the right to be picky

[fortyninethousand322]

The OP said he cannot make female friends. I think it is important to know HOW to go about getting female friends, and be able to do it fairly easily.

to do this, I recommend:

 

Just a quick word of clarification in case anyone is confused. I do have female friends, just very few of them and I don't see them all that often. I had a question about to go about interacting with women with the expressed purpose of being friends with them (as opposed to trying to date them). I have three female friends: one is a former coworker and 15 years older than me so our initial interactions were all professional (until of course we became friends over the course of several years working together), another is a girl I basically grew up with and sort of grew from being acquaintances to good friends, and the last is a friend of friends (I mean she's my friend now but initially was not my friend).

[fortyninethousand322]

Also when I talk about attractiveness I'm not talking about just looks. Sure looks is a part of it but it's not the only (or even biggest factor). There are a lot of objectively "pretty" women that I just have no interest in. There's a certain "je ne sais pas" factor as to who I find attractive and who I don't.

 

I mean the last girl I sort of dated a few years ago was objectively not "pretty" in the sense that she didn't wear fancy clothes or a lot of makeup she didn't have a toned body or any of that stuff that people equate with beauty these days. She wore jeans, a t-shirt and a beat up pair of sketchers every day and there was just something about her personality and the way she carried herself that made me fall head over heels. So there's not something I can point to and say "that's attractive". It's just totally intangible.

[Kamille]

Also when I talk about attractiveness I'm not talking about just looks. Sure looks is a part of it but it's not the only (or even biggest factor). There are a lot of objectively "pretty" women that I just have no interest in. There's a certain "je ne sais pas" factor as to who I find attractive and who I don't.

 

I mean the last girl I sort of dated a few years ago was objectively not "pretty" in the sense that she didn't wear fancy clothes or a lot of makeup she didn't have a toned body or any of that stuff that people equate with beauty these days. She wore jeans, a t-shirt and a beat up pair of sketchers every day and there was just something about her personality and the way she carried herself that made me fall head over heels. So there's not something I can point to and say "that's attractive". It's just totally intangible.

 

I understand. I think attraction works that way for most people. (Only status-daters consistently choose mates based on what they think their peers value).

 

Two things: this je ne sais quoi appeal goes both ways. This means it will, one day, play in your favor. What you have to do is find ways to let your own "best self" shine through, so that the right girl for you will recognize it.

 

2. Until you've actually dated for awhile, however, you have no way to know if your initial "intangible" attraction is warranted. Your job, at first, is to figure this out.

[fortyninethousand322]

*I do think being unemployed and unable to support yourself independently hurts everyone's dating prospects, even women, because it impacts your pysche and your wallet and makes you look like a riskier prospect. FWIW.

 

I'd buy that, and I'm certainly not "happy" with the situation (part of the problem for me is figuring out what the heck I actually want to do with my life, I am supposed to have a phone interview today for a pretty decent job fwiw). But, at the same time I was at one point not too long ago a productive member of society: full time college student, working part time. I was going after people in similar circumstances and yet still didn't have much success so I think my issues go beyond this.

[verhrzn]

Maybe you should think about this issue in terms of what advice you would give someone else. Then, turn that advice on you.

 

Let's say I came to you after being single for several years, and said that the only people who message me online are overweight guys who never finished college and are un/underemployed. If I asked you if I should settle for these guys that do not fit my standards, what would you say?

[fortyninethousand322]

Maybe you should think about this issue in terms of what advice you would give someone else. Then, turn that advice on you.

 

Let's say I came to you after being single for several years, and said that the only people who message me online are overweight guys who never finished college and are un/underemployed. If I asked you if I should settle for these guys that do not fit my standards, what would you say?

 

I would say you have to do what makes you happy. And probably, I'd advise you to stop using dating sites.

 

FTR, I'm horrible at taking my own advice.

[AD1980]

They know how to get along well with women as friends. ALl they need to add to the mix is attraction and a girl that is suitable for a relationship.

 

 

 

 

Yeah well the ATTRACTION part is a pretty big deal and sometimes hard to do and if its not there then its just a friendship which is why i dont think making tons of female friends necassarily translates to dates unless you are attractive to women..

[jobaba]

So, in essence, the only thing you need to do is improve your level of comfort speaking with girls you find attractive.

 

I actually feel the same way when I speak to cute guys. The minute I start wondering if they're attracted to me, I become self-conscious and flounder.

 

 

SOUNDS like it would be good advice for a man.

 

But in reality, if a woman doesn't find you physically attractive, it doesn't matter your rapport. In my experience, she will date the next physically or emotionally attractive man that she knows maybe a fraction as well as you.

 

I mean, really, it doesn't make sense to me either. But with every woman I meet, I'm further convinced.

 

Watch the cartoon. It sums it up perfectly.

[Kamille]

SOUNDS like it would be good advice for a man.

 

But in reality, if a woman doesn't find you physically attractive, it doesn't matter your rapport. In my experience, she will date the next physically or emotionally attractive man that she knows maybe a fraction as well as you.

