Is that a sign or a punishment?

[Disciple]

Hello to everybody.

 

I never thought I would be posting a thread asking for advice and support, but what happens in my life lately feels like someone is punishing me or trying to show me something I don't understand.

 

I've been married for some years and have wonderful kids. In the past, and in all my relationships, everything was about planning and control. I had lots of fun young, met a great girl later, married, kids, happy life.

 

A year ago, I was going travelling abroad and passed by a good friend. We have been friends for years and always had great contact, with great discussions. She was single and her last relationship ended badly.

 

To cut a long story short, I stayed at her place, we had some wine and we kissed. Nothing more. I was certain that it was a small incident and nothing would follow. However, we started talking long hours, texting many times per day and I fell madly in love with her.

 

She tried to push back because she already had a, not so pleasant, similar experience and out of respect for my family, but I was totally blind. I chased her like mad. I did the most extreme things I could imagine, and despite my many relations in the past I was experiencing something new and unique.

 

Eventually she accepted, amazed by my conviction as she later told me, and we started dating last summer. The next few months were fantasic. We couldn't see each other so often, due to distance and careers but we were constantly communicating and the moments we were spending together were perfect. She represented everything I could ask for physically, emotionally, mentally and spiritually. Our previous friendship had evolved to an intense relationship.

 

She introduce me to things I didn't believe and a new way of living completely different from my standards. For the first time in my life, I trully believed I had found the One. A concept that I had long believed doesn't exist. She was my inspiration to become better everyday.

 

At some point, she started talking about our future and building something together, and that I should clarify the situation in my life. This pressure was not constant, but was coming and going. Being someone who values her freedom and independence, she had moments when she wanted a stronger commitment and moments when she was much cooler about it.

 

Before Christmas, I had a long discussion with my wife, decided that our relation cannot move forward. I was already living separately for some months.

When I told my gf she didn't seem so excited about it and kept saying that she expected something more radical and definite.

 

A couple of weeks ago, I had to cancel the weekend with my gf due to a long professional trip abroad. Before that I had another long discussion with my wife and we talked about next moves (divorce etc.) and logistics with kids.

While I was away, my gf started being absent, distant and there was tension over the phone (our small fights were only over the phone since face to face it was pure magic). At some point I pushed her to tell me what was going on there, and she replied that it was over. That she needed to be alone and she could not feel something as strong as I was feeling and therefore could not built on that, not being certain. She even reacted negatively when I told her about my divorce, claiming that I was putting too much pressure on her.

 

I tried to call back, but she only sent a message, explaining that it was the best decision for her, that she was cutting all forms of communication and wished me good luck with my life. She also added that I should try to open up to people more and suggested that I see a specialist. That has been a point of disagreement throughout our relationship and in my view the reason why she first got interested in me. I have always been very secretive about my feelings and emotions (most of my friends claim they only know very little of me) and she has always tried to open me up. Sometimes successfully, other times without success. In any case, she is definitely the person that I opened up the most, knows me better than anyone and the first person I felt dependent and relying on.

 

Since we broke up and after a few unsuccesful attempts to call her (the same day) I am in a NC situation. Not because I have found the strength to move on, but because I still hope. To make the story even more complex, her best friend is a specialist in relationships (professional). I called her, talked with her and she is definite about the fact that the two of us are not over yet and there is much more to come. All I need to do is give her space and time to breathe, she told me.

 

In conclusion, I feel a bit lost. Why she ended our relation? What did I do wrong? Was it about me not opening up? Was it because I didn't ended my marriage earlier, or because I tried to end my marriage? Was it all about the challenge to open me up and prove that I was not so strong and independent? Should I trust her friend and wait? Should I keep getting her news from her friend who presents herself as my ally? Or believe her message and move on (she is a pretty strong minded woman)? And finally, is that some kind of punishment or a sign I should go back to my family?

 

One thing is for sure, she is the most unique person I have ever met, I have never been in such a perfect harmony with anyone and she can read my mind and feel my heart so easily, it's almost scary. If there is a chance that we could be back together, i would wait forever just to get the opportunity to make her happy everyday. But if she would be happy only without me, then I would be ready to disappear forever. I just feel terrible that not only I lost my loved one, but also the great friendship we use to have.

 

Sorry for the long post.

 

Thanks in advance for the advice

 

PS Needless to say that sleeping became a luxury, work performance is criticaly low, I cannot focus, I cry a lot and I wrote her many night letters that were never sent the next morning. I miss her eyes, smile and perfume. I miss her caress, her jokes, her ideas. I miss the way she looks, acts and is. I miss everything about her.

