Pierre Posted April 15, 2012 Posted April 15, 2012 I prefer someone who has a good career. That said, living within your means and being able to support oneself is more important to me than how much money one makes. It is easy to be irresponsible with money even when one makes large sums. In this particular case, I don't think that money will be an issue. This guy likely makes more than most women he dates. Growing up in an upper middle class family, the question becomes whether you fit into his world rather than how much you make. Having dated women who grew up in poorer families than I did, I know there is a bit of a culture shock when dating people that grew up in different SES levels. Some of it good (many of them are less status driven and materialistic than upper middle class women) and some of it bad (usually more family and friends judgemental about things like non-traditional upbringing, substance abuse issues in family or your past, etc in a partner). In the end, whether any of that matters is completely dependent on the man. I come from a solid white collar background and married a woman from a solid blue collar background. Initially everything was great because she was simple, non-materialistic, and a hard worker. So there was never an issue of money with her. She was often ashamed to received expensive gifts from my part and always played down our socio-economic level. She was always humble and thrifty with money even though I encouraged her to spend money. I also enjoyed her non-stuffy down to earth family and overlooked some bad things. I rationalized that my wife would escape the bad culture of her family of origin (FOO). However, over the years the behaviors would surface and we had some disagreements. Then she copied the behavior every single female in her family had done. She was unfaithful and it was my bad because all women in her family had been unfaithful. So it is not the money, but the quality of people in the FOO.
RedRobin Posted April 15, 2012 Posted April 15, 2012 Sorry, but can't help but chime in on the FOO. My family is solidly 'middle class', my ex's family is old money. When we were dating, I felt reassured that he would not be put off by my educational goals since his grandmother (!!) was one of the first to receive a Master's from Boston College back in the day. Problems arose because *I* had to work for everything I achieved. I put myself through college. He had a free ride from his parents. At the end of the day, when things got tough, he just was used to everything being easy for him. He didn't have what it took to make and keep a life commitment. So, Ruby, being a hardworking girl, I'd suggest that one of your tasks might be to figure out how he got his money. It makes a big difference to me. I'll take a 'poor' man with a heart of gold and a solid work ethic over an accomplished smooth talker and cynical ladder climber anyday. Also, I would not be ashamed of your background. One of my favorite sayings is "It's not what you are born with. It is what you do with it that counts." From the little I've read about you, it seems like you are hard working and have gotten what you have from an honest day's work. There is nothing to be ashamed about.
spookie Posted April 15, 2012 Posted April 15, 2012 I don't want to be cynical, but it would be easy for this dude to play you, Ruby. Be careful.
Author Ruby Slippers Posted April 15, 2012 Author Posted April 15, 2012 So it is not the money, but the quality of people in the FOO. Well, in my case, the only bad apple is my dark-hearted dad. I finally figured out that he's been so hypercritical and unloving toward me and the rest of his family because of his own bad feelings toward himself. It's nothing personal. I get that now intellectually. Now I'm working on getting it emotionally. Does my poor relationship with my dad color my relationships with men? Absolutely, as it colors everything I do to some extent. But I do the best I can. If that's not good enough for this guy, there's not much I can do about it. Like I said, I want us both to find a great match for us. I have no agenda other than health and happiness for us both. If we can romance our way there together, great. If we help each other get there in a different, more limited capacity, that's great, too. If the energy is right, you can't fight it.
Author Ruby Slippers Posted April 15, 2012 Author Posted April 15, 2012 I don't want to be cynical, but it would be easy for this dude to play you, Ruby. Be careful. How? I'm definitely a naive dater, so I can use the advice! In the past, I've mostly gotten into relationships with guys I knew for a while and was comfortable with. So this is new territory.
