Intuition/paranoia/insecurity

[xxoo]

I find it very odd that the man is keeping track of your periods....

 

In an established relationship, it's okay---but with someone new??It seems odd to me. (as if he's rushing intimacy on an emotional level)

 

It made me think two things:

 

1. he pays attention

2. he is counting the days of the relationship, and wondering when sex is going to happen. He knows it isn't going to happen when she has her period

[freestyle]

I have been, too. It's not that big a deal. I keep track of everyone's on here. Yours is coming in 8 days.

 

Just wait, my friend.......I'll be storing up all of my irrational anger just for you............

[eleanorhurting]

Well we talked about it.

 

He said he does not like how insecure and needy I have become and he said he thinks I am sabotaging the relationship.

 

Great...

[Nightsky]

Well we talked about it.

 

He said he does not like how insecure and needy I have become and he said he thinks I am sabotaging the relationship.

 

Great...

 

What did you say after he said that. Was that like his goodnight to you?

 

How did it go "I've been hurt in the past and I really like you a lot I just want to make sure you're not keeping us hidden because you arn't feeling me" "You're sabotaging the relationship you needy insecure girl"

[eleanorhurting]

What did you say after he said that. Was that like his goodnight to you?

 

No. We talked afterwards. About becoming official in the future.

 

But I just feel like he's different. Like I cross the needy and insecure line now and I'm the one who looks bad while he's cool and collected.

[eleanorhurting]

I told him:

 

Lately you've been making these little jokes that I am not sure how to interpret (like saying hes going out to drink and hes going to be swinging and flirting with girls) and it is making me feel uncomfortable. It is making me feel uncomfortable to the point where I feel like maybe we should slow things down because I am not really sure of your intentions with me and I don't want to have my feelings played with. What do you want with me please be honest are you just looking for someone to pass time with?

 

He said:

 

No, but I feel like you have changed. You used to be fun and outgoing and now you seem insecure and possesive and needy. I think you are overthinking things and sabotaging the relationship so it looks like I just wanted to use you. I think you are pre-programmed to do that.

[Nightsky]

No. We talked afterwards. About becoming official in the future.

 

But I just feel like he's different. Like I cross the needy and insecure line now and I'm the one who looks bad while he's cool and collected.

 

It can be annoying if you like some one and they tell you "no you don't you're just going to leave me when you get bored." Because it makes you feel your time isn't valued and that the person acusing you could do it to you.

 

But what I see you expressing is genuine concern over something you hadn't brought up yet and that your relationship is hidden. That kind of needyness that makes sense can be flatter as in she cares enough about me to worry I'll leave her and I dig that.

[eleanorhurting]

It can be annoying if you like some one and they tell you "no you don't you're just going to leave me when you get bored." Because it makes you feel your time isn't valued and that the person acusing you could do it to you.

 

But what I see you expressing is genuine concern over something you hadn't brought up yet and that your relationship is hidden. That kind of needyness that makes sense can be flatter as in she cares enough about me to worry I'll leave her and I dig that.

 

well I guess he didn't think it was flattering I guess he finds it a turn off.

 

And then he started jokingly comparing me to the ex girlfriend of a friend of ours who told our friend after 2 months of dating that he had to choices: to become exclusive and boyfriend and girlfriend or it was over.

 

I told him i didn't think it was funny.

[Nightsky]

I told him:

 

Lately you've been making these little jokes that I am not sure how to interpret (like saying hes going out to drink and hes going to be swinging and flirting with girls) and it is making me feel uncomfortable. It is making me feel uncomfortable to the point where I feel like maybe we should slow things down because I am not really sure of your intentions with me and I don't want to have my feelings played with. What do you want with me please be honest are you just looking for someone to pass time with?

 

Oh he thinks its funny to tease you. I think it can be fun to tease although if its hurting you its not fun.

 

 

 

He said:

 

No, but I feel like you have changed. You used to be fun and outgoing and now you seem insecure and possesive and needy. I think you are overthinking things and sabotaging the relationship so it looks like I just wanted to use you. I think you are pre-programmed to do that.

 

Oh no he said you changed? Now he's calling you pre-programmed as in you're not thinking.