[ReneeMalcolm]

Very touching and rather sad. You are obsessed with her and honestly speaking even though you sound sincere to her, you have been rather selfish. Because what about your wife? What about your childrens' welare? Their future? All gone for what? One woman?

 

So in some ways (if you do have a religion and you do believe in the existence of God), it might be punishment for cheating on your wife and upsetting your family. However on the other hand, it seems like you might be clinically depressed as well. If you cannot concentrate on your work and you're thinking about her caress and perfume etc so intensely, it clearly isn't normal. I don't believe in medication i.e. anti-depressants etc so I would strong suggest you don't succumb to any addictive substances even alcohol. But you should talk to someone senior about this situation. Why not speak to one of your parents? Or an older sibling? As with pyschiatrists, again they're in for the money so can't say they'll offer the best advice.

 

I think in your case it might be difficult to move on just yet, because as said before, this is a very serious case of obsession. You need to be careful that you don't start stalking this woman and also be careful not to harm yourself in any way.

[Disciple]

ReneeMalcolm many thanks for the advice.

 

You might be right, it might be some sort of obsession. But it is different because we know each other for years. I could easily write down a list with her weaknesses and I have seen her in her worst moments. What is different is that for the first time I had a relationship built upon a friendship and I even learned to like those weaknesses.

 

As for the rest:

 

I am so optimistic and happy about life and I value so much the gifts we have been offered, that I would never get depressed or harm myself. A few days ago, I accepted a professional assignment that will keep me far away and busy, and I really look forward to the experience. Still at this stage I just cannot get her out of my mind.

 

I have the same view with you on psychologists / psychiatrists. The thing is that I don't have, or have lost, the habit of talking to people. I guess I will have to deal with that one alone.

 

Clearly I have been selfish in my behavior and I really regret hurting my wife. Fortunately kids have not yet understood anything, so there is still time to come back upon my return. I just don't know if it is the right decision. For me, for her and for the kids. Definitely I will not go back if I'm not free of my obsession first.

 

I would never stalk her, as there is nothing I value more than freedom and independence. Additionally, I know that she has a major issue with her proper independence and control over everything.

 

Yesterday I sent a message to thank and say goodbye to her friend the psychologist. I felt that being in contact didn't help me to move on. We have spoken twice since the break up and the main focus was on me and how to get over it. Out of the blue, she wrote back to me to not speak to her for a week, because my ex founded that disgusting. Disgusting? Please give me a break!!!

 

It just doesn't make sense. When she asked to break up, although she did it in the most improper and disrespectful way - me being in and out of meetings - on the cellphone on the other side of the world, and with a final SMS message, I feel that I was very decent.

I text her back two days later, telling her that I respect her decision and wishing her good luck. Since then strict NC, with absolutely no communication.

I just don't understand her reaction and her fixation in feeling pursued. Except if she can read my mind.

 

In any case, this incident was positive, because it revealed her vulnerabilities, fixations and lunatic nature I have idealized. Maybe the beggning of healing.

 

It still hurts though, when not only you lose the one you consider the right for you, but she also treats with such disrespect and cruelty. It's a shame because we had something unique and magic and since sometime she is doing everything to spoil and offend it.

 

If it's not some kind of weird psychological strategy to push me away, or the whole relation was not a game for her (the challenge of seducing me rather than building up something), it doesn't make sense.

 

Until now I focused on facts. What I need to understand is the underlying messages and rational of those facts. Why the change? Why the break? Why in such a way? Why those absurd (in my view) reactions? That would help me understand and move on.

 

Maybe a female member (who understands women's psychology) or someone more experienced could bring some light.

 

Thanks again for your valuable advice.

[stitch702]

Well put yourself in her shoes? How does she think she feels about breaking up a marriage? Not just breaking up a marriage, but breaking up a family? She probably feels some sort of responsibility on that part. Also being with a man who cheated on his wife and left her for another woman doesn't really carry a positive connotation. There is that saying, "Once a cheater always a cheater." If you had already been divorced then that would be ok for her, but come on she probably feels like she's in a bad position.

 

Now I'm not here to judge you because there may probably be some other circumstances that may have occured in your failed marriage that i don't know about. But just based on your post you do sound rather selfish.

 

As far as being secretive, why should you be? The point of having a relationship is to be able to open and as honest with that person as possible. No one should be so secretive where it could be mistaken for deception.

[Disciple]

Thank you Stitch.

 

Sometimes we simply don't want to see the obvious. What you wrote made me think a lot and realize some things.

 

In fact it's not the first time she is in such a situation. In her latest relationship, she was ready for long term commitment but the guy finally went back to his family after two and a half years of parallel relationship.