 

 

My advice is this: approach women from a position where you grant yourself the right to decide whether or not you two are compatible. Don't give all your power away. (I give the same advice to women, btw). Don't think your job is to impress them. Your job is to test for compatibility.

 

My advice has very little to do with initial attraction, which is an uncontrollable variable. It does, however, increase your chances at maintaining initial attraction (and, since attitude affects demeanor, some people say it could create some initial attraction).

 

Here's the layout:

 

The same guy approaches two groups of equally numbered women, but changes his attitude.

 

- He approaches half the women with a "please like me" attitude

- He approches the other half with a "I wonder if we're compatible" attitude.

 

I'm willing to bet the % of women of find him attractive will be higher in the second group than in the first.

[jobaba]

 

- He approaches half the women with a "please like me" attitude

- He approches the other half with a "I wonder if we're compatible" attitude.

 

I'm willing to bet the % of women of find him attractive will be higher in the second group than in the first.

 

Hmmm.

 

I dunno. In cases where I have gotten to know a woman over time without motives (friends and coworkers) and fallen for her, it has always been rejection.

 

In cases where I've viewed the woman as an object that I'm chasing after and have thus altered my attitude to reflect 'my best game' so to speak, I've gotten some.

 

I think initial physical attraction is a hurdle best overcome through quantity, not quality.

 

A man who is better looking might be able to take the more casual approach, but then ... would that man be asking for advice here?

[Kamille]

Hmmm.

 

I dunno. In cases where I have gotten to know a woman over time without motives (friends and coworkers) and fallen for her, it has always been rejection.

 

In cases where I've viewed the woman as an object that I'm chasing after and have thus altered my attitude to reflect 'my best game' so to speak, I've gotten some.

 

I think initial physical attraction is a hurdle best overcome through quantity, not quality.

 

A man who is better looking might be able to take the more casual approach, but then ... would that man be asking for advice here?

 

Where did I say anything about a casual approach? You're misreading me. Forget, for a second, that this advice is coming from a woman.

 

What you call "treating women as an object" I call "not approaching them as if your job is to impress them". We're both giving him advice which aims at leveling the playing field.

 

Either way, we agree, the goal if for 49 to put his best game forward.

[verhrzn]

Hmmm.

 

I dunno. In cases where I have gotten to know a woman over time without motives (friends and coworkers) and fallen for her, it has always been rejection.

 

In cases where I've viewed the woman as an object that I'm chasing after and have thus altered my attitude to reflect 'my best game' so to speak, I've gotten some.

 

I think initial physical attraction is a hurdle best overcome through quantity, not quality.

 

A man who is better looking might be able to take the more casual approach, but then ... would that man be asking for advice here?

 

No, a better looking man actually doesn't have a better time with the casual approach, unless he's trying to bag a more insecure woman.

 

If a guy doesn't show romantic interest in her, a mature woman (the woman you WANT a relationship with) moves on, regardless of how "hot" you are.

[somedude81]

Here's the layout:

 

The same guy approaches two groups of equally numbered women, but changes his attitude.

 

- He approaches half the women with a "please like me" attitude

- He approches the other half with a "I wonder if we're compatible" attitude.

 

I'm willing to bet the % of women of find him attractive will be higher in the second group than in the first.

That's how I always do it...

 

The only times I ever try to get a girl to like me, is if I've known her for a long while and I already like her, and want her to be my GF. Other than that I just do my thing.

 

My problem is what verhrzn mentioned. I don't show romantic interest in women until it's already too late.

[Anela]

SOUNDS like it would be good advice for a man.

 

But in reality, if a woman doesn't find you physically attractive, it doesn't matter your rapport. In my experience, she will date the next physically or emotionally attractive man that she knows maybe a fraction as well as you.

 

I mean, really, it doesn't make sense to me either. But with every woman I meet, I'm further convinced.

 

Watch the cartoon. It sums it up perfectly.

 

Someone I'm acquainted with, just became involved with a long-term male friend. She hadn't been attracted to him before, but the better she got to know him, the more she liked (and now loves) him.

[somedude81]

Someone I'm acquainted with, just became involved with a long-term male friend. She hadn't been attracted to him before, but the better she got to know him, the more she liked (and now loves) him.

That would be great if it actually had a decent chance of working. Sadly, just about every guy alive can tell you stories of how a good/long time friends rejected him.

[KathyM]

I think when a person has had no success in finding more attractive women to date, there comes a time when he needs to ask himself what is more important to him--to have a loving relationship and companionship with a woman, or to have a standard of attractiveness that you don't want to give up on, but which is not getting you what you want. Would you rather hold onto that standard and be alone, or would you rather have a loving relationship with a person that may not fufill that standard of attractiveness you would prefer, but has many other nice qualities about her? If a person has had no success with women, it's time to be more realistic in your expectations. If you can't get the women who are more attractive, you seek out those that may be more willing to give you the chance. There's a good chance you will be attracted to other qualities about this person--her personality, her sense of humor, her kind spirit, etc., that will make her an enjoyable person to be with, even if she isn't the attractiveness level you would prefer. So you ask yourself what is more important to you--to have a loving relationship, or to be alone and hold onto a physical standard that you don't seem to be able to attain. Having that physical standard will do you no good if it's not attainable.

