time my opinion isn't reflective of anybody else most of the time.

[RedRobin]

On a personal level, I am bothered by the idea that if this is such a widespread practice, I'm just a line of data in someone's OLD spreadsheet, where I'm not a whole person, just...

 

The fact that you necessarily fill in the blank after 'just' as something negative is something you do IRL too... I think there must be a million megabytes here devoted to why that might be.

 

But, I will say that my personal distaste for OLD is that it does lend itself to the 'spreadsheet' style of dating.

 

I don't personally see much difference between Duke Lady and Spreadsheet Man. Both have treated others in a dehumanizing way. Noone expects to engage with another person, and then have their personal information shared with the rest of the planet.

[verhrzn]

I don't see it as "heartless" to organize and analyze and so forth -- it's just a different way to date. Not my way or the kind of guys I date, but I can see why someone who doesn't know what they truly want yet might do that. But it doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't have any feelings --- rather, I think it means he'd rather lead with logic, which people often do even when they HAVE feelings. That's fine. I just think his actual logic is poor and shallow.

 

It does remind me of the Bachelor (or Bachelorette). Or what I think those shows are like. I've never actually seen them, so I may not be fair in that correlation. Comments like the quoted ones you have here would be nice, though, and might actually impress me if he knew real things about the women.

 

Like I said, this thread has confirmed that my idea about "creepy" is different than other people's. Some people get creeped out by certain behaviors that I think are fine... this just ticks something in my brain. I think the Bachelor/Bachelorette is a very accurate parallel. I find that show creepy and demoralizing for a similar reason.

 

Also, allow me to share one of my more personal and perhaps controversial views, which I don't do often. I kind of resent the way in which some girls seem to think that because some guys are more likely to notice a girl's body or something physical about them foremost, that we are somehow objectifying them or only whittling them down to just bodyparts. I've met a few girls who think like that, and I have to say on a deep level it annoys me. It implies that merely noticing a woman's body is offensive, which is absurd. Men like women's bodies. And they even differ in the kinds of bodies they like, even in the little physical details, which I know you don't seem to believe (understandable).

 

I get what you're saying, that people shouldn't immediately jump to "objectifying" just because a man notices a woman's body. That makes sense and is reasonable. However, this guy is making comments ONLY about their bodies... he isn't "noticing," he is reducing the woman down to just her looks, which I think fits the bill on "objectifying" and why it bothers me.

 

And just to immediately side-step the gender war, I'd have a similar issue with a girl who only used a guy's looks to describe or remember him.

[ThaWholigan]

Like I said, this thread has confirmed that my idea about "creepy" is different than other people's. Some people get creeped out by certain behaviors that I think are fine... this just ticks something in my brain. I think the Bachelor/Bachelorette is a very accurate parallel. I find that show creepy and demoralizing for a similar reason.

 

 

 

I get what you're saying, that people shouldn't immediately jump to "objectifying" just because a man notices a woman's body. That makes sense and is reasonable. However, this guy is making comments ONLY about their bodies... he isn't "noticing," he is reducing the woman down to just her looks, which I think fits the bill on "objectifying" and why it bothers me.

 

And just to immediately side-step the gender war, I'd have a similar issue with a girl who only used a guy's looks to describe or remember him.

This is understood, although I have to tell you that most guys I have known who have kept any kind of log of girls they were with categorized them physically before anything, albeit the encounters with these girls were physical at best, and not the most emotionally charged encounters. Says a lot about what they were after, but they were mostly young horny guys with more game than me . I always found their adventures fascinating, but I did used to think of what the girl might be thinking.

 

I have certainly known a couple of girls who did the same though. I don't really have much of an issue, some people tend to resonate more with the physical than other people. Such is life, and while others think it might be shallow, I'm of the opinion that people differ in the way attraction works for them, for some it's on an intellectual level, for others it's emotional, or spiritual, and for some it's pure primal, physical lust. People differ IMO.

 

So to me, the concept of objectification in dating or sex is not a big deal to me on a personal level although I understand why someone would make a big deal of it

[verhrzn]

This is understood, although I have to tell you that most guys I have known who have kept any kind of log of girls they were with categorized them physically before anything, albeit the encounters with these girls were physical at best, and not the most emotionally charged encounters. Says a lot about what they were after, but they were mostly young horny guys with more game than me . I always found their adventures fascinating, but I did used to think of what the girl might be thinking.

 

Swell. :Rollseyes:

[ThaWholigan]

Swell. :Rollseyes:

I admit that I didn't exactly discourage their behavior , as a lot of the time when I was further exposed to the scenarios, the girls were fully aware and happy with the physical nature of their encounters, in fact they "objectified" themselves more than the boys did.

 

I have always wanted more passionate encounters personally, as much as I'm not against casual sex, even casual sex for me would need to be a little fiery and include more than just physical. I, too, get a little disheartened when things become TOO mechanical.

 

I digress, but objectifying behavior tends to vary between genders at any given rate, but it supports my view that some people just resonate on a more physical level. I appreciate the fact that I love a woman's body, most shapes and sizes, I've even fantasized about bigger girls so I don't discriminate . I tend to be balanced in many ways though, and most people vary in between that balance on physical, emotional, mental and spiritual.

