Why do guys get put into the friendzone?

[veggirl]

Friendzone. Sigh. Why in the world would someone WANT to be friends with someone who is romantically attracted to them? I don't want to be friends with guys who wanna date or sleep with me, so I don't friendzone them, I reject them and carry on without contact. Why the need to keep them as friends is beyond me. It's awkward, but self-serving in a way. Not my thing, at all.

[zengirl]

See this "I sincerely hope none of them are pining for me" so naive. Why would you even bother yourself with that. First off they very well might find you hot and say to themselves "given the chance I'l have some fun with her" but also at the same time say "she's married I have no plans to try anything." Does that make sense?

 

Sure, finding me hot and pining for me would not at all be the same thing. I hope that they first and foremost, as my friends, like me as a person and not for my hotness or lack thereof, and I believe my male friends do. I don't want men who hang around because I'm hot (that'd be an orbiter) but I don't expect my male friends to find me physically repulsive. Does that make sense?

 

In the end boundaries need to be kept. It's the only real thing holding them back.

 

Well, same sex relationships require boundaries too. The boundary of sexuality and romance is really an easy one, IMO, comparative to other boundaries in a friendship. Not one I think much about, really. I don't know where you get the idea I'm anti-boundary. I'm constantly talking about asserting boundaries on this site, I feel like.

 

What I don't feel like is all men are just secretly aching to have sex with their female friends and trying to do so constantly to the point where they're eschewing sincere friendship. I know many men who value women as people. Of course, that does not entail never appreciating or noticing if they're hot (nor does it for women). I had a convo with betterdeal above where we distinguished "having thoughts" and "having a fixation." The two are very different.

 

I feel the FZ happens when a man falls into the naievity of how women think about friendship. If they think about friendship as a man then they'll never be in the friendzone. Women are afraid of rejection and losing friendships etc. Thats not the man way. We make friends for friends and chase women for their beauty which of course includes more than just a body.

 

I think women make friends for friends too in many cases, and that was my point. I think there are many reasons to socialize (fishtaco pointed out how you can befriend someone to help you in your romantic life in general, and there are also ways friends can help your career, network, etc) but when we're talking about our real group of friends, I think we all want people we can just appreciate as people. I do not think women have the mindset of collecting male friends, except those who keep orbiters, which are a very small % of the women I know and see on LS and everywhere else. I'm sure many men meet this type of women because. . . they have to get all these orbiters from somewhere. . . but that inflates the numbers.

 

I think if a man believes such nonsense as a female friend is just like a guy friends same exact boundaries and ideas yes he destroys himself mind, body and soul.

 

Hmm. . .I think a female friend can be just as much of a friend as a male friend. I have found that all individuals require a unique set of boundaries, personally.

 

Can you illustrate what you mean here with an example?

 

Its really the common thread in all these loser guys they don't undertand how to interact with women. I find it so sad when I see these guys going into 30 never even having kissed a girl yet they're talking about asking their attractive girl "friend" for advice.. heck maybe would she be kind of enough to go on a practice date with him..... JUST ASK HER OUT SHE'S THERE GIVE IT A GO AND FCK that friendship!

 

You see what I'm saying there. No you probably don't but thats ok.

 

Sure. I agree with you on the "Just ask her out!" if they're interested. I say that all the time in these threads. Practice dates are weird, etc. We agree on all that stuff, I think.

 

Yes gaius this has a lot to do with it. These kind of guys also put pussy on the pedestal so for them arguining with a woman something their doormat mind couldn't handle in real life is like going to church and crying out to god why why me.

 

The pedestal effect is a real problem. I speak to that a lot too. I don't think you and I have such different views as you think on this (on politics, let's not get started, but on this ).

[jobaba]

Friendzone. Sigh. Why in the world would someone WANT to be friends with someone who is romantically attracted to them? I don't want to be friends with guys who wanna date or sleep with me, so I don't friendzone them, I reject them and carry on without contact. Why the need to keep them as friends is beyond me. It's awkward, but self-serving in a way. Not my thing, at all.

 

Because romantic feelings fade, and a good part of the reason (at least for me) for being attracted to the person is because they are a good/great person.

