veggirl Posted April 8, 2012 Posted April 8, 2012 again, do we know this for sure...or is the Op maybe leaving some details out? I really am just asking, not accusing him of lying.... again, we only have his word that this is so.... Agree. And it's highly likely that he is telling it like it is... but there's an equal small possibility that there's more to this than meets the eye....? Which is why I asked him to outline how varied their sex life was - when they have it..... How do we know ANYTHING posted on LS is the 100% unbiased truth? We don't, but usually people don't go into posts assuming OP is leaving out *pertinent* details. I'm sorry, but I agree with some of the guys on this one, if this was a girl posting the same problem no one would be all "oh well have you gotten fat? did you quit buying him stuff? you must suck in bed" and some posters (I wasn't calling anyone out specifically) did say "the problem is you" and variations of that, which is really unhelpful when he hasn't given any indication that is true. He said he tries to seduce her. He takes her to dinner, buys her wine...
TaraMaiden Posted April 8, 2012 Posted April 8, 2012 .... He said he tries to seduce her. He takes her to dinner, buys her wine... I fully take your point on the main body of your post.... but this^^...? AAAARGH!! the poor sucker can't win! you know why?!- Because while he's spending his hard-earned wonga taking her out to dinner and buying her wine, she's thinking "I know what you're after... you can't 'buy' me you know....do you think this is going to get you 'sex...? I'm not as green as cabbage-looking..." *Head + wall = bash* 1
Professor X Posted April 8, 2012 Posted April 8, 2012 I fully take your point on the main body of your post.... but this^^...? AAAARGH!! the poor sucker can't win! you know why?!- Because while he's spending his hard-earned wonga taking her out to dinner and buying her wine, she's thinking "I know what you're after... you can't 'buy' me you know....do you think this is going to get you 'sex...? I'm not as green as cabbage-looking..." *Head + wall = bash* She's pushing for marriage yet you claim she still thinks in terms of buying her - that's something you might do early on, but as far as they are, it should be time spending.
TaraMaiden Posted April 8, 2012 Posted April 8, 2012 Ok, let me try to clarify this from a female PoV.... I'm not going to go into intricate detail - it's not my thread... but when there's an absence of physical intimacy, many people resort to therapy, counselling or talking things over by reading books on the subject and trying to see where the solution might lie. A classic and well-known theory, which many men are advised, works (and indeed, it has been alluded to, in this thread) is to woo the lady, and make her feel special, feminine, and romanced. Now, when the sex life is satisfactory, and both partners feel comfortable with the status quo, this may well lead to a night of close physical intimacy. however, when there's a problem with the woman not stepping up to the plate, or her libido's questionable, or her sexual communication is lacking, she feels that this is a coercive and not-do-subtle way of trying to get into her underwear. women aren't stupid, but the problem is, they self-sabotage by thinking this way. unfortunate - but effective. I know. I've been there. And women know how to read men, because men are stimulated by the visual - hence the amount of men who watch porn. And that's ok, that's not a criticism. But men rarely complain about their wives watching too much porn. However, there are plenty of threads - again, by men - complaining about their wives'/ girlfriends' loss of sexual desire. And the advice is often similar... woo her, wine 7 dine her, perfume, flowers, take her away.... women know this to be a tactic, a way for the guy to possibly get some. and because we feel it's pressure - we resist.... but that's the way it is. No matter how long the relationship... And thinking of marriage- well, that's what a woman seeks. Threads about "Why won't he marry me?!" are plentiful. she may not be thinking she's causing any problem. she's ok with the sex life the way it is. remember, he's the one who sees it as a hurdle... so why should she not be seeking marriage? 1
Professor X Posted April 8, 2012 Posted April 8, 2012 However, there are plenty of threads - again, by men - complaining about their wives'/ girlfriends' loss of sexual desire. And the advice is often similar... woo her, wine 7 dine her, perfume, flowers, take her away.... women know this to be a tactic, a way for the guy to possibly get some. and because we feel it's pressure - we resist.... Again, why would you think that way when you're with someone for 9 months now? Why dinner, wine, food, perfume, music, flowers etc would be seen by you as him trying to get some rather than spending some romantic time with you? I'd get it if you are a new couple, that's something a lot do, obviously to woo the girl, but after a few months, I don't even think in terms of "oooh, I need to manipulate her so I can get some" - it just becomes a normal activity, and thus, I don't understand the urge to resist. If he tried, why does she need to resist according to your theory? Just to be anti? it's like you won't accept gifts from your SO cause you'll think he's trying to get something, instead of just being nice. Seems to me like a very dark way to approach things in a long term RS.
