Mbw7676 Posted April 10, 2012 Posted April 10, 2012 Hey guys, Im new to here, but like everyone else, I am a soul in need of advice, guidance & support. It's a bit of a story, which I'll sum up the best I can, but to fully understand, u kinda need to know the events leading to where we are now. We have been together 12 yrs, common law married. We had our little one quite early on on relationship, however, we have, for 10yrs, known we were meant for each other, you know when you really just connect with someone & its both ways, ya just know. Anyway, neither of us, nor our families being the religious type, felt that the expense of wedding etc was lower on our priority list, as we knew we loved each other & didnt need the "paperwork" to tell us we were to be together, we had other goals, like buying a house for our new family ( this, despite how we felt about each other, happened quite early, like 10mths into our realtionship, be had a little boy) I was 23 yrs old, but quite mature for my age I think, and she is 5 yrs elder to me. Long story short, she was 120 lbs when we met, after having our son, (1.5 yrs later) the weight just kept piling on her. I love her to no end, always have, but we are honest enough with each other that after a few "sexless" years, I decided I had to mention how i was feeling, ie: physical attraction was diminishing, so I began to give "sutble" hints. This wasnt working, she continued to "grow", as did my resentment to her size. Sometime later, se posed the question, "do you still find me attractive?" At this point, she was 250+ lbs, and honestly, no I wasnt. I made the "mistake" of being straight up and told her this, in the nicest way a guy could, and I believe her self esteem was low enough at this point that the honestly could not ne rationally taken, and that was the beginning of our soap opera. During this "weight gain phase" she was a wonderful caring mother, anything a guy could want, I was the breadwnner, and to advance our family, she took on a 4 yr university degree to become a registered nurse. Myself, & with loans from my father, helped make this dream come true for us. She was the hardest working, best mother/part time worker/FT student you could imagine, and completed with honors. This is where the downward spiral began. She became an ICU nurse right out of school, and made some "new" friends. This friend, was 10 yrs younder than her, bisexual & in a lesbian relationship. My wife became entirly enveloped with this "new friend" despite of her alternative lifestyle, and they became best of friends. Other co-workers warned my wife of this girl as being needy/headcase/issues etc, however she heeded none of this advice. Before I know it, lesbians are holding hands & making out on my deck in front of my son & family, and things got weird. My wife began spending all of her time with her new friends, and her personality began to change. She became dirty, flirtatious and oblivious and defending of her actions, all that mattered was her friends. She spent less & less time at home, began going to clubs, dressing up and coming home at 4,5,6am. Next thing that happened, my wife moves this freind/lesbian into our basement to help her out with a place to live, rent free. This woman makes $80k a year, didnt not need to live in my 5ft ceiling, dank basement! You may think you know where I'm going with this, lesbians etc, but its quite opposite. My wife is not gay, yet this bisexual, promiscuous girl had changed my wife. To sum up, she as I realize Im long winded, she lost 125lbs, began secret emotional/texting/emailing affairs with male co-workers (doctors & male nurses) I began to catch her in lies & secret crushes, but as far as I know, nothing sexual/physical, which we have for the last 2 yrs, argued about on a monthly basis. Keep in mind, in a decade, we have never argued noe have I ever raised my voice at her, until this. Well, I thought the "inappropriateness" was over, and we finally werein a place to finally get married, with the big family wedding etc. In canada we have "shags", basically big organized parties to raise money for the couple to get married. We had ours, 600+ people showed up to support us, including friends & family that flew in from all over to help. It was a huge success, and was the talk of the town. Now heres where it gets real bad. We never had lots of "extra" money until this point, the raised funds were to support the costs of wedding/honeymoon. A fews days later, she began to plan a "xmas shopping trip" with the girls (all in her wedding party, 1 being bridesmaid). This would cost $ from our "shag", but me being in the rebuilding trust phase, ignored my gut and said that after all this, our wedding was in 6mths, there was "no way" and encouraged the trip, and she left. While there, to sum up, they were there for 1 full day, a saturday, the girls went to an NHL game, afterwards, wile out on the street waiting for cab, a group of men approached them, they went with. They drank, had fun. My wife came home on the sunday, at 2am, rather than the 4pm she said, neglected our son, as I was working all wknd, my parents helped her facilitate the trip by watching our son. She came home, and showed me pics of he "awesome guys" they met, this raised a flag,but I maintained my trust, givin the circumstances (shag/impending wedding) and said nothing. Well a few weeks later, it was her staff xmas party, she got drunk, passed out, I stumbled upon text messages to her friend aboutif "they dont like us we wont go" and basically planning a secret trip back t"guys". I confronted her, and after hours of arguing, she admitted to go inviting these "strangers off the street" back to their room, and she had sex with him in the hotel bathroom. I immediately took back my ring, broke off the engagement, and cancelled the wedding, but despite my mind telling me to leave her, my heart is with her.She feels awful, is honest now, answered every question I had, told her family what she did, as well as our 10yr son and is really doing everything one could ever want, but lets be honest, what she did was really awful and selfish,and im having a hard time getting past her actions for the last 2 yrs, we have been going to counseling, as well as her on her own, she realizes the error in her ways, but will I ever get past it, and can it work, or will she do it again. Im on anti depressant now & have been diagnosed with post traumatic stress disorder from all this, yet I'm still by her side. Am I a fool, or am I doing the right thing giving her a 4th chance? please give me your opinions, or ask questions. Thanks for listening!