 

He didn't really answer to anything you said so its almost like he was pre-programmed.

 

If you still like him and want this to work don't fight with him just try to talk it out with out setting off his pre programing. You might find yourself uninterested in him if he keeps this up.

[Nightsky]

well I guess he didn't think it was flattering I guess he finds it a turn off.

 

And then he started jokingly comparing me to the ex girlfriend of a friend of ours who told our friend after 2 months of dating that he had to choices: to become exclusive and boyfriend and girlfriend or it was over.

 

I told him i didn't think it was funny.

 

Lesson number one for guys reading this don't ever compare the girl you're dating to an ex. That goes double for some mutual friends 2 month ex! How dare he haha.

 

You must still want him if we are here talking about him though right? I mean nothing wrong with that maybe the like will help sort this out. If you don't like him anymore than to bad so sad for him.

[kaylan]

Deal with your insecurities before you start dating someone. If you dont, then you will only fulfill the pessimistic prophecy you came up with in your mind. Hows thats?

 

Well a lot of guys wont put up with a girl whos insecure and gives him any inclination that she will be a stress to date. Insecure women are draining...and no offense to papercut...but youve seen her threads...and shes a perfect example of why many dudes dont wanna deal with insure and paranoid women.

 

So if you act strange, some dudes will cross you off the potential girlfriend list, and sign you up on their hook up list (pump and dump only). And then when it happens you will think you were right about them all along. But were you?

 

Sort out your personal issues before you date anyone OP.

Edited April 13, 2012 by kaylan

[Nightsky]

Sort out your personal issues before you date anyone OP.

 

I'll be working on that for a life time lol. But seriously joking about flirting and swinging with other girls. Keeping the relationship hidden depending on what hidden means these things could be cause for concern.

 

The way she describes how she asked him and how it went down may be different but it's rude to compare a girl you're dating to a mutual friends ex who was dumped quickly.

 

Also she's already dating him so are you suggesting she dump him because it sounds like she still likes him and for all we know he likes her back.

[kaylan]

If paranoid alarm bells are going off in someones brain due to the person they are dating, I think they need to step back from that person and evaluate things.

 

Figure out whats the problem. If its themself, then obviously take time alone to learn how to manage their own insecurities.

 

If the problem is the other person, then simply not date them. I just believe early dating should be "no fuss, no muss"...anything else and Id axe the whole situation. Thats just me though.

[johan]

Deal with your insecurities before you start dating someone. If you dont, then you will only fulfill the pessimistic prophecy you came up with in your mind. Hows thats?

 

Well a lot of guys wont put up with a girl whos insecure and gives him any inclination that she will be a stress to date. Insecure women are draining...and no offense to papercut...but youve seen her threads...and shes a perfect example of why many dudes dont wanna deal with insure and paranoid women.

 

So if you act strange, some dudes will cross you off the potential girlfriend list, and sign you up on their hook up list (pump and dump only). And then when it happens you will think you were right about them all along. But were you?

 

Sort out your personal issues before you date anyone OP.

 

This is a bit extreme. Insecurities are a part of life. Thinking you'll ever resolve them all is a great way to mislead yourself. Also thinking they are absolutely bad is also a great way to set yourself up for a long bout of self-hate.

 

I'd also say that avoiding dating is counter-productive. Dating is probably the best way to come to terms with them. And that means also facing the expectation that 1) some people will trigger the worst of them, and 2) every relationship won't work out. Finding someone to be with is about the best way to resolve them. And people who are intolerant of them are not really relationship material.

Edited April 13, 2012 by johan

[eleanorhurting]

i understand what kaylan says about the self fulfilling prophecy. i think i am going to breathe in, breathe out and try to take it easy. I have this weekend pretty free because I finish obgyn today (yay!) so i am going back to focus on the things i did that made me fun and feel good about myself like spending time with my friends and family and working to make myself better (exercise, etc). and then i will just let things...happen. my god you dont know how hard this is for me i a such q compulsive worrier but i owe it to myself to put this aside and not sabotage the good things that happen to me.

[xxoo]

IME, waiting out the anxiety, finding my center, and then thinking about the "problem" can be very helpful.

 

Delaying sex with a new partner, when you aren't completely comfortable, is a wise choice. There is no good reason to rush sex beyond your comfort level.

