Update on my Sexless Marriage

[Zonk]

Hey various forum people. I posted here about a month ago, whilst incredibly drunk, then promptly went to bed. While looking through my Gmail account, I saw the registration email for this forum, remembered what I had done and started reading through the replies. Insane work schedules pretty effectively prevented me from posting anything until now.

 

Old thread:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/317276-i-hate-my-sexless-marriage

 

 

I feel like I should address some of the general themes I saw in the replies. I won't address individual replies, since the thread is so old now.

 

"You should talk to her!"

 

I do talk to her, frequently. Whenever I express how I feel, or share any portion of my side of what is going on, she either gets really angry, or really depressed. Both ways, she usually ends the conversation by threatening suicide. I don't think she'll ever do it, I just think it is her method of choice for shutting down a conversation she doesn't like.

 

"You should get therapy!"

 

Tried and failed. Before I was working the super crazy 80-100 hour weeks, we started seeing a therapist. We had 2-3 meetings where we were alone. We were about to see the therapist as a couple, but my wife decided she never wanted to see that therapist again.

 

"You should be doing more to support her!"

 

This is the most I can conceivably do to support anyone. I work 80 hour weeks, pick up 100% of the tab financially and purchase the absolute maximum amount of health insurance someone my age can have and it covers her too. Short of taking time off of work to knock her out and drag her by the hair to a doctor for a laparoscopy, there is nothing left.

 

"You should do non-intercourse sexual things!"

 

I would love that. She wouldn't thought. Basically any time she's turned on she tells me, she's in pain. Our sex life kind of works in this sort of cycle. We do nothing, I get frustrated, I get depressed, she picks up on in and we do something (usually a handjob, not sure if that info matters). The act itself if basically just mechanical. There is no real passion or feeling behind it. I calm down for a while and hope that we're moving towards doing things again. Then we do nothing and the cycle repeats. Each repetition of the cycle takes about three months.

 

"Is she faking endometriosis? Have you spoken with her doctor?"

 

I've never spoken with him, but I don't think she is faking. She told me that he told her that she has "the worst case of endometriosis in the world" and that he wants to do a laparoscopy. She's terrified of surgery and wants a second opinion.

 

 

About two weeks ago, we had sex for the first time in probably 14 months. She was on top and it was completely mechanical and passionless, but it was better than nothing. I at least felt for a while like she was trying to take steps to fix things. I asked her if it hurt later, and she kept giving me answers which were not straight forward, like "It's okay." and "not as much as I thought it would".

 

After that, things were pretty awful. About four days ago, we were in spare bedroom, which we use as a game room. I started kissing her, and she kissed back. I started to lift up her shirt and she pushed me away suddenly and loudly asserted "NO!" in my face, like I was some sort of creepy, drunk frat boy at a college party. I immediately felt like pointing to the door and screaming "GET THE **** OUT OF MY APARTMENT", but I didn't. Instead I just walked to the bedroom, switched off the light and went to sleep.

 

Yesterday, I left work at lunch time, which for me, is a pretty rare treat, and picked her up to go get some lunch. We decided to get some steaks. We ordered our food and while we were waiting for it to come, she started complaining about something. After a short while, I realized my own thoughts were louder than her voice. I was thinking "You incredible bitch. I take time out of my day to do something nice for you. I take you to get a $20 steak, just because, and you're going to rant at me about something trivial the whole time? If you were just a girlfriend, rather than my wife, this would be the last date I ever took you on. I would pay for the food, take you home and then never call again and never ****ing look back."

 

 

The way I see it, I have four options.

 

#1. Get a divorce, lose half of everything I own and possibly end up paying an alimony fine, for the crime of getting married to someone who warped into someone else after the first bite of wedding cake.

 

#2. Find a mistress and **** her until she can't walk straight.

 

#3. Continue to be unhappy. Try to make the best out of a bad situation.

 

#4. Get really drunk and wrap my car around a tree.

[Radu]

Possible causes :

1 - she is asexual (read up on it ... she may use this condition as an excuse)

2 - she is insanely low sex drive

3 - she doesn't love you, but likes that you take care of her

4 - she has a guy on the side

5 - she just wanted marriage with someone and to be taken care off (similar to 3)

6 - she has the condition

 

The bottomline is that she doesn't have sex with you, and she has no respect for you. You noticed that too when you took her out during the day.

 

What is your job btw ?

 

You are 22, you have your whole life in front of you, **** the divorce, **** the alimony.

Get a detective to follow her if you can, and if it finds nothing open divorce proceedings.

 

She is already checked out of your marriage because she doesn't respect you.

In the end, does it really matter if she has a condition or not ?

 

On a personal level, i suspect 3 and 4.

