Author fortyninethousand322 Posted April 17, 2012 Author Posted April 17, 2012 Quick question, how would you describe your mood/personality when you are around women? Depends. Around women who I know are off the table (like friends' girlfriends, religious Muslim women, older women, etc.) I'm easy going, crack jokes, etc. Around women who I know are single and attractive (physically and personality-wise)? I'm a nervous wreck constantly panicking and wondering what I should do or what I should say, hoping that I don't mess anything up.
jobaba Posted April 17, 2012 Posted April 17, 2012 Perhaps this is a thread topic in and of itself, but what exactly do you consider to be a catch? The only things that I think I fall short on is confidence, money, and the fact that I have a receding hairline. Otherwise, I think I have a good personality and good looks (I'm not fat or anything). So what else would I work on? What is keeping me back from being "high quality"? Is it only money and confidence? Quick question, how would you describe your mood/personality when you are around women? I'm curious about this. What do you two guys think keeps women from liking you and falling you for you like they do other guys? What is your own opinion?
westrock Posted April 17, 2012 Posted April 17, 2012 (edited) Think about it. When was the last time you heard a poster mention in their standards things like: loyalty, kindness, supportiveness, or even largely intelligence for that matter. It's always looks, height and income. If you can look past that stuff, you can find a good, fun gal. People do this because criteria such as height, weight, hair color, income, education, material belongings, religion, certain interests, etc. can be quantified or measured, and even searched on a dating site. Qualities such as loyalty, kindness, supportiveness, intelligence cannot be easily measured, they're non-measurable. It's hard to do a search on a dating site looking for someone who is "loyal" or "kind". On OLD the emphasis is on the measurable criteria. But that's not what makes a good match, it's the non-measurable criteria that really counts. This is one of the reasons why using OLD is hard to do in finding a good match for us. The non-measurable criteria cannot be searched on the site. Even if you find someone who matches your measurable criteria, it doesn't mean they are a good match. People often compromise on the non-measurable qualities in favor of someone who matches their measurable qualities, but often that type of relationship doesn't work out. To improve your chances in dating in general, lower your standards for measurable criteria, BUT raise your standards for non-measurable criteria. Some people think that if they lower their standards on anything, it means they are settling, but that's not completely true. They are settling on the measurable criteria, but NOT settling on the immeasurable criteria. What's actually happening is that they are becoming more clear on what they want. Edited April 17, 2012 by westrock 1
Author fortyninethousand322 Posted April 17, 2012 Author Posted April 17, 2012 I'm curious about this. What do you two guys think keeps women from liking you and falling you for you like they do other guys? What is your own opinion? Well for one I know I'm way too nervous around women (specifically attractive single ones as noted above). But beyond that I have no idea. All I know is every woman I've ever tried to talk to (in class, on facebook, at a museum or other place) gets annoyed that I'm trying to talk to them. I can only think of two occasions in which I cam away from an interaction with a woman and thought "she might be interested in me". One was an underaged coworker and the other was a girl that broke my heart. I know I'm not smooth or great in the moment with women so maybe that's it. I don't know...
Leigh 87 Posted April 17, 2012 Posted April 17, 2012 SOMEDUDE - there are 3 little dogs in the pic:) One on top, two on my side. FORTYTHOUSAND - Where to start:) well, there are so many factors that make you connect with people... You have to come across as - nice, warm - positive, happy - pleasant to be around - interested in the other person - u have to have interesting hobbies and interest and activities you enjoy doing - at least be financially able to support yourself, not on the streets - if you do not have a grand career plan, at least have goals in life u want to reach; if you have not met your girls yet, simply HAVING ambition in life, and the intelligence to hold conversations with a women, should be enough for MOST WOMEN. Basically... being happy, kind, and positive to all people, makes it easy to attract people in general; then, being able to just get along with a person, and have your own life with interesting hobbies and interests, and also working out in some way 3 - 4 days per week, and having some career plan mapped out, even if not in fruitation.... My boyfriend is lacking in some areas, but his very positive personality, has landed him some hot intelligent chicks... My boyriend is tall, large manly body type, and a cute face; he has a few pimples occasionally, and is not 6 pack ripped, however; BUT he has a super nice personality and is very nice and fun to be around... while he lacks a set career and degree, and is terrible at writing and spelling.. Can not read a novel, loses interest. Is talented in fixing things and being a problem solver. Loves watching documentaries, oppoised to learning thigns thruogh reading a lot. ..yet he managed to hook up with a super hot super intelligent girl whilst travelling; who was great at constructing huge essay quality facebook letters..... because he was super fun, super cool, and great to be around, and the chick ws very adventerous, hence while they met travelling.... They had plenty to talk about, EVEN though she has a masters degree, and he has nO degree or career plan as yet. You just have to connect to people through your personality. In summary; as a women, aside from my specific things I need in a guy adventerous, wants to sky dive likes motor bikes camping, and wants to to fun out door things, and travel).... The only things I need are: kindess, a warm and friendly demeanour, and the ability to at least earn enough money to travel one day. That is it. And I prefer fair guys, not dark.
