I think this is it...

[fishtaco]

I see.

 

Yeah, a breakup is definitely in order.

 

Yeah, unfortunately. Not going to be a good day for either of us.

[fishtaco]

In all fairness to her, this obviously isn't true. She would have broken up with you by now if she really had a zero tolerance policy.

 

Well, I guess her zero tolerance policy is about if I step out of line, she'd smack me immediately over the head to make be get back in line. I don't think it's about you mess up once and you get the boot.

 

Edit: That's actually her term... she told me she as a zero tolerance policy. Because you train the people around you how to treat you.

[Star Gazer]

Well, I guess her zero tolerance policy is about if I step out of line, she'd smack me immediately over the head to make be get back in line. I don't think it's about you mess up once and you get the boot.

 

Edit: That's actually her term... she told me she as a zero tolerance policy. Because you train the people around you how to treat you.

 

I see.

 

So, what you're really saying is that she has boundaries (reasonable or unreasonable), and she's asserting them.

 

You could probably learn something from her.

[dasein]

She's a raving, drama addicted, high maintenance control freak... with boundaries.

[Kamille]

 

Edit: That's actually her term... she told me she as a zero tolerance policy. Because you train the people around you how to treat you.

 

I think she's pushed the "we teach others how to treat us" too far. A partner is not a dog who needs training. She sounds too focused on protecting her boundaries against imaginary offenses and not focused enough on building the relationship.

 

I don't agree that she knows how to assert her boundaries. To me, she sounds like quite the opposite.

 

She also doesn't sound like someone who actually knows how to assert her boundaries. If she did, she would have either said: "No, I would rather we use your truck" or better yet "When you ask me stuff like that at the last minute, it makes me feel like xzy". Or, third option, she would have let the incident go the minute she agreed to let you use her car.

 

I'm sorry you have to break things off, but it does sound like it'll be for the best.

[fishtaco]

I see.

 

So, what you're really saying is that she has boundaries (reasonable or unreasonable), and she's asserting them.

 

You could probably learn something from her.

 

I see what you did there.

 

So you are saying I should put my foot down sometimes, say for example about her being always late? Or maybe even protest, in a non-fighting way, about her zero tolerance policy?

 

Hmm... you've just given me a lot of things to think about...

 

She's a raving, drama addicted, high maintenance control freak... with boundaries.

 

Yes... but I think if I were to apply SG's lesson... maybe I allowed her to be this way? I need to be a stronger lead in a relationship, I think, I can't just kick back and go for peace all the time, then flip out when she flips out. I should constantly apply some pressure to keep things in control.

 

Either way, it's too late for this relationship. I'm out. But maybe I'll do better next time.

 

One of my good friends, a woman, told me when we first started seeing each other that my GF is a good woman, but she likes drama. I'd say she called it...

[Star Gazer]

Kam: I didn't say she knows how to best assert boundaries. I said she has them and is asserting them. The actual boundaries and methodology are obviously questionable.

 

But I still think Fish can learn something from her attempts.

[dasein]

Just remember Moore's law, that microprocessors double in capacity every two years, and Dasein's law, that unchecked bad behavior in a woman doubles every two months and you will be fine.

 

As an aside, I note that you think your verbal skills are not up to par, which based on your posts is not the case, at least in writing. What I suspect is that you are being bullied and interrupted.

 

Try this, when next you are in an argument, say nothing until they stop and say "well?" Just nod and give affirmation signals that you are listening until they signal clearly that they are done. Don't let anger or stress cloud your face, poker face all the way. Then, and this is important, summarize back what they said in one or two sentences and then ask for confirmation that you have understood their point, "so you are saying XXX and this makes you feel CCC?". Then and only then, reply to them. When they interrupt further or try to bring in extraneous stuff, stop right there and shut up. Let them go on. After a couple rounds of this, say with no anger, but definite finality, "Don't interrupt me again and stick to what we are discussing unless you are interested in having this conversation with yourself." If they persist, disengage and leave them to their childishness. This is the way to "train" women to have an adult discussion.

 

If I'm wrong, and you are doing this already, I apologize, but it is worth saying generally.

[fishtaco]

I think she's pushed the "we teach others how to treat us" too far. A partner is not a dog who needs training. She sounds too focused on protecting her boundaries against imaginary offenses and not focused enough on building the relationship.

