Ugh, can't get past a 1st/2nd date. Virgin. 25. Impossible to form chemistry

[mooninite]

I'm 25. I'm physically active and fit. I have a good job and money. I have tons of friends, guys and girls. I go out and drink, party like any post-college mid twenty something year old. I live in a big, urban city. By all means you'd probably be surprised to think I'm a virgin, or that I've never had a girlfriend. Or ever been on more than 3 dates with a girl.

 

I have recently gotten on the online dating websites (match, and OKC). I have gotten several dates. They all result in either no call/text back after the 1st date, some result in delayed , wishy-washy responses that eventually fade, some result in 2nd dates which they flake out on at the last minute. A few progress into 2nd dates. A couple have even progressed to 3rd dates, but, they all end the same way. WTF am I doing wrong? I thought it's supposed to get easier/less nervous after doing it so much. But I've been rejected so much, it just makes me feel MORE depressed. It's actually made my confidence plummet compared to when I first stated online dating. Isn't it supposed to get easier?

 

My problem is I don't know how to flirt. I don't give off any red flags (at least I don't think). WTF am I doing wrong? Am I a terrible kisser (for thegirls I have made out with?). It's not like I act like a total dork or a loser. Or that I never make a move. So what gives? I do my damnedest to make conversation. I can tell when I'm having fun and in my mind I know when I feel a connection or have fun or not. I;'ve even turned down my fair share of girls.

 

Brief summary of all the girls, in order over the past year:

 

1. 1st date, 2nd date, kiss/make out at baseball game. 3rd date, kiss goodnight. She goes on a month-long vacation abroad. When she returns, is flaky, eventually she gives the friend-zone. I decline, tell her I have too many friends.

 

2. 1st date. Answers my call for 2nd date, but flakes out.

 

3. 1st date, 2nd date kiss her goodnight. Responds back, wishy-washy about meeting up 3rd time, fizzles out.

 

4. 1st date, no response

 

5. 1st date (meet this girl at a beer festival, not online). She's a bit older chick, I don't like her - too different, I don't call her back.

 

6. 1st date, kiss on lips goodnight. 2nd date, end same way. 3rd date, dancing with each other and grinding at the bar, making out in the bar, end the night making out all over each other in the train back from the bars, in the cab ride home. After this she goes on vacation for a week, gets wishy-washy about meeting up/respnding when she's back, eventually she tells me she started sating someone else

 

7. 1st date, kiss on lips to end it. Wish-washy about 2nd date, but eventually we end up going on 2nd date. After 2nd date, i try to set up 3rd, she says shes dating someone else.

 

8. 1st date. The girl brought along her friend to the bar. WTF? Needless to say, I wasnt interested in the girl, didnt call her back

 

9. 1st date - no response back

10. 1st date - no response back

11. 1st date - did not like the girl, did not call her back

12. 1st date - this girl's interest level was WAY high in e-mails. her emails were super excited, twice as long as mine. she e-mailed/called me first rather than wait for me to call her, to set up the date. Date went well, kissed her goodnight after walking her home. She tells me she is "not over her ex-boyfriend yet" and deletes her OKC profile. My guess? she met someone else

13. 1st date, kiss goodnight. Make plans for 2nd date, she bails 1 hour before.

14. 1st date - no response back

15. 1st date - don't like the girl, never call her back.

 

16. 1st date, no kiss. Get 2nd date. Goes really well, we are making out at the baseball game, in the shared cab ride back home. Next day, no response, never heard from her again.

 

17. 1st date, no kiss. Get 2nd date.Goes alright, go in for the kiss, she back off. Try to set up 3rd date anyways, she tells me she is busy/going to be traveling over the summer/other excuses as to why she isnt ready to date.

 

18. 1st date. She's kind of fat, but nice. I give her a call, set up 2nd date. We are making out at the bar, dancing. I end up never calling her back, but never hear from her either. Who knows.

 

19. 1st date. Text her back, replies, says she didn't feel romantic connection

19. 1st date, Flakes out for 2nd date

20. 1st date, no response back after

 

AND that was all of 2011. Maybe a few I'm forgetting, but they didnt progress past 1st dates anyways.

 

2012 I take a break From November until March. Get back on the site aggressively. All the following dates were in the past month:

 

21. 1st date, 2nd date, I don't like the girl, never kiss her, never call her back after 2nd date

22. 1st date, call her back, she texts back saying to be friends. Declined her generous offer.