Kamille Posted April 17, 2012 Posted April 17, 2012 How are you so sure that women get annoyed at you? Or rather, what makes you think what they're feeling is "annoyed"? This doesn't match my understanding of how humans generally interact with each other. 'Annoying' isn't the first thing that pops into my mind when I speak to a guy. "Shy", "reserved", "funny", "not my type" (etc.) might come up, but hardly ever annoying. It might help if you give us examples of interactions when you felt a woman was "annoyed". I can understand this happening in a bar scene. Less so if these are women you're meeting through friends.
Author fortyninethousand322 Posted April 17, 2012 Author Posted April 17, 2012 Thanks Leigh, that's basically what I was thinking of and what I thought was good enough to be able to succeed at dating. The only thing it looks like I'm lacking is a career and being positive and happy (two things I'm not usually unless I'm playing basketball).
ScreamingTrees Posted April 17, 2012 Posted April 17, 2012 I thought my ex was rude the first time we met. After meeting him for a second time, I realized that he was just socially awkward and shy. Ha. I can imagine someone having this same exact first and second date perception of me.. I'd say my problem lies in the fact that I'm supposedly attractive enough where a girl probably assumes I do fairly well with women when in reality I'm not very smooth. What do you mean by rude? I'm curious. Aloof? I've been told by several different people, male and female, that I appear distant and literally seem to go out of my way to ignore females who they claimed were obviously checking me out and sending signals. I usually do ignore it, and I guess they assume I'm some sort of stuck up ******* rather than someone who happens to be a bit shy around strangers, especially in potentially awkward situations like that. It's a defense mechanism. 1
Leigh 87 Posted April 17, 2012 Posted April 17, 2012 Thanks Leigh, that's basically what I was thinking of and what I thought was good enough to be able to succeed at dating. The only thing it looks like I'm lacking is a career and being positive and happy (two things I'm not usually unless I'm playing basketball). Not all quality women look for a degree holder; as long as the guy can talk to them, in a way that makes the women think your intelligent enough and interesting enough to really bother with. I would not, and many attractive women would not, be put off ig a guy had no degree but could hold intelligent conversations, that I loved having. You do not HAVe to have the career down pat and in action yet; as long as you know how to make money n the near future, have a plan, and have a passion in life; be is basketball, travel, things in life you love. If I were a super smart, super hot chick, and from what I have observed from those girls, are: - some like fun, adventerous guys, who would try anything and likes to try NEW things, such as rock climbing a challenging clift face in a group one weekend, as something fun to try together - do u have ineresting things to talk about, do they love hanging about you? You do not need a degree, to have things to talk about, that makes a girl love talking with you. -Just broaden your interests and learn new things constantly, that interest you, but just make it a lifestyle, to be a guy who is always learing new things, and therefore has things to talk about. .. be interesting, in your own unique way of course.
Author fortyninethousand322 Posted April 17, 2012 Author Posted April 17, 2012 How are you so sure that women get annoyed at you? Or rather, what makes you think what they're feeling is "annoyed"? This doesn't match my understanding of how humans generally interact with each other. 'Annoying' isn't the first thing that pops into my mind when I speak to a guy. "Shy", "reserved", "funny", "not my type" (etc.) might come up, but hardly ever annoying. It might help if you give us examples of interactions when you felt a woman was "annoyed". I can understand this happening in a bar scene. Less so if these are women you're meeting through friends. Curt answers or lack of enthusiasm (maybe a wrong word here) when talking with me. It's hard to describe but I see how these same women interact with other men (not even specific men just men who aren't me) and there's a totally different energy there. To be more specific, it's only the attractive single women who are annoyed. I've said this before on here, but back in college I had several friends who were hijabis (Muslim women who wore headscarves) and they were always happy to talk to me, and older coworkers of mine at my last job were always engaged and enthusiastic when I talked to them. But when I go talk to an attractive single (or possibly single) girl it's the total opposite. Now, maybe there's some subconscious signal I'm giving off because I'm not as relaxed around them as I am with other women, but in my initial interactions with them I don't usually feel nervous. So I don't know.
