Cold sores vs herpes

[xxoo]

You take SOME precautions, but not others.

 

You close all the windows, but leave the doors open, so to speak.

 

It is fine if you choose not to date people with known HSV, for whatever your reasons.

 

But then it makes little sense to have casual intimate contact (kissing) that can easily pass the same virus. Most of us, if wanting to avoid a virus, would do the opposite--abstain from the casual contact with those of unknown status, but not rule out someone we are more deeply interested in because of a known positive. The rewards only outweigh the risk because we are really interested in the person.

[kaylan]

You take SOME precautions, but not others.

 

You close all the windows, but leave the doors open, so to speak.

 

It is fine if you choose not to date people with known HSV, for whatever your reasons.

 

But then it makes little sense to have casual intimate contact (kissing) that can easily pass the same virus. Most of us, if wanting to avoid a virus, would do the opposite--abstain from the casual contact with those of unknown status, but not rule out someone we are more deeply interested in because of a known positive. The rewards only outweigh the risk because we are really interested in the person.

But arent you guys the ones saying risk of transmission is super duper low when no cold sores are present? So you cant argue both sides. First its, "well you might have it anyways" or "youre prolly always exposed to it"...but then next you say "risk of transmission is low without the sores". But youre playing into my reasoning...if theres not a bigger risk in my mind, like knowingly engaging in contact with someone who has a virus....then whats the big deal if I dont want to fool around with that person? Sure oral herpes isnt that serious, but id rather not be bothered with it if I end up making myself knowingly contract it somehow.

 

Everything is a risk/reward analysis. And many small things are deal breakers to people everyday. I dont see all this ruckus when someone says they wanna date a particular race, or non pot smokers, or someone of a particular build...so hows this issue any different?

 

If someones a known positive to me (which I find out early on) they wont become someone Im deeply interested in. Thats how deal breakers work a lot of the time.

Edited April 5, 2012 by kaylan

[kaylan]

Hey kaylan some on told me gays have higher rates of STI's is that true?

Off-topic much?

[oaks]

A regular std test does not include herpes2, and certainly not herpes1.

 

Same here in the UK. If you just want a routine check up for peace-of-mind, eg after the end of a relationship or before getting sexual in a new one, and have no symptoms, the standard test from the NHS (the 'free' state-run health service) is just for Chlamydia, Gonorrhoea, Syphilis and HIV, and they explicitly ask for your consent for the HIV test separately to the rest.

 

That was my experience as a heterosexual male in my late 30s who has no specific reason to think I might be infected with anything. (They asked questions that categorised me as such, so I'm not sure if giving different answers would affect what they test for... but it wouldn't include herpes anyway.)

[xxoo]

But arent you guys the ones saying risk of transmission is super duper low when no cold sores are present? So you cant argue both sides. First its, "well you might have it anyways" or "youre prolly always exposed to it"...but then next you say "risk of transmission is low without the sores". But youre playing into my reasoning...if theres not a bigger risk in my mind, like knowingly engaging in contact with someone who has a virus....then whats the big deal if I dont want to fool around with that person? Sure oral herpes isnt that serious, but id rather not be bothered with it if I end up making myself knowingly contract it somehow.

 

Everything is a risk/reward analysis. And many small things are deal breakers to people everyday. I dont see all this ruckus when someone says they wanna date a particular race, or non pot smokers, or someone of a particular build...so hows this issue any different?

 

If someones a known positive to me (which I find out early on) they wont become someone Im deeply interested in. Thats how deal breakers work a lot of the time.

 

The risks are low when no cold sores are present, but there are still there. And you can't argue both sides, either, because those risks are equally low when no sores are present with a stranger who you don't know is positive or with a gf you do know is positive.

 

It really makes no difference to me if you date girls with HSV1 or not. But the logic is screwy if you kiss casually.

[volkl1996]

Kaylan, unless you are having an active outbreak of herpes, blood tests will often return a false negative. That means the test will come up negative, even though you are carrying the virus. It is improbable that you will receive an accurate test result if you are not having an active outbreak.

