the right to be picky

[fortyninethousand322]

At what point should someone who is perpetually dateless give up their standards?

 

I ask this because of my experiences with online dating. Over the past two months since trying it again I've gotten back a single response to my messages (which I probably screwed up by asking to meet to early). But I've gotten a few (4) unsolicited messages from women I'm just not interested in (mid to late 30s, single mothers, massively overweight, nothing in common etc.). I ignored the messages as a) I'm not interested and b) these are messages that have nothing to talk about.

 

But, I feel bad. I feel like, well gee I don't have a bunch of women knocking down my door to try to date me so do I even have a right to be picky about who I date? Shouldn't I just take whatever I can get? Or is that unfair to the other person because I really wouldn't be interested in them?

 

I don't know maybe I'm just rambling but I've gotten pretty disenchanted with online dating.

[Radu]

If you're a guy, drop online dating.

[Philosoraptor]

You're picking a partner and you have the right to be as picky as you'd like.... I don't care what anyone says.

 

If you don't like something about a person from the start, you're not going to suddenly like it later on. If you see a dealbreaker from first glance, then that needs to be your only glance.

 

I'm not saying build a mold and find an exact match; but know what you need from a partner and what you are not willing to accept. Plenty of people are bound to fall in that range.

 

If online dating isn't working then leave the internet and find someone in the flesh.

[fortyninethousand322]

Yeah that's the thing, I have no idea how or where to meet women.

[Els]

My suggestion to you would be:

 

1) Work on yourself first. You mention that you've been unemployed for a very, very long time. Fix that.

 

2) Try other avenues of meeting people.

 

3) Try broadening your mind to the different types of women and searching yourself to find out what you really need in a relationship, instead of just going off an old checklist. This is NOT the same thing as settling. Though I'm not sure that that's possible to do in OLD, since everything IS inherently a checklist there.

[fortyninethousand322]

My suggestion to you would be:

 

1) Work on yourself first. You mention that you've been unemployed for a very, very long time. Fix that.

 

2) Try other avenues of meeting people.

 

3) Try broadening your mind to the different types of women and searching yourself to find out what you really need in a relationship, instead of just going off an old checklist. This is NOT the same thing as settling. Though I'm not sure that that's possible to do in OLD, since everything IS inherently a checklist there.

 

Well, I've started a company with a friend of mine. We're slowly but surely working our way up. Reality is that I won't be working anything but minimum wage jobs for a while unless this business works. Not many women interested in that.

 

The other thing of course is that I think I've gotten obsessed. I wake up most days angry that I can't figure out how to get dates or relationships. I get angry when I see people walking down the street hand in hand. It's hard for me to say to myself "wait 6 months or 2 years until you've made it then worry about dating". It's extremely frustrating.

[Els]

Minimum wage is ok, IMO. I know guys who work min wage but have gfs.

[fortyninethousand322]

But the question still remains, especially in light of SD's comments about fat people in the other thread: does someone like me have a right to be picky?

[Els]

I think Kamille's response to him summed up the entire issue: Own your requirements and live with the constraints.

[fortyninethousand322]

Which is wonderful in theory, but in reality you end with a darned if you do darned if you don't situation. Either you'll be unhappy with the person you're dating because you gave up your standards or you end up the 40 year old virgin and equally unhappy.

 

And I understand hey I'm unemployed etc. but I was having these issues even when I had a job and I was a college student (trying to date other college students). It isn't like I've been in this economic rut my whole life.

[zengirl]

I think Kamille's response to him summed up the entire issue: Own your requirements and live with the constraints.

 

Right. Everyone has a 'right' to be picky. Some things you may be picky about are turnoffs to people (for instance, men who are superficial or materialistic are a bummer to me, so men who were picky about those things primarily would not be men I'd date, even if they met my other standards and I met their standards -- these kinds of guys have often asked me out, but I married someone who wasn't like that), so it's good to realize that and see if you really care about those things in a deeper sense. You may find you do.