 

If/when my current girlfriend and I break up, I'll make effort possible to keep her in my life until the end of my life.

 

She's really a great woman with a great heart. She's overcome a lot and I'm going to see her through and make sure she makes it. People like her don't come around often and I'm not just going to dump her like that because we f@cked...

[dasein]

Friendzone. Sigh. Why in the world would someone WANT to be friends with someone who is romantically attracted to them? I don't want to be friends with guys who wanna date or sleep with me, so I don't friendzone them, I reject them and carry on without contact. Why the need to keep them as friends is beyond me. It's awkward, but self-serving in a way. Not my thing, at all.

 

This is pretty much how millions of mature people look at it. As for the others, who knows why they would cling to such?

[veggirl]

Because romantic feelings fade, and a good part of the reason (at least for me) for being attracted to the person is because they are a good/great person.

 

If/when my current girlfriend and I break up, I'll make effort possible to keep her in my life until the end of my life.

 

She's really a great woman with a great heart. She's overcome a lot and I'm going to see her through and make sure she makes it. People like her don't come around often and I'm not just going to dump her like that because we f@cked...

 

Okay, well that's a fabulous thought in theory. In practice, I think you'll find it rather difficult to be great friends with someone you've had a serious romantic R with.

 

This is pretty much how millions of mature people look at it. As for the others, who knows why they would cling to such?

 

Attention I guess.

[dasein]

Lemme ask you something VG, because you and I disagree and agree equally here on LS and I respect your opinion, have you had problems with the "friendzone" in your dating and relationship history? Why or why not? What would solve these problems in your opinion?

[jobaba]

Okay, well that's a fabulous thought in theory. In practice, I think you'll find it rather difficult to be great friends with someone you've had a serious romantic R with.

 

 

Yes, that's true. But I think at least trying is a good idea.

 

I am friends with one of my exes and we don't see each other that often, but she's a different animal. I don't think nearly as highly of her character.

 

People do things differently. People wonder why I carry female friends (just friends) when I'm a single guy. My answer is ... I can talk a lot easier with them and have more fun with them than a lot of guys.

 

Guys are idiots. They are uncommunicative and can't talk about a lot of stuff.

 

For a lot of guys, if they have no women to chase, or women to talk about, they have nothing to talk about with each other. This is a LOT of guys.

[veggirl]

Lemme ask you something VG, because you and I disagree and agree equally here on LS and I respect your opinion, have you had problems with the "friendzone" in your dating and relationship history? Why or why not? What would solve these problems in your opinion?

 

Well, I guess I am not sure specifically what you are asking, I don't friendzone people. I have had male friends who then made a pass at me or started trying to get sexual and I said no and let them go to the wayside. TBH I've never been one for male friendships, I am much more interested in being friends with other females. I don't really have a desire for friends who are guys. They all, seriously ALL, have tried to get sexual with me, so I don't bother anymore. If I'm not going to date a guy, he really isn't in my life, it's not worth the awkwardness that I have *always* found happens to me.

 

So, I solve the problem by having girl friends There's nothing I can't get out of those friendships that I would get from male friendships IMO.

[xxoo]

Friendzone. Sigh. Why in the world would someone WANT to be friends with someone who is romantically attracted to them? I don't want to be friends with guys who wanna date or sleep with me, so I don't friendzone them, I reject them and carry on without contact. Why the need to keep them as friends is beyond me. It's awkward, but self-serving in a way. Not my thing, at all.

 

Sometimes it is because you find out about the romantic interest long after establishing a real friendship.

[dasein]

Well, I guess I am not sure specifically what you are asking, I don't friendzone people. I have had male friends who then made a pass at me or started trying to get sexual and I said no and let them go to the wayside. TBH I've never been one for male friendships, I am much more interested in being friends with other females. I don't really have a desire for friends who are guys. They all, seriously ALL, have tried to get sexual with me, so I don't bother anymore. If I'm not going to date a guy, he really isn't in my life, it's not worth the awkwardness that I have *always* found happens to me.

 

So, I solve the problem by having girl friends There's nothing I can't get out of those friendships that I would get from male friendships IMO.

