jobaba Posted April 17, 2012 Posted April 17, 2012 And you don't think very good looking women date as many men as very good looking men date women? Yes. But once again, it's from the top heavy part of the curve of desirable men. Maybe I should make a bell curve.
Els Posted April 17, 2012 Posted April 17, 2012 Yes. But once again, it's from the top heavy part of the curve of desirable men. Maybe I should make a bell curve. Uh, if the very good looking people all date equally much (I'm not saying they do, btw), that still does not explain where all the excess is coming from on the female side.
Leigh 87 Posted April 17, 2012 Posted April 17, 2012 I've only ever made female aquaintances through a mutual friend, female or male. Usually it'll be more of a friendship if I'd met them through a mutual female friend, but the friendliness dies down fairly quickly after some time. I'm not really sure why, either they imagined I could be into them but realized I wasn't and didn't want to bother, or they just weren't interested in getting to know me as a person. Either scenario sucks, but what can you do.. Usually if I meet them through a male it's even worse, it's just some girl being there PHYSICALLY, but if her head ain't buried in an iPhone or some ****, she's just deep in conversation with someone else in the immediate area, talking about non-inclusive stuff so I'm basically forced to just stand there and say nothing. I'm not being given much to work with in these situations.. At least in the above mentioned scenario we're usually going back and forth for awhile and they seem to be genuinely enjoying hanging out. (Probably not with me.) I just don't see how making female friends would do anything unless they find you attractive. They wouldn't be interested in me.. Why would I want one of them to inevitably set me up with some other pathetic excuse of a person because they were pestered into playing matchmaker.. That's if by some lucky chance such a specifically random thought about a near stranger ever crosses their mind. Sorry, but no thanks. I mean, genuinely making " just friends" with girls, with the intention of just being friends. I saw with my boyfriend, it helps just making female friends. Learning how to act around women, getting them to like your personality.
jobaba Posted April 17, 2012 Posted April 17, 2012 Uh, if the very good looking people all date equally much (I'm not saying they do, btw), that still does not explain where all the excess is coming from on the female side. The good looking men date more than the good looking women I think. Just about every woman who posts here has a story about going out with a real hot guy at least once. I'm pretty sure you couldn't say the same about every guy here. To be honest, I haven't really considered it in a social scientific statistical sense, but I've observed it in real life. I mean it's Animal Planet/National Geographic. Females flock to Alpha Males and the weaker males get marginalized.
somedude81 Posted April 17, 2012 Posted April 17, 2012 Depends. Around women who I know are off the table (like friends' girlfriends, religious Muslim women, older women, etc.) I'm easy going, crack jokes, etc. Around women who I know are single and attractive (physically and personality-wise)? I'm a nervous wreck constantly panicking and wondering what I should do or what I should say, hoping that I don't mess anything up. Yeah, that's a bit extreme, but I'm not surprised. You are aware that is a primary reason why you aren't getting anywhere with women? Have you tried asking some of your friends or their girlfriends for help? Also, it seems that you need more exposure to women that freak you out. I'm curious about this. What do you two guys think keeps women from liking you and falling you for you like they do other guys? What is your own opinion? Me? Because I'm short and only average in looks, so women will never be physically attracted to me. If that weren't bad enough, I'm not that good at flirting and can't turn a conversation sexual. Women are never going to do it with me, so everything is up to me.
ScreamingTrees Posted April 17, 2012 Posted April 17, 2012 I mean, genuinely making " just friends" with girls, with the intention of just being friends. I saw with my boyfriend, it helps just making female friends. Learning how to act around women, getting them to like your personality. Did I say I made friends with them to hit on them? No. I wasn't attracted to any of them, and they didn't really talk to me regardless. I genuinely treated them like a friend, and they wouldn't even allow a friendship. Not my problem, I did nothing to make them act that way. I don't know what the deal is, I'm sociable, just not making sexual moves on them or talking dirty to them.. I guess that's boring, a waste of their time. How does that help me with a girl I'm actually attracted to? She's going to magically be interested in what I have to say? Yeah, maybe if she thinks I'm hot. Your linguistically challenged boyfriend basically had a one-time weekend vacation fling with a sexy intellectual girl who had nothing in common with him because he was tall and manly looking? (You literally said it was a fling, no?) How is that good advice that I can apply to my life?