One of my close friends was involved with a woman for 1yr who all of the sudden could not have sex anymore. Turns out her 2nd lover was banging her and feeling that need while my fool of a friend took care of her.

 

PS: Don't get a mistress, you would be sinking to her level (no respect).

Edited April 14, 2012 by Radu

[Zonk]

What is your job btw ?

 

I work in IT. That's all I'm willing to say in this forum right now.

[Radu]

Just trying to figure out how much you make.

 

What is your gf's background (country/society she was raised in) ?

[Zonk]

What is your gf's background (country/society she was raised in) ?

 

Grew up in the middle of rural nowhere. Only other houses on her street belonged to her grandparents and her uncle, respectively. Her parents divorced when she was 2.

 

Her mom subjected her to fundamentalist Christian homeschooling and was an abusive alcoholic. When she was 18, she started going to a public high school, as a junior, so that she could qualify for some state scholarships for poor people. We met because I was a junior and we had classes in common, and started dating.

 

She had a pretty dramatic moveout to get away from her mom which ended up with her living with me, and her family disowning her. She frequently gets upset that homeschooling left her behind everyone else and that she's 2 years older than everyone she goes to school with. I think she kind of resents me, because even though I am younger than her, I am done with college and have a nice paying job.

 

I don't really understand that sort of reasoning though. It seems like we should be playing for the same team.

[xxoo]

#1. Get a divorce, lose half of everything I own and possibly end up paying an alimony fine, for the crime of getting married to someone who warped into someone else after the first bite of wedding cake.

 

You are 22, and have no kids. How much could you possibly lose? If she gets awarded alimony, it won't be forever.

 

Even if you've managed to get rich at age 22, and stand to lose half, you will quickly get rich again.

 

Divorce now, sooner than later. If you are concerned about her mental health, contact her family or friends and forewarn them that the papers will be served, and she will need someone to step in and check on her.

[Radu]

Grew up in the middle of rural nowhere. Only other houses on her street belonged to her grandparents and her uncle, respectively. Her parents divorced when she was 2.

 

Her mom subjected her to fundamentalist Christian homeschooling and was an abusive alcoholic. When she was 18, she started going to a public high school, as a junior, so that she could qualify for some state scholarships for poor people. We met because I was a junior and we had classes in common, and started dating.

 

She had a pretty dramatic moveout to get away from her mom which ended up with her living with me, and her family disowning her. She frequently gets upset that homeschooling left her behind everyone else and that she's 2 years older than everyone she goes to school with. I think she kind of resents me, because even though I am younger than her, I am done with college and have a nice paying job.

 

I don't really understand that sort of reasoning though. It seems like we should be playing for the same team.

 

You pretty much just described a 'white knight' situation.

I think it is very possible that she is jealous of you.

Was her mom in the quiverfull movement ?

 

One possibility that now comes to mind is that she might be faking this condition but without realising this. She might just stop herself (mentally) from enjoying, and penetration could be painfull for her this way.

 

Do you see how damaged this woman is ?

 

If you decide to D, do not have sex with this woman without condoms after she finds out about it.

I mean it ... she seems to do just the bare minimum to keep you around, and this is an option to try to keep you around. Do you want your children raised by this woman ?

Always condoms from then on, she will offer you sex when she sees the D papers.

Also, hide them well, and check them for puncture marks.

[oldshirt]

 

 

I started to lift up her shirt and she pushed me away suddenly and loudly asserted "NO!" in my face, like I was some sort of creepy, drunk frat boy at a college party. I immediately felt like pointing to the door and screaming "GET THE **** OUT OF MY APARTMENT", but I didn't. .

 

Yesterday, I left work at lunch time, which for me, is a pretty rare treat, and picked her up to go get some lunch. After a short while, I realized my own thoughts were louder than her voice. I was thinking "You incredible bitch. I take time out of my day to do something nice for you. I take you to get a $20 steak, just because, and you're going to rant at me about something trivial the whole time? If you were just a girlfriend, rather than my wife, this would be the last date I ever took you on. I would pay for the food, take you home and then never call again and never ****ing look back."

 

 

 

It's time to go. Neither of you is happy or healthy in this arraingment (i didn't call it a marraige for a reason) It's simply not working for either of you. She is staying because she has no other options and doesn't want to leave her gravy train.

 

It will only get worse and you will only become more frustrated and depressed.

 

Of the options that you listed, divorce is the only healthy option that will result in being healthy and happy at some point.

 

You have tried to communicate, you have tried couseling, you have tried to just gut it out and none has worked. There is no shame or failure in this. Your only shame and failure is if you continue to stay for no valid reason now that you know it is a lost cause.