 

That's a very balanced perspective, I feel it's more representative of adult reality than the alternative, trying to carry on faux friendships with people who may have their feelings involved. Do you resent not being able to have male friends at all? or that they see you only as sexual potential? or accept that part of nature as just the way it is?

 

Have you had men who "don't take no" and try to hang around in the background even while you are in a relationship? How do you deal with those? Have you had men whom you knew were sexually attracted, yet were afraid or hesitant to express it to you? What % were these of men who tried to get with you roughly? Does that behavior of theirs tend to kill your sexual attraction to them if any attraction on your end existed, or not or depends on other factors? I know that's too many questions.

[ThaWholigan]

Well, I guess I am not sure specifically what you are asking, I don't friendzone people. I have had male friends who then made a pass at me or started trying to get sexual and I said no and let them go to the wayside. TBH I've never been one for male friendships, I am much more interested in being friends with other females. I don't really have a desire for friends who are guys. They all, seriously ALL, have tried to get sexual with me, so I don't bother anymore. If I'm not going to date a guy, he really isn't in my life, it's not worth the awkwardness that I have *always* found happens to me.

 

So, I solve the problem by having girl friends There's nothing I can't get out of those friendships that I would get from male friendships IMO.

Much in the same way that the majority of my friends are male. I have some female friends too, but they are acquaintances and as much as I enjoy being around them, I tend not to be around them as much. Not for any particular reason, I'm just not around them much.

[KR10N]

Surely when a guy get's put into the friendzone, it's not because he acted too much like a friend, didn't flirt enough, didn't make a move early on, etc. Surely it would've just happened anyway? Surely it means that the girl just isn't attracted to you/lost attraction for you, and isn't anything to do with what you have done or haven't done when being around her?

Well, I know I couldn't date someone I just met. I would much rather be a friend w/ someone before dating. That way we can cut loose together w/ our friends, which is important that he likes my friends & vice verse. And so I can see what type of person he is around others.

[jobaba]

That's a very balanced perspective, I feel it's more representative of adult reality than the alternative, trying to carry on faux friendships with people who may have their feelings involved. Do you resent not being able to have male friends at all? or that they see you only as sexual potential? or accept that part of nature as just the way it is?

 

Have you had men who "don't take no" and try to hang around in the background even while you are in a relationship? How do you deal with those? Have you had men whom you knew were sexually attracted, yet were afraid or hesitant to express it to you? What % were these of men who tried to get with you roughly? Does that behavior of theirs tend to kill your sexual attraction to them if any attraction on your end existed, or not or depends on other factors? I know that's too many questions.

 

It's not about maturity.

 

It's just a different way to do things.

 

When you are 60 years old and wrinkled and out of shape, will you care who you are sexually attracted to or not, or will you pick friends based on their character?

 

You really think cutting every person out of your life who you are attracted to is the only way to do things?

Edited April 10, 2012 by jobaba

[ThaWholigan]

It's not about maturity.

 

It's just a different way to do things.

 

When you are 60 years old and wrinkled and out of shape, will you care who you are sexually attracted to or not, or will you pick friends based on their character?

 

You really think cutting every person out of your life who you are attracted to is the only way to do things?

Welcome to the magical world of black-and-white.

 

Dasein has good points otherwise, although if I'm friends with a girl I'm sexually attracted to, it's usually not a big deal for me. Most of my female friends are attractive in some way, that doesn't mean I'm gonna simp after them like a little bitch . Learned my lesson

[veggirl]

Not too many questions I've never given this much thought TBH, just kinda done me and what works, so it's interesting to think about it more deeply.

 

Do you resent not being able to have male friends at all? or that they see you only as sexual potential? or accept that part of nature as just the way it is?

 

I don't resent it because I truly don't desire it. My BF, dad, brothers in law, male co-workers...that's enough of a male presence for me. I don't think guys *only* see me as sexual potential but I don't think men are gonna approach me unless they see some sexual potential and that is their motivation for wanting to befriend me. I mean, I can see an opposite sex friendship forming organically from work or mutual friends, but that would be a slow process and it doesn't happen for me.

 

Have you had men who "don't take no" and try to hang around in the background even while you are in a relationship? How do you deal with those?