jobaba Posted April 17, 2012 Posted April 17, 2012 Did I say I made friends with them to hit on them? No. I wasn't attracted to any of them, and they didn't really talk to me regardless. I genuinely treated them like a friend, and they wouldn't even allow a friendship. Not my problem, I did nothing to make them act that way. I don't know what the deal is, I'm sociable, just not making sexual moves on them or talking dirty to them.. I guess that's boring, a waste of their time. How does that help me with a girl I'm actually attracted to? She's going to magically be interested in what I have to say? Yeah, maybe if she thinks I'm hot. Your linguistically challenged boyfriend basically had a one-time weekend vacation fling with a sexy intellectual girl who had nothing in common with him because he was tall and manly looking? (You literally said it was a fling, no?) How is that good advice that I can apply to my life? LOL MAN! That cartoon at the bottom of your profile cracked my @ss up! :lmao:
ScreamingTrees Posted April 17, 2012 Posted April 17, 2012 LOL MAN! That cartoon at the bottom of your profile cracked my @ss up! :lmao: I used to love that show, dude.. That particular episode sums up the Loveshack concept in 15(?) minutes.." - It's not my personal experience, fortunately.
jobaba Posted April 17, 2012 Posted April 17, 2012 I used to love that show, dude.. That particular episode sums up the Loveshack concept in 15(?) minutes.." - It's not my personal experience, fortunately. Lol. I'm a little too old for that cartoon but when Arnold gets a little older he'll understand that 'oh so special someone I've been looking for' = female talk for next hot guy to walk down the street. And unfortunately for me, that has been my experience ... minus a creepy chick with a unabrow chasing after me.
Els Posted April 17, 2012 Posted April 17, 2012 The good looking men date more than the good looking women I think. Just about every woman who posts here has a story about going out with a real hot guy at least once. I'm pretty sure you couldn't say the same about every guy here. To be honest, I haven't really considered it in a social scientific statistical sense, but I've observed it in real life. I mean it's Animal Planet/National Geographic. Females flock to Alpha Males and the weaker males get marginalized. Yes, it happens with animals and with traditional polygynous societies. None of which, last I checked, these guys happen to live in. We're overcomplicating things by talking about 'number of different people one dates', anyway. Why is quantity better than a LTR or even dating one person all the time? What's stopping other guys from being with the women when the 'real hot guys' are not dating them? And etc. Better to just put it simply: These guys you're talking about want relationships. So we talk about that. For every MAN currently in a relationship, there is a WOMAN in one, barring homosexuals, yes? Personally, I've never dated the 'hot jock' type, never wanted to, completely not my type. They didn't ask me out either, so the feeling is apparently mutual. I think they prefer the girls with Oakley sunglasses and perfectly styled hair, which is good for me. The women I know who are not single, are mostly in LTRs with 'average-looking' men as well. IMO this 'alpha male' phenomena is mostly in the heads of men who just perceive it to be such. It doesn't help that some of the men here (not you) espousing this theory, think that certain portions of women (obese, old, etc) 'don't count as women'. Of course if you're going to be picking and choosing who you think 'counts', then all the women you 'know' are going to find it easy to be in relationships.
somedude81 Posted April 17, 2012 Posted April 17, 2012 LOL MAN! That cartoon at the bottom of your profile cracked my @ss up! :lmao: Hah, I just saw that too. I used to watch that show back in the day. Doesn't matter how old they are, women are crazy.