23. 1st date. Girl goes on vacation for a couple weeks. When she gets back, says she is dating someone else

24. 1st date kis her goodnight, girl takes 2 days to respond to text. 12 hours to respond after that. All wishy-washy answers. i eventually tell "i get the hint, thanks for coming out".

25. 1st date, wishy-washy answers, slow to respond (still in the stages)

26. 1st date, responds back saying she wants to be friends.

[Andy_K]

I kind of feel your pain to be honest. I think I've met about 10 girls in the last 6/7 months. With 7 there was just a first date, one was three dates, one about 6 dates, and one I had a fling with but wasn't really interested in.

 

Thing is, I don't feel that I'm really doing anything differently to what I did a few years ago when my dates were largely successful. But I guess I must be.

[mooninite]

I don't think I'm doing anything overtly wrong. I'm normal and attractive enough to get dates. BTW, I am Asian, and 5'7". So not exactly 6 foot, tall dark and handsome, but I'm muscular, attractive, and well dressed (I go shopping with my chick friends).

 

In fact, to most people in my social circle, I'm so normal and social, and they see me out drinking with them, or going on dates... most actually think I'm doing GOOD. Or that I'm getting laid every now and then. No one knows the extent of my problem.

 

I'm too ashamed to even admit this to the rest of my friends. No one knows I'm a virgin.

 

And I think that's the problem. I'm social, friendly, talkative. But on dates, I behave the same way. I just don't know how to flirt. Or make that connection. Even on dates that I have fun at or feel a connection, to me, it just feels as if i'm talking say with a good friend, vs. a boring stranger. I do not know said romantic connection versus any other platonic connection.

 

Even when I do kiss or makeout with the girls, it just all feels so mechanical to me. My brain goes into autopilot. I have a boner, yes, but I still don't know what a romantic connection is. I don't know what chemistry is.

 

Here's how it typically goes:

 

We meet up. Give her a hug. We sit down, make intial small talk about the day/current events. Order our drinks. Get down to talking about common interests. Share stories, crack a few jokes. Order another round, or food. Keep the convo light-hearted and fun, and relevant to our demographic - concerts, festivals, bars/clubs, cool stuff in the city, funny stories, common interests. Kiss goodnight if it went well. Clearly somewhere in this process, I'm not doing enough to make her sexually attracted. Enough to perhaps get a 2nd date 50% of the time. I usually call/text back 2 days after saying "I had a good time, and that we should do it again".

Edited April 11, 2012 by mooninite

[mooninite]

How do I get better at this? I don't even know how to get better... In fact the more dates I go on, the more I just become jaded by the whole process, tired of it, and less confident. For example, I have a date this Thursday. I'm almost preparing for another failure, i'm not excited about it, i just feel like "wtf is the point? i don't see how I can do anything differently" type attitude.

[turt]

I have the same problem but I'm 23. What do you do on your dates?

[somedude81]

Damn, 26 1st dates and no success?

 

BTW, if you are making out with the girls you are doing something right. If you couldn't flirt, a girl would never let you kiss her.

[SJC2008]

First of all it's not your "job" to make them feel attracted. They either are right away, will grow attracted or will never be attracted. Stop kissing on the first date and making out on the second. End the first date with a hug and that's it. Why would you even want to kiss a stranger you just met anyway? No wonder it feels "mechanical", the majority of women IMO aren't looking to hop into bed so a second date makeout session isn't the best idea UNLESS you are sure both of you are feeling it. I'd hold oud a seroius makeout session till date 3 at the earliest IMO. Also, learn how to compliment. Don't say I like your dress. Say I like your dress, it really brings out your eyes. Don't over do it but make sure they have depth if you will. Don't rant about yourself or give tons of info about yourself, it may come accross as egotistical. Ask open ended questions, meanig no questions that she can just say yes or no to. That helps get the convo going. Most of all stop thinking so much if they like you because you are there to determine if you like them to remember. Qualify the woman too, it's kind of hard to explain what that is but it shows her (subtly/subconscously) that there are things you are looking for and aren't going to get with just anyone.