 

 

Exactly

 

My ex had these on her mouth, 1-2 a year. She told me about them the first time she had an outbreak while we were dating. It never bothered me. We avoided lip contact and sharing utensils and the like during an outbreak.

 

Post seperation/divorce I asked my Dr if I should get tested. He said exactly what the above poster said. He suggested I not get tested so I did not.

[salparadise]

Wow, it's pretty amazing to see the differing attitudes on this!

 

Kaylan is catching a lot of heat from certain people but I think his reasoning is sound on pretty much on every point. If you don't have HSV, or believe that you don't because you've never had symptoms (if you're truly asymptomatic the odds are 80% that you don't have it), then it's perfectly reasonable that you would not want to expose yourself unnecessarily. And in that case, it's also perfectly reasonable that someone who is infected would be unattractive. The last time I checked, health status is not a protected class in the dating arena! Another analogy would be a tall woman's preference to date men as tall or taller than herself. Why would one be acceptable and the other not?

 

The same people who proselytize that it's uncool to discriminate on the basis of HSV status will overtly and consciously discriminate against people with certain superficial traits... lack of machismo, not very wealthy, baldness or bad hair, bad teeth, too heavy, too skinny, bad complexion, eyes too close together, crooked nose, ears stick out, speech impediment. If these are all fair game then why is HSV off the table?

 

It is not true that passing a joint or sharing a drink are high risk. HSV is rarely, if ever, spread by means other than skin to skin contact. It is also not true that kissing a person who is asymptomatic is extremely risky.

 

It could be said that dating is simply the process of selecting a mate using any and all criteria that one chooses to discriminate between available prospects.

[Professor X]

Exactly

 

My ex had these on her mouth, 1-2 a year. She told me about them the first time she had an outbreak while we were dating. It never bothered me. We avoided lip contact and sharing utensils and the like during an outbreak.

 

Post seperation/divorce I asked my Dr if I should get tested. He said exactly what the above poster said. He suggested I not get tested so I did not.

 

Nope.

 

During an outbreak you can test for the virus itself - true, however, while not during outbreak times, you can only test for the antibodies for the virus, which you will always have from the moment you catch the virus for the first time.

 

However, there's about 15% for the test to return a false positive result.

 

P.S. I'd switch a doctor.

[spookie]

No one is saying kaylan doesn't have he right not to date people with Hsv. It just seems dumb to eliminate the majority based on a Harmless virus whose presence does not indicate any other characteristics. In the grand scheme if dating (and viruses) it just seems like there are better things to worry anout not to mention his discrimination is full of false precision. He is only eliminating the minority (people who know they are infected and let him know) of those who pose a real risk.

[salparadise]

No one is saying kaylan doesn't have he right not to date people with Hsv. It just seems dumb to eliminate the majority based on a Harmless virus whose presence does not indicate any other characteristics. In the grand scheme if dating (and viruses) it just seems like there are better things to worry anout not to mention his discrimination is full of false precision. He is only eliminating the minority (people who know they are infected and let him know) of those who pose a real risk.

 

Yes I know–– only I didn't say right. The implication is that, for those who don't have the virus, avoidance of contracting it by choosing not to date someone who does, is uncool and irrational.

 

Now, anyone can see how it would be interpreted as uncool from the perspective of someone who is infected. They don't want to be treated like a leper or labeled as damaged goods simply because of the infection. So they argue that it's illogical and uncool to make discrimination part of the selection process. This is logical. And for the very same reason, plus not wanting to have the blisters, it's logical that if you don't already have it you wouldn't want to get it. Therefore, it naturally follows that dating someone who you know is likely to give it to you would be considerably less appealing than if they didn't have it, or dating someone else who doesn't have it.

 

It's all extremely simple––people who don't have it don't want it, and people who do have it don't want to be stigmatized by it. The conflict arises when one group tries to convince the other that their perspective is not valid.

[Negative Nancy]

Kaylan is catching a lot of heat from certain people but I think his reasoning is sound on pretty much on every point. If you don't have HSV, or believe that you don't because you've never had symptoms (if you're truly asymptomatic the odds are 80% that you don't have it), then it's perfectly reasonable that you would not want to expose yourself unnecessarily.