Author Ruby Slippers Posted April 15, 2012 Author Posted April 15, 2012 Problems arose because *I* had to work for everything I achieved. I put myself through college. He had a free ride from his parents. At the end of the day, when things got tough, he just was used to everything being easy for him. He didn't have what it took to make and keep a life commitment. Yes, this has come up for me in relationships in the past, too. I guess you could say it's a pattern. Many of the guys who've pursued me come from well-to-do backgrounds, but have certain qualities that come along with that which are problematic - for example, they tend to take things for granted, not really appreciate what they've got. Because I worked my butt off for everything I have, I value it and appreciate it. So, Ruby, being a hardworking girl, I'd suggest that one of your tasks might be to figure out how he got his money. Well, I know he started his company - but maybe he got the seed money from his family. He also told me he manages the investment accounts of everyone in his family. He tries to involve them, but they just say, "I don't care about the details. Just make us some money." Lucky for him, I love talking about and listening to the nerdy intricacies of this stuff. Also, I would not be ashamed of your background. One of my favorite sayings is "It's not what you are born with. It is what you do with it that counts." From the little I've read about you, it seems like you are hard working and have gotten what you have from an honest day's work. There is nothing to be ashamed about. Awww, thanks, babe. I try to hold my head high, but pretty much everyone I'm meeting these days is RICH. I'm the only one who's not. Most of them are very kind, but there is some ego and attitude from a few. It totally throws me back to school, where I was the poor kid on the advanced track, the only poor kid in a room with all these spoiled rich kids. I actually opted out of an advanced placement course one year just to get away from those *******s. And I made a lot more friends in the non-AP class.
RedRobin Posted April 15, 2012 Posted April 15, 2012 Yes, this has come up for me in relationships in the past, too. I guess you could say it's a pattern. Many of the guys who've pursued me come from well-to-do backgrounds, but have certain qualities that come along with that which are problematic - for example, they tend to take things for granted, not really appreciate what they've got. Because I worked my butt off for everything I have, I value it and appreciate it. Well, I know he started his company - but maybe he got the seed money from his family. He also told me he manages the investment accounts of everyone in his family. He tries to involve them, but they just say, "I don't care about the details. Just make us some money." Lucky for him, I love talking about and listening to the nerdy intricacies of this stuff. Awww, thanks, babe. I try to hold my head high, but pretty much everyone I'm meeting these days is RICH. I'm the only one who's not. Most of them are very kind, but there is some ego and attitude from a few. It totally throws me back to school, where I was the poor kid on the advanced track, the only poor kid in a room with all these spoiled rich kids. I actually opted out of an advanced placement course one year just to get away from those *******s. And I made a lot more friends in the non-AP class. I feel your pain! I went to 'public' schools and am surrounded by 'private' school weenies these days Whenever they start getting a bit full of themselves, I like to remind them that I got the same job, but at a fraction of the cost ;p It all goes back to having a sense of inherent self-worth. Holding your head high no matter what life dishes out.... yep! Looks like you have a good head on your shoulders. You sound like an entrepreneur! "You know you are an entrepreneur when every 'no' sounds like a 'yes'" I heard that on the BBC not long ago 1
Author Ruby Slippers Posted April 15, 2012 Author Posted April 15, 2012 "You know you are an entrepreneur when every 'no' sounds like a 'yes'" I heard that on the BBC not long ago Story of my life. You rule
spookie Posted April 15, 2012 Posted April 15, 2012 How? I'm definitely a naive dater, so I can use the advice! In the past, I've mostly gotten into relationships with guys I knew for a while and was comfortable with. So this is new territory. I guess the reason I am concerned, is that you seem to be very impressed by his money/success. I am not saying you are gold-digging here, or that it is the primary attraction, but I feel like if you are impressed by these things so early on in the game, it's because he's marketing himself that way. And it's probably a strategy he's used before, that would pay off very easily, with OLD. That's why I'm concerned he might be a player. But he sounds hot, so if there is a chance he is genuine and truly looking for the same things you are, I'm happy for you! BTW, I love reading your posts, with the local references.
Author Ruby Slippers Posted April 15, 2012 Author Posted April 15, 2012 I guess the reason I am concerned, is that you seem to be very impressed by his money/success. I'm actually daunted by it. I felt kinda weird bringing home this guy dressed in such nice clothes and trimmings to my quite dressed-down house. I'm impressed that he's so intelligent, hard-working, and seems to have a good heart. I am not saying you are gold-digging here, or that it is the primary attraction, but I feel like if you are impressed by these things so early on in the game, it's because he's marketing himself that way. And it's probably a strategy he's used before, that would pay off very easily, with OLD. That's why I'm concerned he might be a player. I guess he could be. But I don't see how I would get "played" here. He took me on a fabulous date, gave me a great massage and rocked my bod all night, and took me out for a lovely brunch with awesome conversation. What did I lose? Even if I never see him again, I had a great time and will always remember it fondly. But he sounds hot, so if there is a chance he is genuine and truly looking for the same things you are, I'm happy for you! I don't even know if I think he's a good match for ME yet. And yeah, I do feel some internal pressure - like, "maybe I should snag such a good catch even if we're not the best match". That's the survival strategy. But I feel like I'd rather die than just be with someone because it's convenient. I want to make sure I like him for him, too. BTW, I love reading your posts, with the local references. ha thanks. Are you not in Arizona, then?
