Why do guys get put into the friendzone?

[somedude81]

None of us want you to go through that again.

 

But you adored her, and thought she was wonderful. You said she was honest about not wanting a romantic relationship, and you had fun together. Do you now think that she was selfishly disrespecting you?

As much as I did adore, her I did feel disrespected by her only being able to accept me as an asexual person. And her no longer being able to pretend I was asexual is why she ended the friendship.

 

It isn't about blaming her, or you. The point is that the only way you can avoid going through that again is realizing what choices you made to get in that situation. She couldn't put you in the friendzone, where you willingly pined for her for 2 years. You stepped in there yourself.

The choice was either, friendzone or GTFO.

 

Both were bad options, but I chose what I did and I don't regret making that choice.

That acknowledgement isn't blame. It is control. If you accept that, you take control of your life. You stop being the victim.

It's not that simple.

 

I didn't choose to fall for her. If I could have, I would have removed all my feelings for her and just be friends. I actually hate developing feeling for girls because I always end up getting hurt.

 

And again, I didn't have any control whether she fell for me or not. It just happened that she didn't, regardless of how good of a match we were.

 

I don't know if I'm a victim or not, but I certainly don't have much control over what happens in my life.

[dasein]

Okay then, besides gender roles not being stuck in the 1950s, and personal taste being more freely accepted these days, and much longer adolescenthood generally, I can vaguely see your sperm is cheap and babies are dear point, so to improve the comparison, change sex to, a stable, safe, secure, plentiful home and it still just doesn't follow that her femininity is denied by him not pleasing the far greater, more important component of the human female psyche as defined by you.

 

yeah whatever... no. Give it up, it's not apt. The mirror logic trick works great with laws and rights, not with vaginas and penises.

[TheBigQuestion]

Writing -> Papers -> Rant.04

 

When this particular article started circulating around the internet, I was still in high school. Even back then, I thought it was complete horse****. Perhaps my opinion on these matters puts me more in line with the LS orthodoxy than usual, but that doesn't matter. That article, any lamenting over the friend zone, and any "nice guys finish last"-esque whining is a bunch of mamby-pamby nonsense that only serves the purpose of further isolating and marginalizing the chumps that find themselves in those situations.

 

With that said, I absolutely believe that women need to be held to a higher standard of honesty and accountability when it comes to all aspects of the friend zone (women generally can get away with more in the context of romantic relationships just by virtue of being women). I agree with dasein that women utter phrases like "lets just be friends" to protect their own feelings rather than to avoid hurting anyone else's. It's disappointing (as usual) to see so many female regulars here essentially excusing sugarcoating and dishonesty in these matters.

 

Overall, I just fail to see why friendzoning is worthy of so much societal debate. It's one of the few gender-war-type issues that get discussed in places other than LS, and it's dumb. The entire issue can be sidestepped very, very easily. As a guy, you avoid getting friendzoned by NOT being the type of guy in that link above. You avoid getting friendzoned by adopting a mentality of abundance (i.e. "there's plenty of fish in the sea") so you don't fixate on female friends as your romantic/sexual targets. You do this by dumping the toxic leeches who use you as an emotional tampon the second that type of behavior rears its ugly head.

[xxoo]

I don't know if I'm a victim or not, but I certainly don't have much control over what happens in my life.

 

More than anything else, I hope you can shift perspective on this one point!

[betterdeal]

yeah whatever... no. Give it up, it's not apt. The mirror logic trick works great with laws and rights, not with vaginas and penises.

 

Brilliant response! Such clear logic and rationale.

[TheBigQuestion]

I got friendzoned ONCE as a 10th-grader and that was enough to know what not to do with female friends from then on. How clueless does one have to be to keep touching the hot stove and not learning a lesson? If women as a gender won't change, if society won't force them to change, you adapt. Period.

[Eddie Edirol]

I didn't choose to fall for her. If I could have, I would have removed all my feelings for her and just be friends. I actually hate developing feeling for girls because I always end up getting hurt.

 

And again, I didn't have any control whether she fell for me or not. It just happened that she didn't, regardless of how good of a match we were.

 

I don't know if I'm a victim or not, but I certainly don't have much control over what happens in my life.

 

You have all the control over your life, you just dont want to. So youre not a victim, you just dont know what youre doing. You can control who you fall for if you keep some things in mind. #1 being the reason guys get friendzoned is because you made it obvious that you had feelings for her, before she had feelings for you. Thats a major red flag and turnoff. Thats the way it always happens. If you make it a point to distance yourself from her while getting to know her, you can avoid getting fully attached until at least she sleeps with you (when you know for sure she wants some kind of relationship with you.)

[verhrzn]

More than anything else, I hope you can shift perspective on this one point!