[somedude81]

First of all it's not your "job" to make them feel attracted. They either are right away, will grow attracted or will never be attracted. Stop kissing on the first date and making out on the second. End the first date with a hug and that's it. Why would you even want to kiss a stranger you just met anyway? No wonder it feels "mechanical", the majority of women IMO aren't looking to hop into bed so a second date makeout session isn't the best idea UNLESS you are sure both of you are feeling it. I'd hold oud a seroius makeout session till date 3 at the earliest

Yeah, that sounded really odd to me.

 

There is no way I'd have feelings for girl I barely knew and I'd have no desire to kiss her. I don't think the girls would feel too differently.

[Imajerk17]

Well, first of all, thanks for including relevant details here first of all. Anyway, if I counted correctly, you kissed 9 of the 26 girls you went out with. You must be doing something right. My other thoughts:

 

(1) Women who are on online dating sites are being bombarded with lots of attention. She gets home from her date with you and there's 5 new emails in her inbox. So some of them become fussier.

 

(2) How well are you connecting with them? You need to banter, but if your dates are all just lighter talk, she will think it was fun but she often won't feel compelled to meet up again.

 

(3) Women especially tend to portray themselves as both more INTERESTING and INTERESTED in their written communication pre-date than they really are. I mean, she is writing you as if you are a friend she is excited to hear from when in reality, she isn't ready to give her home address or even her last name.

 

(4) What is the demographic of the girls you are dating? And do you live in a big city, suburban area, or somewhere rural? Where you live determines how many options you have, versus the options your dates have.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Imajerk17

[Imajerk17]

First of all it's not your "job" to make them feel attracted. They either are right away, will grow attracted or will never be attracted. Stop kissing on the first date and making out on the second. End the first date with a hug and that's it. Why would you even want to kiss a stranger you just met anyway? No wonder it feels "mechanical", the majority of women IMO aren't looking to hop into bed so a second date makeout session isn't the best idea UNLESS you are sure both of you are feeling it. I'd hold oud a seroius makeout session till date 3 at the earliest IMO. Also, learn how to compliment. Don't say I like your dress. Say I like your dress, it really brings out your eyes. Don't over do it but make sure they have depth if you will. Don't rant about yourself or give tons of info about yourself, it may come accross as egotistical. Ask open ended questions, meanig no questions that she can just say yes or no to. That helps get the convo going. Most of all stop thinking so much if they like you because you are there to determine if you like them to remember. Qualify the woman too, it's kind of hard to explain what that is but it shows her (subtly/subconscously) that there are things you are looking for and aren't going to get with just anyone.

 

I don't agree with this. Kissing at the end of the first date is great.

 

I'd save the make-out sessions until you are in private though. There is something about doing it in public with someone you just met, that feels a little tacky.

[verhrzn]

Maybe they think you're a player. Or maybe you're going after a particular subset of girls... there are certain types that are bound to be flaky. Question, what is your type?

[Imajerk17]

Damn, 26 1st dates and no success?

 

BTW, if you are making out with the girls you are doing something right. If you couldn't flirt, a girl would never let you kiss her.

 

Well, yeah. Many guys who got great with women, got so great because they made lots and lots of strike-outs and they learned from them.

 

Actually, 26 dates isn't that many really.

[NeverDated]

Skipping the rest of the post because I think the guys could probably give better insight.

We meet up. Give her a hug. We sit down, make intial small talk about the day/current events. Order our drinks. Get down to talking about common interests. Share stories, crack a few jokes. Order another round, or food. Keep the convo light-hearted and fun, and relevant to our demographic - concerts, festivals, bars/clubs, cool stuff in the city, funny stories, common interests. Kiss goodnight if it went well. Clearly somewhere in this process, I'm not doing enough to make her sexually attracted. Enough to perhaps get a 2nd date 50% of the time. I usually call/text back 2 days after saying "I had a good time, and that we should do it again".

This whole scenario is so...generic. If you're finding girls on OKC, they're going on probably four or five other dates that week. Maybe more. Some of my acquaintances who use it go on 10 or more dates each week, especially if they live in a metro area.

 

And you're doing the exact same thing every single guy on OKC does. Go to restaurant/bar. Make awkward small talk. Buy a drink, order appetizers, tell a non-offensive joke, talk about what you do for a living, talk about what she does for a living, order another drink, wrap it up with a quick kiss.

 

Then, to top the whole thing off, you wait the requisite 48 hours to send a wishy-washy text.

 

You're going on text book dates. It's not that there's anything particularly wrong with you, there's just nothing coming across that's really right - nothing to stand out in memory or really keep you on their mind.