spookie Posted April 15, 2012 Posted April 15, 2012 I'm actually daunted by it. I felt kinda weird bringing home this guy dressed in such nice clothes and trimmings to my quite dressed-down house. I'm impressed that he's so intelligent, hard-working, and seems to have a good heart. I guess he could be. But I don't see how I would get "played" here. He took me on a fabulous date, gave me a great massage and rocked my bod all night, and took me out for a lovely brunch with awesome conversation. What did I lose? Even if I never see him again, I had a great time and will always remember it fondly. I don't even know if I think he's a good match for ME yet. And yeah, I do feel some internal pressure - like, "maybe I should snag such a good catch even if we're not the best match". That's the survival strategy. But I feel like I'd rather die than just be with someone because it's convenient. I want to make sure I like him for him, too. If that is truly your attitude, that's great. It will be hard for you to get used. But I think a lot of women are easily charmed by men like this, believing the attention signifies genuine interest in something more. While the men just see OLD as a source for easy dates/ sex. As long as you would not be hurt to find out he's taking women out every night of the week, carry on. ha thanks. Are you not in Arizona, then? Naw.
Author Ruby Slippers Posted April 15, 2012 Author Posted April 15, 2012 If that is truly your attitude, that's great. It will be hard for you to get used. But I think a lot of women are easily charmed by men like this, believing the attention signifies genuine interest in something more. While the men just see OLD as a source for easy dates/ sex. As long as you would not be hurt to find out he's taking women out every night of the week, carry on. Well, when he seemed a little nervous about the first date, I said that for me, it was just about having fun and seeing if we click, no expectations beyond that. And I really meant that. At this point, if he's not interested, my feelings won't be hurt. We have a lot in common, but there are enough differences that I would understand if he wasn't. If he asks me out again, I'll say yes. But if he's not interested, or he's on to the next woman for this week, that's his business. If I don't hear from him, I'll move along to the next fella, too. 1
Pierre Posted April 16, 2012 Posted April 16, 2012 but I feel like if you are impressed by these things so early on in the game, it's because he's marketing himself that way. And it's probably a strategy he's used before, that would pay off very easily, with OLD. That's why I'm concerned he might be a player. This is a very good point. Highly successful people are generally modest about the achievements. Very good observation. It makes me suspect this guy knows some women fall for that. However, I can tell you that once I became single and with a successful career dating was rather simple.
Author Ruby Slippers Posted April 16, 2012 Author Posted April 16, 2012 This is a very good point. Highly successful people are generally modest about the achievements. Very good observation. It makes me suspect this guy knows some women fall for that. However, I can tell you that once I became single and with a successful career dating was rather simple. I've been talking to this guy online and then on the phone for the better part of 3 months, and we've always had a great intellectual connection. Yeah, I think he's sexy and all, but the intelligent conversation is what really stuck with both of us, I think. It is so hard for me to find people I can talk to about all this big philosophical stuff I'm fascinated by, like the world's huge problems and how I can be a small part of solving them. He's even totally into conspiracy theories like me, and says it sucks that women just treat him like he's crazy when he talks about this stuff. I know exactly how he feels, because my friends humor me and my establishment-bashing rants, but they possibly think I'm a little kooky because of it. haha He asked me out a long time ago, but I wasn't ready at the time and told him so. Once I got ready, I contacted him about going on a date the upcoming Saturday, and he was available and excited. In the beginning when we were talking about our work, he said something understated like: "I work in health care," so I don't think he was trying to be flashy at all. It didn't become clear till we were planning the date that he's at a higher income level - just by the place he invited me to go and things like that. I had clues before (like his nice house in the background of pictures of him), but I wasn't thinking about it then because it wasn't quite real yet.
