My relationship exploded last night...

[fishtaco]

One question. Why didn't she CALL you. Why text? To me, that's half of what people fight about and it's so stupid. If she had called your cell or landline if you have one, you would have heard it, yes?

 

That was my question. I said why didn't you call? When I do know she has arrived, I have gone out there to walk her in every single time, even when it was in the afternoon and she said I didn't need to. So it wasn't like I didn't want to.

 

But SG already nailed it on the head. It wasn't about the logistics. It was about her need to feel cared for, and I didn't know that, because like I said, I'm a caveman. My family was there but not present. I grew up with plenty of financial support, which I'm very appreciative for, but I had no emotional support, therefore I never ask for it, or even would occur to me that it's needed, for me or anyone else.

 

You see, when XYZ happens, and the response is... but I love you. That to me, makes absolutely no sense at all. But to some women, that would be the perfect answer. It's something I have to struggle for, because I simply don't get it. Love great, but it doesn't solve any practical problems. Remember that Eagles song? Love will keep us alive? Yeah, I think that's the dumbest song ever. But I can't keep thinking it's dumb if I need to learn to deal with womanly women.

 

You are forcing yourself to be in a relationship with someone you are only mildly attracted to. That's the real problem. She senses it too. She knows that you are not that into her.

 

Why not just be honest with yourself and her?

 

Because I'm trying to do the grown-up thing. I, at the very least, recognize that my past patterns do not work. I'm searching for a new pattern, is it the right thing to do? I have no idea. But it has a higher chance of being the right thing to do, than what I've done in my past, which has proven to be wrong.

 

You tell me. Because if I should break up with her and go back to bimbos and repeating the same patterns, this would be the time to do it.

[Eternal Sunshine]

How much does mild attraction bother you?

 

Is it getting better over time?

[zengirl]

If you're feeling dissatisfied in general and bimbos seem better (not easier; easier is rarely better, sadly) to you, then it's the time to end it. If you're happy with the relationship and feel compelled to work on it because you think that's more likely to make you happy, then you should work on it.

 

I don't think there's anything wrong with trying to break your pattern, fishtaco, and you clearly care about your GF. It really depends on how we read "mild attraction" how big of an issue that part is. Only you can really know. To me, "mild attraction" isn't the red flag to some women who fear their SOs aren't attracted to them. . . because I don't read it with that sense of urgency. I read it as, "Bimbos are hot. My GF is attractive, but I'm hardwired to be hella turned on by bimbos and she's not that, so I wasn't as attracted to her at first but have grown to care about her immensely." (I could be wrong, too, fwiw. That's just what my mind reads into it.) Some people might read it as, "I'm really not into her, and I'm forcing myself to be with her." But I get the nature of trying to re-wire your brain a bit, in a healthier direction, and actively attempting to build something with that.

 

It's just totally your call. It has to be. You're the one that has to live it!

[fishtaco]

How much does mild attraction bother you?

 

Is it getting better over time?

 

I don't know. In theory, I would think the strongest form of attraction comes from positive history together. No one can keep their looks, the "passion" even fades with time. So what's left? Why do people that have been married 60 years still love each other? I think it's the life they've built together, the compatibility, and the good memories.

 

That's my theory. So other than these communication issues, we are compatible. We are just starting to build good memories together. Is that going to grow my attraction for her? I hope so. But I've never done something like this before. So I don't know if it'll work.

 

If someone with authority can jump out an guarantee that no, you are doing the wrong thing. You are doomed to a life of dating psycho bimbos. Then in that case I should do both her and I a favor and break things off now.

[dasein]

So sorry you are having to go through this.

 

Been right where you are in certain respects so many times. I'm convinced that even if I were a paraplegic living in the Trump Tower penthouse caretaking 8 incapacitated family members, there would still be all these emergent "good" reasons for me, the man, to go to them, the woman, an unbalanced amount of the time. I've almost always lived in nicer, more comfortable surroundings than my GFs, but for some reason, stuff always comes up, turns out, just is, such that I am going to them 90% of the time. That's fine I guess, just another part of the "gentleman tax."

 

Where I start to chafe is in what you are experiencing, how they seem to turn into f-cking helpless children when they do actually deign to "put themselves out" to come to my more comfortable, usually more clean and sanitary living space the 10% of the time that I don't go to them. ALWAYS late, very late, always some stranger danger drama like the dark parking lot, always peevish if not out and out bitchy attitude, always either the chip on the shoulder or alternatively breaking down sobbing as if driving 30 minutes to my house through normal traffic was like quivering in the "Hiding Place" or sneaking through a hostile DMZ. W...T... F?