[Ninjainpajamas]

i understand what kaylan says about the self fulfilling prophecy. i think i am going to breathe in, breathe out and try to take it easy. I have this weekend pretty free because I finish obgyn today (yay!) so i am going back to focus on the things i did that made me fun and feel good about myself like spending time with my friends and family and working to make myself better (exercise, etc). and then i will just let things...happen. my god you dont know how hard this is for me i a such q compulsive worrier but i owe it to myself to put this aside and not sabotage the good things that happen to me.

 

Yeah you're just waiting for the other foot to drop, and from the way this guy is talking to you it seems like he's being a bit passive aggressive as well as him comparing you an ex gf of his friends which is negative, is never a good thing.

 

He also needs to understand that things change during a relationship, and that this isn't some chill and relaxed situation where you can just play around first then decide whether he wants to be with you or not. His friends example was a good indication of how that may been his mentality as well, as well as him thinking it was unreasonable to be pressed for any kind of seriousness.

 

Him commenting about talking with other girls is a jab at you, it's a passive aggressive motive to poke/tease because he sees the vulnerability in you.

 

You would hope at this point he would be trying to be more understanding and communicative, however you're likely pouring it on too thick and screaming insecurity which always turns a guy off and pushes him away...he doesn't seem quite mature or knowledgeable enough on how to manage that, so instead he reacts immaturely and kinda pokes at you.

 

It's a difficult situation because you're kind of expecting him to fix your problems as well as go above and beyond the call of duty to reassure you and console you, to make you feel relaxed and calm, which isn't going to work anyway and I'm not seeing him showing a capability to stretch that direction either.

 

You can't expect him to fix you and you have to be able to function within a "normal" spectrum so that you don't behave erratically and unreasonably to this guy or any guy...however you don't seem ready for that and you're going to expect him to compensate for your issues which I'm sure is going to put too much pressure on him and push him away.

 

Communication and getting on the same page is your only solution at this point, he has to realize where you are coming from, empathize with you and work towards that goal with you. However I'm not sure from this guys point of view what the benefit is that is going to be, since in his eyes he's not even sleeping with you.

 

Otherwise If you can't gain an understanding of each other and be able to express how you feel and have it respected and acknowledged, then this is going to just get even more messier. Based on limited information of your last discussion with him, he seems like he's going to be resistant/defiant to your expectations.

 

Bottom line: Too much drama at this point...If you lay off you buy more time but that's not going to fix the problem. You are putting yourself in the "clingy, crazy girl" category at this point, so you're becoming endangered to being way more trouble than it's worth at this point in the game. If he can't see the light at the end of the tunnel then he's going to lose interest in you as a potential girlfriend, try to bring some more positives into the situation.

[johan]

i understand what kaylan says about the self fulfilling prophecy. i think i am going to breathe in, breathe out and try to take it easy. I have this weekend pretty free because I finish obgyn today (yay!) so i am going back to focus on the things i did that made me fun and feel good about myself like spending time with my friends and family and working to make myself better (exercise, etc). and then i will just let things...happen. my god you dont know how hard this is for me i a such q compulsive worrier but i owe it to myself to put this aside and not sabotage the good things that happen to me.

 

That's a good attitude to have. It's the fact that you're trying to date that is forcing you to work on these things. It's showing you where your weaknesses are. I find that women tend to be a lot better at switching gears in these situations and finding healthier mindsets.

[Kamille]

He sounds young, honestly. I understand what he's saying: he likes who you actually are when you're not focused on worrying. But I don't think he handled the conversation particularly well - especially considering the "down-lo" condition under which this relationship is evolving. You're allowed to be concerned and you're allowed to express your concerns.

 

Eleanor, I know you like this guy. I get the impression, however, that part of your insecurities stem from the fact that you're jumping ahead. You want the relationship to be a a stage where it currently isn't. So pay attention to this. Don't force this to become something it might never be. Be focused on what you want and on whether or not this relationship matches that. Take responsibility for your own well-being and don't fear losing him. You're a beautiful, sweet, cheerful woman. Don't waste your time trying to convince a guy to be into you. And in the meantime, remind yourself that you are that great fantastic person - whether or not this guy is in your life, and enjoy having fun with your friends, family and hanging out with yourself.