spookie Posted April 16, 2012 Posted April 16, 2012 I've been talking to this guy online and then on the phone for the better part of 3 months, and we've always had a great intellectual connection. Yeah, I think he's sexy and all, but the intelligent conversation is what really stuck with both of us, I think. It is so hard for me to find people I can talk to about all this big philosophical stuff I'm fascinated by, like the world's huge problems and how I can be a small part of solving them. He's even totally into conspiracy theories like me, and says it sucks that women just treat him like he's crazy when he talks about this stuff. I know exactly how he feels, because my friends humor me and my establishment-bashing rants, but they possibly think I'm a little kooky because of it. haha He asked me out a long time ago, but I wasn't ready at the time and told him so. Once I got ready, I contacted him about going on a date the upcoming Saturday, and he was available and excited. In the beginning when we were talking about our work, he said something understated like: "I work in health care," so I don't think he was trying to be flashy at all. It didn't become clear till we were planning the date that he's at a higher income level - just by the place he invited me to go and things like that. I had clues before (like his nice house in the background of pictures of him), but I wasn't thinking about it then because it wasn't quite real yet. With the additional info, I would say your hot first date was pretty promising. :bunny: 1
Author Ruby Slippers Posted April 17, 2012 Author Posted April 17, 2012 Well, he called tonight (the day after), we talked for 2 hours, and he asked me out again. He also said it was "the perfect date", it flew by, and felt like our 4th or 5th one. I totally agree. Things are looking good
thatone Posted April 17, 2012 Posted April 17, 2012 So, I have a date this weekend with a guy who seems to be doing very well for himself. He's sent me pictures of himself at home, and his place is way nicer than mine; he drives a nice car; has a great job; etc. He also seems to come from a good, solid family, whereas I keep my distance from mine, as there's some craziness and substance issues running through it. I think he likes me because there's good attraction, I'm all creative and imaginative (whereas he's more conventional and grounded), and I'm fun and have an uplifting effect on him. We also have a lot in common, and he tells me I'm much more on his intellectual level than the women he usually dates, who are often good-looking but dumb. I guess I'm feeling a little intimidated about the disparity in income/lifestyle, and concerned he might be judgmental about it. My small business is doing well and I'm stepping things up, but I'm still pretty frugal. I'm going to move to a nicer place when my lease is up in September, but until then, I have a modest place to live that's a bit rough around the edges. His place looks way nicer than mine. He has a house with "grown-up" furniture and styling, etc. I'm just wondering what the men think about dating a woman who makes less money than you. Turn off? Don't care? so you're my gf and i'm him....literally. my gf sells insurance at a small agency, and has a teen daughter to boot. i make 6 to 7 times what she does, i own some commercial real estate that took off in value a few years back. your guy is telling you EXACTLY what i tell her. yeah, i can flash money at hot waitresses and broke coeds. not a problem. the catch is they're pretty shallow. as soon as you get tired of looking at them you're damn tired of being around them. she also has issues with her family so just doesn't associate with the ones that cause trouble, her independence from them i see as a positive. if she couldn't cut ties with them it would be a problem, but she has done so well before we met. do i care? no, as long as we get along i don't care about the money. there are of course class judgements, i can't date a girl with visible tattoos, or one that only owns tshirts and jeans. sorry, some places i go ya gotta look nice, both men and women. but outside of that it's a non issue. personally, i don't consider myself a lonely person, but having money can absolutely make you lonely-er, if that makes sense. a lot of friends who don't have the money i have can't do the things i do. i can travel on a whim, go to whatever events i want to go to, etc. my friends who have to work long hours just can't afford to do a lot of that stuff or don't have time, so having a girl with similar interests and intellect is a bigger deal to me than it might be for other guys. of course that all might not apply to this guy, but if it does i would say don't worry about it. 1
Author Ruby Slippers Posted April 17, 2012 Author Posted April 17, 2012 so you're my gf and i'm him....literally. Nice! Thanks for your post! Yeah, at this point, we seem to have very strong compatibility. The reason I'm so fascinated with his entrepreneurial and investment prowess is that I'm working very hard to kick up my small business, and I need to know this stuff - and as a creative person, the business side of things is not my strong suit. Not only is he really smart about these things, he loves talking about them in gory detail and answering all my questions. We cover so much ground in our conversation - it's so refreshing. We've discussed technology, science, medicine, health, fitness, philanthropy, politics, sports, philosophy, current events, pop culture, celebrity deification, our wild dreams and schemes - and it's all been an effortless pleasure. We've both already started throwing out future possibilities for fun things we can do together, even big crazy vacations where we can explore some of our creative money-making ideas at the same time. He said he sees some excellent brainstorming sessions in our future - preferably while naked. Yes, the sex is a very fun element that's easy to talk about, but even though we are both obviously very lusty, it's just one strong point of so many. I can't remember the last time I was this excited about the possibilities with a man. I'm gonna keep my feet on the ground, but this is a great feeling that I'm gonna enjoy.