 

Go somewhere unusual or at least meaningful ("we came here for my buddy's graduation party, they have the best [menu item]"), tell potentially/slightly "off color" jokes, start a conversation about something that isn't work/hobbies/education. And please, if you have a good time and want a second date, just assume the sale. Don't "suggest" you do it again - "I had a great time the other night. Next time, let's go [place]. Pick you up Friday at 6?" Her only options at that point are: yes, this day/time works better, or "some other time" [i'm not interested].

[Imajerk17]

Skipping the rest of the post because I think the guys could probably give better insight.

 

This whole scenario is so...generic. If you're finding girls on OKC, they're going on probably four or five other dates that week. Maybe more. Some of my acquaintances who use it go on 10 or more dates each week, especially if they live in a metro area.

 

And you're doing the exact same thing every single guy on OKC does. Go to restaurant/bar. Make awkward small talk. Buy a drink, order appetizers, tell a non-offensive joke, talk about what you do for a living, talk about what she does for a living, order another drink, wrap it up with a quick kiss.

 

Then, to top the whole thing off, you wait the requisite 48 hours to send a wishy-washy text.

 

You're going on text book dates. It's not that there's anything particularly wrong with you, there's just nothing coming across that's really right - nothing to stand out in memory or really keep you on their mind.

 

Go somewhere unusual or at least meaningful ("we came here for my buddy's graduation party, they have the best [menu item]"), tell potentially/slightly "off color" jokes, start a conversation about something that isn't work/hobbies/education. And please, if you have a good time and want a second date, just assume the sale. Don't "suggest" you do it again - "I had a great time the other night. Next time, let's go [place]. Pick you up Friday at 6?" Her only options at that point are: yes, this day/time works better, or "some other time" [i'm not interested].

 

This is actually really good. I agree.

[lso802]

Numbers game. Probably 9 out of 10 ladies I go out with, I don't get the 2nd date.

[thatone]

honestly, and this will make this a 4+ page thread in all likelihood (you're welcome), what's the one thing that doesn't come across in those online dating pictures but does come to mind?

 

the fact that you're 5'7" tall.

 

lots of women obsess over height just like men obsess over boobs. that's life.

 

so firstly, ditch the dating sites. dating websites are for lots of reasons and lots of people, very few of them good. hit the bars, meet and pick up women in person. your game will improve and you'll have better luck in all likelihood.

 

if nothing else, rather than wasting a day or more messaging some random girl only to have her disappear on you after a date or two, you'll get shot down in a minute and have wasted less of your time.

[somedude81]

 

This whole scenario is so...generic. If you're finding girls on OKC, they're going on probably four or five other dates that week. Maybe more. Some of my acquaintances who use it go on 10 or more dates each week, especially if they live in a metro area.

Can somebody remind me to never try online dating?

[mooninite]

First of all it's not your "job" to make them feel attracted. They either are right away, will grow attracted or will never be attracted. Stop kissing on the first date and making out on the second. End the first date with a hug and that's it. Why would you even want to kiss a stranger you just met anyway? No wonder it feels "mechanical", the majority of women IMO aren't looking to hop into bed so a second date makeout session isn't the best idea UNLESS you are sure both of you are feeling it. I'd hold oud a seroius makeout session till date 3 at the earliest IMO. Also, learn how to compliment. Don't say I like your dress. Say I like your dress, it really brings out your eyes. Don't over do it but make sure they have depth if you will. Don't rant about yourself or give tons of info about yourself, it may come accross as egotistical. Ask open ended questions, meanig no questions that she can just say yes or no to. That helps get the convo going. Most of all stop thinking so much if they like you because you are there to determine if you like them to remember. Qualify the woman too, it's kind of hard to explain what that is but it shows her (subtly/subconscously) that there are things you are looking for and aren't going to get with just anyone.

 

Thanks for the feedback. I only kiss on 1st date if I feel it went well on my end and we vibed. Also, I do it simply to get over my shyness and fear. Why not? Also, people have told me some girls find you less confident and lose interest if you don't make a move soon enough.

 

Again, the makeouts have only happened with... 3 or 4 girls? One friend-zoned after 3rd date, one said she was dating someone else after 3rd date, another i never heard back from, and the fourth girl I never called back (i wasn't really attracted to her, just used her for practice and because I was desperate at the time).

