Why do guys get put into the friendzone?

[fishtaco]

What exactly is the lie?

 

"Let's just be friends" is a way of saying "I'm not interested in dating you." How could it be interpreted as possible interest?

 

This may be a case of "man speak" and "woman speak", but misunderstanding does not mean that the other was lying.

 

It sounds like you want a direct "I'm not interested in dating you", but that can be HARD for a person to say to someone yout like as a person, and don't want to hurt. So you cushion it, and respond with a positive instead of a negative: Let's just be friends. And if the guy agrees, we assume that he is ok with just being friends--as we are.

 

It is technically a lie. But I, along with many other men that have learned the system, understand that it is one of the industry standard phrases for turning people down.

 

While I agree with dasein, my stance is a bit different from him.

 

I say ladies, go ahead and do your thing. I don't believe in telling women... don't do this or don't say that. "Let's be friends" if you want. "I'm currently not looking to date" if you want. Or simply vanish if you want. It doesn't matter one least bit. Instead I believe in educating the men to handle these situations.

 

So yes, it is technically a lie, but who cares? In fact, I've used these same phrases on women before. And I fully expect them to understand what it really means. That's right, I've told the same lie, and you know what? I've done much worse things than that. All is fair in love and war. I will deal with any situation any woman throw at me. Therefore I don't feel the need to hold anything back when it's my turn to throw stuff.

 

Learn the system, and learn how to deal with it. That's what I believe in, for both men and women.

[counterman]

I've never seen a guy take it badly when a woman was upfront with him before, but that's because I've never heard any accounts where the woman was direct; it was always 'let's just be friends' or 'I'm not looking to date now'. However, I have had a few woman who were upfront with me and I appreciated it. It was a real breathe of fresh air. In saying that, I do understand that some guys might not take it so well and I understand some girls think being direct is harsh.

 

Although I prefer women to be upfront, it's up to them what the decide to say or not say, and how they go about it. If I get the 'let's just be friends' line or anything similar, I pretty much know she isn't interested in dating. It did bother me when I first started out dating and didn't know anything at all but now, I just take it as it comes.

[somedude81]

I've never seen a guy take it badly when a woman was upfront with him before, but that's because I've never heard any accounts where the woman was direct; it was always 'let's just be friends' or 'I'm not looking to date now'. However, I have had a few woman who were upfront with me and I appreciated it. It was a real breathe of fresh air. In saying that, I do understand that some guys might not take it so well and I understand some girls think being direct is harsh.

 

Although I prefer women to be upfront, it's up to them what the decide to say or not say, and how they go about it. If I get the 'let's just be friends' line or anything similar, I pretty much know she isn't interested in dating. It did bother me when I first started out dating and didn't know anything at all but now, I just take it as it comes.

I've had a couple of girls directly tell me that they were not interested or didn't like me that way, and I honestly told them I appreciated their bluntness. Saved me a lot of time and effort of trying to get to know them better and see what they think of me.

[betterdeal]

I wonder, how many of the men who take offence at being offered friendship actually have any male friends, and how many of them have sisters? Seems any sign of liking or affection is grasped at and held onto desperately. I can understand in the heat of the moment being disappointed, but surely that, as well as the feelings of lust, can be let go of?

 

What confuses things a lot for men is when women treat them like close female friends, confiding intimate stuff in them. Of course, one can just say "I'm not comfortable with this", but often men feel obliged to listen because it's a friend; whereas male friends tend to rarely pour their hearts out so when they do, it's probably a really tough time for them, so an ear is lent; but with women, their ability to emote and express at the same time makes it much easier for them to rattle off loads of deep stuff. Most men aren't tuned to do that and their minds tend to drift to more interesting things, like cars and boobies, in much the same way women glaze over and think about, erm, I dunno, when a man is getting enthusiastic about narrow gauge railways or removing galvanised seat posts using caustic soda.

 

Essentially, in most cases, a friendship between a man and a woman is best conducted as if everything said and done is done in public. Getting too close can stir the loins of one or other for all the wrong reasons at the wrong time and leave both perpetually confused, and it is that confusion that more often than not makes men puff their chests out and get all huffy.

[somedude81]

To me it's basically,

 

"You're good enough to be my friend, but not good enough to sleep with."

[xxoo]

To me it's basically,

 

"You're good enough to be my friend, but not good enough to sleep with."