Andy_K Posted April 10, 2012 Posted April 10, 2012 If you didn't have a kid, would you stay? If a friend told you this, would you give him a slap and tell him to wake up? It's all very well having this romantic notion of being meant for each other, but if she's really your 'ideal match' I dread to think how crappy your life would be with a worse match.
EgoJoe Posted April 10, 2012 Posted April 10, 2012 Did she feel lonely and sad when she was on her back with her legs spread and a total stranger who might have had an STD inside of her? Get rid of her or sacrifice your self-respect and sanity forever. If she really wanted a second chance she'd beg and plead. But she is not doing that because you're being a sap. If you don't stand up for yourself now you will set a bad example for your child. I am truly sorry that you're going through this but at this point you are now enabling this behavior. Maybe she'll change and EARN a second chance later but for now. End it, mourn, grieve and move on. It is the only way you will heal.
Exit Posted April 10, 2012 Posted April 10, 2012 As I read your post, in my mind, things were already going down the wrong road when she started hanging out with shady people, and spending late nights going out on the town. Even without sleeping with someone else I would already be asking if this is the person to marry because of how she was acting. Yeah we've all heard the sob story before of gaining weight and having self esteem issues, but that doesn't mean you go screw someone else. I don't really see any reason to stay with her. All the "she's being honest now, answering questions" doesn't really matter. She wasn't being honest when she made this mistake and if you hadn't found out, she may have never told you. Just keep telling yourself that. She would have married you and lived the rest of her life and probably never tell you. Even the fact that she took some of the money that was supposed to be used for the wedding and used it for this little adventure she went on shows what type of person she is. It shouldn't really just be a cut and dry "do I give her another chance?". She would need to earn it, if that's even possible. Let her answer that question for you, let her prove whether she is worth another chance or not. If you just want to look at it plainly and ask "she cheated, do I give her another chance?" the answer is no. If she works her butt of to repair the damage that she did, then maybe.
Author Mbw7676 Posted April 10, 2012 Author Posted April 10, 2012 She is really trying, I still "snoop" as trust is still f'd, and she is now looking up books on self help, rebuilding reLationships, infedelity etc, so shows me even when I'm now around, she feels terrible & is trying. She is really making a noticeable effort, and I think reverting back to the woman I fell in love with, but I feel I brought up these issues, and she new how much the past "indescrections" we're killing, me, as far as I am concerned, I thought she had been screwing other guys since the beginning, she knew what this would/has done to me, then went ahead & did the ultimate betrayal, then lied about it. She never came clean, I had to catch her. Now, granted, I feel her new found "friends" we're poison, and it took me 2 yrs for her to finally see this. She broke off all contact with the "lesbifriend" as well as her maid of honor, a friend of 28yrs, who I found out was encouraging all this, and helping her hide it, just awful. I can't even Count how many time I smacked a buddy upside the head while out n about, and gave his head a shake, the fact that a friend of hers would do actively partake in f'ing me over, make me question her entire values system & the people she chooses as so called friends. Like I said, they have been out of her life now since, and she now realizes the neagatjvity they have brought to our life/family. Say what willi will about my boys, but none of them are dirtbag enough to let me do something like that, and even if, I would not be alowwed to brag, relish & make ongoing plans with that person. It just raising alot of flags about who she really is, you'll hide things from people u love, but I'm very intuitive & able to read people, and I would never choose to surround myself with such people, and believe me, my friends could be described as "colorful", yet, would do everything in their power to stop something like this from happening, especially my "best man". Let alone condone & encourage infedelity & the destruction of their life. I dunno, I could go on forever, what I do know that things aren't cut & dry, every situation is different-I should also mention, that i did have a one night stand, while out if town for