 

So I guess she feels like she can only be a second choice or she is afraid of a déjà-vu. Or maybe she entered in our relationship, afraid of losing me as a friend once our status changed.

 

Whatever the reason you are right, I should put myself in her shoes. I was just blurred by the fact that she knew my family situation and she responded so positively and made long term plans.

 

You are right to call me a cheater. I am and will not look for excuses. The circumstances in my marriage do not justify my actions. The thing is that going back now, it would be even worst if I'm not certain about my feelings. My wife is in the process of healing / detachment and upsetting her again, without being certain, would be unfair for her and the family. And it would make me feel even more selfish, going back after being rejected by someone else.

 

I guess the mistake happened the moment I've fallen in love and now it's hard to correct it. I lost a family and her as partner and as friend. I was right only while picking the title of the thread.

 

I should start apologizing to everyone I've hurt. And then try to rebuild my life. If she is the One, destiny will take care of us.

 

Thank you so much. You stated the obvious that I just couldn't see.

 

As far as being secretive. Well this a very long story related to control and not letting go. Maybe some other time.

[Redbul]

She doesnt want a "real" relationship... You said you are the second married man she has been with? That speaks volumes about her. She wants to be the other woman for whatever reason... That is her issue to figure out.

You took it too seriously and really... Acted very selfishly and immaturely. You are a husband and dad, you cant act on every desire you have without thinking of the repercussions to others..

 

I hear your pain but it shouldnt be about her, it should be about you trying to rebuild your trust with your wife since it sounds like you are staying with her.

Focus on getting yourself together and forget her... She's not your dream woman.... You're romanticising her because she's a challenge to you.

[Lizz k]

If she loves you then she should see this through. I'm that person and I waited for him to settle his divorce. I'm not the other women though. Spoil her maybe she will change her mind? But make sure this is what you really want. Family always come first. Have u thought of why your marriage fail? If you Marry your wife because you fell in love with her then chances are good to reconcile again.

[CaliBabe]

Reading this post was both sad and ironic to me. You have a wife... Marriage is serious. You made promises in front of your wife, family and God to hold this marriage sacred. This woman (being your wife) offered you "for life". Thats huge! I feel so sorry for your wife. You think you feel terrible? Your mistress/girlfriend left you... Your wife had her HUSBAND and father of her children leave her, for another woman no less. That's much worse! There's a saying that says "never leave something good to find something better, because once you realized you had the best, the best has found better."

 

You have been incredibly selfish. And although you mentioned that your kids are too young to understand right now, they will someday.

 

As for your girlfriend, I imagine she is feeling really terrible about breaking up a family. I think any normal human being who did that would feel absolutely terrible about themselves. She might find it easier to start with someone new who does not have baggage. It's possible, she wasn't happy about waiting for you for so long. Maybe she felt strung along. I think possibly feeling like the "second woman" so to speak really hurt her and she woke up and felt like she deserved better.

 

Either way, I think you really need to take some time to yourself and figure out what your doing. If you are making the right decision and if your girlfriend is really right for you. Possibly seek some help on why you feel emotionally dependent on her. Going NC always gives perspective. It's a tough situation and I feel empathy towards your hurt. I hope you are able to find what you are looking for whether it's with your wife or girlfriend but it's probably best to go NC and figure out where things are heading with a solid plan in mind. This forum is great resource and the people here give great advice.

[Disciple]

Thank you all for the valuable comments and sorry for taking your time with long posts, but it's a rather complicated case.

It wasn't my intention to give all details, but I guess it's important for you to understand in order to advise.

 

Basically, there are two different issues: the problems in the marriage and the other woman. I must clarify right from the beginning that as personalities they are totally different, but they are both exceptional and I admire them.

 

It is the first time I cheated on my wife after 15 years of marriage, the last three under less than ideal conditions. The marriage problems have not disappeared so going back, right now, is out of question. I need to be sure that I have no feelings for my ex gf and I really want to spend the rest of my life with my wife.

 

Yes, we are great parents, we have an excellent understanding, we handle ideally family logistics, and our two kids are (or at least were) very happy. However, tenderness and intimacy were lost since more than three years. I don't know why, I don't who is responsible, it just happened. Our whole life was turning around the kids. The kids and the logistics. We ended up being like brother and sister, or best friends. I'm not saying we lived parallel lives but we were more like two very good friends raising children rather than a real couple. We tried to change things many times but when career (my work schedule is not ideal), kids and logistics kick in it's almost impossible to rebuild anything.

