spiderowl Posted April 8, 2012 Posted April 8, 2012 I've seen many guys on here advise others to avoid dating women at work. Apart from the possibility of it becoming awkward if you break up, there are sexual harassement laws to consider too. I'm wondering whether guys do avoid flirting with women at work and don't ask them out because of these laws. Guys, does it make a big difference to how you act towards women at work? If you were really attracted to a woman at work, would you do your best to ask her out somehow?
kaylan Posted April 8, 2012 Posted April 8, 2012 (edited) Only the most inept man would be able to cross the line from flirting into creeper harassment behavior without knowing it. Id like to think most guys know what flirting is ok at work and what behaviors could be construed as harassment. Mild flirting happens at places of work all the time, however certain professions require more professionalism than others. This means in certain atmospheres, flirting needs to be taken down a notch or few. Subtle flirting is best since youre not likely to cross any bad lines. Any astute person can tell if their flirting isnt wanted, and should then cease with it. However, many men arent astute, or they simply dont think theyll get in trouble for acting inappropriately. Edited April 8, 2012 by kaylan 5
Feelin Frisky Posted April 8, 2012 Posted April 8, 2012 I worked in a position of some power on Wall St. and at one time had 29 women reporting to me. I'm a flippant person and often felt like saying things that might be off color but yes, I did consider that it could go very wrong and thus managed myself as well. For instance there was a girl name Mona. If I weren't her supervisor I might have said "so, Mona, are you a moaner?" (which with my NY accent, "moaner" sounds the same as Mona). But, no. I would resist such things because I had power and it's not my place to abuse it by being presumptuous with my sexual wit. 4
RedRobin Posted April 8, 2012 Posted April 8, 2012 I've worked around nearly all men my entire adult life. Most people have learned how to conduct themselves with some decorum. The laws seem to have gotten rid of the most offensive behavior. Where I used to work, people would date openly. The only rule was that it should not cross any lines where it would be construed as an abuse of authority. A number of people I know met their spouses at work. 2
PinkInTheLimo Posted April 8, 2012 Posted April 8, 2012 When you study, you often meet your partner at school or at university. When you are older and work, it makes total sense that you meet your partner at work. It's actually a good place to meet someone because you see people day in day out and the way they are in daily life. It can just get awkward when you break up but even then it's mostly a matter of behaving like adults. 1
Woggle Posted April 8, 2012 Posted April 8, 2012 Because if things go wrong it is your word against hers and guess who they will believe.
RedRobin Posted April 8, 2012 Posted April 8, 2012 Because if things go wrong it is your word against hers and guess who they will believe. Back that up with first hand information. I've observed that to be crap. Most people behave and can laugh things off. In the cases where I've legitimately been 'sexually harrassed', I found other ways to manage it that were more effective than running to HR. But your kind of fear-mongering is effective in keeping the worst of the worst at bay and preventing the workplace from becoming a pick-up joint. So keep it up.
prune juice Posted April 8, 2012 Posted April 8, 2012 Only the most inept man would be able to cross the line from flirting into creeper harassment behavior without knowing it. Id like to think most guys know what flirting is ok at work and what behaviors could be construed as harassment. Mild flirting happens at places of work all the time, however certain professions require more professionalism than others. This means in certain atmospheres, flirting needs to be taken down a notch or few. Subtle flirting is best since youre not likely to cross any bad lines. Any astute person can tell if their flirting isnt wanted, and should then cease with it. However, many men arent astute, or they simply dont think theyll get in trouble for acting inappropriately. half of the guys who are programmers in my company. they don't flirt at all thinking that's harassment. they are good guys and some make six figures, but they aren't socially astute. at all.
prune juice Posted April 8, 2012 Posted April 8, 2012 When you study, you often meet your partner at school or at university. When you are older and work, it makes total sense that you meet your partner at work. It's actually a good place to meet someone because you see people day in day out and the way they are in daily life. It can just get awkward when you break up but even then it's mostly a matter of behaving like adults. a lot of corporations have no dating rules. sure some guys break them. they are generally social guys who know how to weasel out of trouble if they are caught.
wwwjd Posted April 8, 2012 Posted April 8, 2012 Yes. I'm DONE even casting a sexified GLANCE at girls at work, thanks to lawyers and their stupid dehumanizing profiteering from frivolous lawsuits. I won't even compliment a girls shoes or attire anymore. Just too risky these days. 1
prune juice Posted April 8, 2012 Posted April 8, 2012 I work IN the HR Dept at a company of 300+. You'd be AMAZED at how many men say inappropriate things to me all the time telling me I'm beautiful or hot. I laugh it off as I'm not a Femi-nazi which is lucky for them or they'd all be fired and embroiled in sexual harrassment lawsuits. LOL. a man who compliments a woman in any way could be in danger if it's the wrong woman. i've seen some men get away with comments that go beyond gross and others who have done nothing get in trouble. incredibly inconsistent enforcement.