 

I think there are people who are irrationally picky. They're entitled to be! Hell, I've seen some of them get what they wanted that I thought was impossible -- good for them! I've also seen some of those people change their mindset towards a healthier end and be successful, but that has to be a change they WANTED to make and does not generally include things like dating people who repulse you. Whatever that means to you. I think it's great to challenge your own standards constantly, to make sure they really are representative of what you want and need, but that doesn't mean anyone is obligated to change them.

 

It also doesn't mean anyone is obligated to date anyone ever. I see a lot of people "lower" their standards, date or try to date someone they feel is "below," them, and then get rejected and be ANGRY at the person who's rejecting them because they felt they were "better" and thus entitled. That's gross. You're (general you) not entitled to anything -- not someone hot, not someone average, not someone ugly, etc (apply to every trait, not just looks). No one is. There's no "I earned that" in dating. You can't earn the affection of another person; you just have to hope you mutually stumble across it.

 

Improving yourself, putting yourself out there, and trying things to see what works are the way you do that. Sometimes what needs to be tried is even backing off, though. Everyone has their own lessons to learn.

[Radu]

Harder to say than do, but i would try to become indifferent to the outcome.

[Els]

OP, as long as you're working on some sort of plan for your life, I think it isn't entirely impossible to find an interested woman. Just gotta keep looking and keep working on yourself.

 

Right. Everyone has a 'right' to be picky. Some things you may be picky about are turnoffs to people (for instance, men who are superficial or materialistic are a bummer to me, so men who were picky about those things primarily would not be men I'd date, even if they met my other standards and I met their standards -- these kinds of guys have often asked me out, but I married someone who wasn't like that), so it's good to realize that and see if you really care about those things in a deeper sense. You may find you do.

 

Yep, ditto.

[fortyninethousand322]

It also doesn't mean anyone is obligated to date anyone ever. I see a lot of people "lower" their standards, date or try to date someone they feel is "below," them, and then get rejected and be ANGRY at the person who's rejecting them because they felt they were "better" and thus entitled. That's gross. You're (general you) not entitled to anything -- not someone hot, not someone average, not someone ugly, etc (apply to every trait, not just looks). No one is. There's no "I earned that" in dating. You can't earn the affection of another person; you just have to hope you mutually stumble across it.

 

That's what I'm worried about sometimes, among other things. I don't want to date someone just because I think they're easy to get because I'm "better" than them (physically or otherwise). I just don't want to ever get that attitude about the whole thing.

 

But then again I put about 95% of all women as "out of my league" so to speak. Whenever I see a woman (whether at the store, when I was at work, in classes, etc.) who seems funny, attractive, nice, etc. I automatically wonder why the heck she'd ever be interested in me. So I constantly have this weird dance in my head between feeling like I'm too picky and then feeling like I'm constantly selling myself short.

[zengirl]

That's what I'm worried about sometimes, among other things. I don't want to date someone just because I think they're easy to get because I'm "better" than them (physically or otherwise). I just don't want to ever get that attitude about the whole thing.

 

But then again I put about 95% of all women as "out of my league" so to speak. Whenever I see a woman (whether at the store, when I was at work, in classes, etc.) who seems funny, attractive, nice, etc. I automatically wonder why the heck she'd ever be interested in me. So I constantly have this weird dance in my head between feeling like I'm too picky and then feeling like I'm constantly selling myself short.

 

Take the Oklahoma (the musical) philosophy: "I don't say I'm no better than anybody else, but I'll be damned if I ain't just as good" (poor grammar aside, a good way to live, IME).

[jobaba]

At what point should someone who is perpetually dateless give up their standards?

 

I ask this because of my experiences with online dating. Over the past two months since trying it again I've gotten back a single response to my messages (which I probably screwed up by asking to meet to early). But I've gotten a few (4) unsolicited messages from women I'm just not interested in (mid to late 30s, single mothers, massively overweight, nothing in common etc.). I ignored the messages as a) I'm not interested and b) these are messages that have nothing to talk about.

 

But, I feel bad. I feel like, well gee I don't have a bunch of women knocking down my door to try to date me so do I even have a right to be picky about who I date? Shouldn't I just take whatever I can get? Or is that unfair to the other person because I really wouldn't be interested in them?

 

I don't know maybe I'm just rambling but I've gotten pretty disenchanted with online dating.