 

I rarely give compliments. In fact, could my problem be that I NEVER compliment? When when we've kissed, I kinda just do it. No talking. Alcohol has usually been involved, so its a bit fuzzy, but still. No sappy cheesy lines from me, zero compliments, no emotional language at all on my part. Perhaps I'm being too cold and unappreciative?

 

Well, first of all, thanks for including relevant details here first of all. Anyway, if I counted correctly, you kissed 9 of the 26 girls you went out with. You must be doing something right. My other thoughts:

 

(2) How well are you connecting with them? You need to banter, but if your dates are all just lighter talk, she will think it was fun but she often won't feel compelled to meet up again.

 

(4) What is the demographic of the girls you are dating? And do you live in a big city, suburban area, or somewhere rural? Where you live determines how many options you have, versus the options your dates have.

 

Thanks... I keep a log of all my dates for this very reason

 

2. As I said, my problem is connecting with people. I have a ton of "friends", roomates, more people we hang out with on weekends. But most of it's usually alcohol-centered (street festivals, concerts, parties, happy hours, that kind of thing). No real connections there. I have only 2-3 true people I'd call friends that I converse with on a deeper level. I'm getting sick of it, and most of my social circle, but that's another story in itself.

 

Save a few topics that I'm interested in and get me riled up, I just suck at conversations. I get bored easily, zone out. It's weird... I'm very social, love to be out, I'm always organizing things among our group, active in social meetups.

 

What is banter? I just don't have that skill.

 

4. Demographic. Post-college, twenty somethings. Live in a metro, urban area (no cars, public transit, bike or cab everywhere). Many, many bars local restaurants, and things going on. Crowd is mostly young professional yuppies or hipsters. So for something like OKC and match, a TON of options, especially for women.

[verhrzn]

Thanks for the feedback. I only kiss on 1st date if I feel it went well on my end and we vibed. Also, I do it simply to get over my shyness and fear. Why not? Also, people have told me some girls find you less confident and lose interest if you don't make a move soon enough.

 

Again, the makeouts have only happened with... 3 or 4 girls? One friend-zoned after 3rd date, one said she was dating someone else after 3rd date, another i never heard back from, and the fourth girl I never called back (i wasn't really attracted to her, just used her for practice and because I was desperate at the time).

 

I rarely give compliments. In fact, could my problem be that I NEVER compliment? When when we've kissed, I kinda just do it. No talking. Alcohol has usually been involved, so its a bit fuzzy, but still. No sappy cheesy lines from me, zero compliments, no emotional language at all on my part. Perhaps I'm being too cold and unappreciative?

 

 

 

Thanks... I keep a log of all my dates for this very reason

 

2. As I said, my problem is connecting with people. I have a ton of "friends", roomates, more people we hang out with on weekends. But most of it's usually alcohol-centered (street festivals, concerts, parties, happy hours, that kind of thing). No real connections there. I have only 2-3 true people I'd call friends that I converse with on a deeper level. I'm getting sick of it, and most of my social circle, but that's another story in itself.

 

Save a few topics that I'm interested in and get me riled up, I just suck at conversations. I get bored easily, zone out. It's weird... I'm very social, love to be out, I'm always organizing things among our group, active in social meetups.

 

What is banter? I just don't have that skill.

 

4. Demographic. Post-college, twenty somethings. Live in a metro, urban area (no cars, public transit, bike or cab everywhere). Many, many bars local restaurants, and things going on. Crowd is mostly young professional yuppies or hipsters. So for something like OKC and match, a TON of options, especially for women.

 

What is your type?... Like, what kind of girl do you focus on online? And what are your hobbies, besides drinking and being social?

[Eddie Edirol]

 

the fact that you're 5'7" tall.

 

lots of women obsess over height just like men obsess over boobs. that's life.

 

so firstly, ditch the dating sites. dating websites are for lots of reasons and lots of people, very few of them good. hit the bars, meet and pick up women in person. your game will improve and you'll have better luck in all likelihood.

 

.

 

 

Not only are you 5'7", youre Asian.

 

Did you overstate your height in your profile?

 

If you are dating anyone but Asian women, thats why you arent getting past date 2. I know for sure that most white women, and women who said it on this site, dont date other than white men, with serious intentions because of the differences with their families. Racist families, peers that tell them they should only date white guys. And I mean women with lots of friends and choices, not the ones who are on a dry spell.