ScreamingTrees Posted April 17, 2012 Posted April 17, 2012 Lol. I'm a little too old for that cartoon but when Arnold gets a little older he'll understand that 'oh so special someone I've been looking for' = female talk for next hot guy to walk down the street. And unfortunately for me, that has been my experience ... minus a creepy chick with a unabrow chasing after me. Well, that sucks. Needless to say, I lilah'd. (On a more serious note, I can't say I've ever been lilah'd before.. Hmm.)
jobaba Posted April 17, 2012 Posted April 17, 2012 Yes, it happens with animals and with traditional polygynous societies. None of which, last I checked, these guys happen to live in. We're overcomplicating things by talking about 'number of different people one dates', anyway. Why is quantity better than a LTR or even dating one person all the time? What's stopping other guys from being with the women when the 'real hot guys' are not dating them? And etc. Better to just put it simply: These guys you're talking about want relationships. So we talk about that. For every MAN currently in a relationship, there is a WOMAN in one, barring homosexuals, yes? Personally, I've never dated the 'hot jock' type, never wanted to, completely not my type. They didn't ask me out either, so the feeling is apparently mutual. I think they prefer the girls with Oakley sunglasses and perfectly styled hair, which is good for me. The women I know who are not single, are mostly in LTRs with 'average-looking' men as well. IMO this 'alpha male' phenomena is mostly in the heads of men who just perceive it to be such. It doesn't help that some of the men here (not you) espousing this theory, think that certain portions of women (obese, old, etc) 'don't count as women'. Of course if you're going to be picking and choosing who you think 'counts', then all the women you 'know' are going to find it easy to be in relationships. Dating in quantity isn't better per se. I don't disagree with a lot of what you say. I just was trying to say the reason the OP doesn't get a lot of interest from women that are equivalent to him is because those women have a lot more options than he does, including better looking men. I don't think that's too far off.
Leigh 87 Posted April 17, 2012 Posted April 17, 2012 Your linguistically challenged boyfriend basically had a one-time weekend vacation fling with a sexy intellectual girl who had nothing in common with him because he was tall and manly looking? (You literally said it was a fling, no?) How is that good advice that I can apply to my life? They spent over 3 months together travelling, every day. She wrote him veery long messages for months ther after. She regarded him as a very, very good friends with benifits, who she obviously had strong feelings for. I am SAYING; you can be great, despite lacking in an area. My boyfriend is not good at written English or reading so much, but he is talented in other areas, and very good socially. He is also good looking with a big dick. Maybe that helped entice her? Actually, he is great to talk to, and they talked for hours every day. Being bad in an area does not mean you cannot connect with a person who is good at it; you can still get along well and love one anothers company.
Leigh 87 Posted April 17, 2012 Posted April 17, 2012 I stand by my observation, that guy who make female friends and learn to get along well with females, can be more sucessful with dating.. They know how to get along well with women as friends. ALl they need to add to the mix is attraction and a girl that is suitable for a relationship. Getting along well with people in general, especially women, will help any man get more dates; because they are a more likable person in general. Being able to make female friends easily enough, is an indicator that you can get along with women well in general, and get a taste of what they are like close up, as friends. Of course, many guys have lots of female friends and ar enot sucessful at relationships or dating... I would find, though, that if a guy is sociable and nice to talk with and gets along well with women in general, he would have a few dates. Bad looking guys would obviously go for average looking women, but at least they can get along well with people, and are nice to be around.