 

To her, yes.

 

So what?

 

Obviously it is difficult for you, sd, being friends with a woman while not having a gf. I suspect that the situation would look very different if you had a gf. You wouldn't be micro-analyzing which other women think you are good enough to sleep with.

[somedude81]

To her, yes.

 

So what?

Because it's an insult. She's only willing to accept me as an asexual being. Denying who I am as a man.

 

And the whole offering friendship thing is just trying to sugarcoat it.

 

Obviously it is difficult for you, sd, being friends with a woman while not having a gf. I suspect that the situation would look very different if you had a gf. You wouldn't be micro-analyzing which other women think you are good enough to sleep with.

If I had a GF, I would be fine having platonic female friends. And I wouldn't be trying to offer myself as a man to them. You're right that I wouldn't care if X girl didn't want to sleep with me as long as I already had my GF.

[xxoo]

Because it's an insult. She's only willing to accept me as an asexual being. Denying who I am as a man.

 

She has to be willing to sleep with you to respect you as a man?

[somedude81]

She has to be willing to sleep with you to respect you as a man?

Of course.

 

If I'm coming to her as a man wanting to sleep with her; her not wanting wanting to sleep with me denies my masculinity.

 

This only applies to women I am sexually interested in. If I just want to be friends with a woman, I don't approach her as a man, just a person.

[xxoo]

Sexual attraction and respect are very different things, for men and for women. They can overlap, but often don't.

[betterdeal]

This only applies to women I am sexually interested in. If I just want to be friends with a woman, I don't approach her as a man, just a person.

 

And if she wants to have sex with you, you're denying her her femininity. What goes around comes around.

[jobaba]

What he's saying is women who claim friends first do as a cowardly way to not have to tell a guy she isn't interested or use it as a way to just get attention from men.

 

The reality is if a Ryan Reynolds clone on match.com pops up in her daily matches, that "friends first" stuff goes right out the window & her rules change.

 

Nobody is paying $50 every 3 months on match.com to find platonic male friends. Not when Meetup.com has 100's of different social groups & designed exactly for that.

 

 

Also, I've wasted my time on more than a women who say they only date friends then I don't hear from them for a week or two & all of a sudden they are in a relationship with a super hot guy they just met.

 

It happens more often than not.

 

Yea. It's pretty funny.

 

I have a friend who is really good looking and has a girlfriend. And a lot of the female friends I've introduced to him have announced proudly after meeting him one or two times, "I'd date him if he were single!" All the meanwhile, they don't even consider me (when I was single) or other currently single guys I've introduced them to.

 

I mean, if I see a real pretty girl, I'm not really thinking of dating her. She's just pretty, that's all. I could definitely take a cute or even average girl instead which would be a path of lesser resistance and be just as happy. But most women seem to want the very best looking guys.

 

I've never heard of a woman meet a real cool guy who is average looking after 2 times or so, and be like, "I'd date him!"

 

But I'm like that. So there must be women out there like that. I know there are. I know a few. They are the minority. But I have a friend like that. I've never heard her say, "Wow, that guys hot!" She'll say, "Yea, he's good looking" in a matter of factly kind of way.Ironically enough, she dates the guy I referenced in the first paragraph.

 

Because it's an insult. She's only willing to accept me as an asexual being. Denying who I am as a man.

 

And the whole offering friendship thing is just trying to sugarcoat it.

 

 

If I had a GF, I would be fine having platonic female friends. And I wouldn't be trying to offer myself as a man to them. You're right that I wouldn't care if X girl didn't want to sleep with me as long as I already had my GF.

 

It could be worse.

 

If she offers you friendship, and is sincere about it, at least she respects you as a person.

 

You would rather her completely ignore you while she befriends and chases other guys who are better looking than you?

 

If I had a TRUE female friend who was REALLY into me (never happened), not only would I try my best to consider a relationship with her... if I couldn't, I would offer her friendship.

 

SHE is the one who is going through the ordeal in this situation. So SHE is the one who decides if she can handle the situation or not. Not me.

 

If I cut contact with her right then and there, it's saying, "I'm not attracted to you, nor do I respect you as a person."

[TheFinalWord]

Surely when a guy get's put into the friendzone, it's not because he acted too much like a friend, didn't flirt enough, didn't make a move early on, etc. Surely it would've just happened anyway? Surely it means that the girl just isn't attracted to you/lost attraction for you, and isn't anything to do with what you have done or haven't done when being around her?