 

Good luck on the ob/gyn exam.

[zengirl]

How do you tell the difference between your "gut feeling" and your insecurities?

 

I know you've gotten a lot answered on THIS relationship dynamic in the thread, but I think this crucial question is a good one for EVERY relationship dynamic you'll ever be in.

 

Every time I have a conflict with hubby, I still wonder, "How much is me? How much is real?" I've been doing that for awhile, with things in general. Over time (in my life, not with hubby in particular), I have found that the "me" stuff is easier to bypass and my insecurities become more innocuous.

 

IMO, your gut feeling cannot emerge* until you are reflective enough to see your insecurities clearly, look them in the eye (metaphorically), and do the, "You're not real. I'm not afraid of you," thing. This doesn't make insecurities go away -- oh, if only it were that easy! -- and it doesn't make them "not real" in that manner, but it admits that they aren't what is real in the situation. It's a constant battle. Insecurities rarely go away. They dull over time and constant disuse maybe. But the idea that you can work them out on your own is silly. It will take time and positive reinforcement for that to happen. What you can do is lay them out there, bare, before you, and get past them in the moment. For me, that often involves having an actual "mental conversation" with them. With a partner that I trust and have grown with (your relationship is not at that stage or anywhere near it), it means disclosing them as well and being honest about where I come from and all the failings that contains. It means accepting my insecurities, where they come from, and what they entail, without succumbing to them.

 

*This is why when people on LS say, "Trust your gut," to posters obviously in turmoil, I cringe. Those people cannot trust their guts! They can't even find their guts! Their guts are piled high with hopes and fears. That's why they're flapping about in so much turmoil. (Not trying to offend anyone. I've been there too.)

 

I told him:

 

Lately you've been making these little jokes that I am not sure how to interpret (like saying hes going out to drink and hes going to be swinging and flirting with girls) and it is making me feel uncomfortable. It is making me feel uncomfortable to the point where I feel like maybe we should slow things down because I am not really sure of your intentions with me and I don't want to have my feelings played with. What do you want with me please be honest are you just looking for someone to pass time with?

 

He said:

 

No, but I feel like you have changed. You used to be fun and outgoing and now you seem insecure and possesive and needy. I think you are overthinking things and sabotaging the relationship so it looks like I just wanted to use you. I think you are pre-programmed to do that.

 

Hmm. Neither of you did this well, IMO. I think it is fine to talk about it and speak your mind, but I think I'd suggest a different way of approaching him. I usually start with statements of my intent, i.e., "I want to make it clear that I'm not just looking for someone to pass the time with, and I want to make my intentions really clear. I see this as something potentially real that could be a relationship someday. I think they're just jokes, but some of the things you've been saying make me wonder if we're on the same page -- if really you want to go out swinging and see other girls, I understand that, but I'm not sure if they're just jokes or if you're trying to express yourself. I just wanted to make it really clear what I was looking for." (Even this language could be more polished, sorry. It's early.)

 

You'll see I kept a lot of your content, but I framed it from a position of strength. This way is not all insecure about it -- the bit about slowing things down doesn't have to be in there as a passive aggressive (that's what you did) threat. No, the reality of a potential end if he's not serious about it is clear as day, but it's not a threat. It's a reality: This is what I want. This is what I see. Clarify, please.

 

And then you wait. What a man says or doesn't say here will be telling, but the most telling will be what he subsequently (over the next few days or weeks) does or doesn't do. Does he step up his game? Does he pull back? Does he stop the jokes that made you insecure? (Note, in my version: You didn't SAY you were insecure because that might be the very reason he was making them; guys do that. Instead, you explained why they weren't compatible with what you wanted.) But you always wait for more info. People will reveal themselves to you.

 

Obviously, you can't re-do this convo. What's done is done. What he said was problematic as well and suggests to me that he was trying to make you insecure, if not on purpose at least subconsciously. I think there's some truth in what he said as well, but both of you are too worried about getting power (in the wrong ways) in this relationship. I'll be honest, it doesn't sound terribly promising (not horribly damning either). Your idea of cooling down is good. I just wanted to give you some tips to try to express such insecurities -- without labeling them as such -- from a more empowered place in the future, with this guy or another guy.