 

I personally disagree with the masses here.

 

Seeing as how you're one of the guys here who's never had a woman, I think it would be beneficial to get some dating experience.

 

Which is not to say date someone you find physically repulsive, and idiotic and offensive. But maybe give someone a try who isn't your type.

 

You're 24? It's not you're getting married. You're still navigating the waters. Date casually. Why not?

 

People are more alike than you think. If you have ever spent a lot of forced time alone with somebody who is different from you (work, school, prison ), you realize that you can get along with a more diverse group of people than you'd initially imagine.

 

Think about it. When was the last time you heard a poster mention in their standards things like: loyalty, kindness, supportiveness, or even largely intelligence for that matter.

 

It's always looks, height and income. If you can look past that stuff, you can find a good, fun gal.

[ThaWholigan]

At what point should someone who is perpetually dateless give up their standards?

 

I ask this because of my experiences with online dating. Over the past two months since trying it again I've gotten back a single response to my messages (which I probably screwed up by asking to meet to early). But I've gotten a few (4) unsolicited messages from women I'm just not interested in (mid to late 30s, single mothers, massively overweight, nothing in common etc.). I ignored the messages as a) I'm not interested and b) these are messages that have nothing to talk about.

 

But, I feel bad. I feel like, well gee I don't have a bunch of women knocking down my door to try to date me so do I even have a right to be picky about who I date? Shouldn't I just take whatever I can get? Or is that unfair to the other person because I really wouldn't be interested in them?

 

I don't know maybe I'm just rambling but I've gotten pretty disenchanted with online dating.

Don't just take what you can get. It's a recipe for disaster that won't do you or your prospective partner any favors if you went through with it.

 

Being picky about who you date, have sex with or get in a relationship with should be a no-brainer. Don't worry about having to settle, you simply have to focus on your life and making yourself happier and improving. Then you will surely have more options open to you, and you won't have to worry about how "picky" you are

 

EDIT: To add to Jobaba's post, it certainly helps to focus on what you personally find attractive in any given area, rather than what you should find attractive.

[fortyninethousand322]

I personally disagree with the masses here.

 

Seeing as how you're one of the guys here who's never had a woman, I think it would be beneficial to get some dating experience.

 

Which is not to say date someone you find physically repulsive, and idiotic and offensive. But maybe give someone a try who isn't your type.

 

You're 24? It's not you're getting married. You're still navigating the waters. Date casually. Why not?

 

People are more alike than you think. If you have ever spent a lot of forced time alone with somebody who is different from you (work, school, prison ), you realize that you can get along with a more diverse group of people than you'd initially imagine.

 

Think about it. When was the last time you heard a poster mention in their standards things like: loyalty, kindness, supportiveness, or even largely intelligence for that matter.

 

It's always looks, height and income. If you can look past that stuff, you can find a good, fun gal.

 

Yeah I guess what really set this off for me was when I logged into a dating site today. It said I had one new message in my inbox which I was hoping was from one of the 3 women I messaged yesterday. Instead it was from a woman who was not physically attractive to me, had nothing in common with me and had 2 children.

 

I don't know, I hope I'm not overly shallow or picky but being a somewhat intellectual, in shape young guy I tend to be attracted to that type of woman. The idea that maybe I'm reaching too far in hoping to find someone like that is a little disheartening.

[RiverRunning]

I think it depends on the degree to which you 'dislike' something about somebody (and this is different for men and women too...I think women are better able to develop physical attraction over time, where it's either there or it isn't for men).

 

You have to prioritize. How overweight does someone have to be before it goes from being a slight negative to being a HUGE negative? How unattractive in general? How different?

 

For what it's worth, my ex and I had vastly different interests. He was more interested in electronics - he had a ham radio license, he was a programmer, etc. He was a big bookworm who was solitary and enjoyed staying at home. On the other hand, I was more prone to going out (to clubs, shows, etc.), enjoyed exercise, writing, playing video games, etc.

 

One of my male friends met his boyfriend online. Again, vastly different: friend's atheist, his boyfriend's a devout Christian. His boyfriend's also a very logical sort of guy and my friend's more head-in-the-clouds. One likes working with computers and flying helicopters, the other likes to paint and daydream. I never would have seen it working out but they're remarkably happy together.