thatone Posted April 17, 2012 Posted April 17, 2012 all that sounds like the two of us. we still spend hours on the phone every day when we're not together and the conversation covers all sorts of topics. it's hard to find such a person, sounds like you're off on the right foot with this guy to me. 1
musemaj11 Posted April 17, 2012 Posted April 17, 2012 Men arent women. Men care much less about how much money you have.
bikinibeach Posted April 18, 2012 Posted April 18, 2012 I can tell you that once I became single and with a successful career dating was rather simple. THIS is what concerns me in your scenario. This guy likely thinks he's got it made... and it sounds like on paper, he has, but I find THE MOST IMPORTANT FEATURE OF A MAN PERIOD is his emotional maturity. This will only show itself in time.. or if an unexpected surprise or two show up early on. My advice is to keep doing what you're doing- sounds like you're having fun! But don't be TOO available. He needs to see that your dating market value is AT LEAST equal to his! 1
Author Ruby Slippers Posted April 18, 2012 Author Posted April 18, 2012 Hmm, well, I already hinted to him that I don't multi-date, as did he - but this was not explicitly stated. He's made comments to suggest he perceives my dating market value as high. But that's good to keep in mind. What he has communicated to me is that he's solid in his own life, but has had a hard time finding a partner on his level and with his degree of integrity in relationships. For example, he told me his last girlfriend, whom he was considering marrying, cheated on him, and he was cynical for a while after that. I think that was a while ago, and we're both emerging from a cynical period. I don't feel any real fear or cynicism toward him. Right now, I'd just like to get to know him better. And that's what we're doing 1
Author Ruby Slippers Posted April 23, 2012 Author Posted April 23, 2012 Just a little update: We've gone out again, and it's good. I'm totally comfortable with him at my place now, and it seems he is, too. I have no idea if it's going to go anywhere, and I'm not concerned about it. He seems to like me, but I also pick up that rich guy pattern in him, of not being all that impressed by or appreciative of things. I must say that he's pretty much excellent at anything he touches. He also says he only needs 3-4 hours of sleep a night, so it's insane how much he gets done. He's not arrogant - just knows that he's good. I know he's a great "catch", but I'm evaluating our compatibility where I think it really counts - romance, values, fun, natural energy. Without all that, life with someone would just be a drag. I've also decided it's premature to rule out other prospects before I even know this guy very well, or before exclusivity has been established. So I'm still open to going on dates with other people. I've had some approaches, but since him, no one I liked enough to go out with yet. But if I do, I will.
Woggle Posted April 23, 2012 Posted April 23, 2012 Hmm, well, I already hinted to him that I don't multi-date, as did he - but this was not explicitly stated. He's made comments to suggest he perceives my dating market value as high. But that's good to keep in mind. What he has communicated to me is that he's solid in his own life, but has had a hard time finding a partner on his level and with his degree of integrity in relationships. For example, he told me his last girlfriend, whom he was considering marrying, cheated on him, and he was cynical for a while after that. I think that was a while ago, and we're both emerging from a cynical period. I don't feel any real fear or cynicism toward him. Right now, I'd just like to get to know him better. And that's what we're doing It sounds like you two have quite a bit in common.
mtber75 Posted April 23, 2012 Posted April 23, 2012 I'm surprise that OP commenter thinks this way? Guys won't care if you earn significantly less than them. In fact its kinda of a turn-on due to the age old evolutionary notion of a guy wanting to take care of a woman. I would be a little bothered if my female partner earns significantly more than me.
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