Author fortyninethousand322 Posted April 17, 2012 Author Posted April 17, 2012 Ha. I can imagine someone having this same exact first and second date perception of me.. I'd say my problem lies in the fact that I'm supposedly attractive enough where a girl probably assumes I do fairly well with women when in reality I'm not very smooth. What do you mean by rude? I'm curious. Aloof? I've been told by several different people, male and female, that I appear distant and literally seem to go out of my way to ignore females who they claimed were obviously checking me out and sending signals. I usually do ignore it, and I guess they assume I'm some sort of stuck up ******* rather than someone who happens to be a bit shy around strangers, especially in potentially awkward situations like that. It's a defense mechanism. Yeah this. I'm generally slow to open up. So I can imagine sometimes I do seem rude although I'm not trying to be.
Author fortyninethousand322 Posted April 17, 2012 Author Posted April 17, 2012 Not all quality women look for a degree holder; as long as the guy can talk to them, in a way that makes the women think your intelligent enough and interesting enough to really bother with. I would not, and many attractive women would not, be put off ig a guy had no degree but could hold intelligent conversations, that I loved having. You do not HAVe to have the career down pat and in action yet; as long as you know how to make money n the near future, have a plan, and have a passion in life; be is basketball, travel, things in life you love. If I were a super smart, super hot chick, and from what I have observed from those girls, are: - some like fun, adventerous guys, who would try anything and likes to try NEW things, such as rock climbing a challenging clift face in a group one weekend, as something fun to try together - do u have ineresting things to talk about, do they love hanging about you? You do not need a degree, to have things to talk about, that makes a girl love talking with you. -Just broaden your interests and learn new things constantly, that interest you, but just make it a lifestyle, to be a guy who is always learing new things, and therefore has things to talk about. .. be interesting, in your own unique way of course. Well I mean I do have a degree (one of the few things in life I didn't totally screw up), and I do have interests: economics, foreign affairs, philosophy. I've never tried rock climbing specifically (though I've thought about trying) I do mountain biking though (real mountain biking not the "let's bike on a paved path" kind ). Anyway I get what you're saying here. I guess my biggest issue then is being confident around women and such things. 1
Leigh 87 Posted April 17, 2012 Posted April 17, 2012 Why don't you practice making friends with a lot of girls? If your able to make friends with girls, you that is a good sign. My boyfriend is great at making female friends. Hooking up is often the next stage; if a girl thinks highly enough of you, and is sexually attracted to you, this is how hook ups happen. I would really practice getting better at making female friends.
Leigh 87 Posted April 17, 2012 Posted April 17, 2012 Well I mean I do have a degree (one of the few things in life I didn't totally screw up), and I do have interests: economics, foreign affairs, philosophy. I've never tried rock climbing specifically (though I've thought about trying) I do mountain biking though (real mountain biking not the "let's bike on a paved path" kind ). Anyway I get what you're saying here. I guess my biggest issue then is being confident around women and such things. Great:)! You have a lot of great things that a lot of women would love to tall about and do! You have an interesting range of things you like to do and talk about. All I ccan think of to improve your chances, then, is appearing to be a more positive, warm, and happy person. THEN, when more people gravitate towards you initially, you will get them to stay aroumd, because you do have enough interesting things about yourself, to talk about and do, for women to want to be with you. Being a positive person goes a long way, in initially getting women to talk to u in the frst place. You have a lot going for yourself, therefore it is just GETTINg the women in the first place, that is the thing you need to focus on. You sounds like you need to come across differently perhaps mroe positive, smile more, and make sure to make all women feel good about themselves. Be nice to all women. A nice person who smiles and is pleasant to be around, will garner more attention that a person who does not smile. So simple, but many people over look it, as they are too caught up in their career and other goals, to factor in being a super positive person.