 

I think that if you're looking for a partner, different interests - even vastly different ones - need not be an issue. At the end of the day, it is something to learn from. And as long as you have at least a FEW hobbies to do together - my ex and I loved watching the same types of movies, he even started going to work out with me a little toward the end of our relationship, and we would have parties here and there for our close family and friends - I'd say your golden.

 

The real secret to compatibility? Agreement on general lifestyle choices, how to raise kids, religion, political affiliations (in general, but not always on the last two - you need to have at least an understanding that you each come from different backgrounds), etc. At the end of the day, the fact that my ex and I had vastly different hobbies didn't play much of a role.

 

I say keep looking for dates. If you meet a woman and you're on the fence about her...go meet her. Spending one evening having dinner with her, or even two, will not kill you. Even if you sort of dislike her, but think there might be potential, go meet her.

 

My general rule of thumb is to always give a person two dates (if they're also willing to do the same for me!), unless they're super creepy or something on the first date. I've found that sometimes my first impressions are right, while other times, like with my ex, they're very wrong.

 

I thought my ex was rude the first time we met. After meeting him for a second time, I realized that he was just socially awkward and shy.

[Ruby Slippers]

Think about it. When was the last time you heard a poster mention in their standards things like: loyalty, kindness, supportiveness, or even largely intelligence for that matter.

 

It's always looks, height and income.

I always look for the interior qualities. Shiny packaging might catch my attention briefly, but it doesn't hold it. I need to know the quality of what's inside.

 

fortynine, I made the conscious choice to lower my standards a bit over the past couple of years and get lightly involved with a few guys I knew didn't have staying power. For me, this was the right decision. It lifted my spirits and made me feel sexy and excited to meet real prospects again. I never misled these guys, and made sure those casual relationships were mutually beneficial.

 

I see nothing wrong with you or anyone doing the same, as long as you're honest and don't lead people on.

 

People need to be with people. You or they don't have to be perfect.

[RiverRunning]

Yeah I guess what really set this off for me was when I logged into a dating site today. It said I had one new message in my inbox which I was hoping was from one of the 3 women I messaged yesterday. Instead it was from a woman who was not physically attractive to me, had nothing in common with me and had 2 children.

 

I don't know, I hope I'm not overly shallow or picky but being a somewhat intellectual, in shape young guy I tend to be attracted to that type of woman. The idea that maybe I'm reaching too far in hoping to find someone like that is a little disheartening.

 

 

You're getting attention. I do detect a hint of smugness in your posts - perhaps not intentionally. At the end of the day, dating online does tend to be a crap chute. You get a lot of attention from folks you're not particularly interested in and a few from folks you are (generally, anyway). Take it for what it is - appreciate that someone out there saw you as attractive and took the time to message you.

 

People can't read your mind and know what you find attractive or not, just the same as you can't read another woman's mind if you send her a message. I've seen guys with six packs who really love fat women. I've seen idiots who have a thing for very educated women.

 

As for why you're not able to find women in your league, so to speak - take a double look at your profile. Are you representing yourself honestly, completely?

 

I see a lot of common mistakes on men's profiles. They play up how much money they make and the awesome car they have...and that's about it. I've also seen profiles full of guys showing off their abs. Sure, that's attractive. But after fapping to it, I'm probably just going to move on - too showy for me.

 

Then there are the types who have thousands of comments spread through their profile like, "Don't message me if...I won't respond if...I don't like..." Keeping that to a minimum is helpful. There are fewer things less attractive than a guy who comes off as too picky and too critical from the get-go. No matter how great a prospect he might be otherwise, I wouldn't have the patience for someone who seems rejection-eager from the start.

 

I do think it's good that you're just ignoring the messages you get from women you're not interested in - the meaning is implicit. Nothing stings more than getting a message back from a guy who chooses to pick your profile apart, stating all the things he doesn't like about you. It's best just to let it go. For guys who DO reply to every message, for better or worse, prepare for some 'reviews' of your profile to get passed around. It's not uncommon for friends to all be on the same site. If you're a jerk to one, that can get passed around.