 

Slight branch-off topic: why should we feel like we have control in our lives? We do to a certain extent, but there are lots of things we CAN'T control... like who finds us attractive. What traits we were born with. Other things, we can only control to a certain extent, like how much money we have (what job we get, which is based off where we can live, our education, our innate talents, etc.)

 

Is it ever acceptable to say "nope, I don't have any control over my dating life"? Cause honestly, within the last few months, I've felt the only control I have is to give up. And that seems more like an illusion of control than the real thing.

[betterdeal]

I didn't choose to fall for her. If I could have, I would have removed all my feelings for her and just be friends. I actually hate developing feeling for girls because I always end up getting hurt.

 

I suggest this is more about how you manage your feelings than it is about girls. The sooner you can manage them better, and detach your sense of self (or your masculinity as you put it), from how you feel, the better for you. You'll be able to look better at the situation in front of you and respond better, and consequently achieve more of the outcomes you want to.

[KR10N]

To me it's basically,

 

"You're good enough to be my friend, but not good enough to sleep with."

I saw this and just had to respond. Basically, what you're saying is that any woman who isn't interested in having sex w/ you is disrespecting you? I'm slightly confused. If a man was only interested in having sex w/ me I'd feel disrespected because he's only viewing me as a sex item instead of a human being w/ feelings. Initially, I respect people for who they are and the things they do for others.

 

She has to be willing to sleep with you to respect you as a man?

Yeah, I'm confused as to what somedude81 actually means.

 

Of course.

 

If I'm coming to her as a man wanting to sleep with her; her not wanting wanting to sleep with me denies my masculinity.

 

This only applies to women I am sexually interested in. If I just want to be friends with a woman, I don't approach her as a man, just a person.

Sex does not equate your manliness.

 

somedude81, aren't you a man all the time? Don't you have respect for others? I thought that's what being a man was about, the same goes for women. How you treat others defines you as a person.

[dasein]

gender roles not being stuck in the 1950s

 

No one said they were.

 

, and personal taste being more freely accepted these days,

 

??

 

and much longer adolescenthood generally

 

??

 

, I can vaguely see your sperm is cheap and babies are dear point

 

??

 

, so to improve the comparison, change sex to, a stable, safe, secure, plentiful home and it still just doesn't follow that her femininity is denied by him not pleasing the far greater, more important component of the human female psyche as defined by you.

 

??

 

Brilliant response! Such clear logic and rationale.

 

yeah.

[BeyondtheClouds]

You have all the control over your life, you just dont want to. So youre not a victim, you just dont know what youre doing. You can control who you fall for if you keep some things in mind. #1 being the reason guys get friendzoned is because you made it obvious that you had feelings for her, before she had feelings for you. Thats a major red flag and turnoff. Thats the way it always happens. If you make it a point to distance yourself from her while getting to know her, you can avoid getting fully attached until at least she sleeps with you (when you know for sure she wants some kind of relationship with you.)

 

That makes a lot of sense. Some people do want to back off when the other person is coming on strong.

[Eddie Edirol]

That makes a lot of sense. Some people do want to back off when the other person is coming on strong.

 

worse than that, people feel their date backing off, and push further, when they dont know what they are doing, making the situation worse.

[verhrzn]

worse than that, people feel their date backing off, and push further, when they dont know what they are doing, making the situation worse.

 

The best thing is to drop them at first sign of disinterest.

[somedude81]

LOL so you cant show interest or disinterest.

 

I wish Relationships and Dating was a major at universities.

[KR10N]

That makes a lot of sense. Some people do want to back off when the other person is coming on (*too) strong.

This...

 

LOL so you cant show interest or disinterest.

...it would scare the hell out of me.

 

*Sorry I added to your quote, BeyondtheClouds.

[xxoo]

Slight branch-off topic: why should we feel like we have control in our lives? We do to a certain extent, but there are lots of things we CAN'T control... like who finds us attractive. What traits we were born with. Other things, we can only control to a certain extent, like how much money we have (what job we get, which is based off where we can live, our education, our innate talents, etc.)

 

Is it ever acceptable to say "nope, I don't have any control over my dating life"? Cause honestly, within the last few months, I've felt the only control I have is to give up. And that seems more like an illusion of control than the real thing.

 

We can't control others. Since dating involves relationships with others, no, none of us have complete control over dating.

 

But we can control what we will and will not accept. And we can control where we focus our attention and energy.

 

Moving your focus away from dating for a while does not need to mean "giving up". It can be a positive choice to focus on something else right now--something that builds you up rather than tearing you down. And that change in focus could result in you ending up in a place where dating is much more fulfilling.