 

Couple of reasons in my experience:

 

1) The guy isn't fun/exciting: boring conversation, no humor, too neutral with opinions. I really think that besides physical looks (the intensity of how much this matters varies from woman to woman), humor is critical for staying out of the friend zone. If you can make her laugh that is going to be key. Girls really dig a sense of humor. If not, she won't feel excited to be with you and she will never be able to picture herself on your arm. You have to activate her imagination bro. Girls are big into that. Can I "see" this guy in my future. Is this a guy who can keep my interest? They are much more future oriented than we are when choosing a mate. We're instant, if the woman is attractive and we have common interests with us we dig ya.

 

2) Too aggressive: You exhibit signs of being controlling or jealous before having rights.

 

3) Not aggressive enough. There's a fine line between letting the woman's emotions develop for you and waiting too long to get physical with her (not just sex, but kissing, i.e. physical contact that suggest sexual attraction).

 

There's a window of opportunity between 2 and 3. Messing this up is normally why a guy gets put in the friend zone. With the second one, you get insecure guys who don't give the woman time to process her emotions. With the third one you get the nice guy who doesn't want to push her too much.

[somedude81]

Sexual attraction and respect are very different things, for men and for women. They can overlap, but often don't.

Hmm, it does seem like a bit of a stretch that if she isn't sexually attracted to me, she's disrespecting me.

 

That's why I'm fine if a girl is blunt and tells me that she's not interested.

 

It's the whole offering a consolation prize. No, I don't want a lollipop, it was supposed to be for you.

And if she wants to have sex with you, you're denying her her femininity. What goes around comes around.

How the heck did you come to that conclusion?

Yea. It's pretty funny.

 

I have a friend who is really good looking and has a girlfriend. And a lot of the female friends I've introduced to him have announced proudly after meeting him one or two times, "I'd date him if he were single!" All the meanwhile, they don't even consider me (when I was single) or other currently single guys I've introduced them to.

 

I mean, if I see a real pretty girl, I'm not really thinking of dating her. She's just pretty, that's all. I could definitely take a cute or even average girl instead which would be a path of lesser resistance and be just as happy. But most women seem to want the very best looking guys.

 

I've never heard of a woman meet a real cool guy who is average looking after 2 times or so, and be like, "I'd date him!"

Scum.

 

They'd probably do him even when he's with his GF.

It could be worse.

 

If she offers you friendship, and is sincere about it, at least she respects you as a person.

 

You would rather her completely ignore you while she befriends and chases other guys who are better looking than you?

Of course.

 

If she doesn't want me, I don't care what she does. I'm done being friends with women who aren't going to return my interest.

If I had a TRUE female friend who was REALLY into me (never happened), not only would I try my best to consider a relationship with her... if I couldn't, I would offer her friendship.

 

SHE is the one who is going through the ordeal in this situation. So SHE is the one who decides if she can handle the situation or not. Not me.

 

If I cut contact with her right then and there, it's saying, "I'm not attracted to you, nor do I respect you as a person."

I'd do the same.

 

Though the odds of me acctually turning down a female friend are infinitesimal. I've never actually had a female friend that I considered undatable.

 

But if for some reason I saw her that way, I would cut contact with her. Contact and time spent together will just give the other person hope. I've been there enough times to understand.

[GoodOnPaper]

Because it's an insult. She's only willing to accept me as an asexual being. Denying who I am as a man.

 

And the whole offering friendship thing is just trying to sugarcoat it.

 

I completely agree. That said, do I think women put guys in the friendzone in order to insult them? Probably not -- there's likely just a gap between intention and perception. She's trying to express something positive, I perceive that "I'm not good enough."

 

 

She has to be willing to sleep with you to respect you as a man?

 

Not necessarily, but I think those of us who take being put in the friendzone the hardest consider attraction and sex as a very deep -- if not the deepest -- level of acceptance. Unfortunately, when it comes to reciprocating attraction, there are just two answers:

 

Yes = I'm really into you

No = I'm not into you at all and I can't imagine why any woman would be

 

For me to accept being "friends", there would need to be some kind of middle answer that means something like "I'm not into you that way but I see why some women would".