 

Yes. I've gotten the "your BF doesn't need to know" type of stuff. Actually it's usually been pretty blatant, not backgroundy at all! I had a guy email me a few months ago, actually, and I know his intentions. I wrote back and said I have a BF so we won't be hanging out. There is a backstory to that, though. Anyway I've never seen "orbiters" hang around as it sounds others do on LS. Maybe it's a vibe I give off that discourages it, lol, I don't know. It's never been a huge issue--usually the ones that've been hanging around are ones I've previously dated or whatever.

 

Have you had men whom you knew were sexually attracted, yet were afraid or hesitant to express it to you? What % were these of men who tried to get with you roughly? Does that behavior of theirs tend to kill your sexual attraction to them if any attraction on your end existed, or not or depends on other factors? I know that's too many questions.

 

Well, I've had guys be less direct than others when expressing interest, but usually I think they're fairly straight forward. It's prob been since college that I thought a guy was interested but too shy to express it. I wasn't turned off by that, I was frustrated though cause I was too shy to approach myself Lose-lose for that situation! A guys directness doesn't kill attraction or add to it, for me. I know for lots of girls, that's not true though.

[xxoo]

So, I solve the problem by having girl friends There's nothing I can't get out of those friendships that I would get from male friendships IMO.

 

Except that people are individuals. I've only made a dozen or so really good friends (the kind that will drop what they are doing and help you, as you would for them) in my adult life. Some of those are men.

 

One of those, during his divorce, confided to me "If only you were single...." Well, I wasn't single. Furthermore, I wouldn't date him if I were single. But I just changed the subject, and he moved past the divorce and his interest in me. He remarried, and we are still friends.

Edited April 10, 2012 by xxoo

[jobaba]

Welcome to the magical world of black-and-white.

 

Dasein has good points otherwise, although if I'm friends with a girl I'm sexually attracted to, it's usually not a big deal for me. Most of my female friends are attractive in some way, that doesn't mean I'm gonna simp after them like a little bitch . Learned my lesson

 

That's just the way dudes are.

 

I have thought of having sex with just about every one of my female friends.

 

They range the gamut from what other men would call pretty, to cute, to not attractive at all.

 

(Interestingly enough, the only ones I haven't pictured having sex with have really bad/shallow personalities).

 

It doesn't mean I have feelings for them and thus I can completely handle being friends with them. Having feelings is different from wanting to screw. I have wanted to screw probably most of the young women I have come across in my life. I have had feelings for 3 ... maybe 4.

[zengirl]

Except that people are individuals. I've only made a dozen or so really good friends (the kind that will drop what they are doing and help you, as you would for them) in my adult life. Some of those are men.

 

Yes, that is how I feel. Additionally, my circle has just always had some men and some women. A lot of people on here seem to hang out with their friends more individually? There are only a few people I actually see 1-on-1 and even then, it's a rarity. My friends are usually seen in clusters, many of which have men and women in them, couples and singles, gays and straights, etc.

 

Of my very close friends, there are just so few. How many people do you get very close with? Not that many. Especially not if you move around a lot, like me. I have 2 very close male friends. Obviously, if they'd hit on me straightaway, I would've cut contact where possible (without excluding other friends), but after a decade of friendship, I cannot imagine that, unless they were persistent or seemed really fixated on dating me or something inappropriate. I don't see that being an issue, though.

[veggirl]

Except that people are individuals. I've only made a dozen or so really good friends (the kind that will drop what they are doing and help you, as you would for them) in my adult life. Some of those are men.

 

One of those, during his divorce, confided to me "If only you were single...." Well, I wasn't single. Furthermore, I wouldn't date him if I were single. But I just changed the subject, and he moved past the divorce and his interest in me. He remarried, and we are still friends.

 

I know people are individuals. I'm sharing what works for ME on a whole. I don't care what other people do.

 

Me, I wouldn't be "friends" with a guy who said "if only you were single". That would make me feel uncomfortable and is disrespectful to my relationship with my BF!

 

Again, I think many times people use the word friend when perhaps "acquaintence" would be more appropriate.

[somedude81]

Friendzone. Sigh. Why in the world would someone WANT to be friends with someone who is romantically attracted to them? I don't want to be friends with guys who wanna date or sleep with me, so I don't friendzone them, I reject them and carry on without contact. Why the need to keep them as friends is beyond me. It's awkward, but self-serving in a way. Not my thing, at all.