 

So if you are a bad kisser, its the final straw in a bunch of red flags, starting with you being Asian.

 

But I suspect more is going on that you dont realize youre doing. There is so much subtle stuff that you are missing, that you could never find out by trial and error, unless youre incredibly astute. I suggest you look up some Pick Up Artist books, just to learn the psychology of women your age, and how to understand what turns women off. They advertise how to get one night stands, but you dont have to read it for that. They will expose you to subtle things that women notice that you wont even know youre doing.

 

For instance, you look like youre trying to hard if you are:

 

 

• Saying her name at all
  
• Focused only on her and not your surroundings
  
• Too much eye contact
  
• Asking too many questions about her (youve been doing good with the convo subjects tho)
  
• Too many compliments (more than one is too much IMO)
  
• Talking about the distant future with her
  
• laughing too much
  
• Cant make her laugh
  
• Trying too hard to keep the conversation going.
  

If your date isnt looking you in the eye, and cant naturally keep the conversation going with you, then you should bail. But if you did or said something to turn them off, they wont want to continue the convo anyway, so you have to figure out where you went wrong.

 

Your girlfriends for some reason are falling short of helping you for some reason. They should be able to tell you what youre doing wrong, but most women dont want to tell you what really works with them, so maybe clothes is all they are good for. or they just might not know how to help you. Not everyone can put 2 & 2 together.

[PlumPrincess]

You really got A LOT of dates. I'm pretty sure that most guys have way less success than you do. I guess, you must be doing something that turns women off. Or you look way, way, way better in your pictures than you do in real life.

[mooninite]

Skipping the rest of the post because I think the guys could probably give better insight.

 

This whole scenario is so...generic. If you're finding girls on OKC, they're going on probably four or five other dates that week. Maybe more. Some of my acquaintances who use it go on 10 or more dates each week, especially if they live in a metro area.

 

And you're doing the exact same thing every single guy on OKC does. Go to restaurant/bar. Make awkward small talk. Buy a drink, order appetizers, tell a non-offensive joke, talk about what you do for a living, talk about what she does for a living, order another drink, wrap it up with a quick kiss.

 

Then, to top the whole thing off, you wait the requisite 48 hours to send a wishy-washy text.

 

You're going on text book dates. It's not that there's anything particularly wrong with you, there's just nothing coming across that's really right - nothing to stand out in memory or really keep you on their mind.

 

Go somewhere unusual or at least meaningful ("we came here for my buddy's graduation party, they have the best [menu item]"), tell potentially/slightly "off color" jokes, start a conversation about something that isn't work/hobbies/education. And please, if you have a good time and want a second date, just assume the sale. Don't "suggest" you do it again - "I had a great time the other night. Next time, let's go [place]. Pick you up Friday at 6?" Her only options at that point are: yes, this day/time works better, or "some other time" [i'm not interested].

 

I try to skip generic bars. If we meet at a bar, I usually pick some place unique. A local fancy wine bar, a local brewery, a mock speakeasy, or some other place with character or drinks that can't be had elsewhere. A fancy gourmet coffee shop.

 

I've done my fair share of other less traditional dates as well - going rock climbing, meeting in a park and drinking mimosas and tossing around a frisbee, going mini-golfing and to the driving range, going to baseball games.

 

I usually call first. If they don't pick up, then I send the text. How long do you recommend I wait then after a 1st date? After a 2nd date? After a 3rd date? Thanks, I will try to be more confident and direct in my message. Instead of asking if they want to meet up again, I'll pretend like it's a given and suggest a new time/place.

 

And believe me, I Never talk about work. I don't give a **** about their number crunching/Excel skills all day, and I'm sure thy don't give a **** about my cubicle adventures. They usually ask what I do for work, I give a one word sarcastic response, and immediately suggest we never talk about work again(but not in a pissed off way... with a smile on my face).

 

Why not hobbies if they are related or common? That's usually one of the things we chat about in our messages online, and the reason I message her in the first place.

 

What kind of off-color jokes? My jokes are very... crude and childish? Ever watch Tosh.0 or South Park? Yea, my humor is kind of like that. I try to steer clear of that on 1st dates.

[wildtrac77]

I kind of feel your pain to be honest. I think I've met about 10 girls in the last 6/7 months. With 7 there was just a first date, one was three dates, one about 6 dates, and one I had a fling with but wasn't really interested in.