 

kaylan most likely has no clue, not surprising though and certainly nothing new .

 

The Epstein–Barr virus (EBV), also called human herpesvirus 4 (HHV-4), is a virus of the herpes family and is one of the most common viruses in humans. It is best known as the cause of infectious mononucleosis.

 

Many children become infected with EBV, and these infections usually cause no symptoms or are indistinguishable from the other mild, brief illnesses of childhood. Symptoms of infectious mononucleosisare fever, sore throat, and swollen lymph glands. Sometimes, a swollen spleen or liver involvement may develop.

 

Infection with Epstein-Barr virus (EBV) is very common and usually occurs in childhood or early adulthood. In fact, up to 95% of people in the U.S. have been infected with EBV.

the virus is also found frequently in the saliva of healthy people. In fact, many healthy people can carry and spread the virus intermittently for life. These people are usually the primary reservoir for person-to-person transmission. For this reason, transmission of the virus is almost impossible to prevent. Since 95% of adults have been infected with EBV, most adults will show antibodies to EBV from infection years earlier.

 

I bet kaylan convinces us that he belongs to the magical 5 % group.

Edited April 5, 2012 by Negative Nancy

[Cypress25]

I just dont want it, and I dont see why some of you seem to want to force upon me your belief that its no big deal.

That's not what people are saying. They're simply pointing out the fact that your words and your actions don't match. You keep saying it's important to you to remain virus-free, but you don't take the necessary precautions. If you don't want to date someone with oral herpes, that's fine. But that means you'll have to stop kissing women who have not yet been tested for HSV, because you're putting yourself at risk every time you do.

 

The only difference is your knowledge of the woman's HSV status. You're saying you won't kiss a woman if you know she has oral herpes. But you will kiss a woman if you don't know that she has oral herpes. That's the stupid part. Basically, you're saying you feel safe as long as you're ignorant.

 

It is not true that passing a joint or sharing a drink are high risk. HSV is rarely, if ever, spread by means other than skin to skin contact.

That's not true. Oral herpes is most often spread by means other than skin-to-skin contact. That's why it's so common. Most people with oral herpes contracted it in childhood. Not because they were sexually active when they were children, but because many children share food, drinks, chapstick, silverware, or toothbrushes with their friends or family members. They don't know any better. I started getting cold sores when I was 7 years old. Believe me, at that age I had never kissed anyone. I know a lot of people who get cold sores, and for most of them, it started before age 12. They didn't get it from kissing, that's for sure.

 

Genital herpes, on the other hand, is much less common because it is usually spread by skin-to-skin contact. Only because people don't use their genitals to touch food, drinks, silverware, etc.

 

The implication is that, for those who don't have the virus, avoidance of contracting it by choosing not to date someone who does, is uncool and irrational.

No, the irrational part is that you don't take any other precautions to avoid the virus. You don't want to date someone who has it, fine. But that doesn't mean you're safe from it. Most people get oral herpes before they're old enough to date. So if children manage to contract oral herpes without dating or kissing anyone, how do you think you might eventually catch it? The same way they did, probably.

 

You also seem to think you're likely to catch it if you date someone who has it. Not so, as long as you don't share anything with them or touch their lips when they have a cold sore. What you're doing is a bit like refusing to shake hands with someone who has AIDS. You're not actually in any danger. The one precaution that you do take is totally unnecessary. If you're trying to avoid oral herpes, you're doing it the stupid way.

[RachR]

I've read that it's highly unlikely you will spread the HSV1 oral virus until you have cold sores popping up. As soon as you feel that tingling, burning sensation, that's when you need to be careful. I have read that as soon as the cold sore is gone (that means completely - including redness), the virus is no longer contagious. However, with my exes I always wanted to be extra careful and I was paranoid so I would wait 3 to 4 days after it completely cleared up before engaging in kissing, oral, etc., lol

Edited April 5, 2012 by RachR
added more information

[kaylan]

kaylan most likely has no clue, not surprising though and certainly nothing new .

