the right to be picky

[fortyninethousand322]

Also, it's not like I'm a 45 year old man who's looking to date 20 year olds. I had been hoping for someone my own age (21-27 or so) reasonably attractive, who doesn't have any kids. Because, that's basically what I can offer in return.

 

I guess for me it's this conundrum between what I think could be reasonable standards and what experience has proven to me.

[Kamille]

Yeah I guess what really set this off for me was when I logged into a dating site today. It said I had one new message in my inbox which I was hoping was from one of the 3 women I messaged yesterday. Instead it was from a woman who was not physically attractive to me, had nothing in common with me and had 2 children.

 

I don't know, I hope I'm not overly shallow or picky but being a somewhat intellectual, in shape young guy I tend to be attracted to that type of woman. The idea that maybe I'm reaching too far in hoping to find someone like that is a little disheartening.

 

I guess the problem has a lot to do with online dating.

 

I agree. The way I see it, on-line dating is tool to meet more singles. I don't think it should be seen, as it often is, as a sure-fire way to find love. If, instead of using OLD to find "the perfect match" you use instead to "meet more people", the whole thing is less likely to be so daunting. Your criteria are, also, less likely to be so rigid. You're not shopping for an on-line bride. You're merely trying to meet other singles in your area.

 

I defend your right to feel attracted to the person you fall in love with. That said, so far, the criteria you listed for picking a mate do not seem to match the type of relationship you seem to be saying you want.

 

If I understand correctly, you want a woman with whom you can have intellectual debates and who might be at a similar stage in life as you. You want to feel attracted to her. Are you sure the criteria (picture-attractive, no children) you're using to reject the women who contact you are effective in meeting that person? How do you know whether or not you can have an intellectual debate (and even, IMO, be physically attracted) until you actually talk to the person, see how they move, how they express themselves, etc? There's a long path between agreeing to meet someone and falling in love with someone. It is the nature of on-line dating that it's mostly miss and sometimes hit. Meeting someone doesn't commit you to a relationship.

 

I guess what I'm saying is OLD is a tool. Adjust your expectations accordingly. Don't sweat the small stuff, have fun and maybe just maybe you'll meet your great love this way.

[fortyninethousand322]

I agree. The way I see it, on-line dating is tool to meet more singles. I don't think it should be seen, as it often is, as a sure-fire way to find love. If, instead of using OLD to find "the perfect match" you use instead to "meet more people", the whole thing is less likely to be so daunting. Your criteria are, also, less likely to be so rigid. You're not shopping for an on-line bride. You're merely trying to meet other singles in your area.

 

I defend your right to feel attracted to the person you fall in love with. That said, so far, the criteria you listed for picking a mate do not seem to match the type of relationship you seem to be saying you want.

 

If I understand correctly, you want a woman with whom you can have intellectual debates and who might be at a similar stage in life as you. You want to feel attracted to her. Are you sure the criteria (picture-attractive, no children) you're using to reject the women who contact you are effective in meeting that person? How do you know whether or not you can have an intellectual debate (and even, IMO, be physically attracted) until you actually talk to the person, see how they move, how they express themselves, etc? There's a long path between agreeing to meet someone and falling in love with someone. It is the nature of on-line dating that it's mostly miss and sometimes hit. Meeting someone doesn't commit you to a relationship.

 

I guess what I'm saying is OLD is a tool. Adjust your expectations accordingly. Don't sweat the small stuff, have fun and maybe just maybe you'll meet your great love this way.

 

"Intellectual" is sort of a vague term. By it I mean someone who isn't an airhead (no offense to airheads). That's a quality I can't really determine by looking at a profile or reading someone's message. So I agree with you there.

 

There were a myriad of issues with the specific person who sent the message today. One I forgot to mention here was distance. She lived about an hour's drive away, in a rural area. If I'm going to take an hour to drive and meet you I'd prefer that there be some possibility there and not just meeting for the sake of meeting.