 

These are women who get up in the morning and commute at least 20 minutes to get to work, manage to do their jobs without incessant "travel drama." So what the hell "helpless widdle babee" switch gets flipped when they are coming to my house to spend a night or two?

 

I had -one- who didn't pull this crap, took her for granted, huge mistake. Will likely never find another one. Sorry for the rant, the OP just really resonated with me because it's like "do they all run the same exact plays? really?" I have been in at least 5 situations over the years with different women that if I typed them all out, people would think you and I were dating the same woman and all the rest of the ones I dated were the same woman too.

 

To the topic, don't coddle her, at least not if you consider her an adult. What she did was plainly -manipulative-, no other way to describe it unless you want to walk on eggshells and demean yourself into "what you did was bad, really bad bad, just bad (and maybe cry some too and have a little estrogen fiesta, nancy ) j/k." Please don't do that. Don't condescend and sugar coat, tell her -exactly- how she did wrong by you in the exact best words. Anything else and you aren't engaging in the clear communication they all pay such lip service to. And in my book, playing the breakup card to get one's way instantly brands one as "not suitable for the long haul." I'd rub her nose in the manipulation because she is presumably an adult who should know better, not a wee baby trying to wheedle something out of daddy. If she doesn't step to instantly, then heave ho and on to next. You know that theory that microchips double in capacity every two years? (Moore's Law). Well dasein's law is that bad behavior in women left unchecked doubles every two months.

 

In fact, you are reaping now what you sowed in the past by tolerating bad behavior, do some thinking and look back on your relationship over the last several months. There was a time you should have called her manipulative (or whatever the bad behavior was), forced the issue to a conclusion one way or the other, and the reason you are experiencing what you are right now is that you were too soft then. It's the mistake pattern I have identified in my own behavior in these situations. "It's OK you were 1.5 hours late honey, I'm just glad you are here now." "I'm soooo sorry I didn't get your text and walk you across the dark crack haven road, please o please forgive me!" "It hurts my feelings when you threaten to break up with me! but I understand why you did it."

 

Placating them doesn't work. By and large with few exceptions, they only respect raw power, f-ck look how they treat each other! Reasoning, softballing, empathizing doesn't work, they take it as a sign of weakness. Your woman will never be happy until you are exercising thorough dominion over her. I bought into this equal sh-t for years, it doesn't work, because -they- don't let it and don't appreciate it. They start to become discontented and surly the very second the iron boot heel is removed from their throats.

 

OK, so cool I can be the thread "bad guy" now and anything you actually choose to do will seem most tame and kind in comparison :lmao:

[Els]

I think you've gotten some very insightful answers, already - as opposed to intentionally manipulating you, I think she's just a little immature, doesn't know how to voice her concerns and problems in a rational way prior to a fight, and instead waits until the last straw hits the camel's back before everything explodes. Lots of people have problems with this until they garner some experience, IMO.

 

That being said, even looking at the incident by itself, it seems to give off some really strange vibes. Feels like she's almost looking for anything to start a fight off with, and that's really something that needs to be handled if you two choose to move forward. If you're alone in the dark and urgently waiting for someone, you call, you don't text. If your phone had been off, she might have a small case going for her there, but she didn't even try calling, and gets mad when you don't read a text?

 

That ALSO being said, I'm not sure what culture/environment you live in, but where I come from, men, especially bfs, are veryveryvery worried about girls being alone at night. Probably due to the high crime rate over there. Hasn't she come alone at night before, didn't you know it would be customary to walk her from her car in that case, and wouldn't you be quite vigilant with the phone?

 

Re: tomboys, I think it's a common misconception many men have that just because a woman fits the customary definition of 'tomboy' (male hobbies, not interested in girly girl activities, etc), she would think like a man in a relationship. Not true, IMO, and a very dangerous misconception to make, both for yourself and the woman who has been roped into an imaginary role. My experience has been that in relationships, a woman's desires, feelings, and actions, are quite independent of how they interact with people outside it. This is true for some men as well.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Elswyth

[Star Gazer]

First off you are not obligated to respond to a text message. Ever. I don't care who it is from.

You are not obligated to respond to a phone call.

 

That is enough right there to warrant completely disregarding this advice (and I hope you do, Fish).