work, she found out te same day I found out about her deal. Main difference for me, it happened when she was her heaviest, I hadn't been layer in close to a year-it lasted 20mi s-I didn't pursue at all, there was not even name exchange, I never contacted her ever again, and 48hrs later, was crying on friends shoulder, realizing the errors in my way, she never knew for 4 yrs, as I didn't think she needed to, that experience for me was a "wake up call" to know that I'd never do that again, the difference for me, is that I would never be capable of doing that, while making wedding plans, nor was there a emotional, emailing connection afterward, I had no intention of seeing her again, nor did I ever want to-that to me is a big difference, the timing, and the lack of any sort of connection on my part. I juts figured id come clean with that
wilsonx Posted April 10, 2012 Posted April 10, 2012 (edited) I saw this a million miles away before you even posted the second post. I like how all the people are here blaming her and her faults. I just sat back and waited for the "whole" truth You cheated, now your mad and have trust issues because she cheated. What comes around goes around. Grow up, work on fixing yourself and your GUILT. Your own guilt is the reason you dont trust her. Your hands aren't clean, so go clean them. You have no right to be this upset and angry at her because you did the same thing. Ill tell you a little secret, she probably sensed this and it ate at her for a long time. It's emotional murder Edited April 10, 2012 by wilsonx
Author Mbw7676 Posted April 10, 2012 Author Posted April 10, 2012 Well I do hear u, however, I dont trust her cause she screwed someone before our wedding, then came home, continued on with this guy, and made plans to go back and do it all again, where was the remorse? She had none until caught. There is a big difference between a one night stand, and having an emotional connection with someone, and if this was the only one, that's be different, she has been moving from one guy to another, with no remorse or regret. How do you text an email the guy you screwed one minute, then make wedding plans with me the next and talk about dresses & wedding party. There was hundreds of texts, and hours/days of time spent on her end, all with no shame or regret. I spent 15mins, and regretted it to no end..Big difference. And btw, our counceller agrees, and saw her self destructive path that began 2 yrs ago, and I didn't move a gay man into my basement & spend every waking moment with him talking about screwing and getting "wet to the knees" about every semi attractive woman that I worked with.
wilsonx Posted April 10, 2012 Posted April 10, 2012 Bull****. There's no difference between a one night stand and an emotional connection. CHEATING IS CHEATING. You lost her emotionally the day you cheated. Since you have never done it before, you lost that emotional connection to her on the one night stand. Your counselor is an idiot. Get your money back. I saw your cheating in your own words in your first post. There has been an emotional disconnect from her, you are just at the want what you cant have phase. You are painting her black. You didn't even man up and kick her out when she started her crap because of your guilt. You continued to enable this behavior by not being a man and crossing your fingers and hoping it would end. FIX YOU. Right now YOU ARE THE PROBLEM, not your soon to be wife or whatever she is. Look in the mirror and say I am the problem what do I need to do to fix me.
Author Mbw7676 Posted April 10, 2012 Author Posted April 10, 2012 Sorry, I disagree. There are many different types of cheating, this is actually proven, that's like saying murder is murder, there are many different types reasons, scenarios & levels. Is kissing someone the same as screwing them? According to you, it is, and that makes no sense at all. The one thing I do believe, is the saying "once a cheater always a cheater" is completley false, I know when I did it, I would never do it again, even tho I "got away with it". I fixed my issues years ago and we have had a good relationship, until she started her new job and lost weight. The issues are rooted in her self esteem, and making everything about her, and how she looks. She needed the attention & affirmation, constantly from other men, to make herself feel better about her image. She's a mother with a child & a family, running around town, hanging with homo's and flaunting yourself & screwing dudes is not normal behavior, no matter what. She was mean to our child, anything to do with the house or family seemed to be a burden as we got in the way of her social life. That is wrong.