 

I don't agree that she knows how to assert her boundaries. To me, she sounds like quite the opposite.

 

She also doesn't sound like someone who actually knows how to assert her boundaries. If she did, she would have either said: "No, I would rather we use your truck" or better yet "When you ask me stuff like that at the last minute, it makes me feel like xzy". Or, third option, she would have let the incident go the minute she agreed to let you use her car.

 

I'm sorry you have to break things off, but it does sound like it'll be for the best.

 

Yes, I agree with you. For this particular incident, once she got her point across, let it go. Make me feel bad the whole ride to the dance club, fine, I don't see this issue as a big deal, but she has a right to feel this IS a big deal. But after we had a good night dancing, why bring it back? Just to drive home the point and make sure I learn the lesson? Then it dragged on to the next morning where I was about to walk away, then finally she stops?

 

The difference, is that she put me through the ringer over something that if I were in her shoes, I wouldn't even care about. So I think I have the right to be pissed. But as soon as she backed off the next morning, I stayed mad for a bit, and since she wasn't fighting me anymore, my anger went away, and we had a good rest of the Saturday.

 

And to me, that's kind of how it should be. Don't hang on to stuff. Once we're in a happy mood, why drag something back just to fight about it some more?

 

I can only fight when the other person have their fists up. As soon as they drop their fists, I'd start working on dissipating my own anger internally. That's how I am, hence when I drop my fists, I expected her to do it too, but she keeps fighting. I guess I don't understand what I need to do to resolve conflicts with her.

[fishtaco]

Just remember Moore's law, that microprocessors double in capacity every two years, and Dasein's law, that unchecked bad behavior in a woman doubles every two months and you will be fine.

 

As an aside, I note that you think your verbal skills are not up to par, which based on your posts is not the case, at least in writing. What I suspect is that you are being bullied and interrupted.

 

Try this, when next you are in an argument, say nothing until they stop and say "well?" Just nod and give affirmation signals that you are listening until they signal clearly that they are done. Don't let anger or stress cloud your face, poker face all the way. Then, and this is important, summarize back what they said in one or two sentences and then ask for confirmation that you have understood their point, "so you are saying XXX and this makes you feel CCC?". Then and only then, reply to them. When they interrupt further or try to bring in extraneous stuff, stop right there and shut up. Let them go on. After a couple rounds of this, say with no anger, but definite finality, "Don't interrupt me again and stick to what we are discussing unless you are interested in having this conversation with yourself." If they persist, disengage and leave them to their childishness. This is the way to "train" women to have an adult discussion.

 

If I'm wrong, and you are doing this already, I apologize, but it is worth saying generally.

 

You know, that was such a nerd analogy, but I'm laughing because I'm a nerd.

 

I am normally reasonably articulate and well written. But when emotions well up, my verbal skills take a big negative impact. And you are right... I get distracted and pulled off topic, then eventually I get confused to where I was even going.

 

So I like your suggestion. Focus on one topic, and when the argument starts floating around, shut off my ears, then get back on track when I get a chance. I need to have this sort of "single minded-ness".

[thatone]

You know, that was such a nerd analogy, but I'm laughing because I'm a nerd.

 

I am normally reasonably articulate and well written. But when emotions well up, my verbal skills take a big negative impact. And you are right... I get distracted and pulled off topic, then eventually I get confused to where I was even going.

 

So I like your suggestion. Focus on one topic, and when the argument starts floating around, shut off my ears, then get back on track when I get a chance. I need to have this sort of "single minded-ness".

 

it's not really you needing single mindedness, it's just recognizing who you're dealing with and turning it around on them, it's her hearing single mindedness.

 

as you said you knew from the get go, she's a drama queen. therefore it doesn't matter what she argues about, she just needs the argument.

 

if you don't give her the argument, she doesn't get what she wants. if she doubles down on the argument when you don't argue with her, and you again refuse to argue with her, she'll have no choice but to either leave or stop trying to create the argument.

[Star Gazer]

The difference, is that she put me through the ringer over something that if I were in her shoes, I wouldn't even care about. So I think I have the right to be pissed.

 

You keep saying this, like if it wouldn't bother you - Mr. Laid Back - that she shouldn't get upset about it, and if she does, you're entitled to get pissed.