TaraMaiden Posted April 8, 2012 Posted April 8, 2012 (edited) Again, why would you think that way when you're with someone for 9 months now? Why dinner, wine, food, perfume, music, flowers etc would be seen by you as him trying to get some rather than spending some romantic time with you? I don't know why you're not getting this...and i'm not trying to be argumentative, or insulting.. i genuinely don't understand why you don't get it... OK, let's assume a relationship is relatively new, but exclusive. The couple like each other. Any form of wooing by a man, is a demonstration that he's enjoying the lady's company, and likes to make her smile, make her happy, and create a pleasant atmosphere where she will feel relaxed and content, and show her affection, right? such an atmosphere is conducive to romance, such an atmosphere creates an intimate mood, where a couple can talk in private, gaze into each others' eyes, and it can create a feeling of arousal and desire. this is courtship. ok, it doesn't always end in sex, but both are open to it, and if both are open to it, it will cement their relationship, and make them closer. I'd get it if you are a new couple, that's something a lot do, obviously to woo the girl, but after a few months, I don't even think in terms of "oooh, I need to manipulate her so I can get some" - it just becomes a normal activity, and thus, I don't understand the urge to resist. the 'urge to resist' arrives when there is sexual incompatibility, and the woman is reluctant to have sex. what used to be a standard 'ritual' or practice, now becomes a clear signal that the guy is after something. in the woman's mind, she's changed her MO - but he hasn't. So, rather than see this as 'normal activity' (and it depends how often it happens) she's now changed her perception to read it as a way of his getting something out of it... If he tried, why does she need to resist according to your theory? Just to be anti? it's like you won't accept gifts from your SO cause you'll think he's trying to get something, instead of just being nice. Precisely. she's willing to accept - but not to reciprocate. Once upon a time, she would have done. Now, because of the inequality in their desire, she sees it as a sneaky way of him getting his rocks off... Seems to me like a very dark way to approach things in a long term RS. you have no idea how common this is, do you? Edited April 8, 2012 by TaraMaiden 2
xxoo Posted April 8, 2012 Posted April 8, 2012 Again, why would you think that way when you're with someone for 9 months now? Why dinner, wine, food, perfume, music, flowers etc would be seen by you as him trying to get some rather than spending some romantic time with you? I'd get it if you are a new couple, that's something a lot do, obviously to woo the girl, but after a few months, I don't even think in terms of "oooh, I need to manipulate her so I can get some" - it just becomes a normal activity, and thus, I don't understand the urge to resist. If he tried, why does she need to resist according to your theory? Just to be anti? it's like you won't accept gifts from your SO cause you'll think he's trying to get something, instead of just being nice. Seems to me like a very dark way to approach things in a long term RS. I agree, it is a dark way to view romantic gestures. Probably women take it that way when they feel that they romantic gestures are false or forced. The woman wants the man to want to dote on her for the joy of doting on her--not in exchange for sex. Similarly, the man wants the woman to want sex with him for the joy of sex with him--not in exchange for flowers and wine. It helps to try to assume the best of each other, instead of the worst!
Professor X Posted April 8, 2012 Posted April 8, 2012 you have no idea how common this is, do you? In a LTR, no. I have a "**** the System" attitude myself - got me into LOTS of troubles when I was in the army, and all of this was because I felt this "anti" feeling. I just can't see how you will wanna be with someone, yet take his romantic gestures as something sneaky... seems quite pointless. I dunno, I never thought like that, so I guess I can't understand why someone would.
