What a mess...

[wannabdone]

Yes.

 

 

 

Ok here's the deal with the xgf. She knew of MW, knew we had been hanging out, and after the "I'm unhappy" talk she started suspecting. She'd ask questions, but it was never really a confrontation. A little while later, I broke up w/ her and confessed about MW at the same time. Her immediate reaction was to want to work it out, obviously with the caveat that I would go NC with MW. I told her I didn't want to work it out. Not much really changed between us for a while though, we were still on friendly terms, stayed in the same house, slept in the same bed (no sex), etc. We were acting more as roommates than anything. After a couple months she took a job in a different city and moved out, so she's not living here anymore, but she still tells me she misses me and stuff like that. I don't reciprocate. We do still talk on the phone and she's been out here a couple weekends, which is no doubt a bad idea, but I don't think I'm giving her false hope (I asked one time, and she just laughed and said I've made it obvious I don't want to be with her, and that she just hopes we can be friends). We haven't even begun any discussion on what to do with the house.

 

Only once in all this, a couple months after the break-up, did she really get pissed about MW. It made me respect her a whole lot more, and I think that was part of the problem all along. She never really stuck up for herself, I started to take her for granted. No that's not an attempt at blaming her for me starting an A with MW, just reflection. I own plenty of blame for my lack of communication of my needs, among other things.

 

So yes, I think you're right about not really loving her and just missing having someone around. That's why I'm not planning on rushing back to her. When I mentioned the ex-gf at the end of my OP, it wasn't to say I was hoping to go back. I have enough trust in my feelings that if I wanted to be with her, I would have married her before.

 

And yes, I tend to be long-winded.

 

 

Stillwater, I think you are seeing everything clearer. I think you see that you are fond for your ex, and respect her, for she never did anything to you, but you know you really don't have a future with her.

 

But, can you see that you staying with MW is actually helping her stay M?

[wannabdone]

and let me add, I know that its easier said than done, to leave this person. I'm just telling you from first hand experience, if they don't leave after you given a dead line or whatever, they never will. You are just enabling her. I enabled my xMM to stay in his M for ten years, I never want to see anyone do what I did.

[East7]

So yes, I think you're right about not really loving her and just missing having someone around. That's why I'm not planning on rushing back to her. When I mentioned the ex-gf at the end of my OP, it wasn't to say I was hoping to go back. I have enough trust in my feelings that if I wanted to be with her, I would have married her before.

 

And yes, I tend to be long-winded.

 

Poor girl..

 

She was the only one who ever REALLY loved you. Your MW has nothing to lose, she has no children..it would be easy for her to leave and be with you. But she doesn't want to be with you ! Sad, cold, reality check !.

 

Others have been in your shoes, your story has nothing special. The same patterns happen everywhere with everyone. A married woman will never make you a priority over her H. She will use you for what's missing in her M, period, she will NOT look for a future with you.

 

It is up to you to go on with a second-class relationship or breaking the pattern. You are now prisoner of your feelings for her. You need to do what's right for YOU and stop the A.

[stillwater]

How long do you expect to wait for OW? As long as it takes?

I don't know. I'm about at wits end, but I think I've been saying that for a couple months now. It's a roller-coaster, for instance I saw her yesterday and things went great, and I felt like I could give her at least a little more time, to the end of the month or something (yes I know she's had months, a few more weeks will accomplish nothing). Then today I talked to her and she was very non-committal about doing something this weekend ("I don't know if I can", blah blah) which just drives home East7's point about not being a priority, and it just makes me want to say "call me when I can be a priority in your life" and slam the phone down.

 

Have a read at my recent posts....I have finally realised that I potentially could wait 'forever' on MM.

I'll take a look, thanks.

 

But, can you see that you staying with MW is actually helping her stay M?

I do, but I'm not sure it's healthy for me to initiate NC with that mindset. It seems like I'd be going into it with the hope that it will convince her to leave, like I'd still want the relationship back. I completely understand what you're saying, I just think if I'm going to cut off contact it has to be with the understanding that I'm done, not as a manipulative tool to get her. Like I think one way would allow me to start moving on, the other would have me jumping at my phone every time it rings hoping it's her. Idk.

 

Poor girl..

She was the only one who ever REALLY loved you.

That's true, I can see that perfectly clearly. But not to be rude, I'm not sure what your point is. Yeah, I'm walking away from someone who truly loves me, but if I don't feel the same way... ?