ScreamingTrees Posted April 17, 2012 Posted April 17, 2012 (edited) Being bad in an area does not mean you cannot connect with a person who is good at it; you can still get along well and love one anothers company. It helps if you're good looking with a big dick, I guess. That's not to necessarily say that I'm particularly unattractive/short/un-endowed. Good enough for a FWB situation, which in guy talk amongst friends is "this chick I'm banging", nothing more, nothing less, no matter how mentally invested the girl was/is in the guy. I can make female friends. I've done that already plenty of times naturally, and it hasn't really helped me to be honest. Women are not some mythical breed, they're human beings and I treat them as such because I'm not desperate or have an agenda. Else I'd have been with someone by now. EDIT: Honestly, figured I'd add that I doubt anyone's interested in your awesome perfect alpha boyfriend. I don't need someone telling me that I don't get along with the people that are in my life and that's my problem.. The people I end up socializing with become like family to me, and they view me in the same way. That doesn't relate to any of the stuff you're talking to. Having a "friend" mindset is different from tacking "boy" onto the front of the word. The whole situation changes, even if slightly, still makes a big difference. Edited April 17, 2012 by ScreamingTrees
zengirl Posted April 17, 2012 Posted April 17, 2012 49, as to what makes a "Catch" -- it's going to vary by individual. But, really, here's something key: Interpersonal skills. That's going to be my drum for awhile. You know, I never even REALIZED how important they were to dating till really recently and on this site. My interpersonal skills have declined (after HS) and improved (a little bit after college) dramatically at times in my life, and my ability to make and keep friendships has always followed the same success or failure level as my ability to date successfully and find LTRs. (I do believe flings and casual sex are probably less impacted by interpersonal skills but still some -- more akin to your ability to charm strangers in the short term rather than keep friendships LT or make real friendships.) Sure, being hot or rich/successful can help a guy. Let's not pretend otherwise. Just as being young or hot can help a woman (or, nowadays, with some men, being rich/successful but not so much overall, sadly). HOWEVER, I know many successful men who are not hot or particularly successful in their careers*. What do they have? They have interpersonal skills. I know quite a few really pretty girls who fail at relationships. What do they lack? Interpersonal skills. Self-esteem, fwiw, IS an interpersonal skill, as it impacts how you relate to people. Confidence is just how you feel about one subset of your life (i.e. you can be confident about work but insecure about dating), but self-esteem impacts EVERY sector of your life. *I do think being unemployed and unable to support yourself independently hurts everyone's dating prospects, even women, because it impacts your pysche and your wallet and makes you look like a riskier prospect. FWIW. 2
Kamille Posted April 17, 2012 Posted April 17, 2012 So, in essence, the only thing you need to do is improve your level of comfort speaking with girls you find attractive. I actually feel the same way when I speak to cute guys. The minute I start wondering if they're attracted to me, I become self-conscious and flounder. I do best when I don't care about the outcome of the situation. When I view it as just me having fun getting to know people. Finding someone physically attractive does not mean you have much in common with that person. It does not mean that you are at their mercy. The trick, for you, could be to empower yourself by focusing on the other things that you want in a relationship (lively conversation, some good laughs, respect). That way, you're levelling the terrain. Instead of "standing trial" every time you speak to a woman you find attractive, you're basically just getting to know them. Does that make sense? I know it helps me. It also helps me keep from perceiving any interaction that isn't sizzling as rejection. All it means is that my interlocutor and I aren't on the same wave length.