Author Mbw7676 Posted April 10, 2012 Author Posted April 10, 2012 Also, She most def heard me "man up" on multiple occasions about her behaviour, she knew if this didn't stop, the wedding would be off and I would leave, she jut got better at pretending & hiding things. I guess im old fashioned, but I believe in staying with the person you choose, especially when kids are involved, and working they your problems, the trouble with society nowadays is that everyone just gives up, kicks the person out or get a divorce, probably cause its much easier than actually persevering and working on things. Love should be unconditional, that's why I'm still here & so is she. Would you kick out your child if they screwed up? We don't have that option, it seems silly doesn't it? Why can people so non-chalantly kick out or leave their spouses, to me, it's probably cause the love wasn't that strong to begin with.
EgoJoe Posted April 10, 2012 Posted April 10, 2012 Love is unconditional. Relationships are not. Attachment is not love. I think that you need to stand up for yourself or she will do it again.
wilsonx Posted April 10, 2012 Posted April 10, 2012 (edited) LOL murder is murder, someone is still dead. Cheating is cheating. 1 night vs 2 years, its still cheating You are emotionally detached from your wife. You are "blaming her" for how you feel and continue to do so. she's not responsible for how you feel, you are. Men don't talk and give ultimatums, we set the wheels in motion with actions to consequences. If you would have kicked her to the curb when it started, she would have never cheated on you because you wouldn't be in a relationship with her and she would have came back. You are still at fault for allowing her to cheat on you and continue to do so. I love my ex unconditionally, I kicked her to the curb when she started this crap, she even agreed it was the right thing to do. I don't blame her for her actions and wanting to go out and date new people , its human. You are just a coward and afraid to face the world alone and look in the mirror at yourself. You continue to blame her and rationalize your mistakes with different levels of association so you can be right and better then someone you say you love. In my book, that's called being a chump Edited April 10, 2012 by wilsonx
Author Mbw7676 Posted April 10, 2012 Author Posted April 10, 2012 Point taken, and I agree, everything in my mind says go, but my heart is withwhet & our family still, and ya, I am scared to be alone, we were about to get married, I've been with her for 12 yrs, i live her parents and her mine, our families get along great, im scared of losing all that, its nit being a "coward" is caring and being a human! Everything was going great for us, this is not how I imagine things turning out. And no, murder is not murder, there's pre-meditated, 1st degree, there's acts of rage or self defense, 2nd degree, manslaughter etc etc. if someone's child was molested by some weirdo, and I found out the father killed that guy, i would be quite ok with it-lol. Making plans, covering up tracks, emails, texts takes thought, it's planned and there is plenty of time to think about what you're doing. Just the fact that they cover things up, shows me that they know what they're doing is wrong yet "choose" to continue and keep it secret and sneak around. There is a difference, I know, and won't be convinced otherwise.
Author Mbw7676 Posted April 10, 2012 Author Posted April 10, 2012 And you're right, I kinda do feel like a chump! Have for a while now. That's not how your partner should make you feel now is it?
EgoJoe Posted April 10, 2012 Posted April 10, 2012 LOL murder is murder, someone is still dead. Cheating is cheating. 1 night vs 2 years, its still cheating You are emotionally detached from your wife. You are "blaming her" for how you feel and continue to do so. she's not responsible for how you feel, you are. (she is responsible for betraying your trust though) Men don't talk and give ultimatums, we set the wheels in motion with actions to consequences. If you would have kicked her to the curb when it started, she would have never cheated on you because you wouldn't be in a relationship with her and she would have came back. You are still at fault for allowing her to cheat on you and continue to do so. I love my ex unconditionally, I kicked her to the curb when she started this crap, she even agreed it was the right thing to do. I don't blame her for her actions and wanting to go out and date new people , its human. You are just a coward and afraid to face the world alone and look in the mirror at yourself. You continue to blame her and rationalize your mistakes with different levels of association so you can be right and better then someone you say you love. In my book, that's called being a chump I've bolded the part I agree with and added one blurb in paranthesis. The rest (in my opinion) is a rant or speculative at best.