 

It's also not like I feel I led her on for years. I never made a conscious decision of "I will never marry this girl" and then stayed with her until I worked up to gonads to break up (or, as the case may be, found a cheap and hurtful way out). At any given time it just never felt like I should get married to her right then, but maybe I'd feel it in the future. Maybe I'm stupid, that's entirely possible. Maybe I have some fairy tale delusions of what love should feel like after 9 years that are completely wrong. Breaking up with her could be the biggest mistake of my life. Or, it could be the best thing that's ever happened to me (no, not because of this stupid A). But there's only one way to find out. And so far, after living apart for a couple months, I'm not feeling like I'm constantly desperate to see her -- which is the way I feel when I don't see MW for just a few days.

 

Your MW has nothing to lose, she has no children..it would be easy for her to leave and be with you. But she doesn't want to be with you ! Sad, cold, reality check !.

 

Others have been in your shoes, your story has nothing special. The same patterns happen everywhere with everyone. A married woman will never make you a priority over her H. She will use you for what's missing in her M, period, she will NOT look for a future with you.

My head knows all this...

[wannabdone]

Wanna, this is foggy logic. I've seen you say this a lot and it's almost as if you may subconsciously be using this NC as a final attempt to get your xMM to realize what he's missing so he finally divorces his wife, since a dozen Dday's over the course of a decade didn't end their marriage.

 

Regardless, you did not enable xMM to stay married for ten years. He married because he wanted to get married. He had an affair because he doesn't want to divorce. You didn't "help" him stay married or make his marriage more tolerable as most OW try to convince themselves in order to explain away why the MM won't leave.

 

He's where he's always wanted to be and would have stayed married whether or not you were in the picture. Same with OM's MW.

 

 

LOL...For me? Not at all. I absolutely want nothing to do with my xMM. if I thought that way, I would come out and say it. And again I appreciate you bringing up the dozen d days. I have been very open and honest about my stupidity and ignorance.... being that I was in an A for 10 years of stupidity and ignorance, I might know a little bit about them. Not saying I'm an expert, but know a some of the inner workings. Maybe if more ppl were open and honest about their A's, then ppl such as yourself, who have never been in one, would have a clearer understanding that not every single thought/feeling/emotion was the exact same in every case.

 

Regardless of what you think... there are times that the affair does enable them to not handle their own M or deal with if they want out of that M or not. Since most ppl in A's are conflict avoiders, its perfect to help aid in that. It gives them an outlet. (of course, not in every case, but in some) I don't speak from what I think happens, I speak from going through it myself. And ppl do not ALWAYS have A's because they don't want a D. This seems like foggy logic to me, seems to be very generalized and making assumptions that each situation is the same. I've heard you say multiple times, that they have no option, because they are M and made that chose years ago. Which isn't true. I M my H, and I divorced him, with out him wanting the D. It happens everyday.

 

True this isn't the case with every single situation, sometimes it is, sometimes its not.

 

I'm not telling stillwater to use this as a tactic for NC. I'm merely saying he very well might be enabling her to do nothing but exactly what she is doing now, because she has the best of both worlds. If its meant and she truly loves him, she will leave. IMO, she would have already left, but again, I don't know the situation entirely, so I can't say that. Personally I think he should go NC and move forward from the situation. Leaving both women (MW and xGF) behind.

[wannabdone]

When conflict-avoiding cheater (any cheater) has an affair and has NO intention on ever leaving their spouse, they are cake eating plain and simple. Cake eating should not be confused with being "helped" by the other person to remain married, as the cake eater would have remained married regardless.

 

I agree with that. I was merely saying exactly what you are... When conflict avoiding cheaters have an affair and has NO intention on ever leaving... cake eater. But, there are times, (might be few and far between), they do have intentions of leaving. Cake eaters will always remain married.

[stillwater]

I truly believe that in the beginning she intended to leave. I met her parents and siblings. They all knew what was going on (which made for an awkward Thanksgiving from what I understand, everybody knowing about the affair except for BH -- nice family eh? Another red flag...). I've had a couple long conversations with one sibling and it sounded for sure like she(MW) wanted out. And who knows, maybe she still does, but it's fairly obvious that's not going to happen. I think she just figured BH would let her go, and when he didn't, she wouldn't leave -- yep, a conflict avoider. The funniest part is when she says she doesn't want to hurt anyone, yet she's killing everyone involved. A close second is when she says she made a promise to be with him and it's hard to break that, but apparently the promise to not sleep with other men is no big deal.

