confused2314 Posted April 9, 2012 Posted April 9, 2012 (edited) Hey, Firstly I just want to thank rejected_lost, SilverBlueAndGold and CarrieT for answering on my post here "http://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/breaks-breaking-up/321158-how-do-i-know-if-she-cheated" You guys confirmed my suspicions and I investigated further. At first my wife denied it but I used psychology to get to the truth. I basically said, I believed her but did he ever ask her for sex. She laughed and said all the time. I acted like I was amused and having a laugh at the whole thing, I said That guy is such a slut isn't he, she laughed. I then asked if he ever asked for a hand job or blow job -> she laughed again and said yes. I looked her straight in the eye and said "Did you ever give him a blow job or hand job", she went red then looked down at the table with a guilty grin on her face. After a minute she said yes. She changed the subject and strangely I felt complete emptiness inside. I saw my hands starting to shake so I said I am going out to get an icecream and does she want one. In the car I broke down and screamed. Now I feel empty again because I have NEVER been through anything like this before. I feel betrayed and hurt. I even lent the other guy DVD's through Jen and she lent my Pickup vehicle to him a couple of times. I know that for the past three years I have been mentally ill with OCD and we haven't been intimate that much - but at the start of our marriage we PROMISED each other that if there is ever another man or women and intimacy with them, we will divorce first and be completely honest about it. i have been completely faithful to her the whole time. I believe she may be having an affair with her boss at work now but I need to investigate that too. One day when she went to work (and I had a day off) she accidentally left her mobile phone at home and it ran, I rang to grab it because I thought it was her calling me but missed but it was from a private number and they left a message. Thinking it still might have been my wife I checked the message it was a guy I hadn't heard before and he said "Hi it's me, call me" in a sort of sultry manner. With LOTS of investigation I found out that it was her boss - you do not speak to your employees that way. She said something cryptic to me about a kiss with him after she admitted about the vanilla sex with the other guy. I think this may be a way for her to absolve guilt by only partially admitting something may have happened. I don't know what to do. I think I have to separate now. I feel empty inside but I know that is because I don't know how to take this and it is going to come flooding out later. My hands are shaking. I need to check though, is vanilla sex like a blow job and a hand job for another man considered cheating in a marriage? I feel betrayed but she indicated 'that is not sleeping with someone or cheating'. I have a strong feeling she HAS actually slept with the above guy now though. Please advise, what are your thoughts? Edited April 9, 2012 by confused2314
oldguy Posted April 9, 2012 Posted April 9, 2012 is vanilla sex like a blow job and a hand job for another man considered cheating in a marriage? OF COURSE IT IS! I am truly sorry for what your going through but the reason you feel like ***** about what she did was because IT IS wrong. 1
Bellechica Posted April 9, 2012 Posted April 9, 2012 Yes it is considered cheating. Sorry this has happened to you.
ISurvived Posted April 9, 2012 Posted April 9, 2012 Hey, Firstly I just want to thank rejected_lost, SilverBlueAndGold and CarrieT for answering on my post here "http://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/breaks-breaking-up/321158-how-do-i-know-if-she-cheated" You guys confirmed my suspicions and I investigated further. At first my wife denied it but I used psychology to get to the truth. I basically said, I believed her but did he ever ask her for sex. She laughed and said all the time. I acted like I was amused and having a laugh at the whole thing, I said That guy is such a slut isn't he, she laughed. I then asked if he ever asked for a hand job or blow job -> she laughed again and said yes. I looked her straight in the eye and said "Did you ever give him a blow job or hand job", she went red then looked down at the table with a