[Mme. Chaucer]

The term "being picky" is misleading, IMO.

 

I don't think that it's a good idea for ANYONE to go for someone who is not attractive to them just because that's who they "can get." As Wholigan says, it's a recipe for disaster, and it's also inherently cruel. Who wants to be with a person because they have reached their last resort??

 

I do think it's wise to try to expand ones horizons, though. If you are very rigid in the "type" you would like, you might try to forget about that and talk to new people with an open attitude.

 

I think I'm lucky that I don't have a "type." Well, on paper, I do - if I were just looking at pictures of male models, there would be those who got my attention. When it comes down to it, though, it's been more about the energy and connection with a person (which I do get a sense of right away) than ANY of his physical traits that really drew me in. Once I'm hooked in that way, I start to find him very extremely attractive.

[fortyninethousand322]

I guess the problem has a lot to do with online dating. Since it's so impersonal you can categorize and exclude certain people since you don't know them. You can pick out things you don't like about a stranger where if it's someone you know those things are just "quirks" I guess.

 

The other thing of course is that I just can't seem to get anyone I'm interested in to be interested in me (online or offline). That gets pretty frustrating after a while. And I'm starting to wonder why exactly that is. Other than Plumprincess's idea that it was due to my pictures.

[fortyninethousand322]

You're getting attention. I do detect a hint of smugness in your posts - perhaps not intentionally. At the end of the day, dating online does tend to be a crap chute. You get a lot of attention from folks you're not particularly interested in and a few from folks you are (generally, anyway). Take it for what it is - appreciate that someone out there saw you as attractive and took the time to message you.

 

People can't read your mind and know what you find attractive or not, just the same as you can't read another woman's mind if you send her a message. I've seen guys with six packs who really love fat women. I've seen idiots who have a thing for very educated women.

 

As for why you're not able to find women in your league, so to speak - take a double look at your profile. Are you representing yourself honestly, completely?

 

I see a lot of common mistakes on men's profiles. They play up how much money they make and the awesome car they have...and that's about it. I've also seen profiles full of guys showing off their abs. Sure, that's attractive. But after fapping to it, I'm probably just going to move on - too showy for me.

 

Then there are the types who have thousands of comments spread through their profile like, "Don't message me if...I won't respond if...I don't like..." Keeping that to a minimum is helpful. There are fewer things less attractive than a guy who comes off as too picky and too critical from the get-go. No matter how great a prospect he might be otherwise, I wouldn't have the patience for someone who seems rejection-eager from the start.

 

I do think it's good that you're just ignoring the messages you get from women you're not interested in - the meaning is implicit. Nothing stings more than getting a message back from a guy who chooses to pick your profile apart, stating all the things he doesn't like about you. It's best just to let it go. For guys who DO reply to every message, for better or worse, prepare for some 'reviews' of your profile to get passed around. It's not uncommon for friends to all be on the same site. If you're a jerk to one, that can get passed around.

 

Well I hope I'm not coming off as smug. But if I am I assure you it's not intentional.

 

I used to think people should respond to every message that wasn't a cut and paste message or whatever. I've changed my mind on that. I think if you really aren't interested then just don't respond. I've been on the receiving end of marathon email sessions where at the end the girl isn't interested. I'd rather skip the wasted time and effort.

 

I certainly will take a second look at my profile. I've tried to make it so it conveys what I'm interested in and who I am as a person. I also want to get some better pictures on there (mine aren't horrible though) I just can't seem to get any that I'm satisfied with.

[jobaba]

Yeah I guess what really set this off for me was when I logged into a dating site today. It said I had one new message in my inbox which I was hoping was from one of the 3 women I messaged yesterday. Instead it was from a woman who was not physically attractive to me, had nothing in common with me and had 2 children.

 

I don't know, I hope I'm not overly shallow or picky but being a somewhat intellectual, in shape young guy I tend to be attracted to that type of woman. The idea that maybe I'm reaching too far in hoping to find someone like that is a little disheartening.

 

You might be a little young and immature to date a woman with children.

 

It'd be OK for me, but I'm older.