 

Divorce will cause some short term pain, saddness, loss and fear of the unknown that lays ahead but you are suffering greater pain, saddness, loss now and you ALREADY KNOW what lays ahead for you if you stay and that is an increasing amount of pain, saddness, frustration and depression.

 

Divorcing and salvaging the rest of your life is the least painfull, least destructive and least dysfunctional alternative out there for the both of you.

[oldshirt]

If you decide to D, do not have sex with this woman without condoms after she finds out about it.

I mean it ... she seems to do just the bare minimum to keep you around, and this is an option to try to keep you around. Do you want your children raised by this woman ?

Always condoms from then on, she will offer you sex when she sees the D papers.

Also, hide them well, and check them for puncture marks.

 

I agree with this. She will use sex to try to get you stay as this is what she knows you are most disappointed about and knows it is your weak underbelly.

 

My reccomendation though is not to give her any warning or heads up at all. get all your ducks in a row (set up your own bank accounts, credit cards, get a new place to live etc etc) and move out and get away from her the same day she's handed the papers.

 

You've already done the talking, whining, begging, bartering, negotiating blah blah blah. There is nothing left to talk about or discuss other than the legal proceedings which should be done through the attorneys so just leave and don't talk to her except throgh the attorneys.

 

Don't give her the chance to get knocked up. You can't knock her up when you are physically separated from her and have no contact with her at all.

[KathyM]

Sounds to me like you might be dealing with a woman with Borderline Personality Disorder. You said she threatens suicide, she has volitile emotions, and comes from an abusive family. Here are the symptoms of Borderline Personality Disorder:

 

1. Makes threats or gestures of suicide.

 

2. Unstable mood.

 

3. Inappropriate intense anger or difficulty controlling anger.

 

4. Stress related paranoid ideation or sever dissociative symptoms.

 

5. Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment.

 

6. Identity disturbance, unstable self-image or sense of self.

 

7. Unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by switching frequently between loving/admiring you and hating/despising you.

 

8. Impulsivity.

 

9. Chronic feelings of emptiness.

 

If your wife has five or more of these symptoms, she is probably dealing with Borderline Personality Disorder. I would suggest you get her some therapy, and insist on it. She may also be dealing with a sexual dysfunction, which therapy could also help with. She doesn't realize she needs help. You need to be the stronger person and make the appointment and go with her to therapy until she feels comfortable enough to go alone. It's not going to get better on its own, and, as her husband, you need to be the one to support her and see that she gets the help that she needs.

 

The fact that she came from an abusive family is probably what triggered this personality disorder. It's caused from a combination of genetics and an abusive or neglecting childhood.

[Radu]

Didn't think of this one KathyM, but i'd like to add some stuff to it :

1 - NPD is treatable but to some small degree because the patient needs to work on this and want it ... and most NPD's don't want this (they are fine in their heads).

2 - success rate of therapy for this is at around 5%.

3 - NPD ppl are very good at appearing the victims to their Counselors and will refuse a counselor that will NOT play ball with them.

4 - even a Counselor that is good, may choose to not say anything bad and act with gloves with them because NPD's are notorious for getting out of counseling if they feel it doesn't go their way (they think it's at least good they are talking).

5 - some NPD's are very good at putting up a front with other ppl. They will appear the picture of normality to all but those very close to them. Not all do this though.

6 - NPD's love to be in control, when they start to lose control they will panic. Some women who were suspected NPD's even killed their kids and staged a sympathysuicide attempt (jumping out of 1st floor window), to 'win' when they felt the court might side with the father.

7 - NPD's can't think in terms of win-win situations. They can only see how much they will potentially win if it's a win-lose (win for them) situation.

8 - deals with NPD's are worthless, they will always walk all over them if it suits their interests.

9 - some NPD's view relationships as assets (narcissists for instance). That can extend even to the relationship with their children.

 

There are some good sites with NPD information out there that addresses both men and women, google for them.

 

PS: In the US, NPD is classified as a mental illness so if a counselor/phychiatrist tells the court she has it, you will appear as the bad guy ... it may impact the money you lose to this woman.

Consult a lawyer quickly.

And a shrink ... and a couselor. For the last 2 you might want to shop around a bit because not all of them are a perfect fit, you might end up with raging feminist who does more damage than good to you.

[The Blue Knight]

The way I see it, I have four options.

 

#1. Get a divorce, lose half of everything I own and possibly end up paying an alimony fine, for the crime of getting married to someone who warped into someone else after the first bite of wedding cake.

 

#2. Find a mistress and **** her until she can't walk straight.

 

#3. Continue to be unhappy. Try to make the best out of a bad situation.

 

#4. Get really drunk and wrap my car around a tree.