 

Thing is, I don't feel that I'm really doing anything differently to what I did a few years ago when my dates were largely successful. But I guess I must be.

 

I can totally relate to the above post..

 

You cant realistically hit it off with every date you go on but the biggest issue with online dating is you can have a really good date, chemistry etc etc and you still get the : im not intrested txt the next day.. even thou if you had meet thru work etc and gone on a date with them and it had gone so well they would go on the 2nd date but as its online its a different story!! hell knows why!!!

 

My 7 online dates since the new year.

 

1 : went for a beer, ended up going back to hers and having sex, keen to see me again then two days later a txt saying she had changed her mind about the 2nd date..

 

2 : meet at her local... no chemistry and her mum/brother and kids turning up half way thru the date fhinshed it, txt her afterwards saying not intrested but hope she finds what she is looking for..

 

3 : meet up for a drink.. got on well, chatted for hours, agreed to meet up again but then got a txt the next day saying she wasnt intrested..

 

4: meet up, date went okay, she was really keen but i defo wasnt.. she came over to mine the next night ( her idea ) chatted, bit of kissing but i didnt fancy her so didnt set up a third date.

 

5 : took the dogs out for a walk, chatted but she was very very nervous, went for a coffee and she sat there rigid... said she hated 1st dates as she gets so nervous.. thought i would go for another date as she was so quiet so txt afterward suggesting it but she txt back saying she wasnt intrested..

 

6 : meet for lunch , chatted for hours after that but got on well but she was very hard work to talk to.. thought i would suggest another date to give it another shot, agreed on a couple of weekends later, txt next day saying i had checked my work diary and the sat she wanted to meet was fine with me as i wasnt working.. txt next day saying : she had a great time but didnt want any further contact..

 

 

7 : went out in for a drink and ended up going to her local after an hour, meet her mates, got on well with her, mates were keen on me and she ended up asking me out for a drink the next night ( bit too fast but couldnt say no, got on great with her, defo chemistry,sat in the pub with my arm around her etc etc, went back to hers for a coffee, chatted for a bit, kissed etc ( just felt right ) but no more, then went home, she txt next morn saying thanks for a great night, couple of txts back and forth with her saying that she would let me know when she could get away from her family meal for that drink, couple of hours later, txt saying she was taking a rain check on tonight , txt back saying a shame but no worrys, not heard from her since ( last weekend).. so no idea on the score with this one!!

 

Out of all of them no 7 we defo got on well and loads of chemistry, if had meet drinking at her local etc it would have defo gone to 2+more dates but as its online it doesnt appear it will...wtf??

 

 

As for the others some okay but not really for me, sods law the one i really like isnt intrested...

[mooninite]

Not only are you 5'7", youre Asian.

 

Did you overstate your height in your profile?

 

If you are dating anyone but Asian women, thats why you arent getting past date 2. I know for sure that most white women, and women who said it on this site, dont date other than white men, with serious intentions because of the differences with their families. Racist families, peers that tell them they should only date white guys. And I mean women with lots of friends and choices, not the ones who are on a dry spell.

 

So if you are a bad kisser, its the final straw in a bunch of red flags, starting with you being Asian.

 

But I suspect more is going on that you dont realize youre doing. There is so much subtle stuff that you are missing, that you could never find out by trial and error, unless youre incredibly astute. I suggest you look up some Pick Up Artist books, just to learn the psychology of women your age, and how to understand what turns women off. They advertise how to get one night stands, but you dont have to read it for that. They will expose you to subtle things that women notice that you wont even know youre doing.

 

For instance, you look like youre trying to hard if you are:

 

 

• Saying her name at all
  
• Focused only on her and not your surroundings
  
• Too much eye contact
  
• Asking too many questions about her (youve been doing good with the convo subjects tho)
  
• Too many compliments (more than one is too much IMO)
  
• Talking about the distant future with her
  
• laughing too much
  
• Cant make her laugh
  
• Trying too hard to keep the conversation going.
  

.

 

I go on dates about 75% with white girls, 25% with my own race. FYI, I'm actually Middle Eastern Asian. Not like Chinese or Korean or something. I live in California, and a metro area. I don't think racism is much of an issue here. Interracial couples abound, whites are themselves not a majority in the city here.