Edited April 18, 2012 by ThaWholigan

[threebyfate]

Good lord, another thread turned to gender war crap. That's the exact garbage that's continuing to destroy this site. :sick:

 

Just look at this pragmatically. How many of you have tried to juggle over ten other people? I haven't. I can barely keep two to three straight in my mind and being a systemizer woman, I'd rather notate than forget or worse yet, accidentally mix up Joe Smith's life with Abner Jones'.

[dasein]

That's the exact garbage that's continuing to destroy this site.

 

Interesting you've been playing that same broken record for at least a year now while the site's viewers and membership continue to increase.

[Stephanie]

 

Moreover, anyone reading the thread and familiar with OP's hundreds of posts seeking to bash general male behavior doesn't need a connect the dots as to motive for the thread.

 

Here's a suggestion. Let's not formulate opinions on the worthiness of the thread based on opinion on the thread starter's posting history. Look at the topic itself and discuss in a civil manner. Same goes for responses from other members. Evaluate the response for what it is, not based on pre-conceived notions based on past conversations.

 

Let's get this back on topic while I review the posts on this thread. If you continue off-topic, I'll shut it down.

 

Thanks

[TheBigQuestion]

Here's a suggestion. Let's not formulate opinions on the worthiness of the thread based on opinion on the thread starter's posting history. Look at the topic itself and discuss in a civil manner. Same goes for responses from other members. Evaluate the response for what it is, not based on pre-conceived notions based on past conversations.

 

Let's get this back on topic while I review the posts on this thread. If you continue off-topic, I'll shut it down.

 

Thanks

 

If you're going to tell people to ignore others' posting histories entirely, you pretty much eliminate the need for having this message board altogether. It's an online community and people develop personas over time, and others aren't going to forget them. If people think that they are entitled to have their threads read without the reader having knowledge of their posting background and responding accordingly, then they are better off not sharing anything personal in the first place. If one has an ax to grind but don't want others to bring up what they know about them when responding to their threads, they can make a secondary account or post on another message board altogether.

[verhrzn]

If you're going to tell people to ignore others' posting histories entirely, you pretty much eliminate the need for having this message board altogether. It's an online community and people develop personas over time, and others aren't going to forget them. If people think that they are entitled to have their threads read without the reader having knowledge of their posting background and responding accordingly, then they are better off not sharing anything personal in the first place. If one has an ax to grind but don't want others to bring up what they know about them when responding to their threads, they can make a secondary account or post on another message board altogether.

 

But it's pretty unfair to jump to conclusions about the reason someone is posting something. I've already explained my motives (and again, why is it necessary for me to justify posting a thread on a message board?) and yet you essentially said I was a liar. Is that creating an open and inviting community?

[TheBigQuestion]

But it's pretty unfair to jump to conclusions about the reason someone is posting something. I've already explained my motives (and again, why is it necessary for me to justify posting a thread on a message board?) and yet you essentially said I was a liar. Is that creating an open and inviting community?

 

I was making a general point. Not everything is about you.

 

For the record, I agree that you've made your motive for posting this thread clear. I take no issue with it, I just take issue with this idea that you (the general "you") can expect objective responses without reference to any prior posts when you're already a message board regular and all the other regulars are aware of your tendencies and peculiarities. It happens fairly often here.

[Star Gazer]

I don't think what the guy in the OP link did is creepy. And I'm not sure even sending it out is creepy. Stupid? Yes. Creepy? Eh.

 

And we're not even clear about what precipitated him sending it. I can see it very well coming from something like this:

 

Her: "So, how many girls are you talking to/dating from Match?"

Him: "I don't know. Seven maybe?"

Her: "SEVEN? Wow, I feel special. :rolleyes:"

Him: "Don't worry. You're my favorite. ;)"

Her: "How do you keep them all straight? Keep notes or something? (sarcasm)"

Him: "Actually, I keep a spreadsheet."

Her: "A spreadsheet?!"

Him: "I like to keep everything organized. I have a spreadsheet for literally everything."

Her: "I have GOT to see this..."

Him: "I'll send it to you if you want. It proves you're my favorite. ;)"

Her: "Um, okay (morbid curiosity)."

 

And then he sends it, acknowledging it may be a mistake to do so.

 

...

 

Anyway, my point is we all don't know the full story, and the worst the guy did was actually send it. Even that wasn't really creepy so much as just...dumb.

[dasein]

Here's a suggestion. Let's not formulate opinions on the worthiness of the thread based on opinion on the thread starter's posting history. Look at the topic itself and discuss in a civil manner. Same goes for responses from other members. Evaluate the response for what it is, not based on pre-conceived notions based on past conversations.

 

Understood, you are right, I won't derail further, and glad to have more new mods here on LS.

[Stephanie]

If you're going to tell people to ignore others' posting histories entirely, you pretty much eliminate the need for having this message board altogether. It's an online community and people develop personas over time, and others aren't going to forget them. If people think that they are entitled to have their threads read without the reader having knowledge of their posting background and responding accordingly, then they are better off not sharing anything personal in the first place. If one has an ax to grind but don't want others to bring up what they know about them when responding to their threads, they can make a secondary account or post on another message board altogether.

 

I didn't "tell" them to do so, I made a suggestion. What I did "tell" is to keep this on topic. My suggestion helps to accomplish that, preventing personal slams based on something posted 20 threads ago, not just to the OP but to other members who have responded on her thread.

 

Are we going to further derail this thread by debating a suggestion? No. If you have issue with it, you know how to PM me.