[freestyle]

I'm not saying this is the case with you, Eleanor---but something I've observed over the years---

 

The terms, "needy" & "insecure"---get bandied about too quickly at times.

 

It depends on the person assigning that label to someone.For example, my sister is so immersed in her career, that she doesn't have much time for friendship.

 

So, if one of her old friends expects to communicate with her, let alone spend time with her more than once every few months, she's instantly labeling that person as being, "needy' or high-"maintenance".

 

I've also seen people who are commitment-phobes (men & women both) have a knee-jerk reaction of assigning that label to someone they're dating,as soon as the "where is this going" conversation comes up.

 

Even if they're not being pressured by the person they're dating---they still label that person as "needy" & "insecure"..........for merely wanting to be kept in the loop.

[eleanorhurting]

wow zen that is the first time someone suggest I handle my insecurities that way. I always just expected them to go away but what you suggested sounds much more doable. I think I did well on my exam! I tried to picture myself doing the exercise you suggested about talking to my insecurities and I tried to let the whole thing go (i get really anxious about standarized tests too because i failed one in october and i keep thinkig its going to happen again. its a negative thought pattern that i learned i have). He called me to see how my exam went and I tried to act like the whole thing is just something that happened and I am in a more empowered place now. anyways im starved and talking from my phone waiting for my sister to pick me up (i crashed my car again for those who follow my driving horror stories) so i will post laters. Fun weekend ahead have fun everyone!

[thatone]

I think I would be really disappointed in myself for letting it happen to me again. To allow myself to have feelings for someone and feel completely vulnerable and that they had insincere intentions and tried to fool me into thinking otherwise.

 

Maybe if someone randomly who I just met tried to pump and dump then I would not care and I would walk away. But from someone who knows me and knows my weaknesses then it would hurt a lot.

 

So you missed the entire point of those months of therapy, and still make ALL decisions based on how an imaginary outcome might affect your own insecurity.

 

This process will repeat until you stop doing that.

 

You'll get pumped/dumped by one player type and retaliate against the next one that isnt and drive him off. And after a string of these hot/cold relationships it'll never cross your mind that you never bothered to pay nearly enough attention to obvious signs these men gave you because you were only concerned with your own insecurity.

Edited April 13, 2012 by thatone

[eleanorhurting]

So you missed the entire point of those months of therapy, and still make ALL decisions based on how an imaginary outcome might affect your own insecurity.

 

This process will repeat until you stop doing that.

 

You'll get pumped/dumped by one player type and retaliate against the next one that isnt and drive him off. And after a string of these hot/cold relationships it'll never cross your mind that you never bothered to pay nearly enough attention to obvious signs these men gave you because you were only concerned with your own insecurity.

 

 

I am not sure I get what you mean.

 

I know that I have a negative thought pattern and I am trying to break it

 

But, I feel like I am putting so much pressure on myself to "not make the same mistakes"and not ruin things that I end up getting very anxious to the point that sometimes I break down and start crying because I am so stressed and so scared of ruining things and then I am counterproductive because I end up doing or saying things to drive people away.

 

I felt this way when I started medical school. After a bad test I started getting nervious and anxious to the point that I was my own worst enemy and I kept failing. But now somehow I feel much better. Sometimes i have setbacks but usually things go well. But at first it was horrible I even thought of dropping out because I could not deal with the pressure.

 

I don't know why I get so anxious/insecure but I don't want to feel it anymore. Sometimes I will just let myself cry and breathe deeply in my own room or vent here so that people won't realize how neurotic I really am. In first year of medical school I broke down during a test. It was horrible.

 

I am practicing what Zen told me and I am breathing in, breathing out and trying to calm down, focus on the task at hand and act completely rationally.

 

I just wish there was a time where this would come to me naturally without having to try so hard.

Edited April 14, 2012 by eleanorhurting

[zengirl]

I just wish there was a time where this would come to me naturally without having to try so hard.

 

It will. It's just like exercise. It's hard when you're out of shape, and then gets easier and/or you can move to handling tougher situations. -- though it always takes some work.