dreamingoftigers Posted April 10, 2012 Posted April 10, 2012 Jeez. I am a spouse that was cheated on. You don't seem to own ANY of your own garbage. Its pretty remarkable actually. You did THE EXACT SAME THING SHE DID. You cheated and covered it up and made wedding plans with her. And yet your cheating is "okay" because you "felt guilty" and "will never do it again" and you didn't get caught. Yet because she got caught, and is trying to turn things around you "feel like a chump." Imagine if she found out about your cheating right after you did it! Plus now you can realize that you cancelled your wedding plans with her for the EXACT SAME thing you did to her. And somehow this isn't supposed to be how your partner "makes you feel." She didn't do it to "make you feel" anything. When people cheat, there tends to be some unresolved emotional garbage that they haven't worked out. YOU SHOULD KNOW THIS, YOU CHEATED TOO! It wasn't about you, just like your cheating wasn't about her. Whether or not your RELATIONAL MURDER was any less then hers isn't RELEVANT to THE ISSUE. You are both "criminals" in this sense. You both need to shape up to be pardoned. It seems like she's ahead of the game trying to rebuild the trust, while you look down on her from your pulpit of LIES. Now I do have empathy for you, I truly do: BUT UNTIL YOU STOP VIEWING YOURSELF AS A BYSTANDER TO HER HEINOUS BEHAVIOUR AND A VICTIM ALL-AROUND TO HER CHOICES, there is nothing anyone can do for you. Your post describes how she "moved this person in and did this and did that blah blah." In a RELATIONSHIP, these things are DISCUSSED and AGREED UPON. it they weren't discussed, why not? If they weren't agreed upon, how did the friend end up in your basement? And if the friend ended up in your basement without your agreement, how did you react to reassert yourself? If you didn't a) discuss b) agree or c) reassert.... Why not? And if you did all 3, then there isn't anything to complain about, right? You've flipped from victim, to rescuer to bully in relation to your gf (?) in less then half of a dozen posts. That means that you dont handle conflict too well, until you learn some more assertive communication (as opposed to passive, aggressive, or passive-aggressive) NO healthy relationship will occur or hold out. Should you give your gf a 4th chance, should she give you a second? You guys have a lot to figure out it seems. Hopefully you go to an adequate counselor.
Author Mbw7676 Posted April 10, 2012 Author Posted April 10, 2012 Agreed, however, I dont agree with it being the "exact same thing". I have lied about 1 thing, only 1, she has had lie upon lie upon lie, getting caught then lying again. I wasn't about to hop in my car & drive 10 hrs to go continue on with an affair, how you people don't see that as different is beyond me, any friends I talk to about it always wince and sigh at the "making plans to go back part", That's the problem, you can really see the difference in posts from people who have been cheated on, way more judgemental & lopsided-anyway, my main issue is how can I trust she wont do it again, I know for a fact I wont, she has breached my trust time & time again now, then finally during our wedding plans. Never did I say what I did was right, but I didn't have multiple different flings, affairs & secrets, there gets to a point when everything in your life becomes lies when youre always up to no good. And yes, we did discuss the "lesbifriend" moving in, I guess I'm just too nice a guy & was kinda blinded & caught off guard, I wanted to help her, but didn't stop to think how assainine it was? Another part I me also thought that by this girl living with us, maybe she'd go out less & id see my wife more often...this obviously wasn't how it turned out. Ya, you guys are right, I wasn't hard enough & shoulda left in the 1st place rather than setting myself for this to happen, shoulda seem it coming, I actually kinda did, but I started ignoring my gut & best instinct which I will never do again. We do have lots to get thru, things are going great with us now, it's been 4 mths now, it's starting to get easier, and we have lots of healing to do, but as crazy as it sounds, I know she's the one for me, or at least I'm just stuck on that ideal I had of her before things changed?
dreamingoftigers Posted April 10, 2012 Posted April 10, 2012 You've been cheated on too and seem to have the same judgments. I would guess that without any real consequences for her, she probably did figure that it was "no big thing." Just like you figure your incident isn't at this point, because you have made it RELATIVE to what she has done. Just like in your court example: they don't adjust the standards just because someone has done worse now. They aren't going to adjust Paul Bernardo's sentence because Robert Pickton killed more people. One guy might have done it more times, shockingly so, but it's still a sign of a MAJOR problem. I think without looking into (more in-depth) how you guys handle your conflicts, cheating will occur on BOTH ends. I say this because I have considered it/come close to it simply because my husband was so indulgent and I felt I could justify it. Frankly without seeing the LS forum and the glaring consequences in my face everyday, I could've compartmentalized it and done it, only feeling bad that I crossed that personal line for me. Not guilt towards my partner. If she is active in the cheating world, it isn't hard to just say: "fuvk it, I find this person attractive and there isn't a damn thing stopping me." A few books that really helped: After the Affair How to Improve Your Marriage Without Talking About It 7 Principles for Making Marriage Work
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