guilty grin on her face. After a minute she said yes. She changed the subject and strangely I felt complete emptiness inside. I saw my hands starting to shake so I said I am going out to get an icecream and does she want one. In the car I broke down and screamed. Now I feel empty again because I have NEVER been through anything like this before. I feel betrayed and hurt. I even lent the other guy DVD's through Jen and she lent my Pickup vehicle to him a couple of times. I know that for the past three years I have been mentally ill with OCD and we haven't been intimate that much - but at the start of our marriage we PROMISED each other that if there is ever another man or women and intimacy with them, we will divorce first and be completely honest about it. i have been completely faithful to her the whole time. I believe she may be having an affair with her boss at work now but I need to investigate that too. One day when she went to work (and I had a day off) she accidentally left her mobile phone at home and it ran, I rang to grab it because I thought it was her calling me but missed but it was from a private number and they left a message. Thinking it still might have been my wife I checked the message it was a guy I hadn't heard before and he said "Hi it's me, call me" in a sort of sultry manner. With LOTS of investigation I found out that it was her boss - you do not speak to your employees that way. She said something cryptic to me about a kiss with him after she admitted about the vanilla sex with the other guy. I think this may be a way for her to absolve guilt by only partially admitting something may have happened. I don't know what to do. I think I have to separate now. I feel empty inside but I know that is because I don't know how to take this and it is going to come flooding out later. My hands are shaking. I need to check though, is vanilla sex like a blow job and a hand job for another man considered cheating in a marriage? I feel betrayed but she indicated 'that is not sleeping with someone or cheating'. I have a strong feeling she HAS actually slept with the above guy now though. Please advise, what are your thoughts? Really Dude? You have to ask if your WW had another guys junk in her mouth is cheating!! IT IS CHEATING!!!! Don't fall for the "if it ain't intercourse it ain't cheating" line. I would bet she's been there, done that too. Demand NC, and the truth. Accept nothing less. None of this is your fault. Don't buy into that nonsense either. 1
oldguy Posted April 9, 2012 Posted April 9, 2012 And who titled it "vanilla" sex? Sex is sex. I've use a similar analogy to this before; if someone who has reached the age of consent engages in an act with a minor that they could serve time for, chances are that is sex. Therefore it is still "Sex" even when both parties have reached the age of consent. Calling it anything else is NOT "vanilla" it's BS!
Bryanp Posted April 9, 2012 Posted April 9, 2012 Time to see a lawyer. Your wife is a serial cheater. If another woman gave you a blow job would your wife not consider that cheating? Of course she would. Your wife has been putting herself and you at risk for STD's. I know a married woman who was cheating and giving oral sex to her lover. She ended up having genital herpes in her mouth. In addition, since giving blow jobs is no big deal for her you can probably assume she is giving them to the boss as well. She is playing you for a complete fool. She has no respect for you whatsoever. If you do not respect yourself then who will? Enough is enough! 1
standtall Posted April 9, 2012 Posted April 9, 2012 Confused...cheaters usually "trickle truth" when caught. I would suspect that she has done more. 1
Chi townD Posted April 9, 2012 Posted April 9, 2012 Two big rules you have to remember when dealing with a cheater: 1. If a cheater's lips are moving, they're usually lying. 2. Without concrete evidence, a cheater will only admit to the bare minimum to make it seem not as bad as it REALLY is. 5
imajerk Posted April 9, 2012 Posted April 9, 2012 I need to check though, is vanilla sex like a blow job and a hand job for another man considered cheating in a marriage? ABSOLUTELY NOT. Don't you remember Bill Clinton defining sex. He made it very clear that a blow job is not sex. And if the President can't define sex, who can?