 

In any case this isn't totally about OLD, and my issues go beyond it as well. Being in my 20s I should be going on dates much more often than I have been. What this is mostly about is whether or not my standards are reasonable given my circumstances or I suppose can those standards even be controlled, or are we just attracted to who we are attracted to? Like, if I was a 24 year old guy and everything about me was the same except I went on dates often and had girlfriends in the past would things be drastically different?

[ASG]

I don't think you should stop being picky EVER. By being picky, I mean not dating someone you have no interest in, be it something physical or otherwise.

 

I once had a guy declare his undying love for me. I was fully aware of his feelings and had tried to avoid the subject, as I really wasn't interested, but he didn't take the hint and decided to ask me out, again. I said no, again and he proceded to say that we needed to talk, blah blah blah, he was in love with me.

So far it was only an awkward conversation that I had wished to avoid. But then he decided to try and reason with me. Try to make me see how good a match we were. Which, to be fair, we could be, we had TONS in common, I just wasn't attracted to him and didn't really go into it with him, for whatever reason.

 

Then he got angry. And you know what he said? That I should take him, because he was the only guy that had paid any attention to me in the past year, so clearly there was no point in me waiting for my knight in shining armour, because he wasn't going to show up.

His wording wasn't exactly like this, but almost. He definitely said "I am the only guy that has taken an interest in you in the past year", which, in his view, made him perfect, I guess.

I cannot tell you how angry I was. First of all, because it wasn't true and I was actually casually dating someone else, a fact that I had kept quiet, so as to not hurt him (and also because it was casual, no need to tell my friends about it), and second of all, because of his assumption that, because I didn't have a boyfriend or someone else interested in me, that I should just start dating him, because he was the best available and the best I could get.

 

I didn't speak to him for ages after that. He was beyond offensive in his remark. So yeah... being picky is my prerogative, even if it means I won't get a date, ever! I'm fine with that. But I will only date people I want to, not someone I feel is below what I'd wish, but is my "only" option.

[jobaba]

Also, it's not like I'm a 45 year old man who's looking to date 20 year olds. I had been hoping for someone my own age (21-27 or so) reasonably attractive, who doesn't have any kids. Because, that's basically what I can offer in return.

 

I guess for me it's this conundrum between what I think could be reasonable standards and what experience has proven to me.

 

You want the female equivalent of you...

 

White, average looks, height, weight, intelligence with a college degree.

 

Unfortunately for you, the female equivalent of you has many guys just like you to choose from. So she's going to choose a guy with better looks or someone who has more than you have going on.

 

I have seen some of the pics of posters here who go on dozens of dates not to mention the hundreds of guys they reject for dates, and they are squarely average looking.

 

Just the way the game is.

[Kamille]

 

In any case this isn't totally about OLD, and my issues go beyond it as well. Being in my 20s I should be going on dates much more often than I have been. What this is mostly about is whether or not my standards are reasonable given my circumstances or I suppose can those standards even be controlled, or are we just attracted to who we are attracted to? Like, if I was a 24 year old guy and everything about me was the same except I went on dates often and had girlfriends in the past would things be drastically different?

 

You're 24. You're pretty young. I think you're letting your expectations get in your own way. Women clearly find you attractive enough to approach you on an OLD site (even if you don't find them attractive) and it sounds like you do go on dates. If, as I understand correctly, your goal is to find a fulfilling relationship, how much you dated in the past shouldn't get in the way of finding that one girl who will rock your world. (You only need one, not 30).

 

Zengirl will recognize this () but I'm currently reading a book called Meeting your Half Orange. It advocates that people focus on the relationship that they want and not the person they want.

 

The way I see it, one of your challenges right now, whether on-line or in real-life, is figuring out what relationship you want and whether your criteria for getting that relationship match. Right now, I'm here to tell you, it's not completely off, but it's not entirely on. Instead of thinking about what you don't want in a woman, think about what you want in a relationship.

[fortyninethousand322]

You want the female equivalent of you...

 

White, average looks, height, weight, intelligence with a college degree.

 

Unfortunately for you, the female equivalent of you has many guys just like you to choose from. So she's going to choose a guy with better looks or someone who has more than you have going on.

 

I have seen some of the pics of posters here who go on dozens of dates not to mention the hundreds of guys they reject for dates, and they are squarely average looking.