 

I don't overstate my height. I wear dress shoes with an inch heel that actually makes me about 5'8.5"

 

That list seems kind of weird. How is giving too much eye contact and focusing only on her bad? Bad eye contact and glancing around might make you seem either nervous and shy, or just aloof. I never say their name on a date. I can't even remember half the girls' names.

 

Asking too many questions about her? So how then do you talk? Just about yourself? I feel like it's either ask her something, or talk about yourself. But in the convo, I try to keep a balance. She says something, I comment about it, relate a story or something to myself, then ask her something more about it... back and forth.

[NeverDated]

I try to skip generic bars. If we meet at a bar, I usually pick some place unique. A local fancy wine bar, a local brewery, a mock speakeasy, or some other place with character or drinks that can't be had elsewhere. A fancy gourmet coffee shop.

Good start. Do the places have meaning (to you)? Can you take a woman in one and tell her a quick story about why you love it so much? Assuming compatibility, it scores fairly major points if you start showing some personality straight off the bat.

 

I usually call first. If they don't pick up, then I send the text. How long do you recommend I wait then after a 1st date? After a 2nd date? After a 3rd date? Thanks, I will try to be more confident and direct in my message. Instead of asking if they want to meet up again, I'll pretend like it's a given and suggest a new time/place.

If you call, leave a message. Do not text afterward. That's something you do once it's established that she actually wants to talk to you and you need to get a hold of her. There's something inherently obnoxious about the call/no voicemail/text.

 

As far as timeline, play it by ear depending on how well you think the date went and how into each other you are. If she seems super-receptive and you have high hopes for a second date, suggest it almost immediately. As you're leaving, making a tangent comment to steer the conversation to the next date. Or send a text a few hours later in a "so I was thinking" kind of way. If that seems awkward or too soon, it probably is, so just contact when it pops into your head.

 

If it hasn't popped into your head within three or four days, chances are a second or third date is a no go. You're just not that into her. Apply the same rule to dates two and three.

 

And believe me, I Never talk about work. I don't give a **** about their number crunching/Excel skills all day, and I'm sure thy don't give a **** about my cubicle adventures. They usually ask what I do for work, I give a one word sarcastic response, and immediately suggest we never talk about work again(but not in a pissed off way... with a smile on my face).

Brushing it off and suggesting it never be mentioned again, though, makes it sound like you're ashamed or dissatisfied with your job. I'm assuming since you chatted online, she probably knows what you do for a living. So answer her question honestly and concisely, then say something like, 'But I was thinking about that all day. I'd rather think about [tangent onto a totally non-work topic].'

 

Why not hobbies if they are related or common? That's usually one of the things we chat about in our messages online, and the reason I message her in the first place.

Because it's generic. It should be a conversation starter, not the topic of conversation. Usually when people talk about "hobbies" they stick to small talk and inane chit-chat. "Oh yeah, I totally love to knit. I just finished a pair of baby booties for my cousin's son." "Your cousin just had a baby? How interesting! How old is he?" Probably not the way it really goes, but you get the idea. It turns into a talk show interview. Use common interests as a spring board to get her extremely engaged, express her opinions, and don't be afraid to potentially get her fired up and start a little debate.

 

This is symptomatic of the biggest mistake guys (particularly guys who use dating sites) make, in my experience. They shy away from anything that could lead to a potential conflict on the first date to avoid screwing the deal. That's why so many women pass on a second date. There's nothing of substance to distinguish you from the four other guys she's been chatting with.

 

There is nothing worse than sitting politely through a back and forth of totally pointless topics. Even if you 100% disagree on something, she could be enjoying the conversation. Also, eliciting strong emotions is a really good way to get a woman worked up. That is not to say that getting her pissy will get you laid. It just means that, subconsciously, the ability to get her fired up over a topic suggests that, maybe, you have the potential to get her fired up in other ways.

 

What kind of off-color jokes? My jokes are very... crude and childish? Ever watch Tosh.0 or South Park? Yea, my humor is kind of like that. I try to steer clear of that on 1st dates.

Don't shy away from it. If you purposely avoid showing your sense of humor in it's full glory, you're going to come across as bland. Bland is bad, it's not memorable. You want her to walk away with something that makes you stick out. Sometimes, she'll walk away with a bad impression, and that's OK. If your personality doesn't jive with hers, then you don't want to waste any more time on a second or third date. But if it does, you'll stick out more in her mind. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a woman walking away from a date thinking you're a little different that she's used to but is totally willing to give it another try.