ciara122 Posted April 9, 2012 Posted April 9, 2012 I'm sorry for you. Kissing is already cheating. So this is too. 1
Mme. Chaucer Posted April 9, 2012 Posted April 9, 2012 I don't even get the title is "vanilla sex" considered chaeating? I mean as opposed to what kinky sex would only be cheating? Is the reason for the title because of something you arn't explaining? I'm really confused seems like straight foward cheating to me. I think that "vanilla sex" = hand jobs and / or blowjobs to this person. I guess intercourse is a different flavor. 1
imajerk Posted April 9, 2012 Posted April 9, 2012 I was kidding about my comments about Bill Clinton. According to Wikipedia: Vanilla sex (or conventional sex) is a description of what a culture regards as standard or conventional sexual behaviour. Different cultures, subcultures and individuals have different ideas about what constitutes this type of sex. Often, it is interpreted as sex which does not involve such elements as BDSM, kink, or fetish activities. So if the answer is "No", that vanilla sex isn't cheating, then the only things that would be cheating would be BDSM, kink or fetish. I don't think very many people would agree with this. 1
drifter777 Posted April 9, 2012 Posted April 9, 2012 ... I then asked if he ever asked for a hand job or blow job -> she laughed again and said yes. I looked her straight in the eye and said "Did you ever give him a blow job or hand job", she went red then looked down at the table with a guilty grin on her face. After a minute she said yes. Wow, dude - this is cheating. She had sex with at least this one guy and maybe more, and you caught her. What she is doing to you is called "gaslighting" - look it up. She's trying to give you the impression that what she did is pretty much typical and "normal" and it's confusing the hell out of you. Ask yourself this question: if you had a sexy, flirty relationship with a female friend and you asked her for a blowjob/handjob and she obliged, would you think you cheated on your wife? If she was married, would you think she cheated on her husband? I need to check though, is vanilla sex like a blow job and a hand job for another man considered cheating in a marriage? I feel betrayed but she indicated 'that is not sleeping with someone or cheating'. I have a strong feeling she HAS actually slept with the above guy now though. Her "vanilla sex" thing is part of the gaslighting she is doing to you. I mean, if this is vanilla than what is strawberry? Her being the star of a gang bang? What she did is a disgusting betrayal of you and your marriage. She is now telling you that her wedding vows and the subsequent agreement you made regarding cheating doesn't mean a thing. And she's now trying to tell you that sucking off some other guy(s) isn't really cheating. Unbelievable. This is abhorrent behavior and you should really kick her out right now whether you intent to try to reconcile or not. You need to be a man and take a stand regarding her slutty behavior. She needs to understand that what she did is a devastating betrayal of your trust and her trying to make light of it is unacceptable. 1
imajerk Posted April 9, 2012 Posted April 9, 2012 Kissing is already cheating. This is borderline. It depends on the kiss. To carry it further, you don't even have to have sex to cheat. Emotional affairs are also cheating, and can be more harmful to a relationship than sexual affairs. 1
dreamingoftigers Posted April 9, 2012 Posted April 9, 2012 Yes, it's cheating. The frequency and amount of people suggested that shes been with and the terrible boundaries she has surrounding it suggests to me personally that age may have a sexual addiction in fact. Sorry to hear of your screaming grief. It's one of the worst things to experience. 1
drifter777 Posted April 9, 2012 Posted April 9, 2012 This is borderline. It depends on the kiss. To carry it further, you don't even have to have sex to cheat. Emotional affairs are also cheating, and can be more harmful to a relationship than sexual affairs. Lots of different kinds of kissing. Peck on the cheek. Peck on the lips. Kiss on the hand. These are probably innocent. Making out crosses the line for me. Kissing as foreplay to sucking someone's dick certainly crosses the line. 2
KathyM Posted April 9, 2012 Posted April 9, 2012 Cheating is normally defined as any romantic contact (either physical or emotional) with someone other than your SO. It has nothing to do with quality of sex or extent of sex. Any romantic contact with someone else (either physical or emotional). Even a hug could be considered cheating if it was done with romantic intent. A romantic Email is considered cheating if sent to someone other than your SO. The extent is not the determining factor--the romantic intent with the physical or emotional contact is what defines it as cheating. 1
betterdeal Posted April 9, 2012 Posted April 9, 2012 It doesn't matter what it's called or what she thinks of it: what matters is how you feel. 1
Chi townD Posted April 10, 2012 Posted April 10, 2012 I think most will agree on this definition of cheating. Doing or saying anything to another person that you wouldn't do in front of your spouse is cheating. 1
Author confused2314 Posted April 10, 2012 Author Posted April 10, 2012 Thank you so much for everyone's advice on this matter. I did not really understand the meaning of vanilla sex sorry about that - thought it meant anything but actual penetration. It is clear to me now that what she did is cheating no matter how you look at it. Oh man I wish I didn't suffer from this blasted OCD because it is making it hard to think and everything worse. Even my faith has been shaken by this because my wife is a born again bible believing Christian and when she was treating me bad recently before I found the truth she was bible reading and ignoring me and making me feel like that she was righteous some how because her frequent church attendance and bible study. It is time for me to man the fk up and take a stand. She can find another fool to cheat on. 1
Bryanp Posted April 10, 2012 Posted April 10, 2012 I think you are making the correct decision. Watch her come back crawling to you because she thinks she can still manipulate you. I wish you luck.