prune juice Posted April 8, 2012 Posted April 8, 2012 Yes. I'm DONE even casting a sexified GLANCE at girls at work, thanks to lawyers and their stupid dehumanizing profiteering from frivolous lawsuits. I won't even compliment a girls shoes or attire anymore. Just too risky these days. i'll compliment a girls shoes, but i know what tone to make the compliment in. others who don't read social cues need to keep their mouths shut or risk their jobs. its not fair but nothing is fair these days. some guys could get away with touching a girl barely appropriately and shed actually enjoy it.
wwwjd Posted April 8, 2012 Posted April 8, 2012 Oh, I know EXACTLY how to be proper about it, but I won't. See the persons post above who said a man who compliments a woman IN ANY WAY could be in jeopardy. That is true. Heck, a woman I have never seen, met or ever talked to could CLAIM I said something suggestive to her, the company gets a lawyer, and I'm suddenly unemployed for ZERO reason, WITH a bad reputation. THAT's how this messed up system works. Then women wonder why men have become these sniveling, spinless, whimpy men instead of the MANLY men we are supposed to be... ... well, there ya go.
dasein Posted April 8, 2012 Posted April 8, 2012 I won't let myself be alone in a corporate environment with a woman behind a closed door. If she closes the door, and isn't my boss, I get up and open it, then stand in the door. Advise all men working in corporate environments to do the same. I have some outrageous examples I've typed out in threads before that I don't want to retype. Short version of two of them, saw a woman get 1 mill for a single asspat from a senile ANCIENT dude at a firm they let hang around out of respect for what he did in the past. If you saw the dude you wouldn't think him capable of it, at least in a cognizant way, he could barely walk... easy target for scammer, lottery ticket for her. Firm settled to avoid publicity. That's right, your potential pay raises can and do go to a bunch of Sex Harr scammers and their unethical lawyers. One guy covered many locations but did not have any authority over anyone, he wasn't a boss. Asked a woman out -one single time- at one of his territory locations and was fired within a couple days No nondating policy in the handbook, he was just made an example of by the vicious shrew in HR looking for a poster child for the company's expensive, ridiculously overdone Sex Harr "drive." This was in the 90s, when the mania was most intense, doubt it would play out this way today, but still. Men, be careful. Don't have any interactions with women at work that aren't strictly limited to the work at hand, and if they try to start up with you, call you at home at night, etc., distance yourselves or take the risk of irreparable career damage. 1
daphne Posted April 8, 2012 Posted April 8, 2012 Yes. I'm DONE even casting a sexified GLANCE at girls at work, thanks to lawyers and their stupid dehumanizing profiteering from frivolous lawsuits. I won't even compliment a girls shoes or attire anymore. Just too risky these days. Sounds like you're one of those guys Kaylan was referring to. 1
dasein Posted April 8, 2012 Posted April 8, 2012 Sounds like you're one of those guys Kaylan was referring to. Or in other words, "that car wreck you got in couldn't possibly have been a scam because you hit them from behind!!" LOL. I recall from the past that you have really suffered from Sex Harr though. Don't take anything I say about scammers here to imply that it doesn't happen legitimately also
RedRobin Posted April 8, 2012 Posted April 8, 2012 Sorry guys. Some of you really need to get over yourselves. Most women are simply not going to jeapardize their careers over the inappropriate but totally harmless banter that some of you engage in. Seriously. I'd say it is just as likely that a woman would be accused of being a 'homewrecker' and be subject to a negative whisper campaign if she spurned the advances of a so-called family man in a way he wasn't happy with. Works both ways.
prune juice Posted April 8, 2012 Posted April 8, 2012 Sorry guys. Some of you really need to get over yourselves. Most women are simply not going to jeapardize their careers over the inappropriate but totally harmless banter that some of you engage in. Seriously. I'd say it is just as likely that a woman would be accused of being a 'homewrecker' and be subject to a negative whisper campaign if she spurned the advances of a so-called family man in a way he wasn't happy with. Works both ways. sorry gals. you need to get over yourselfs and stop abusing the sexual harassment laws. it's the men and not women who get fired over sexual harassment. they are enforced inconsistently and who would want to risk losing their job when the chance of an upside is remote? should a computer geek say nice dress to a gal when she may not like the comment and worse may turn him in to hr and his six figure job down the drain. even if she likes being compliments whats the chance it will lead to a date? remote.