 

Does that make sense to you? Don't we all have different buttons? Aren't there going to be things that bother you, but not her, and vice versa?

 

(I'm not saying you should stay in this R, it sounds like the damage has been done. But FFR, I don't think your current approach is going to work in the long run, with anyone.)

[fishtaco]

You keep saying this, like if it wouldn't bother you - Mr. Laid Back - that she shouldn't get upset about it, and if she does, you're entitled to get pissed.

 

Does that make sense to you? Don't we all have different buttons? Aren't there going to be things that bother you, but not her, and vice versa?

 

(I'm not saying you should stay in this R, it sounds like the damage has been done. But FFR, I don't think your current approach is going to work in the long run, with anyone.)

 

Well I don't think anyone can be laid back no matter what.

 

What I do, and I already mentioned this, is that I back off and try to keep the peace as much as I can. Then when she flips out, I end up flipping out too. So I vary between laid back and flipped out.

 

And no, that's not good.

 

So, I tried the new approach, which is not to flip out. But she keeps pushing until I do anyway.

 

So I think your advice is good. I need to set my boundaries too. Because I do eventually have a boundary. And it's in stark contrast to my normal laid back demeanor, and end up being a surprise when they hit the brick wall. When you give an inch, they take a yard, but I run out of room eventually. I think that's fairly normal, everyone I'd expect would have a brick wall some place where they will no longer back off. But I need to manage it better, which is I believe what you are trying to tell me.

 

Basically, don't be Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. I see your point, but what my point was, while keeping your point valid, was to illustrate how I try to let my anger subside once I see the conflict is over. Where in her case, she brings it back because she wasn't done with it yet.

[Feelsgoodman]

My money is on the marriage issue and your laid-back attitude.

 

She might take the first one as you not loving her enough and the second one as you not caring about her enough. And thus she feels resentment and is picking fights - probably because she doesn't know any other way to bring up these issues so that you can both work on them.

Women always find a way to make something a man's fault. You've never even met the girl in question, yet "your money" is on the marriage issue and the OP's laid back attitude...a conclusion you make based on literally two sentences in his post. Why is your money not on her being a controlling, irritable, selfish and inflexible human being? Why the automatic conclusion that the OP is doing something wrong?

 

OP, you got some pretty bad advice in the other thread from Star Gazer and others. You do not respond to snotty female behavior by being loving and supplicating. Such behavior must be nipped in the bud. This board's feminists will hate me for saying this, but women respond very well to strong male authority...it's in their genes. That's why they willing take all sorts of crap from the so-called "bad boys". They are genetically wired to respond well to being put in their place. When you respond kindly to her crappy behavior, she gets confused and becomes even more angry and frustrated.

[Feelsgoodman]

Overall, I completely agree with January.

I'm sure you do. It's always the man's fault

[daphne]

I'm sorry to see it's not working out.

 

I think it's unfortunate that you couldn't have used the tail end of this relationship to get practice on how to set your own boundaries against someone who isn't flexible to seeing your point of view. Unless i missed something, I did not get why she would hold onto the car thing at all. She could have simply either said no, or asked you to let her know in the future. It really was that simple.

 

I wish you better luck next time. No one needs to be in a relationship where they cringe at seeing their so's texts.

[fishtaco]

Women always find a way to make something a man's fault. You've never even met the girl in question, yet "your money" is on the marriage issue and the OP's laid back attitude...a conclusion you make based on literally two sentences in his post. Why is your money not on her being a controlling, irritable, selfish and inflexible human being? Why the automatic conclusion that the OP is doing something wrong?

 

OP, you got some pretty bad advice in the other thread from Star Gazer and others. You do not respond to snotty female behavior by being loving and supplicating. Such behavior must be nipped in the bud. This board's feminists will hate me for saying this, but women respond very well to strong male authority...it's in their genes. That's why they willing take all sorts of crap from the so-called "bad boys". They are genetically wired to respond well to being put in their place. When you respond kindly to her crappy behavior, she gets confused and becomes even more angry and frustrated.

 

I understand your post. But I don't want to make this a gender war thread, not saying you are doing that, but I want to say WIDE AWAY from that can of worms.