 

Deep down I knew if she didn't leave right away she never would. And quite frankly, the fact that the A has continued this long is just hugely unattractive as far as a future LTR with her goes. She knows how much she's hurting me but it makes no difference (or she doesn't care) despite saying she loves me. And not that it's ever justified in any way at all (as was driven home to me by how much I hurt my xgf), but at least you can attempt to rationalize a short, quick exit affair as a means to an end, whereas by now this is just cake eating. And yeah I realize I share plenty of blame for allowing it to continue.

 

The short version is I know there are a million red flags and a lot of me actually kind of despises her as a person, and I just need to break the habit and move on.

Edited April 14, 2012 by stillwater

[whichwayisup]

I truly believe that in the beginning she intended to leave. I met her parents and siblings. They all knew what was going on (which made for an awkward Thanksgiving from what I understand, everybody knowing about the affair except for BH -- nice family eh? Another red flag...).

 

This is pretty f'ed up. I don't know where to begin with this..No point in saying it as I figure you know.

 

She knows how much she's hurting me but it makes no difference (or she doesn't care) despite saying she loves me.

 

Yet you keep going back for more..Pain. Why should she care about you when you don't care about yourself? You're a grown man, who can make his own decisions, you can say NO at any time and walk away. You can ignore her calls, change your numbers (cell and landline), change your email address.. Make it impossible for her to reach you. Don't put this all on her. She's only thinking of herself, just like you're only thinking of yourself. Sorry to be blunt, but the fact you WILLINGLY met her family, everybody knew of the A but her husband..ALL of you made a complete fool of him. It's sickening and no wonder Thanksgiving was uncomfortable. You're weren't thinking of him nor was she when this was going on.

 

Anyway, if you want it over make it over! It really is that simple.

 

you cry, you grieve the loss and you will hurt for a while..But, you'll feel better and be out of the habit and quit the addiction of her and the A.

[stillwater]

I wish I could say that was the most despicable thing that happened...

It's no lie when I say this brought out the absolute worst in me, on every level from the lying, cheating, and almost psychopathic lack of empathy for exgf and BH, all the way to stupid crap like hoping my favorite team would lose in the NCAA so I wouldn't have to worry about who she would watch the next game with. But for whatever reason I couldn't see it at the time, and now I just feel so ashamed. At the time I told myself I didn't owe her BH anything, it was her vows, now I put myself in his shoes and think how dumb that sounds. I think of everyone gathered around that Tgiving table knowing, and just feel awful. I think of her going to therapy with him, probably saying she wants to work on things, when there wasn't even a blip in our affair, and it makes me feel like crap. How does one get so caught up in the moment? And worse, why do I still see her, knowing how I feel when I think back on that stuff? The very height of hypocrisy, really.

 

Hmm do I come across as whiny as I think I do?

[whichwayisup]

Yup you do. But, you are coming out of the fog and realizing how unhealthy and self serving this was for you. To you it was more than just an affair. To her it was cake eating and having both worlds at her finger tips.

 

She may care about you, maybe even love you, but her not ending her marriage is proof that she still has something with her husband and she's not willing nor wanting to walk away. Like it or not, whatever her reasons are you may not like, but to HER they are very valid and real.

[East7]

Then today I talked to her and she was very non-committal about doing something this weekend ("I don't know if I can", blah blah) which just drives home East7's point about not being a priority, and it just makes me want to say "call me when I can be a priority in your life" and slam the phone down.

 

Stillwater, I have been OM for some time, that's why I am trying to help and open your eyes. Otherwise I wouldn't waste my time..

 

The words won't matter. Only actions count. She is still very married, sleeping with her H, waking up with him etc etc... How do you feel about that ? A priority ? Or a dirty little secret ?