[Star Gazer]

That being said, even looking at the incident by itself, it seems to give off some really strange vibes. Feels like she's almost looking for anything to start a fight off with, and that's really something that needs to be handled if you two choose to move forward.

 

I disagree. Given what Fish has said about his "baggage" and how it makes him act (robotic and insincere), I take the incident as her desperate attempt to see whether or not he actually cares about her, and being completely exasperated when that attempt resulted in further confirmation that he doesn't (at least by his behavior - in her eyes).

 

That ALSO being said, I'm not sure what culture/environment you live in, but where I come from, men, especially bfs, are veryveryvery worried about girls being alone at night. Probably due to the high crime rate over there. Hasn't she come alone at night before, didn't you know it would be customary to walk her from her car in that case, and wouldn't you be quite vigilant with the phone?

 

Totally agree. I've never had a BF who wasn't vigilant about being aware of my arrival time late at night, even in safe neighborhoods.

 

As for texting vs. calling... if a call is gonna make noise and alert him to her arrival, a text would too. That's what I'd be thinking, anyway. So, if in her shoes, I might think it didn't matter if I called or texted, he wasn't paying attention to his phone (aka wasn't paying attention to my arrival).

[fishtaco]

dasein, AvrageJoe, I used to think exactly like you guys. I used to walk away from relationships all the time. I actually enjoy being single. I usually multidate and sleep with a bunch of women, and I still have time to play video games, and go drinking with my buddies.

 

And I can EASILY go back to that. Honestly if I break up with my GF right now, I could be having sex with someone else by next week. Ever since I started dating my GF, as predictable as clockwork, all these women suddenly came out of the wood works. I'm not interested in a relationship with any of them, especially if this ends up blowing up, I wouldn't want a relationship at all for a long time. But if I play my cards right, I'd be hooking up in no time.

 

But I'm trying to make a change. I'm trying to find that balance. Maybe I'm living a pipe dream, but I want to try it until I fail first before I go back. So maybe I am one step behind you guys. I need to verify this first. Maybe I'll find that you guys are right after all, I don't know. But I have to try.

 

dasein, you are almost correct. She's usually 2 hours late as opposed to 1.5. Which is why if I'm at home, I play video games while I wait. If I'm at her place, I left one of my guitars there for the exact same reason. I don't even prepare for band practice anymore. Because I just do that when I wait for her to get ready. Plenty of time.

 

This is what I'm trying. I'm just going to be nice. That's right, nice. Because my theory is relationship is different from dating. If we reach a balance, great. If not, then eventually I'll hit my threshold, and then I'm out, and my theory will be proven false, and I'll hook up with random psycho bimbos for the rest of my life.

[Star Gazer]

This is what I'm trying. I'm just going to be nice. That's right, nice. Because my theory is relationship is different from dating. If we reach a balance, great.

 

I think you're on to something here.

 

But keep in mind that even if it doesn't work out with this girl, that doesn't mean you're doomed to date bimbos for the rest of your life.

 

You have good things ahead of you if you continue to be open to personal growth like this. I promise.

[fishtaco]

Totally agree. I've never had a BF who wasn't vigilant about being aware of my arrival time late at night, even in safe neighborhoods.

 

My neighborhood isn't bad. It's not great either. But I've always walked her.

 

She's customarily late. Usually 2 hours. Less than 30 minutes is a good day. Not just with me, with everyone and everything. She was even late picking up her dogs at the vet and had to pay the overnight fee one time... there was no appointment, she just needed to get there ANYTIME during the day before they closed.

 

So really I had no idea when she will show up. I did have the phone with me. I was downstairs playing video games, then I went up stairs to finish laundry, so I carried my phone with me upstairs. I must have left it for a minute and that was when she txted me. If she had called, I would have heard it, because a call keeps ringing for longer.

 

This one other time she got mad at me because I sent her a txt message and she never got it. I even have the txt message in my phone to prove it. We were planning on going to my friends' party, so I txted her the logistics. I didn't feel good, so I took a nap. She called me later and asked me how come I didn't tell her what's going on. So I said... oh good thing you called, because I didn't realize you never got my txt. So she got mad at me for not sending the txt message again when I didn't get a response. She ended up not going with me to my friend's party, I assume as punishment, or maybe not, I seem to misjudge her all the time.

[dasein]

dasein, AvrageJoe, I used to think exactly like you guys.

 

I tried "nice" up until 30 or so. What it got me was lots of wasted time in relationships that should have been terminated quickly and humanely instead of allowed to fester into truly toxic emotion sucking, brain damaging angst zombies, shambling around wreaking havoc until someone got a headshot and bystanders were infected amidst the wailing of helpless children.