I don't know why women do it.

 

If a girl liked me and I did not return the feelings, I would not offer to be her friend. In fact, I wouldn't want to spend any time with her at all. I'm not going to risk giving her any hope.

 

As for why I've been friends with girls who liked but turned me down. It was a way to still be around them and make her my pretend GF. I realize it's a stupid thing to do but I was lonely and willing to try anything to get her.

[ThaWholigan]

That's just the way dudes are.

 

I have thought of having sex with just about every one of my female friends.

 

They range the gamut from what other men would call pretty, to cute, to not attractive at all.

 

(Interestingly enough, the only ones I haven't pictured having sex with have really bad/shallow personalities).

 

It doesn't mean I have feelings for them and thus I can completely handle being friends with them. Having feelings is different from wanting to screw. I have wanted to screw probably most of the young women I have come across in my life. I have had feelings for 3 ... maybe 4.

 

Agree, I've had so many fantasies about my female friends, that it's just normal to me, I don't even dwell for more than a couple of minutes . Still, I only had feelings for one of them, but recently I worked that all out .

 

Again, I think many times people use the word friend when perhaps "acquaintence" would be more appropriate.

 

This^^^^^ is so on the money

 

Except that people are individuals. I've only made a dozen or so really good friends (the kind that will drop what they are doing and help you, as you would for them) in my adult life. Some of those are men.

 

One of those, during his divorce, confided to me "If only you were single...." Well, I wasn't single. Furthermore, I wouldn't date him if I were single. But I just changed the subject, and he moved past the divorce and his interest in me. He remarried, and we are still friends.

 

Same. But as much as people are individuals, we can't vouch for the behaviour of other guys and girls, as we don't know people's realities, and the kind of attention the get, the way they choose to handle it and their lives etc......

[xxoo]

Me, I wouldn't be "friends" with a guy who said "if only you were single". That would make me feel uncomfortable and is disrespectful to my relationship with my BF!

 

Again, I think many times people use the word friend when perhaps "acquaintence" would be more appropriate.

 

It made me uncomfortable for that conversation. But we'd been friends (not acquaintances) for over 5 years at point, and 10 years since, without any issue. He was at a low point, and I cut him some slack. My H was informed, and unmoved (as he should be, because he knows I have no interest in the guy beyond friendship)

[dasein]

You really think cutting every person out of your life who you are attracted to is the only way to do things?

 

Yeah, if there are two people, one has sexual feelings that the other doesn't share, the only viable alternative is to part ways, for a good long time if not forever. Any other way is alternatively naive or selfish. Spend the time one would have spent on faux friendships cultivating options that could lead towards a full human relationship and away from frustration and disappointment. How's that for a positive outlook?

 

Age has no bearing on the truth of this, it applies at 20 and 80. Now if you want to come up with a "desert island" analogy? My response will be that we don't live on desert islands and there are more than enough people out there to befriend where sexual attraction won't be an issue.

[zengirl]

There goes this entire "person" thing again. What wrong with recognizing some one for being a "guy" or "girl." It's unrealistic to expect gender blindness.

 

I am a woman, and I am a person. I'm not necessarily discussing gender blindness when I say "whole person" or personhood -- it's just that I don't link my femaleness to EVERYTHING about me. Perhaps you link your maleness to everything about you? Is that what you mean? I know men who don't.

 

Of course, I'm not offended at all if I'm recognized as a girl. I mean. . . my user name even says girl!

 

Also I get the sense you probably are quite attractive and nothing wrong with a male friend enjoy that. He's lame though if he has some long drawn out master plan to wait out your husband or something else. These guys you see on here always make up lies in their mind about how eveil the girls bf or what ever is. Its just all so lame.

 

Sure. I follow you.

 

I'm not expecting you to understand how these guys minds work I mean I can't even say I truely do... but as a man I feel I have a better insight and you're way off base. How? Well you're looking at as a woman thats clear and thats good for you. But it fails to see where this comes from.