 

Just the way the game is.

 

So where does that leave me?

[fortyninethousand322]

You're 24. You're pretty young. I think you're letting your expectations get in your own way. Women clearly find you attractive enough to approach you on an OLD site (even if you don't find them attractive) and it sounds like you do go on dates. If, as I understand correctly, your goal is to find a fulfilling relationship, how much you dated in the past shouldn't get in the way of finding that one girl who will rock your world. (You only need one, not 30).

 

The last time I went on a date was February 2011. Before that May 2010. I'm not sure the May 2010 was even a date. Both times the women disappeared after I tried to pursue things further.

 

Whenever I try to talk to women they always seem to be annoyed, like I'm bothering them. The only ones who don't are the ones I'm specifically friends with. So I mean part of this is dating which I don't really know how to do well, which I'm hoping leads to a good relationship.

[jobaba]

 

I once had a guy declare his undying love for me. I was fully aware of his feelings and had tried to avoid the subject, as I really wasn't interested, but he didn't take the hint and decided to ask me out, again. I said no, again and he proceded to say that we needed to talk, blah blah blah, he was in love with me.

So far it was only an awkward conversation that I had wished to avoid. But then he decided to try and reason with me. Try to make me see how good a match we were. Which, to be fair, we could be, we had TONS in common, I just wasn't attracted to him and didn't really go into it with him, for whatever reason.

 

 

It doesn't sound like you handled that well.

 

Rejection hurts. A lot. You expect ... blah, blah, blah ... he'll just go away.

 

Just consider that the next time somebody 'falls in love with you', whether it be tomorrow or next week.

 

This is exactly the kind of stuff that makes men bitter. He thinks he has a connection with you and you guys are close and you're like, "Just go away, you loser."

[Kamille]

The last time I went on a date was February 2011. Before that May 2010. I'm not sure the May 2010 was even a date. Both times the women disappeared after I tried to pursue things further.

 

Whenever I try to talk to women they always seem to be annoyed, like I'm bothering them. The only ones who don't are the ones I'm specifically friends with. So I mean part of this is dating which I don't really know how to do well, which I'm hoping leads to a good relationship.

 

90% of the men I dated I've met through my own social networks. Don't be fazed by the fact that cold-approaching women results in low returns. It's already amazing that you're doing it!

[jobaba]

So where does that leave me?

 

In the same place as the rest of us

 

-Work on your game

 

-Become successful and financially solvent

 

-Be a social butterfly and do interesting things

 

-Play the numbers and hit on many women

 

-Be more aggressive than the next guy

 

Hmmm. Anything else?

[fortyninethousand322]

90% of the men I dated I've met through my own social networks. Don't be fazed by the fact that cold-approaching women results in low returns. It's already amazing that you're doing it!

 

Yeah. I'd love to meet women through my social networks. Unfortunately my social network is a sausage fest. Even when I do meet a woman through my social network (like my basketball team last summer) the women there reacted the same way as they do when I cold approach women. Whether it's through facebook, IM's, in person whatever they seem disinterested at best or annoyed at worst.

[PlumPrincess]

I guess the problem has a lot to do with online dating. Since it's so impersonal you can categorize and exclude certain people since you don't know them. You can pick out things you don't like about a stranger where if it's someone you know those things are just "quirks" I guess.

 

The other thing of course is that I just can't seem to get anyone I'm interested in to be interested in me (online or offline). That gets pretty frustrating after a while. And I'm starting to wonder why exactly that is. Other than Plumprincess's idea that it was due to my pictures.

I remember you looked kind of grim and gloomy in some of your pictures. Others looked so random. And I'm against pictures where there's a bunch of other people who surely didn't get asked if they wanted to appear on an online dating site.

 

Ask someone with a good camera to take pictures of you. If they have a good camera, they probably like taking pictures and they will probably put even more effort in it when they know they can help you get more dates with their pictures.

 

Remember girls you like? I bet, you liked them, because they were friendly, happy and smiled a lot. Emulate people you like.