[verhrzn]

We can't control others. Since dating involves relationships with others, no, none of us have complete control over dating.

 

But we can control what we will and will not accept. And we can control where we focus our attention and energy.

 

Moving your focus away from dating for a while does not need to mean "giving up". It can be a positive choice to focus on something else right now--something that builds you up rather than tearing you down. And that change in focus could result in you ending up in a place where dating is much more fulfilling.

 

But that's what I meant by the illusion of control. Giving up on dating wouldn't give me control... guys would still refuse to date me. It just means I'd stop noticing/caring.

 

I am also confused how a change in focus-hey I'm not gonna care about dating!-would suddenly make dating MORE successful or fulfilling. Since when does NOT focusing on a goal mean you achieve that goal??

[somedude81]

This...

 

...it would scare the hell out of me.

 

*Sorry I added to your quote, BeyondtheClouds.

I was mainly refering to Eddie Edirol's "#1 being the reason guys get friendzoned is because you made it obvious that you had feelings for her, before she had feelings for you."

 

So a guy can not make it obvious that he is interested and he must also be sure to show that he is not disinterested.

 

! What the hell then is a guy supposed to do?!

 

Trying to get a girl seems like the most complicated thing in the world. It's stupid how difficult things are.

[xxoo]

But that's what I meant by the illusion of control. Giving up on dating wouldn't give me control... guys would still refuse to date me. It just means I'd stop noticing/caring.

 

I am also confused how a change in focus-hey I'm not gonna care about dating!-would suddenly make dating MORE successful or fulfilling. Since when does NOT focusing on a goal mean you achieve that goal??

 

It won't happen suddenly.

 

Currently, dating is dragging you down. It is a vicious cycle downward, growing more discouraged and pessimistic, and becoming less attractive in spirit.

 

Shift your focus away. Focus your attention and energy on activities and interests that build you up. You will slowly build more confidence, grow happier, and be more fun to be around. You might be surprised to find that, when you were focusing on other things, you've met some great men who are interested in the "new and improved" Verhrzn.

[KR10N]

I was mainly refering to Eddie Edirol's "#1 being the reason guys get friendzoned is because you made it obvious that you had feelings for her, before she had feelings for you."

 

So a guy can not make it obvious that he is interested and he must also be sure to show that he is not disinterested.

 

! What the hell then is a guy supposed to do?!

 

Trying to get a girl seems like the most complicated thing in the world. It's stupid how difficult things are.

But how is a woman suppose to have interest in you if she doesn't know you? A man coming on too strong can just scare a girl away. And I think some men do it more than they think. It happened to me once and I had only just met this guy, he was following me around like a puppy... well, more like a wounded squirrel. It didn't even last for him to become 'friendzoned'.

[xxoo]

I was mainly refering to Eddie Edirol's "#1 being the reason guys get friendzoned is because you made it obvious that you had feelings for her, before she had feelings for you."

 

So a guy can not make it obvious that he is interested and he must also be sure to show that he is not disinterested.

 

! What the hell then is a guy supposed to do?!

 

Trying to get a girl seems like the most complicated thing in the world. It's stupid how difficult things are.

 

Show her that you are interested, but don't act (or be) fixated on just her.

 

If you aren't even dating, she hasn't earned your adoration and fixed attention. You should still be flirting and showing interest in many women, not just her.

 

So when you are hanging out with her, you might flirt sometimes....but you'll also flirt with the other girls in the group. If she gets jealous, she should make herself available to you as a girlfriend. Then, and ONLY then, she gets exclusive rights to your attention.

[somedude81]

But how is a woman suppose to have interest in you if she doesn't know you?

That's what I'd like to know.

A man coming on too strong can just scare a girl away. And I think some men do it more than they think. It happened to me once and I had only just met this guy, he was following me around like a puppy... well, more like a wounded squirrel. It didn't even last for him to become 'friendzoned'.

 

I'm not talking about coming on too strong. Only just letting the girl know I'm interested.

 

I have never done anything that can be interpreted as coming on too strong, but apparently I've let too much interest be known.

 

I don't know what to do anymore.

[AD1980]

What about if you dont have any single wome in your social circle and only meet random women you approach?

 

Then you have to come on strong to to speak and cant wait to plant seeds and play it cool

[somedude81]

Show her that you are interested, but don't act (or be) fixated on just her.

 

If you aren't even dating, she hasn't earned your adoration and fixed attention. You should still be flirting and showing interest in many women, not just her.

 

So when you are hanging out with her, you might flirt sometimes....but you'll also flirt with the other girls in the group. If she gets jealous, she should make herself available to you as a girlfriend. Then, and ONLY then, she gets exclusive rights to your attention.

Now things are starting to make sense.

 

I thought my head was going to explode.