I can't comment on her medical condition because I'm not qualified. I was taken however by her complaining attitude when you take her out for a nice lunch. She just strikes me as someone who sees the negatives in everything. Tell me if I'm wrong because I'm kind of making that assertion on limited information.

 

Negative people (especially spouses) can be a real burden. My ex-wife was like that. She could find the negative in just about everything if she really wanted too.

 

Of your selections the clearest one is #1. I'm VERY pro-marriage but there there are times when cutting your losses and moving on is a better solution.

[standtall]

What can she take half of at 22? Alimony will be for a year or so...no court is going to let you a 20 something year old retire on their ex-husband. I say divorce her and chalk it up as a big mistake. If you think that you're getting no sex now, then wait until after 20 yrs of marriage with a couple of kids...you're gonna be a monk. Cut your losses.

[KathyM]

Didn't think of this one KathyM, but i'd like to add some stuff to it :

1 - NPD is treatable but to some small degree because the patient needs to work on this and want it ... and most NPD's don't want this (they are fine in their heads).

2 - success rate of therapy for this is at around 5%.

3 - NPD ppl are very good at appearing the victims to their Counselors and will refuse a counselor that will NOT play ball with them.

4 - even a Counselor that is good, may choose to not say anything bad and act with gloves with them because NPD's are notorious for getting out of counseling if they feel it doesn't go their way (they think it's at least good they are talking).

5 - some NPD's are very good at putting up a front with other ppl. They will appear the picture of normality to all but those very close to them. Not all do this though.

6 - NPD's love to be in control, when they start to lose control they will panic. Some women who were suspected NPD's even killed their kids and staged a sympathysuicide attempt (jumping out of 1st floor window), to 'win' when they felt the court might side with the father.

7 - NPD's can't think in terms of win-win situations. They can only see how much they will potentially win if it's a win-lose (win for them) situation.

8 - deals with NPD's are worthless, they will always walk all over them if it suits their interests.

9 - some NPD's view relationships as assets (narcissists for instance). That can extend even to the relationship with their children.

 

There are some good sites with NPD information out there that addresses both men and women, google for them.

 

PS: In the US, NPD is classified as a mental illness so if a counselor/phychiatrist tells the court she has it, you will appear as the bad guy ... it may impact the money you lose to this woman.

Consult a lawyer quickly.

And a shrink ... and a couselor. For the last 2 you might want to shop around a bit because not all of them are a perfect fit, you might end up with raging feminist who does more damage than good to you.

You're talking about NPD--Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I'm talking about Borderline Personality Disorder. Two entirely different illnesses. Borderline is characterized by suicidal threats or attempts, unstable moods, unstable self concept, fear of abandonment, etc., and can develop as a result of an abusive childhood. Narcissistic Personality Disorder is characterized by lack of empathy for others, grandiose self concept, excessive need for admiration, etc.

[Mme. Chaucer]

We can't diagnose the wife with a personality disorder based upon her angry, sexually frustrated husband's description of her.

 

Anyway, since she can't and / or won't take care of the physical problem that he knows she has, and resentments and evidently dislike (I'm sensing zero "love") are the defining aspects of this relationship, as it's been presented to us, I really think they need to divorce.

[KathyM]

We can't diagnose the wife with a personality disorder based upon her angry, sexually frustrated husband's description of her.

 

Anyway, since she can't and / or won't take care of the physical problem that he knows she has, and resentments and evidently dislike (I'm sensing zero "love") are the defining aspects of this relationship, as it's been presented to us, I really think they need to divorce.

True that we are only getting the husband's side of the story, but since he mentioned suicide threats and unstable emotions, the possibility is there that she is suffering from a personality disorder, so I thought I would throw it out there that it is something he may want to look into--getting help for his wife. I don't believe in abandoning a spouse just because they are suffering from an illness, be it physical or mental, unless it involves infidelity. Some mental disorders can be helped through therapy and medication, and I think, as her husband, he owes it to his wife to see that she gets the help that she needs.

[Radu]

Thanks for the clarification in your first post on this page.

 

True that we are only getting the husband's side of the story, but since he mentioned suicide threats and unstable emotions, the possibility is there that she is suffering from a personality disorder, so I thought I would throw it out there that it is something he may want to look into--getting help for his wife. I don't believe in abandoning a spouse just because they are suffering from an illness, be it physical or mental, unless it involves infidelity. Some mental disorders can be helped through therapy and medication, and I think, as her husband, he owes it to his wife to see that she gets the help that she needs.

 

How can you help someone who doesn't want to be helped ?

I'm not saying it is the case here (though it might seem that way), but how can you do this ?

[StoneCold]

How can you help someone who doesn't want to be helped ?

I'm not saying it is the case here (though it might seem that way), but how can you do this ?

 

You can't.....