 

I wanted to try this love and supplicating way. Because it's not my normal way. My normal way is Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. Everything is cool until you step on a landmine, then I'm gone. I'm trying to break that pattern.

 

So I actually think SG is suggesting a middle ground. I read her post as meaning the same thing as dasein's post. The ladies will always be on the ladies side, and men will always be on men's side, when information isn't fully available. We all have our own sides where the benefit of the doubt will fall on. But after two thread full of discussion, I think everyone is going to the middle. Because I believe the men and women that have participated in this thread are reasonable people, regardless of what "default" allegiance they may have. Give them more information, and they will veer toward reason.

 

And what I take away from this, is that I need to set my boundaries. I need to say, look, here's this land mine, don't step on it. And as they get closer, I give them more resistance. Instead of just being all kick back, and boom, surprise.

 

This is MY fault.

 

My girlfriend is not without fault either, and the ladies agree too. She's being difficult and picking fights with me.

 

So this is not anything special. Two people came together, and care and love each other, but eventually, their faults take over, and damage has been done. In retrospect, things could have been done differently, but it's too late, so we can only try it with the next persons, with whom it is still a blank sheet of paper.

[fishtaco]

I'm sorry to see it's not working out.

 

I think it's unfortunate that you couldn't have used the tail end of this relationship to get practice on how to set your own boundaries against someone who isn't flexible to seeing your point of view. Unless i missed something, I did not get why she would hold onto the car thing at all. She could have simply either said no, or asked you to let her know in the future. It really was that simple.

 

I wish you better luck next time. No one needs to be in a relationship where they cringe at seeing their so's texts.

 

Haven't seen you around for a while. Thanks. Yeah, it's going to end soon. I learned my lesson, hopefully I'm a bit better for next time.

 

Hope things are going well with you, and that's why you haven't been here on LS.

[fishtaco]

Dammit, it's time to do the deed. Wish me luck.

[Feelsgoodman]

I wanted to try this love and supplicating way. Because it's not my normal way. My normal way is Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. Everything is cool until you step on a landmine, then I'm gone. I'm trying to break that pattern.

I agree, that's not a good pattern. Some people hate arguments and confrontation. They will sit back and try to ignore the problem until it becomes too big and then they snap and eject themselves from the relationship.

 

That's why I say that you must learn to nip crappy female beahvior in the bud. It's a very important skill to have when dealing with women. Too many men are afraid of telling a woman that her behavior is unacceptable. Our feminized society teaches us that the man is always wrong and that "she who must be obeyed" is always right. What a load of crap Personally, I do not hesitate to call a woman out on her BS. And you know? It makes women respect you more. Women actually told me that I'm different because I have a spine and don't put up with BS.

[dasein]

"she who must be obeyed"

 

This reminds me I need to get out and rewatch my Rumpole of the Bailey dvds, great show.

[Star Gazer]

I'm sure you do. It's always the man's fault

 

Clearly you haven't followed my posting history at all. The people I give the most sh*t to are LS females.

[Star Gazer]

OP, you got some pretty bad advice in the other thread from Star Gazer and others. You do not respond to snotty female behavior by being loving and supplicating.

 

NOT ONCE did I even remotely suggest that he respond to her behavior by being loving or supplicating. Not once.

[fishtaco]

Just for the record, SG, dasein, and Feelsgoodman are all suggesting the same thing, and I see it. Only difference is they way they put it. And I agree with all of you. So please don't get caught up in the misunderstanding.

 

So she's out having dinner with her friends, and they decided to go out dancing. And she invited me to go... and she's all being sweet and nice right now. I think she feels something's wrong.

 

I can't drop this bomb on her in front of her friends, I think I'll have to wait... dammit...

[Feelsgoodman]

Just for the record, SG, dasein, and Feelsgoodman are all suggesting the same thing, and I see it. Only difference is they way they put it. And I agree with all of you. So please don't get caught up in the misunderstanding.

 

So she's out having dinner with her friends, and they decided to go out dancing. And she invited me to go... and she's all being sweet and nice right now. I think she feels something's wrong.

 

I can't drop this bomb on her in front of her friends, I think I'll have to wait... dammit...

Oh man...this is painful to read. You are way too much of a nice guy. Why go dancing with her and her friends if you have already made up your mind to dump her?? Tell her you are not coming. And tomorrow, tell her that it's over.