 

Actions define decisions. She is showing you that her decision is to making no decision...She sounds ok with the situation and doesn't want to change it. She will probably string you along for still a long time until her H finds out and then she will throw you like a used rug. And you will be struck and devastated why she turned from a sweet lover to a heartless b***ch (I have seen it happening MANY times on LS)

 

 

I truly believe that in the beginning she intended to leave. I met her parents and siblings. They all knew what was going on (which made for an awkward Thanksgiving from what I understand, everybody knowing about the affair except for BH -- nice family eh? Another red flag...). I've had a couple long conversations with one sibling and it sounded for sure like she(MW) wanted out. And who knows, maybe she still does, but it's fairly obvious that's not going to happen. I think she just figured BH would let her go, and when he didn't, she wouldn't leave -- yep, a conflict avoider. The funniest part is when she says she doesn't want to hurt anyone, yet she's killing everyone involved. A close second is when she says she made a promise to be with him and it's hard to break that, but apparently the promise to not sleep with other men is no big deal.

 

Meeting her parents and siblings sounds VERY odd . Are you sure they now about the A ? Maybe they genuinely think you are just a friend.. How come her H wasn't with her for Thanksgiving ?

 

Deep down I knew if she didn't leave right away she never would. And quite frankly, the fact that the A has continued this long is just hugely unattractive as far as a future LTR with her goes. She knows how much she's hurting me but it makes no difference (or she doesn't care) despite saying she loves me. And not that it's ever justified in any way at all (as was driven home to me by how much I hurt my xgf), but at least you can attempt to rationalize a short, quick exit affair as a means to an end, whereas by now this is just cake eating. And yeah I realize I share plenty of blame for allowing it to continue.

 

The short version is I know there are a million red flags and a lot of me actually kind of despises her as a person, and I just need to break the habit and move on.

 

Alleluia..You are starting to open the eyes

 

She won't change anything, she doesn't want to change anything. She has no children, probably no or not much property/assets with her H, it is very EASY to move out. She doesn't want to hurt her H ? She has already thrown him under the bus, don't you think...But you hurt your xGF for her, why cant' she do the same ? Her H can move on and find a faithful wife without baggage. She just wants cake-eating and keep you and her H both as long as it can last. The married partners are VERY selfish, it is all about them, you will realize this soon.

 

Also, a MW will not respect you as long as you are her lover. The day you will tell her it's over she will start to respect you. That's how it works. Take your integrity and self-respect back and tell her your are fed up with the A.

[stillwater]

Meeting her parents and siblings sounds VERY odd . Are you sure they now about the A ? Maybe they genuinely think you are just a friend.. How come her H wasn't with her for Thanksgiving ?

 

She told the siblings about the A before long, and I have no reason to doubt it because we were touchy-feely in front of them, stayed over at one's house a couple times and shared a bed (and she later made a comment about having to wash the sheets), and I specifically talked to one several times about the A and her(MW) planning to leave. They knew. She didn't tell the parents, but it didn't take long for them to figure it out. I guess her mom would call her and go on for an hour at a time about how she'd never support her if she left for another man, etc etc. Even told her to just have her A and get it out of her system so she could make babies. (Yes! Bring babies into an unstable M! Brilliant!)

 

Her H was there for Thanksgiving. That's why I was saying it was awkward, it was her family and him, so everyone at the table knew she was sleeping with someone else, except him.

 

I really appreciate the help. Honestly, just reading through a lot of these threads has been VERY eye-opening, as I see the exact same pattern I'm going through played out a million times. So much for feeling different!

[stillwater]

Sounds like you hit the jackpot in both the future wife and in-law department.

Yeah, as I start to take a step back I'm seeing that, and realizing this is no doubt for the best...

[Arrangrl]

Hi SW

 

How are you doing?? Are the waters becoming less mussy?

 

It aint easy, is it?

 

Thinking of you

 

Arran

[stillwater]

Thanks Arran, I'm doing ok. I've had a funny feeling where I don't really want to see her but I feel like I should call or email. Just the habit talking I guess.

[wannabdone]

Thanks Arran, I'm doing ok. I've had a funny feeling where I don't really want to see her but I feel like I should call or email. Just the habit talking I guess.

 

 

I think that is all part of out growing it. You are moving on from wanting this with her. So you don't want to see her, but as you said out of habit you feel like you should email her. I think that means your growing and healing! Congrats!

[love is dangerous]

karma is a bitch , your heart broken the way you broke your ex gf heart, you probably dont appreciate her because shes available while the married women is a challenge for you because you aint got her. i hope your ex gf moves on and finds someone happy because it seems like you have strung her on for 9 years which is evil. when shes happy with someone else thats when you'll realise what youve lost. silly guy typicaly guy wanting what you cant have and not appreciating what youve got