Author fortyninethousand322 Posted April 17, 2012 Author Posted April 17, 2012 Why don't you practice making friends with a lot of girls? If your able to make friends with girls, you that is a good sign. My boyfriend is great at making female friends. Hooking up is often the next stage; if a girl thinks highly enough of you, and is sexually attracted to you, this is how hook ups happen. I would really practice getting better at making female friends. Ok. Now how do I go about doing this? Totally serious question here, outside of school (which I'm done with) I have no idea how to make female friends.
jobaba Posted April 17, 2012 Posted April 17, 2012 Well for one I know I'm way too nervous around women (specifically attractive single ones as noted above). But beyond that I have no idea. All I know is every woman I've ever tried to talk to (in class, on facebook, at a museum or other place) gets annoyed that I'm trying to talk to them. I can only think of two occasions in which I cam away from an interaction with a woman and thought "she might be interested in me". One was an underaged coworker and the other was a girl that broke my heart. I know I'm not smooth or great in the moment with women so maybe that's it. I don't know... Sounds like you're just not aggressive enough. At my last job, there were a couple of guys who were nice guys. Mid 20s, average height, build, decent looking, white. They'd never had girlfriends as far as I knew cause they never really went after it. To be more specific, it's only the attractive single women who are annoyed. I've said this before on here, but back in college I had several friends who were hijabis (Muslim women who wore headscarves) and they were always happy to talk to me, and older coworkers of mine at my last job were always engaged and enthusiastic when I talked to them. But when I go talk to an attractive single (or possibly single) girl it's the total opposite. LOL. It's so funny. I've been through the same thing. It's such a BIG difference. I had a company where I worked with a few young middle eastern women (Palestinean mostly) and a younger Polish woman and they were so sweet and friendly to me. Then the next company was mid 20s to mid 30s white women and they totally ostracized me. They would pretty much ignore me and talk about me behind my back. Brutal.
ScreamingTrees Posted April 17, 2012 Posted April 17, 2012 Yeah this. I'm generally slow to open up. So I can imagine sometimes I do seem rude although I'm not trying to be. You seem to be a lot like me, and maybe I'm wrong, but I truly believe I'm just too complacent with living in solitude for so long, too afraid to go out and challenge myself, get myself out of my comfort zone.. I'll bet you don't really bother going out because like me, you're overwhelmed with the possibilities and probably overthink every single option for good or bad, pros and cons. You just have to do it, like me.. I plan on saving my money for now, I have another year or so before I'm old enough to apply for the job I want, so I'm just enjoying my life until then. I'm happy being alone, but I've also been thinking about how a lot of my friends already have someone in their lives and I'm still coming up blank. You're in good physical shape like me, right? Athletic looking with well cut, moderately developed muscles? You also feel you're more of an intellectual than anything. Do you feel that it's just difficult to find someone who can match those things together? I do too, you're not alone. Doesn't mean you should settle.. Online dating blows, by the way, for MOST people. You'll do best in the flesh.. I got a lot of replies and conversations but it led nowhere ultimately, whereas it probably would've been different in person though I doubt I'll ever get into those kinds of situations in person. (There goes my self defeatist attitude again! ) 1
Author fortyninethousand322 Posted April 17, 2012 Author Posted April 17, 2012 Sounds like you're just not aggressive enough. At my last job, there were a couple of guys who were nice guys. Mid 20s, average height, build, decent looking, white. They'd never had girlfriends as far as I knew cause they never really went after it. I also think I give up too easily. LOL. It's so funny. I've been through the same thing. It's such a BIG difference. I had a company where I worked with a few young middle eastern women (Palestinean mostly) and a younger Polish woman and they were so sweet and friendly to me. Then the next company was mid 20s to mid 30s white women and they totally ostracized me. They would pretty much ignore me and talk about me behind my back. Brutal. This one girl in particular she graduated a year earlier than me but stayed at the school for law school and she worked on campus. Whenever I saw on campus (like she would be walking somewhere or I would be or whatever) she would always stop and chat a few minutes. Honest, decent, genuine friendliness that you rarely encounter in our society (from men or women). Once she even apologized for not being able to talk very long and then later that day hit me up on facebook. Now, I don't expect everyone to be that friendly. But it was refreshing.