 

I bet kaylan convinces us that he belongs to the magical 5 % group.

We are talking about HSN1 and HSV 2....nice try though bringing up a totally different virus with entirely different effects.

 

The risks are low when no cold sores are present, but there are still there. And you can't argue both sides, either, because those risks are equally low when no sores are present with a stranger who you don't know is positive or with a gf you do know is positive.

 

It really makes no difference to me if you date girls with HSV1 or not. But the logic is screwy if you kiss casually.

But again...my point is I wont knowingly hook up with someone who has herpes. What dont you get about that? Im allowed to make that decision without catching flack for it. The same way someone wouldnt wanna hook up with someone who might give them the flu and cause them to miss work if they knew they had the flu. Youre the one with screwy logic in my opinion.

 

I dont want to kiss a person who I know has herpes. End of discussion.

That's not what people are saying. They're simply pointing out the fact that your words and your actions don't match. You keep saying it's important to you to remain virus-free, but you don't take the necessary precautions. If you don't want to date someone with oral herpes, that's fine. But that means you'll have to stop kissing women who have not yet been tested for HSV, because you're putting yourself at risk every time you do.

 

The only difference is your knowledge of the woman's HSV status. You're saying you won't kiss a woman if you know she has oral herpes. But you will kiss a woman if you don't know that she has oral herpes. That's the stupid part. Basically, you're saying you feel safe as long as you're ignorant.

 

That's not true. Oral herpes is most often spread by means other than skin-to-skin contact. That's why it's so common. Most people with oral herpes contracted it in childhood. Not because they were sexually active when they were children, but because many children share food, drinks, chapstick, silverware, or toothbrushes with their friends or family members. They don't know any better. I started getting cold sores when I was 7 years old. Believe me, at that age I had never kissed anyone. I know a lot of people who get cold sores, and for most of them, it started before age 12. They didn't get it from kissing, that's for sure.

 

Genital herpes, on the other hand, is much less common because it is usually spread by skin-to-skin contact. Only because people don't use their genitals to touch food, drinks, silverware, etc.

 

No, the irrational part is that you don't take any other precautions to avoid the virus. You don't want to date someone who has it, fine. But that doesn't mean you're safe from it. Most people get oral herpes before they're old enough to date. So if children manage to contract oral herpes without dating or kissing anyone, how do you think you might eventually catch it? The same way they did, probably.

 

You also seem to think you're likely to catch it if you date someone who has it. Not so, as long as you don't share anything with them or touch their lips when they have a cold sore. What you're doing is a bit like refusing to shake hands with someone who has AIDS. You're not actually in any danger. The one precaution that you do take is totally unnecessary. If you're trying to avoid oral herpes, you're doing it the stupid way.

Please keep ignoring facts. You WILL NOT transmit oral herpes from sharing foods, drinks, or joints. And kids usually get herpes from their parents or relatives. Mouth kisses are fairly common thing for a little kid to give their mom or dad or grandparents.

 

Viruses die outside of the body. They need a host to survive for long.

 

Dont skip reading this, this time. Ill post this again. Feel free to find more info as well.

 

http://asktheexperts.plannedparenthood.org/?p=2604

Edited April 6, 2012 by kaylan

[kaylan]

No one is saying kaylan doesn't have he right not to date people with Hsv. It just seems dumb to eliminate the majority based on a Harmless virus whose presence does not indicate any other characteristics. In the grand scheme if dating (and viruses) it just seems like there are better things to worry anout not to mention his discrimination is full of false precision. He is only eliminating the minority (people who know they are infected and let him know) of those who pose a real risk.

Identify this majority. Because stats are all over the place for how many people actually have HSV....and Ive read that both viruses can be transmitted to either the mouth or genitals, so excuse me for not wanting to deal with that.

 

Who cares if someone only has a minority of people to date. Theres MORE than enough people in the world, so a minority is still a ton of people. Ill ask you this AGAIN, would you tell a racial minority not to date within their race just because theres less of them? Plenty of black and asian people in America date within their race even though they are a small part of the population.