prune juice Posted April 8, 2012 Posted April 8, 2012 I won't let myself be alone in a corporate environment with a woman behind a closed door. If she closes the door, and isn't my boss, I get up and open it, then stand in the door. Advise all men working in corporate environments to do the same. I have some outrageous examples I've typed out in threads before that I don't want to retype. Short version of two of them, saw a woman get 1 mill for a single asspat from a senile ANCIENT dude at a firm they let hang around out of respect for what he did in the past. If you saw the dude you wouldn't think him capable of it, at least in a cognizant way, he could barely walk... easy target for scammer, lottery ticket for her. Firm settled to avoid publicity. That's right, your potential pay raises can and do go to a bunch of Sex Harr scammers and their unethical lawyers. One guy covered many locations but did not have any authority over anyone, he wasn't a boss. Asked a woman out -one single time- at one of his territory locations and was fired within a couple days No nondating policy in the handbook, he was just made an example of by the vicious shrew in HR looking for a poster child for the company's expensive, ridiculously overdone Sex Harr "drive." This was in the 90s, when the mania was most intense, doubt it would play out this way today, but still. Men, be careful. Don't have any interactions with women at work that aren't strictly limited to the work at hand, and if they try to start up with you, call you at home at night, etc., distance yourselves or take the risk of irreparable career damage. i don't go that far. i can read gals to some extent but i'm careful.
EasyHeart Posted April 8, 2012 Posted April 8, 2012 Sorry guys. Some of you really need to get over yourselves. Most women are simply not going to jeapardize their careers over the inappropriate but totally harmless banter that some of you engage in. Seriously. Absolutely true. The problem is that "most women" don't matter. You only need to run across one batty woman and she can destroy your career. I'd say it is just as likely that a woman would be accused of being a 'homewrecker' and be subject to a negative whisper campaign if she spurned the advances of a so-called family man in a way he wasn't happy with. Works both ways.I've seen several men lose their careers over a sexual harassment claim; I've never seen the "homewrecker" thing except in movies from the 1950s. But gossip and social ostracizing are completely different from court proceedings. People can gossip about me as much as they want, but I HATE getting sued. 3
wwwjd Posted April 9, 2012 Posted April 9, 2012 Sounds like you're one of those guys Kaylan was referring to. Not even remotely. I understand the system, and others have described things here already. I can't think of one girl at my office that doesn't love me platonically, but none of that matters when one person decides to change their mind at any given moment. Thanks to lawyers. Note the other examples others have already typed. Just not worth it at the office these days. I'd rather we all be faulty humans at our work and stop hiding, but it is not worth sacrificing my long earned career over a joke.
Star Gazer Posted April 9, 2012 Posted April 9, 2012 Back that up with first hand information. I've observed that to be crap. I was an employment litigation attorney for 8 years. I couldn't possibly list all the cases I've worked on that demonstrate the existence of he-said-she-said is not "crap." 1
prune juice Posted April 9, 2012 Posted April 9, 2012 Absolutely true. The problem is that "most women" don't matter. You only need to run across one batty woman and she can destroy your career. I've seen several men lose their careers over a sexual harassment claim; I've never seen the "homewrecker" thing except in movies from the 1950s. But gossip and social ostracizing are completely different from court proceedings. People can gossip about me as much as they want, but I HATE getting sued. are the ones who lose their careers guys who go way over the top with inappropriateness or good people who complimented the wrong woman?
prune juice Posted April 9, 2012 Posted April 9, 2012 I was an employment litigation attorney for 8 years. I couldn't possibly list all the cases I've worked on that demonstrate the existence of he-said-she-said is not "crap." there we go and who's the judge and jury gonna believe? the non smooth guy with poor social skills is going down big time in a he said she said battle.
prune juice Posted April 9, 2012 Posted April 9, 2012 Not even remotely. I understand the system, and others have described things here already. I can't think of one girl at my office that doesn't love me platonically, but none of that matters when one person decides to change their mind at any given moment. Thanks to lawyers. Note the other examples others have already typed. Just not worth it at the office these days. I'd rather we all be faulty humans at our work and stop hiding, but it is not worth sacrificing my long earned career over a joke. i'm lucky theres some at my work in which we can banter back and forth but i'm careful with those i don't know well. it just takes one f up to ruin it all.
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