Leigh 87 Posted April 17, 2012 Posted April 17, 2012 It helps if you're good looking with a big dick, I guess. That's not to necessarily say that I'm particularly unattractive/short/un-endowed. Good enough for a FWB situation, which in guy talk amongst friends is "this chick I'm banging", nothing more, nothing less, no matter how mentally invested the girl was/is in the guy. I can make female friends. I've done that already plenty of times naturally, and it hasn't really helped me to be honest. Women are not some mythical breed, they're human beings and I treat them as such because I'm not desperate or have an agenda. Else I'd have been with someone by now. EDIT: Honestly, figured I'd add that I doubt anyone's interested in your awesome perfect alpha boyfriend. I don't need someone telling me that I don't get along with the people that are in my life and that's my problem.. The people I end up socializing with become like family to me, and they view me in the same way. That doesn't relate to any of the stuff you're talking to. Having a "friend" mindset is different from tacking "boy" onto the front of the word. The whole situation changes, even if slightly, still makes a big difference. WHy attack my boyfriend? Lol. MY POINT, to the OP, is that it does help to be good with females, in general. Not smooth talking, but to be genuine with women, rather than try to bang them all at every party. You know - AS a women, I would respond far more warmly to a guy who actually wanted to get to know me, be friends, rather than assume he wants anything from me. The OP said he cannot make female friends. I think it is important to know HOW to go about getting female friends, and be able to do it fairly easily. to do this, I recommend: - seeking out a friend of yours who IS sucessful with this. If your serious about getting close to women, you should be around them more, as friends, to see what it is like. - Try to emulate some of your friends behaviours that gets girls ( as friends). If you want something badly enough, u can get it if you try hard enough, in a lot of cases. I think it would do you good, to try to learn how to be - friend females. It certainly helped me with men - being their friend, knowing what goes on with them and dating, knowing what works for different people, how different men feel about different situations, etc. - Or, go online and utube someone that is sucessful with making female friends. Just try hard and see if it can work for you. You sound like you have a lot to offer the right type of girl, so even if you just cannot get the female friendship thing down pat, you WILL wind up in a relationship at SOME point! Going by the fact your not ugly, you say, and have some cool interests and interesting things about you. It baffles me why guys that sound like you, find it hard to get women! If your at least average looking, have things going on in your life, a future plan, can support yourself somewhat.... It must come down to how your interact with women! Plenty of women would enjoy doing the activities you enjoy, and talking about the interesting range of things you say you like to discuss. THey are waiting to be found, hoenstly - it is up to you, and how you go about attracting them to begin with. ...... Learning how to interact well with women will get you further in dating, I think. If you cannot even relate well enough to ANY women, even on a friendship level, it may be hard to figure a girl out for a relationship?
Leigh 87 Posted April 17, 2012 Posted April 17, 2012 SCREAMING TREES - my point was simply; if the OP cannot make any female friends, it might be difficult to find a girl for a relationship. You said you make female friends, great:) the OP cannot, he says, so learning how to get along well with women might benifit him, in terms of being more ready to handle a women in a relationship.
El Brujo Posted April 17, 2012 Posted April 17, 2012 At what point should someone who is perpetually dateless give up their standards? It depends. If you're trying to impress all your family and friends, forget about having standards. But if you don't give a crap about what everyone else wants, because you want a partner for YOURSELF, you can have all the standards you want. 2
Kamille Posted April 17, 2012 Posted April 17, 2012 This won't make up for his lack of dating experience. This lack of experience lowers his value so much that whatever he does he's at her mercy and you do not get experience if no one gives you an opportunity. I didn't realize he had his lack of dating experience tattooed on his forehead. (And besides, he has dating experience. Not as much as he imagines he should have, but he's clearly not entirely clueless.) Question for you Man of Boston: why are you so invested in making his situation seem desperate?
Kamille Posted April 17, 2012 Posted April 17, 2012 It could be very subtle body language that a females sees. So, in essence, you're agreeing with the people who are saying what he needs to do is find ways to approach the situation from an empowered position, thus eliminating the "smell of inexperience"?
Kamille Posted April 17, 2012 Posted April 17, 2012 Just talking and making fiends with females won't put him in an empowered position. He can choose to not be picky and gain some experience. If he's picky he could end up like me, 39 and just a few kisses and nothing significant. I have no way out but he does. Time is not on his side. You're lumping posts together (do you assume all women speak with one single voice?). I never suggested he talk and make friends with women. I'm suggesting he start approaching women as though he's the one doing the choosing (and he is). As though they have to impress him. The man is 24. He's young. He's gone on dates in the past. Stop projecting how desperate your situation is onto his. Start your own thread if you want advice.
Kamille Posted April 17, 2012 Posted April 17, 2012 I'm suggesting that if he plays this wrong he could be in a situation almost as bad as mine in 15 years. When you don't don't have opinions you don't do the choosing. Beggars can't be choosers. I'm suggesting he's not a beggar. And that perceiving himself to be one is what's hampering his game. Because, as you said, no one finds desperation attractive.
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