 

Yes, you are right, I walk away more today. But in retrospect, I am walking for the right reasons. Life is too short to gamble on people who are bad bets. People who brandish breakup threats as relationship chits are beneath contempt. Sorry, there's really no two ways. They just are. If she will do that, she will do lots of soul sucking atrocious things. She will cheat one day and taunt you with it to "prove a point." When I look back in retrospect, based on what I know of exes keeping up with them and their lives via mutual acquaintances, there isn't one, not a single one of these bad seeds I wish I was back with. So this approach has worked well for me.

 

BTW, Your GF must be very, very hot amirite? Betcha wouldn't even be making this thread if she weren't.

[Star Gazer]

I seem to misjudge her all the time.

 

It's really, really easy to do this and assume the worst when you only have a negative history to reflect upon, and no model of what a healthy, normal relationship is like.

 

How long have you two been together?

[Star Gazer]

BTW, Your GF must be very, very hot amirite? Betcha wouldn't even be making this thread if she weren't.

 

No.

 

I guess you're not reading this thread in it's entirety, only picking out the "facts" that support your agenda.

[dasein]

she got mad at me for not sending the txt message again when I didn't get a response. She ended up not going with me to my friend's party, I assume as punishment, or maybe not, I seem to misjudge her all the time.

 

She sounds absolutely delightful.

[Imajerk17]

I agree with the harder-edged replies from the guys.

 

You train others how to treat you. By showing a willingness to walk away she would be a lot more "sorry" for her crazy ways and she would put a stop to them, because she'd see how much pain they cause her. And a girl who is always so late? I'd have a really tough time staying in a relationship with her.

[dasein]

No.

 

I guess you're not reading this thread in it's entirety, only picking out the "facts" that support your agenda.

 

Unlike all the sisterhood female apologists here, I don't have an agenda. If I missed OP saying she was homely, sue me. She's either hot or very good in bed. I doubt OP would be putting up with this otherwise.

 

Love some of the replies here paraphrased, "If you loved her more this wouldn't be such a big deal?"

[Star Gazer]

And a girl who is always so late? I'd have a really tough time staying in a relationship with her.

 

This one part is fair. However, if her lateness is a problem for Fish (it doesn't sound like it is, it sounds like she just comes over to "hang out" and he does the same when he goes to her place, and it doesn't bother him because he himself is just hanging out at home, playing games and such), it's upon him to establish boundaries. He can't get mad at her NOW for having been late in the past.

[Star Gazer]

Unlike all the sisterhood female apologists here, I don't have an agenda. If I missed OP saying she was homely, sue me. She's either hot or very good in bed. I doubt OP would be putting up with this otherwise.

 

Love some of the replies here paraphrased, "If you loved her more this wouldn't be such a big deal?"

 

Is any of this constructive?

 

Fish is trying to undergo some personal growth to improve his life and his interpersonal relationships, something it seems you "harder edged" guys no nothing about.

[sid3]

No.

 

I guess you're not reading this thread in it's entirety, only picking out the "facts" that support your agenda.

 

Nice catch!

[threebyfate]

fish, you speak English and your girlfriend speaks German.

[Fondue]

I'm going to side with the boys on this one.

 

She seems to be starting fights with you over the little things, trying to blow them out of proportion and throwing the "break-up" way too easily.

 

She's not a stable woman, by any stretch of the imagination. I think she IS manipulating you, and by second guessing yourself, right here, right now, she's getting her way. She's clearly trying to "mind-**** you."

 

Can you imagine what would happen if this relationship progresses to a LTR, marriage, kids? Is she always going to be so demanding and have that on/off switch that makes her go crazy? Think about it. Consider these things.

 

Don't just think about the now, think about the future. You're feeling guilt, she wants this. She wants you to run after her so it fills some sort of deep desire. The more you fall into this, the happier she will be. And she's going to get crazier, just to feel that same attention again.

 

It's not about you "not caring" about her. If it was, she would have gotten rid of you by now. She's starting these events because she likes drama.

 

It would be in your best interest to resolve this situation by breaking up with her-- for good.

[sid3]

+2 for German girls!

[Star Gazer]

Fish's admitted inability to communicate effectively with his GF does not make her a manipulative monster.

[Star Gazer]

fish, you speak English and your girlfriend speaks German.

 

If this is true (a potential language barrier of any type), these misunderstandings make even more sense.