Els Posted April 17, 2012 Posted April 17, 2012 You want the female equivalent of you... White, average looks, height, weight, intelligence with a college degree. Unfortunately for you, the female equivalent of you has many guys just like you to choose from. So she's going to choose a guy with better looks or someone who has more than you have going on. I have seen some of the pics of posters here who go on dozens of dates not to mention the hundreds of guys they reject for dates, and they are squarely average looking. Just the way the game is. This makes no sense whatsoever. Clearly those 'female equivalents' are in relationships with SOME men, unless they are lesbians. So you assume that they're going after 'better looking guys'. Then who are the 'better looking girls' in relationships with? The entire 'women all get relationships, men don't' premise is completely logically flawed. It is something that you people coin up to tell yourself or your unsuccessful friends to placate them. Because if it's just your 'gender's fault, then you need not do anything about it, correct? For every non-homosexual woman in a relationship, there is a man in one. Cheaters, polygynous relationships and homosexuals alter this rule, but surely you don't believe that the number of male cheaters and homosexuals outnumber the women so greatly that most women have 'hundreds of men to choose from' and men don't. For as long as you make excuses for these men, they're going to live their whole lives believing in it. 1
Els Posted April 17, 2012 Posted April 17, 2012 Also, FWIW, OP, I think you'd only just come out of unemployment, right, and before that you were a student? Give it time. Be open to talking to women wherever and whenever. Keep up the hard work. It'll come.
Author fortyninethousand322 Posted April 17, 2012 Author Posted April 17, 2012 You seem to be a lot like me, and maybe I'm wrong, but I truly believe I'm just too complacent with living in solitude for so long, too afraid to go out and challenge myself, get myself out of my comfort zone.. I'll bet you don't really bother going out because like me, you're overwhelmed with the possibilities and probably overthink every single option for good or bad, pros and cons. You just have to do it, like me.. I plan on saving my money for now, I have another year or so before I'm old enough to apply for the job I want, so I'm just enjoying my life until then. I'm happy being alone, but I've also been thinking about how a lot of my friends already have someone in their lives and I'm still coming up blank. You're in good physical shape like me, right? Athletic looking with well cut, moderately developed muscles? You also feel you're more of an intellectual than anything. Do you feel that it's just difficult to find someone who can match those things together? I do too, you're not alone. Doesn't mean you should settle.. Online dating blows, by the way, for MOST people. You'll do best in the flesh.. I got a lot of replies and conversations but it led nowhere ultimately, whereas it probably would've been different in person though I doubt I'll ever get into those kinds of situations in person. (There goes my self defeatist attitude again! ) Yeah basically we're almost twins that were separated at birth. 1
Author fortyninethousand322 Posted April 17, 2012 Author Posted April 17, 2012 This makes no sense whatsoever. Clearly those 'female equivalents' are in relationships with SOME men, unless they are lesbians. So you assume that they're going after 'better looking guys'. Then who are the 'better looking girls' in relationships with? The entire 'women all get relationships, men don't' premise is completely logically flawed. It is something that you people coin up to tell yourself or your unsuccessful friends to placate them. Because if it's just your 'gender's fault, then you need not do anything about it, correct? For every non-homosexual woman in a relationship, there is a man in one. Cheaters, polygynous relationships and homosexuals alter this rule, but surely you don't believe that the number of male cheaters and homosexuals outnumber the women so greatly that most women have 'hundreds of men to choose from' and men don't. For as long as you make excuses for these men, they're going to live their whole lives believing in it. Not to take this to conspiracy theory levels but there is something to what jobaba is saying. Take the young (under 40) gender ratio which is just under 105 men for ever 100 women. This varies from locale to locale but let's just take it as an average. Let's say 10% of all men, the top 10% let's say date multiple women at the same time in an arrangement where both women are monogamous with him but he's not with them. 10% of 105 is 10.5 times 2 is 21 so now we're talking about 94.5 men to 81 women. We can adjust for gays, men in prison, etc. but more or less we're talking about gender ratios that skew with more men than women in the developed world. So mathematically men are in somewhat of a disadvantage at least until everyone heads towards old age.