 

So its stupid of you to tell someone they shouldnt date who they wanna date.

Yes I know–– only I didn't say right. The implication is that, for those who don't have the virus, avoidance of contracting it by choosing not to date someone who does, is uncool and irrational.

 

Now, anyone can see how it would be interpreted as uncool from the perspective of someone who is infected. They don't want to be treated like a leper or labeled as damaged goods simply because of the infection. So they argue that it's illogical and uncool to make discrimination part of the selection process. This is logical. And for the very same reason, plus not wanting to have the blisters, it's logical that if you don't already have it you wouldn't want to get it. Therefore, it naturally follows that dating someone who you know is likely to give it to you would be considerably less appealing than if they didn't have it, or dating someone else who doesn't have it.

It's all extremely simple––people who don't have it don't want it, and people who do have it don't want to be stigmatized by it. The conflict arises when one group tries to convince the other that their perspective is not valid.

This.

 

/thread

[RachR]

Please keep ignoring facts. You WILL NOT transmit oral herpes from sharing foods, drinks, or joints. .

 

Actually yes you can. It is recommended on medical websites and other health websites for contagious individuals not to share cups and such. I actually got the virus after sharing my lipbalm with a few of my friends as a kid.

Edited April 6, 2012 by RachR

[spookie]

I don't care who you date. I just think your fear of herpes is irrational. For how common and harmless it is, if I didn't already have it, I'd be resigned to catching it. I would rather deal wih it than take precautions not to get it, like halfing my dating pool (or whatever the percentage is) or avoiding sharing food, drinks, etc. I guess out risk/ reward analysis is just different, because Ive never considered it much of an issue.

[RachR]

Mayo clinic, recommended precautions to prevent spreading oral herpes:

 

Cold sore: Prevention - MayoClinic.com

 

Avoid sharing items. Utensils, towels, lip balm and other items can spread the virus when blisters are present.

[kaylan]

Actually yes you can. It is recommended on medical websites and other health websites for contagious individuals not to share cups and such. I actually got the virus after sharing my lipbalm with a few of my friends as a kid.

Site your information the same way I did.

 

Anything Ive read says HSV 1 cannot be transmitted from sharing food and drinks. Dont just say youve read something somewhere, back it up like I have.

 

You can only assume you got the virus from sharing lip balm, because all sources say thats not possible. If anything you got it from a cheek kiss from a friend or family member.

I don't care who you date. I just think your fear of herpes is irrational. For how common and harmless it is, if I didn't already have it, I'd be resigned to catching it. I would rather deal wih it than take precautions not to get it, like halfing my dating pool (or whatever the percentage is) or avoiding sharing food, drinks, etc. I guess out risk/ reward analysis is just different, because Ive never considered it much of an issue.

Dude...Im not saying I wont talk to or be friends with people who have herpes, I simply rather not date them.

 

Would you call it fear if a woman prefers not to date a man who smokes? So lets be real.

 

To me herpes isnt harmless. I dont want blisters anywhere on my body. I dont like skin problems. Ive dealt with acne growing up and hated it. I still deal with it a little actually. And I also have to deal with annoying curly beard hair that leaves me with ingrowns if I dont follow my shaving ritual properly. So excuse me for not wanting to deal with yet another skin issue.

 

People shrink their dating pool with a variety of preferences. I prefer todate slim women and many Americans arent so slim...however, where I live (NY), theres plenty of slim women even if they arent the country majority. So its no biggie. Whatever someones preference, they will have someone to date.

 

And it doesnt matter if I wont date someone from your camp, because many other dudes will. Its no biggie. Dont blame me, blame those in your camp who informed me that HSV 1 can end up on my junk...so Id rather not deal with any virus all together if it can cause annoying skin conditions, especially if it can end up on my little guy.

Edited April 6, 2012 by kaylan

[threebyfate]

Actually yes you can. It is recommended on medical websites and other health websites for contagious individuals not to share cups and such. I actually got the virus after sharing my lipbalm with a few of my friends as a kid.