 

I'm going off of what the posters on here who do say about why they do it. It appears to be a combination of a fear of rejection and a desire to be around their "dream girl" even if as a friend. SD's last post is pretty much what I thought in summary of why men do this. As to why women do it, I think it's either: 1.) They were already friends or friendly and the woman feels twice as bad rejecting his friendship again after rejecting his advancement, 2) The woman is not assertive enough to turn the man down completely, and keeps trying to hang out with her, and 3) The woman keeps orbiters as ego-validation. There are also probably some other reasons.

 

I've honestly never had an orbiter or been in this situation. I think it's because I made it very clear if I was into a guy (when I was single), I'd ask him out or go out with him in a heartbeat if he expressed interest. And I find more subdued male interest still easy to spot. I know many women who have a hard time with that, to be honest. They are used to dating aggressive guys. I don't like aggressive guys and never dated them.

 

Yes same sex relationships do require boundaries but its a lot different. thats all I want acknowledged. So if a guy having problems with girls thinks of friends with girls as just another friendship then they fail to understand how it all works.

 

I suppose this is true for people who are not used to relating to the opposite sex, in general. I think it's honestly much less true for people who are used to having friends of both genders AND who are successful in relationships and used to the dynamic that carries. No friendship ever substitutes or carries the dynamic of a relationship for me -- I know women who use their gal pals as surrogates when they cannot find a relationship, and I find that as unhealthy (to me) as using a male friend. I would not be comfortable with that level of intimacy and closeness -- sexuality aside -- even in a same-sex relationship. Does that make sense?

 

To me, the boundaries are honestly less about sex. Those are EASY boundaries. Intimacy boundaries seem to be harder for people, and I don't necessarily use different intimacy boundaries for men than women. For me, it's family/relationships and friends that makes the difference.

 

Well heres the thing you can be sincere friends with some on you're fcking. I mean its not unusual to enjoy some one sexualy and then have some deep conversation or what ever afterward. So they just need to get out of this "girls are friends" mind set.

 

Yes girls can be good friends but if you're looking for a date then thats not you're focus. Also for when you do have a gf you're going to bring drama to the relationship if you think you can just be buds with some girl. I mean sure she's your friend just no private conversations, private hangouts or other non needed things etc. Like say hi to her at work or what ever. Don't invite her for drinks afterward like shes on of the guys.

 

Of course, you can have sex and be friends. Hubby and I have sex and are friends (as well as family and lovers and much, much more). I would never have sex with someone who was just a friend or outside of a LTR so maybe that's why I cannot understand what you're really trying to say here?

 

Hubby and I both have female and male friends, respectively, and it brings us no drama. We know each others' friends, but that's true of both genders. I don't do too much private hanging out with most of my friends, but that's just because of limited time! I'd much rather hang out with friends together in group settings. It's more fun.

 

Women have this very rightious "I thought you were a friend" or what ever. Guys shame themselves into being some little bch friend to a women really sad. Does that make the girl bad maybe but really the blame needs to go on the guy.

 

As for career etc yes we live in a world of men/women so you might want to network with the other half. This idea of "friends" though means a lot of things. I mean wtf is facebook friend? exactly.

 

True. As I said, we often say "friends" when we mean "friendly."

 

If someone gets uppity about another person expressing romantic interest. . . hmm. . . it depends. If the person with the interest expresses in in an entitled way ("Well, you're single, and you like me, so why won't you go out with me?") OR actively hides it, I think some righteousness is reasonable. Otherwise, no. Honestly, I put the blame -- always -- on the person who knows the relationship disparity (the one who wants more is the only one who can say if they can still truly be friends without him/her wanting more).

[jobaba]

I don't know why women do it.

 

If a girl liked me and I did not return the feelings, I would not offer to be her friend. In fact, I wouldn't want to spend any time with her at all. I'm not going to risk giving her any hope.

 

As for why I've been friends with girls who liked but turned me down. It was a way to still be around them and make her my pretend GF. I realize it's a stupid thing to do but I was lonely and willing to try anything to get her.

 

Some respect you as a person and genuinely do want to be friends.

 

Others do it for various reasons.

 

Either they can use you as an emotional tampon, use you to take them places or give them things, or use you because they know you admire them and thus pump up their ego.