[Kamille]

 

My problem is what verhrzn mentioned. I don't show romantic interest in women until it's already too late.

 

I agree that verhrzn's point about romance is good advice. It's also easier to be flirtatious and playful when you're not trying to get someone to like you. Strange thing that.

[jobaba]

Someone I'm acquainted with, just became involved with a long-term male friend. She hadn't been attracted to him before, but the better she got to know him, the more she liked (and now loves) him.

 

I'm aware that it's happened before during the history of time.

 

I'm just saying it's not the most efficient and certainly not the more painless approach.

 

Quantity and yes/no answer.

[jobaba]

No, a better looking man actually doesn't have a better time with the casual approach, unless he's trying to bag a more insecure woman.

 

If a guy doesn't show romantic interest in her, a mature woman (the woman you WANT a relationship with) moves on, regardless of how "hot" you are.

 

Well. I disagree with the first one. Women will wait for a man they are physically attracted to for years.

 

But I do agree that you have to show romantic interest in her quick, though for different reasons.

 

I'm not trying to qualify how ALL women think. I'm aware there's always outliers. I'm just trying to say the method that would be more efficient for guys.

[somedude81]

I agree that verhrzn's point about romance is good advice. It's also easier to be flirtatious and playful when you're not trying to get someone to like you. Strange thing that.

Honestly, most of the time I just forget to be flirtatious.

 

Making things romantic or sexual is an afterthought.

[aj22one]

First off, theres picky and then there's picky. A woman who prefers men to be 6'4" or taller and fluent in three languages and have a masters degree is picky. Me preferring brown women is picky. What you're looking for is not being picky. This is about online dating and how it basically is the bane of all existence. Especially if you're under 26 and a guy.

 

So where do you go from here? Well, I suggest volunteer work, I suggest trying to expand your social circle, go to house parties, do something wild, and talk to everyone you can. Some chicks will be annoyed, but who cares? That's on them not you.

[ScreamingTrees]

SCREAMING TREES - my point was simply; if the OP cannot make any female friends, it might be difficult to find a girl for a relationship.

 

You said you make female friends, great:) the OP cannot, he says, so learning how to get along well with women might benifit him, in terms of being more ready to handle a women in a relationship.

 

I apologize for sounding like a dick in my earlier posts if I did, and I'm usually never like that, so I don't know what was in my head earlier, I was just in a ****ty mood and your posts rubbed me the wrong way, I interpreted them negatively when they were meant to be positive. My bad. Guess I didn't come off as a people person. lol

[AD1980]

I dont see making female friends automatically translating to attracting women..

 

My female friends are basically my friends wives,they like me a lot becasue they know im not hitting on them and are comfortable talking as a friend..

 

Usually when i approach a random single women she is on guard to begin with and looks at me thinking god not this unattractive guy hitting on me and makes an excuse to why she cant talk to me..

 

If you cant pass the initial physical attraction test you have little shot..The ability to befriend a women who doesnt feel threatend by you because she knows youre not hititng on her does not lend itself to giving you skills to attract women unless you pass the eye test with her..

[AD1980]

I think when a person has had no success in finding more attractive women to date, there comes a time when he needs to ask himself what is more important to him--to have a loving relationship and companionship with a woman, or to have a standard of attractiveness that you don't want to give up on, but which is not getting you what you want. Would you rather hold onto that standard and be alone, or would you rather have a loving relationship with a person that may not fufill that standard of attractiveness you would prefer, but has many other nice qualities about her? If a person has had no success with women, it's time to be more realistic in your expectations. If you can't get the women who are more attractive, you seek out those that may be more willing to give you the chance. There's a good chance you will be attracted to other qualities about this person--her personality, her sense of humor, her kind spirit, etc., that will make her an enjoyable person to be with, even if she isn't the attractiveness level you would prefer. So you ask yourself what is more important to you--to have a loving relationship, or to be alone and hold onto a physical standard that you don't seem to be able to attain. Having that physical standard will do you no good if it's not attainable.

 

 

Id rather be alone which ive been for 31 yaers then be with somebody i have no physical attraction to..

 

That doesnt mean im holding out for a model far from it but i cant be with somebody i cant picture making out with or being intimate with no matter how nice they are to me..

 

To me thats why you have friendships of oppsoite genders that exist..a decent connection but no physical and romantic chemistry..

[somedude81]

I dont see making female friends automatically translating to attracting women.

There is no connection.

 

Getting girls to sleep with you is a whole different game then being able to make friends.

 

That's almost like saying that if you know how to play Baseball, you can play