[zengirl]

Aggressive guys, oh the friendzone people are probably on the same end as the "nice guy" people. These men here women like you say "I don't lke aggressive guys" and they try to turn themselves in to these castrated version of themselves. Very pitiful. They need to be as aggressive as they can when it comes to sex. Tap into that more animal side start playing by the rules of attraction not conducting a date like its a friendship or job interview.

 

I read the rest of your post as well, but will only quote the parts where I had more to add.

 

To the bolded: This is a problem, true. The men who do that were never really aggressive guys to begin with. Also, I think people fail to understand the difference between assertive (sexy to me and almost every woman) and aggressive (some girls DO find it sexy---to me, it's an instant turnoff). Making basic moves or asking someone out directly or expressing what you want does not = being aggressive. Not at all. Aggressive guys are essentially macho. Alpha types. That's never been my bag. It is some girls.

 

What those guys do, though, isn't turn from aggressive to assertive, but become severely passive-aggressive or just plain passive. Neither of those are attractive, especially PA which is what you see more of.

 

The idea that "SD wants to be the girl" is as silly to me as the idea that "I was the man." The man does not NEED to be the one who gets a dating situation going, though not that many women will (and the women who will have a distinct advantage, especially if they're also attractive) so men probably need to be willing to do that. Unless they have other things going for them. I also know men (not players but guys who are in LTRs constantly) who've always been chased and never had to chase a girl -- they have a lot going for them and are very much BF material in a general sense. Most of my male friends are this way -- they were not necessarily BF material to me b/c of compatibility issues, etc, but they are guys who find relationships easily, generally without looking.

 

I think it comes down to this: Guys who get friendzoned constantly are not BF material to those girls who FZ them and perhaps not to the majority of girls if it is consistently happening. And they certainly aren't casual sex material (which, for most girls I know, is EXTREMELY hard criteria to meet and very dependent upon timing).

 

Agressive in the right way means going after what you want full force being yourself.

 

I would call that assertive, unless "yourself" is someone with strong machismo or something and an aggressive personality. Everyone should be assertive and go for what they want! (Women, too.)

 

But thats not what I was talking about. These guys pervert the idea of sex. They seperate it from friendship.

 

Ah, okay. Well, it's the square rectangle thing I said. Friendship is not sex. And, frankly, sex is not friendship. But the two can certainly meet, and generally do in love.

 

So you'd go to a dinner or out drinking with a guy friend even though you're married? I mean its on thing to have friends at work you guys get lunch or office gossip... but more than that I'd be jealouse. No dinners, or hanging out at his place watching "movies" or what ever.

 

As I said, most of my friend outings in general are mixed company. Hubby is also invited, though he doesn't always come, pretty much all the time (the exceptions being bridal showers or something for the girls or I do have one specific club that doesn't let you bring non-members every time but he'd never come to that anyway). The only really close friends I'd see one on one. . . well, there's a married couple I visit without hubby pretty often, and they're both really good friends. I sometimes see my friend K (a girl) without hubby a lot, because she lives really near us and I just go over her place. I have 2 close male friends I'd probably have dinner with alone if they came into town, but they don't live here. One of them is the brother of my (dead) HS sweeteheart and was almost my BIL; he really is like a brother to me. The other one is married to a friend of mine, but he was my friend first. I set them up.

 

I mean, I guess if I just met some random dude and started hanging out one-on-one for no reason, it'd seem weird. How many social outings do you have 1-on-1 anyway? Male or female?

 

I've never seen a guy take it badly when a woman was upfront with him before, but that's because I've never heard any accounts where the woman was direct; it was always 'let's just be friends' or 'I'm not looking to date now'. However, I have had a few woman who were upfront with me and I appreciated it. It was a real breathe of fresh air. In saying that, I do understand that some guys might not take it so well and I understand some girls think being direct is harsh.

 

If it was a friend or someone in my social circle, I would generally feel compelled to be direct. I live my life with extreme honesty -- I don't think a let down is dishonest, really, but it wouldn't be extreme honesty. I am generally honest even with strangers (now I always am -- I just say I'm married) but I've been cussed out loads of times, had guys try to convince me to change my mind, etc. I've also been thanked for my honesty. It varies.

 

To me it's basically,

 

"You're good enough to be my friend, but not good enough to sleep with."