Forever Learning Posted April 10, 2012 Posted April 10, 2012 Wow, dude - this is cheating. She had sex with at least this one guy and maybe more, and you caught her. What she is doing to you is called "gaslighting" - look it up. She's trying to give you the impression that what she did is pretty much typical and "normal" and it's confusing the hell out of you. . She needs to understand that what she did is a devastating betrayal of your trust and her trying to make light of it is unacceptable. Definitely look up "Gaslighting". It will make you crazy. It involves lying that is designed to make someone question reality and their own perceptions of reality. It will make someone feel like they are going crazy. Gaslighting type liars like to watch someone feel like they are going crazy. It gets them off, so to speak. Bullies and "Cluster B" type mentally disordered people often participate in Gaslighting. A great protection against "Gaslighting" is: 1) Knowing "Gaslighting" exists, and that typically it takes an extremely foul human being to Gaslight another human being. 2) Having strong boundaries in life and a strong sense of right and wrong is great protection for yourself from liars. Having boundaries, integrity, and a sense of right and wrong in life helps you because, when someone crosses those boundaries, you recognize it. If your boundaries are 'fuzzy', and you don't have a sense of right and wrong, it's hard to know WHEN to actually 'take a stand' in life and say "OH, HELL NO!". Without strong boundaries, people can GET AWAY WITH abusing you much more often (because there's no strong line in the sand, in your mind, about where your PERSONAL 'boundaries' are, if you don't have strong boundaries, and only 'fuzzy' ones). People with strong boundaries, DON'T get abused for very long, because they WON'T put up with it. Wikipedia defines Gaslighting as: Gaslighting is a form of psychological abuse in which false information is presented with the intent of making a victim doubt his or her own memory and perception. It may simply be the denial by an abuser that previous abusive incidents ever occurred, or it could be the staging of bizarre events by the abuser with the intention of disorienting the victim. ******************** Good luck and all the best to you. 1
CC12 Posted April 10, 2012 Posted April 10, 2012 But vanilla sex... what reality is that not cheating I just want to understand the thinking behind the title. He already explained that: I did not really understand the meaning of vanilla sex sorry about that - thought it meant anything but actual penetration. It is clear to me now that what she did is cheating no matter how you look at it. It is time for me to man the fk up and take a stand. She can find another fool to cheat on. Good job. So what are you going to do now?
CC12 Posted April 10, 2012 Posted April 10, 2012 So I guess if I'm to take an answer from that he is just a very confused person... Yes. Good job. You are right. His username is confused2314. still in what world is a hand job or blow job not cheating like why does that even have to be questioned on a forum. I don't know, but he asked the question and it was answered and he now realizes that it's cheating and that it's messed up and hopefully he's benefited by posting on this forum. There's no need to continue chuckling about his ignorance or expressing how confused you are by it. You're not helping, you're just kind of being a dick at this point.
oldguy Posted April 10, 2012 Posted April 10, 2012 Quote: Originally Posted by Dust So I guess if I'm to take an answer from that he is just a very confused person... Yes. Good job. You are right. His username is confused2314. Quote: Originally Posted by Dust still in what world is a hand job or blow job not cheating like why does that even have to be questioned on a forum. I don't know, but he asked the question and it was answered and he now realizes that it's cheating and that it's messed up and hopefully he's benefited by posting on this forum. There's no need to continue chuckling about his ignorance or expressing how confused you are by it. You're not helping, you're just kind of being a dick at this point. Great point CC. There is obviously more involved here then we are privy too but the point is the OP asked a point blank question to which he received a unanimous answer. He mentioned OCD several times & it can be responsible for a host of cognitive symptoms.
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