TaraMaiden Posted April 8, 2012 Posted April 8, 2012 I just can't see how you will wanna be with someone, yet take his romantic gestures as something sneaky... seems quite pointless. It's complicated... most agendas are.... Maybe it's as she says... maybe the novelty has worn off, because all she wants now, is a secure relationship, with marriage on the cards. Her remark about his being lucky he gets any at all, is selfish, self-centred and wholly egotistical. i suggest the OP drop her just for that - but she will tell people that he ended it with her, because he wanted sex all the time, and she wasn't prepared to compromise her own body and personal desire.... in her eyes, 'god, it's all he bloody thinks about - !' I dunno, I never thought like that, so I guess I can't understand why someone would. Again, I'm not being argumentative, but if you've never thought about it, or been party to it, there's no reason why you'd understand it, or be aware of it happening. But when you research the percentage of women who go off sex in a relationship - regardless of how long it's been going on - you'll be stunned.....
udolipixie Posted April 8, 2012 Posted April 8, 2012 What did the OP say that suggested this? The take her out line and being declined sex suggested to me that regular romance wasn't routine but something now just started as an attempt/expectation of sex. From my experiences/observations in most relationships the romance is called the honeymoon phase and the quality/quantity declining is acceptable/expected however the sex declining out is unacceptable and expected to retain the quality/quantity as before. Sex quality/quantity declining is a common problem and interestingly enough the regular remedy is to woo her and reignite the attraction aka keeping the romance as it was. You are very presumptuous! To me I'm no more presumptuous then those stating she's cheating and etc. It's not that uncommon for gals to hook up with guys when they think they can do no better solely for stability. Considering her treatment of him and indication of desire/attraction towards him it's not that off-base to me.
wwwjd Posted April 8, 2012 Posted April 8, 2012 he: why don't we do it in the backyard anymore?? she: because you don't bring me flowers anymore! he: I don't bring you flowers because we don't do it in the backyard! she: I don't do it in the back yard because you don't bring me flowers! he: I don't bring you flowers because we don't do it in the backyard! she: I don't do it in the back yard because you don't bring me flowers! he: I don't bring you flowers because we don't do it in the backyard! she: I don't do it in the back yard because you don't bring me flowers! he: I don't bring you flowers because we don't do it in the backyard! she: I don't do it in the back yard because you don't bring me flowers! he: I don't bring you flowers because we don't do it in the backyard! she: I don't do it in the back yard because you don't bring me flowers! ........
udolipixie Posted April 8, 2012 Posted April 8, 2012 he: why don't we do it in the backyard anymore?? she: because you don't bring me flowers anymore! he: I don't bring you flowers because we don't do it in the backyard! she: I don't do it in the back yard because you don't bring me flowers! he: I don't bring you flowers because we don't do it in the backyard! she: I don't do it in the back yard because you don't bring me flowers! he: I don't bring you flowers because we don't do it in the backyard! she: I don't do it in the back yard because you don't bring me flowers! he: I don't bring you flowers because we don't do it in the backyard! she: I don't do it in the back yard because you don't bring me flowers! he: I don't bring you flowers because we don't do it in the backyard! she: I don't do it in the back yard because you don't bring me flowers! ........ Pretty close depiction of most heterosexual relationships I've observed. He stops bringing flowers so she stops doing it as he liked. She's not doing it as he likes so he sees no reason to consider bringing flowers as before. They discuss and it's you don't so I don't.
xxoo Posted April 8, 2012 Posted April 8, 2012 (edited) Pretty close depiction of most heterosexual relationships I've observed. He stops bringing flowers so she stops doing it as he liked. She's not doing it as he likes so he sees no reason to consider bringing flowers as before. They discuss and it's you don't so I don't. Except I don't think it is literally about flowers, at least most of the time. It is more about the belief that he no longer considers her emotional needs, whatever they are. If she felt deeply cared for and considered, flowers wouldn't matter. And the flip side of that is.....simply flowers won't fix it, either, esp if she thinks the flowers are given in absence other changes. Edited April 8, 2012 by xxoo 1
amantis Posted April 8, 2012 Posted April 8, 2012 IF you are only dating for 9 months now and you dont know wtf is going on ... just move on I was married for 6 years , same thing happened after 5 years ... most of it was my own fault ( now i know , but not when i was married ) i just wanted more sex , theres alot of factors when you are living with someone Like the other guy said , you dont date so you can get married , you date so you can know someone
123321 Posted April 9, 2012 Posted April 9, 2012 Ok, let me try to clarify this from a female PoV.... I'm not going to go into intricate detail - it's not my thread... but when there's an absence of physical intimacy, many people resort to therapy, counselling or talking things over by reading books on the subject and trying to see where the solution might lie. A classic and well-known theory, which many men are advised, works (and indeed, it has been alluded to, in this thread) is to woo the lady, and make her feel special, feminine, and romanced. Very nice and well thought out, let me explain it from a male pov: - This relationship isn't giving me what I need. - There are 1000s of other potential relationships that will. - Adios. So much simpler.