[GetTheClou]

The other thing of course is that I think I've gotten obsessed. I wake up most days angry that I can't figure out how to get dates or relationships. I get angry when I see people walking down the street hand in hand. It's hard for me to say to myself "wait 6 months or 2 years until you've made it then worry about dating". It's extremely frustrating.

 

Some people in this forum would call this desperate, I'd rather say that you might need to change your mindset a bit.

 

about being picky and stuff:

Personally, I can only identify 3 things that are an absolute must for me to be interested in a woman: intelligent, slim, no kids

 

Surprisingly enough #1 was the deal breaker most of the time. I've had my share with women physically but I can safely say that I only met 2 women in my life that fulfilled my high standard for intelligence for a LTR (and were available/interested in me). So...would you consider this "list" picky? I don't know. But let's face it, not everyone is getting what they are looking, taking a look at my friends I sometimes even tend to believe that it's the minority of people who get what they truly desire. And sometimes it's just having a good time in spring break, nothing more nothing less

[AD1980]

Im 31 year old virgin yet id rather die alone then be with somebody i have no attraction to at all

 

It wouldn't be fair to myself or the other person becssue i know i couldnt last in a relationship with no physical spark for me at all

[firehawk_1]

no one has the right to be picky. it gets you no where and you end up going lower than where you were. women are far too picky and fussy, guys have really had enough of unrealisticness.

it is no wonder there are far tooo many games being played and far too many single people and far too much of "cant find a decent guy/gal" statements

[somedude81]

Also, it's not like I'm a 45 year old man who's looking to date 20 year olds. I had been hoping for someone my own age (21-27 or so) reasonably attractive, who doesn't have any kids. Because, that's basically what I can offer in return.

 

I guess for me it's this conundrum between what I think could be reasonable standards and what experience has proven to me.

You want the female equivalent of you...

 

White, average looks, height, weight, intelligence with a college degree.

 

Unfortunately for you, the female equivalent of you has many guys just like you to choose from. So she's going to choose a guy with better looks or someone who has more than you have going on.

 

I have seen some of the pics of posters here who go on dozens of dates not to mention the hundreds of guys they reject for dates, and they are squarely average looking.

 

Just the way the game is.

Jobaba is right. Women don't want their equivalent, they want better. And that's because they can get it thanks to them being women.

 

My suggestion which I am going to start doing for myself, pick some things as deal breakers then go for everybody that doesn't have them.

[ASG]

It doesn't sound like you handled that well.

 

Rejection hurts. A lot. You expect ... blah, blah, blah ... he'll just go away.

 

Just consider that the next time somebody 'falls in love with you', whether it be tomorrow or next week.

 

This is exactly the kind of stuff that makes men bitter. He thinks he has a connection with you and you guys are close and you're like, "Just go away, you loser."

 

You're getting it wrong. I knew he was in love with me way before he told me. I wanted to avoid the conversation because I didn't want to hurt him (we were close friends). The blah blah blah was just my way of,oin this board, saying that he talked and said he was in love with me. The conversation happened years ago, I don't remember all of it.

 

I told him I wasn't interested and he proceeded to tell me I *had* to take him because I had no other suitors. Which is just not true. I don't *have* to get into a relationship with ANYONE if I don't feel like it.

 

Like someone said before, I'd rather die alone than enter into a relationship where I have no attraction to the other person.

 

I know rejection hurts. I've been rejected plenty of times myself. I hoped he'd take the hint from me refusing to go out with him. He didn't. He told me how he felt. I told him I didn't feel the same. And then he acted like a bitch. *that* is not my fault or my problem.

[xXMarlboro_ManXx]

Ideally no one wants to lower their standards for anything but for online you got to play the hand you are dealt. If you are not getting any messages back that is probably a pretty good sign that your standards are too high. That doesn't mean stop trying though if you 33% from the field in the NBA you are out of the league in the MLB you're an allstar in OLD 1 for 10 isn't bad. I'm not saying lower you standards but dating experience is still dating experience even if she is not a beauty queen. Make what you can out of OLD, use it as a tool to help find women irl where having standards is easier.