This is accurate:

 

People contract HSV-1 by touching infected saliva, mucous membranes, or skin. Because the virus is highly contagious, a majority of the population is infected by at least one herpes subtype of HSV-1 before adulthood.

 

Oral Herpes Symptoms, Pictures, Treatment, Transmission and Outbreak Stages by eMedicineHealth.com

[Annie123]

I get cold sores from time to time and have gotten them since I was a little kid. I respect anyone who chooses not to date me for this reason. That never has actually happened though. Most people don't consider cold sores a deal breaker but I don't blame someone for making it one.

 

As to spreading the virus through sharing drinks, chapstick, etc. it is possible but the risks are low. You can read about it here: Non-Sexual Transmission of Herpes.

[xxoo]

But again...my point is I wont knowingly hook up with someone who has herpes. What dont you get about that? Im allowed to make that decision without catching flack for it. The same way someone wouldnt wanna hook up with someone who might give them the flu and cause them to miss work if they knew they had the flu. Youre the one with screwy logic in my opinion.

 

You are allowed to make that decision.

 

And we are allowed throw flack.

 

/thread. (<---That's me playfully mimicking you. Imitation in the sincerest form of flattery! )

[Cypress25]

And kids usually get herpes from their parents or relatives. Mouth kisses are fairly common thing for a little kid to give their mom or dad or grandparents.

 

I have never in my life kissed any relative on the mouth. In my family, we occasionally give hugs. That's it. Yet somehow, I contracted the virus by age 7.

 

Site your information the same way I did.

 

Anything Ive read says HSV 1 cannot be transmitted from sharing food and drinks. Dont just say youve read something somewhere, back it up like I have.

 

If you insist: Herpes - oral: MedlinePlus Medical Encyclopedia. In case you don't feel like reading the whole thing, here are the most relevant quotes:

 

"Herpes viruses spread easily. You can catch this virus if you have intimate or personal contact with someone who is infected. You can also catch it if you touch items infected with the herpes virus, such as infected razors, towels, dishes, and other shared items. Parents may spread the virus to their children during regular daily activities."

 

"Here are some tips to prevent mouth sores:

 

• Avoid direct contact with herpes sores.
  
• Wash items such as towels and linens in boiling hot water after each use.
  
• Do not share utensils, straws, glasses, or other items if someone has oral herpes."
  

This is from the NIH website, so it's as reliable as you can get.

 

 

 

You still have not addressed the fact that the only precautions you take are based on ignorance. If you're so keen on avoiding oral herpes, why do you not demand an HSV test from every woman you want to kiss? Do you have a "don't ask, don't tell" policy? You feel safe as long as you have no idea what her HSV status is?

 

 

Your position is that you won't knowingly date someone who has oral herpes. Fine, but you're OK with unknowingly dating someone who has oral herpes? Doesn't make any sense, dude. You're so paranoid about this virus, but you don't even ask women about it before locking lips with them.

[123321]

Your position is that you won't knowingly date someone who has oral herpes. Fine, but you're OK with unknowingly dating someone who has oral herpes? Doesn't make any sense, dude. You're so paranoid about this virus, but you don't even ask women about it before locking lips with them.

 

It's common for many people to behave irrationally and then try to place those behaviors into a rational framework, in fact the most effective marketing campaigns count on this.

 

You're fighting human nature here.

[RachR]

Site your information the same way I did.

 

Anything Ive read says HSV 1 cannot be transmitted from sharing food and drinks. Dont just say youve read something somewhere, back it up like I have.

 

You can only assume you got the virus from sharing lip balm, because all sources say thats not possible. If anything you got it from a cheek kiss from a friend or family member.

 

I did - look at the post right above yours. And Cypress25 has linked reputable information as well.

 

And no, I don't assume I got it from lip balm, I know I did.

 

Anything you've read says HSV1 can't be transmitted in such ways? Anything I've read besides that Planned Parenthood site you linked, which is putting false information out there, has said they can.

 

Look, I've been dealing with these annoying things for 13 years now - I've done my research.

Edited April 6, 2012 by RachR