xxoo Posted April 9, 2012 Posted April 9, 2012 Very nice and well thought out, let me explain it from a male pov: - This relationship isn't giving me what I need. - There are 1000s of other potential relationships that will. - Adios. So much simpler. Good point. Why do women stay in a relationship after they no longer desire sex with the guy??? (absent marriage and kids)
123321 Posted April 9, 2012 Posted April 9, 2012 Good point. Why do women stay in a relationship after they no longer desire sex with the guy??? (absent marriage and kids) I dunno, not all women are like this which is something that, after I discovered it, makes me not put up with such behavior. If you have a problem, tell me, and we can talk, but stopping "affection" and expecting my super duper mind reading powers to sort out what your issue is? Nah. That's just an attitude that will cause nothing good to come in the future, goodbye, I don't have time for your brand of drama. 3
udolipixie Posted April 9, 2012 Posted April 9, 2012 Except I don't think it is literally about flowers, at least most of the time. I wasn't intending to be taken literally I was just applying the quote to my observations the flowers being stand in for things he did during the honeymoon phase that are now lacking or nonexistent. Why do women stay in a relationship after they no longer desire sex with the guy??? (absent marriage and kids) Speaking and going by the women I met & know it's because of the stability, fear they can't do better, fear of being the single sad stigma aka cat lady, and/or view that sex isn't all that important.
Pierre Posted April 9, 2012 Posted April 9, 2012 If a woman does not want sex at the 9 month mark she may be: 1. Anorgasmic! A relatively common problem even in women that have a lot of sexual experience. IN this instance sex with the same man gets old quick. 2. The MAN is a poor lover and fails to give her an orgasm. Same result as above. 3. The MAN fails to meet the emotional needs of his woman and she becomes resentful; loses interest in sex. 4. Too much sex too soon. Yes even here that can be a problem. Those that have sex like rabbits in the first couple of weeks may end up in celibacy in a year. Those that wait and have sporadic sex at the onset sometimes are going strong several years later. This woman may have simply discovered this MAN is not a match for her even if she gave him a lot of sex at the onset. 5. If a MAN is constantly forcing a woman into sex she may feel too much pressure and lose her libido.
Andy_K Posted April 9, 2012 Posted April 9, 2012 Pierre, I notice you don't mention the possibility that a girl simply has a low sex drive. Do you consider this a real phenomenon?
Pierre Posted April 9, 2012 Posted April 9, 2012 Pierre, I notice you don't mention the possibility that a girl simply has a low sex drive. Do you consider this a real phenomenon? Oops, you are correct. Some folks do not match in this department.
phineas Posted April 9, 2012 Posted April 9, 2012 Yeah, that kind of speaks VOLUMES about someone's lack of technique when their girlfriend has to buy a "toy" to satisfy herself. Hey OP, whatever you THINK you were doing right, you obviously weren't. Better read up on how to please a woman - it's more than just jumping on top and pumping away. Maybe, Except she is also pushing for marriage. This woman is a complete contradiction. Everything she say's & does = BF not good Yet she wants to spend the rest of her life with him?
veggirl Posted April 9, 2012 Posted April 9, 2012 Maybe, Except she is also pushing for marriage. This woman is a complete contradiction. Everything she say's & does = BF not good Yet she wants to spend the rest of her life with him? Exactly. Why is she pressing for marriage if she hates how he sexes her?? And IF he is bad, that is HER JOB to bring it up, not his to guess. As I said.
veggirl Posted April 9, 2012 Posted April 9, 2012 Yeah, that kind of speaks VOLUMES about someone's lack of technique when their girlfriend has to buy a "toy" to satisfy herself. Hey OP, whatever you THINK you were doing right, you obviously weren't. Better read up on how to please a woman - it's more than just jumping on top and pumping away. He shouldn't have to. If this is the problem, his GF is a grown woman who should be telling him what she wants, what she likes, etc. If she can't do that, it's her bad. Where are you getting that he jumps on top and just pumps away? 1
Pierre Posted April 9, 2012 Posted April 9, 2012 Maybe, Except she is also pushing for marriage. This woman is a complete contradiction. Everything she say's & does = BF not good Yet she wants to spend the rest of her life with him? Many women marry the guy that offers marriage. Sometimes, the man the woman really wants is not available for marriage. 2
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