 

That's exactly what it means (if y'all sincerely do become/are friends), but it doesn't deny your maleness, as you see it. It doesn't deny that you ARE a sexual being or a man. She just doesn't want to have sex with you. I think denying someone's essential maleness ("You're just like one of the girls!") or femaleness ("Come be one of the boys!") is wrong, personally, but not all women want to have sex with all men or vice versa. A female friend is no more denying your maleness than a male friend is, just by not having sex with you. The implication that "wanting to have sex with someone," and "seeing them as a man," are one and the same makes no sense -- women don't want to have sex with most men they meet.

 

And you don't HAVE to be friends by any means. A girl that expects a man who is interested in her will become her friends is silly; a girl that offers it, particularly if it started as a friendship, is not trying to insult you though. She's trying to give you a way to gloss over this whole incident and go back to the way it was.

 

Honestly, if you ask out a stranger you have no social ties to the first time you meet her, and she says LJBF, that's. . . weird. I don't know any women that do that. There are some hard-up women who will hang out with you a few times, hoping to feel chemistry, sometimes, and call it "friends." That's a shame too. But I don't think it's a lie to the guy, more to themselves.

Edited April 11, 2012 by zengirl

[xxoo]

For me to accept being "friends", there would need to be some kind of middle answer that means something like "I'm not into you that way but I see why some women would".

 

That makes sense to me, GOP.

 

Would you believe them if they told you that?

[GoodOnPaper]

That makes sense to me, GOP.

 

Would you believe them if they told you that?

 

Maybe -- I guess I'll find out if someone ever does tell me that . . .

[RedRobin]

I can't speak for anyone else... but the biggest reason I 'friendzone' a guy is because I'm not physically attracted to him, but he is a good person.

 

If he's not a good person, he doesn't qualify as anything. I have developed physical attraction to men I've gotten to know over time.

 

FTR, I've had the opportunity to go after the super hot guy, high wage earner, alpha type but passed more than a few times. I'm not into 'high maintenance' relationships with men and I have better things to do than constantly swat away competition for him.

 

If he's in my circle of friends/family/co-workers... and I hear that he has some significant compatibility/lifestyle similarities, I may go after him. Otherwise...meh... too much work.

 

Also, I don't do well with either the passive-aggressive or super-aggressive types. Either one feels controlling and dishonest. The ones who can calmly, sincerely discuss and demonstrate their goals and needs are the ones I'm interested in.

 

The other reason I'd friendzone a guy is if he is a good person, but our lifestyle and goals are incompatible. Like, if he was not looking for a serious relationship and wanted to just date around. That's not my style. Those guys tend to disappear pretty fast though. They don't tend to have legitimate female friends.

Edited April 11, 2012 by RedRobin

[wwwjd]

here's a wrinkle: I've put two girls into the friend zone. They started out as friends, got to know me and wanted more, I told them up front we would just be friends. At some point later in, they let me know they wanted to "Date" or grow the relationship, I had to say no. We maintained a friendly friendship, while they dated around and eventually got married.

 

There was never ANY sex involved, maybe occasional short friendly hello hug. That said, I'm male and they were sexually attractive BUT I stayed away from relationship due to all the other factors in their lives that negated possible relationship: kids, smoking, drinking, ideals, goals etc etc etc

[wwwjd]

I have developed physical attraction to men I've gotten to know over time.

 

This. If it exists in ONE PERSON, it DOES exist. Seems many people don't believe, don't understand this developmental process.

[ThaWholigan]

This. If it exists in ONE PERSON, it DOES exist. Seems many people don't believe, don't understand this developmental process.

We live in an era of instant gratification. A significant portion of people get turned off if there isn't like, immediate fireworks or chemistry happening in as short a time possible. This is not true of everyone, or even a vast majority, but many we will encounter regardless.....

[RedRobin]

We live in an era of instant gratification. A significant portion of people get turned off if there isn't like, immediate fireworks or chemistry happening in as short a time possible. This is not true of everyone, or even a vast majority, but many we will encounter regardless.....

 

...or they'd rather let their hormones make decisions for them....

 

I was guilty of that when I was younger. Not so now.

[xxoo]

Of course attraction can grow between people.

 

But will it grow between any two people? That is another question.

[zengirl]

Of course attraction can grow between people.

 

But will it grow between any two people? That is another question.

 

Yes, it is the expectation it will grow that is unhealthy.