[Leigh 87]

You DO have the right to be picky, but if you do not have that much to offer, you will have to either take what you an get, or wait a long time until a higher quality person goes for you when they are down on their luck; they will end up leaving you any ways, if your not good enough in some sort of way.

 

 

Take what u can get, wait for al ong time for a better offer, or improve yourself.

 

I improved myself, and got a lot more attention. I worked out daily, became thin, and got braces. Personality wise, I have become a very positive and happy person, which most people enjoy being around.

[somedude81]

You DO have the right to be picky, but if you do not have that much to offer, you will have to either take what you an get, or wait a long time until a higher quality person goes for you when they are down on their luck; they will end up leaving you any ways, if your not good enough in some sort of way.

 

 

Take what u can get, wait for al ong time for a better offer, or improve yourself.

 

I improved myself, and got a lot more attention. I worked out daily, became thin, and got braces. Personality wise, I have become a very positive and happy person, which most people enjoy being around.

I'm jealous of your dog in your avatar. Especially in the full size picture.

[Leigh 87]

I'm jealous of your dog in your avatar. Especially in the full size picture.

 

 

Aren't they adorable!!!!! The little Chihuahua is mine ( not a teacup one, a cross breed)

 

I love them so much. I feel the most attractive when i am around them, because I express so much love. The other two are my b/f's but I sitll love them.

 

..they all get to see me naked haha, a lot of hot girls have cute dogs, that I am sure they get changed in front of!

 

lucky dog all aroud the world I say haha

[fortyninethousand322]

You DO have the right to be picky, but if you do not have that much to offer, you will have to either take what you an get, or wait a long time until a higher quality person goes for you when they are down on their luck; they will end up leaving you any ways, if your not good enough in some sort of way.

 

 

Take what u can get, wait for al ong time for a better offer, or improve yourself.

 

I improved myself, and got a lot more attention. I worked out daily, became thin, and got braces. Personality wise, I have become a very positive and happy person, which most people enjoy being around.

 

Perhaps this is a thread topic in and of itself, but what exactly do you consider to be a catch? The only things that I think I fall short on is confidence, money, and the fact that I have a receding hairline. Otherwise, I think I have a good personality and good looks (I'm not fat or anything).

 

So what else would I work on? What is keeping me back from being "high quality"? Is it only money and confidence?

[somedude81]

Aren't they adorable!!!!! The little Chihuahua is mine ( not a teacup one, a cross breed)

 

I love them so much. I feel the most attractive when i am around them, because I express so much love. The other two are my b/f's but I sitll love them.

 

..they all get to see me naked haha, a lot of hot girls have cute dogs, that I am sure they get changed in front of!

 

lucky dog all aroud the world I say haha

OMG, I didn't even notice that there was more than one dog in the picture till you mentioned it. My eyes were focused..elsewhere, on the cute puppy

Perhaps this is a thread topic in and of itself, but what exactly do you consider to be a catch? The only things that I think I fall short on is confidence, money, and the fact that I have a receding hairline. Otherwise, I think I have a good personality and good looks (I'm not fat or anything).

 

So what else would I work on? What is keeping me back from being "high quality"? Is it only money and confidence?

Quick question, how would you describe your mood/personality when you are around women?

[irc333]

Actually, people should start deciding to reassess their dating criteria when their own friends and relatives start to think or tell them that they should start changing their standards to something more realistic.

 

When you're friends and relatives are pointing this out, you know you have a problem.

 

 

 

At what point should someone who is perpetually dateless give up their standards?

 

I ask this because of my experiences with online dating. Over the past two months since trying it again I've gotten back a single response to my messages (which I probably screwed up by asking to meet to early). But I've gotten a few (4) unsolicited messages from women I'm just not interested in (mid to late 30s, single mothers, massively overweight, nothing in common etc.). I ignored the messages as a) I'm not interested and b) these are messages that have nothing to talk about.

 

But, I feel bad. I feel like, well gee I don't have a bunch of women knocking down my door to try to date me so do I even have a right to be picky about who I date? Shouldn't I just take whatever I can get? Or is that unfair to the other person because I really wouldn't be interested in them?

 

I don't know maybe I'm just rambling but I've gotten pretty disenchanted with online dating.