ScreamingTrees Posted April 17, 2012 Posted April 17, 2012 Why don't you practice making friends with a lot of girls? If your able to make friends with girls, you that is a good sign. My boyfriend is great at making female friends. Hooking up is often the next stage; if a girl thinks highly enough of you, and is sexually attracted to you, this is how hook ups happen. I would really practice getting better at making female friends. I've only ever made female aquaintances through a mutual friend, female or male. Usually it'll be more of a friendship if I'd met them through a mutual female friend, but the friendliness dies down fairly quickly after some time. I'm not really sure why, either they imagined I could be into them but realized I wasn't and didn't want to bother, or they just weren't interested in getting to know me as a person. Either scenario sucks, but what can you do.. Usually if I meet them through a male it's even worse, it's just some girl being there PHYSICALLY, but if her head ain't buried in an iPhone or some ****, she's just deep in conversation with someone else in the immediate area, talking about non-inclusive stuff so I'm basically forced to just stand there and say nothing. I'm not being given much to work with in these situations.. At least in the above mentioned scenario we're usually going back and forth for awhile and they seem to be genuinely enjoying hanging out. (Probably not with me.) I just don't see how making female friends would do anything unless they find you attractive. They wouldn't be interested in me.. Why would I want one of them to inevitably set me up with some other pathetic excuse of a person because they were pestered into playing matchmaker.. That's if by some lucky chance such a specifically random thought about a near stranger ever crosses their mind. Sorry, but no thanks.
jobaba Posted April 17, 2012 Posted April 17, 2012 (edited) This makes no sense whatsoever. Clearly those 'female equivalents' are in relationships with SOME men, unless they are lesbians. So you assume that they're going after 'better looking guys'. Then who are the 'better looking girls' in relationships with? The entire 'women all get relationships, men don't' premise is completely logically flawed. It is something that you people coin up to tell yourself or your unsuccessful friends to placate them. Because if it's just your 'gender's fault, then you need not do anything about it, correct? For every non-homosexual woman in a relationship, there is a man in one. Cheaters, polygynous relationships and homosexuals alter this rule, but surely you don't believe that the number of male cheaters and homosexuals outnumber the women so greatly that most women have 'hundreds of men to choose from' and men don't. For as long as you make excuses for these men, they're going to live their whole lives believing in it. Well. When I wrote that, I was mostly thinking of online dating. That was what the OP started his thread talking about. In the real world, where people can actually converse before rejecting, yes it's a bit more equal. But in response to your mathematical riddle, the answer is the average woman dates more than the average man and they chase after a lot of the same guys and those guys date many women. The good looking women go after good looking men and the average looking women go after the same men. It's more of a top heavy curve for guys and a more even distribution for women. I know. My best friend is one of those guys. He dated at least 5 women I was interested in and MANY others on top of that. Mostly average looking. None of them went out with me. And I have friends who have dated less than me. Way less than me as scary as that is... Edited April 17, 2012 by jobaba
Els Posted April 17, 2012 Posted April 17, 2012 Not to take this to conspiracy theory levels but there is something to what jobaba is saying. Take the young (under 40) gender ratio which is just under 105 men for ever 100 women. This varies from locale to locale but let's just take it as an average. Let's say 10% of all men, the top 10% let's say date multiple women at the same time in an arrangement where both women are monogamous with him but he's not with them. 10% of 105 is 10.5 times 2 is 21 so now we're talking about 94.5 men to 81 women. We can adjust for gays, men in prison, etc. but more or less we're talking about gender ratios that skew with more men than women in the developed world. So mathematically men are in somewhat of a disadvantage at least until everyone heads towards old age. Well, yes, because you're talking about 'young' men. As the men on this board will consistently tell you (I don't fully agree with them, but I don't fully disagree either), older men tend to have more options. This has nothing to do with an 'average' woman having it easier than the 'average' man. Young women are not the 'average'. They are a subset of the whole that has youth to their advantage. Just as how, when you make it in your career path, that will work more to your dating advantage than it will to your female equivalent's. Sucks, but this is a duality still present in society sometimes, though I would say it's getting better. Well. When I wrote that, I was mostly thinking of online dating. That was what the OP started his thread talking about. In the real world, where people can actually converse before rejecting, yes it's a bit more equal. But in response to your mathematical riddle, the answer is women date more than men and they chase after a lot of the same guys and those guys date many women. The good looking women go after good looking men and the average looking women go after the same men. I know. My best friend is one of those guys. He dated at least 5 women I was interested in. Mostly average looking. None of them went out with me. And I have friends who have dated less than me. Way less than me as scary as that is... And you don't think very good looking women date as many men as very good looking men date women? 1
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