 

When I felt that our older daughter started realizing things, and told me that she would never get married cause marriage sucks (and I promise we were extremely discreet with our intense discussions), I decided to move out for a while. This is the point where our views diverged completely.

 

My approach may be too radical, or selfish if you want, but I don't intend to spend the rest of my life pretending. I wanted something more from my relationship and decided to move out last June since it didn't work. My wife on the other hand, believed that a marriage is forever, every sacrifice was justified and we should stick together even being just like friends. She even went to the point to propose that I stay there for another 5-6 years, until our daughter goes to college and then get divorced.

 

When I moved out, she knew I could meet someone else and only asked me to handle it in the best possible way for the kids. Today I leave 4 hours drive from my family, and my ex gf lives in a neighbor country.

 

I admire my wife for her morale and integrity. She is a friend to me, the perfect mother and she could sacrifice everything for her family. It's just that after some years of marriage our feelings are not the same. She wants me back, not because she is still in love with me or I am in love with her but to keep the family together. I wish we could fall in love again like when we met but it's something one cannot plan.

 

The "other woman" may not be my dream one, but she is a great person, that I love and respect. She has a great intuition, understanding and she is admired by everybody. She had helped me in the past several times, especially when I had issues with my career changing hospitals and cities. For a year, before being together, we started communicating very often due to professional issues and there was a very close bonding developed. She would understand when I had an issue and be there every time I needed her, without asking anything in return. Most important, she tried really hard to open me up (me being an introvert) and bring me inside her social environment.

 

We started an intimate relationship about a month after I moved out and our love affair was a constant honeymoon. Being a social and professional bee, she introduced me to many people that helped my career take off. We traveled a lot, tried new things, discovered new places and experiences. We would speak on the phone many times per day, she would surprise me dropping by during my professional trips and she would take care of me like none ever did before. I was the center of her attention and she was mine. And in her house I finally felt like home again. Yes I idealize her but not just because she is a challenge (being very good looking, a reference in the medical field, sociable, admired and independent) but also because she seemed to care so much for me and I had with her the time of my life. She insisted that my wife learns nothing about us as she preferred that I first initiate the divorce procedure and then we settle together. The thing is that when I had the divorce discussion with my wife, my gf freaked out and two weeks later dumbed me.

 

Does she want to be the "other" woman? Maybe yes, maybe no. I guess she has an issue with commitment and after a long relation in the past she turned down everyone who attempted to move to the next level. The last time she was with a married man (her boss in a way) she was clearly the victim. He seduced her, she changed countries and jobs for him, he had a double life for three years and at the end he dumbed her just before moving in with her.

 

I clearly feel guilt towards both of them.

I feel guilty towards my wife because I don't have the same view on our relationship as she does and I'm not ready to pretend in the hope that kids won't understand.

All I can do is not upset her before being certain about my next move and be there for the kids, even from a distance. I wish we could rebuild something solid but I just don't know the way.

 

I feel guilty towards my ex because if she felt uncomfortable by the fact that I was married, then I should have understood it and not waste a year of her life. Still I have some questions: Why everything ended soon after I declared my wish to be with her and only with her, something that she's been asking almost since the beginning? And why she just disappeared with an impersonal message, when our 5 year friendship and 1 year relationship was based on open and creative communication. Why she suddenly doesn't want to hear a word about me? And how can it be that one month ago she was making plans for a lifetime and now she burns every bridge and tells everybody that there is no chance we can be together ever?

 

All that given, I assume that you are right. Continuing strict NC may be the best option for me; but until when? I will try to clarify my thoughts, feelings and perspectives and will decide once I feel less tense and blurred. Still, some explanation of the underline reasons would help me greatly.

 

Thanks to all

 

PS. CaliBabe, the clarity and understanding I gained two days in the forum, I didn't get them during a month of continuous thinking and suffering. It's a great place to get support.

[ReneeMalcolm]

Hi again,

 

Your story is quite heartbreaking in many ways. More so because I can tell by your language and expression that you are an educated professional and indeed a deep thinker. What is your star sign, if you don't mind me asking? Anyway, here's what I have to say:

 

a) Your girlfriend seems like an exciting personality - she clearly does not have family values, is beautiful, independent and that is why you find her attractive. It's normal by the way for introverts to admire people like that. We feel secure around such people - they are our strength, they complete us. I understand that. But given the fact that she does not have family values and previously had an affair with her boss, plus had an affair with you knowing that you were married makes me think that she isn't a particularly 'respectable' person with high morals. I'm not saying she's sleazy, but you know that some women change men rapidly and cannot settle down with one. Whereas there are some like your wife who are faithful and committed and make sacrifices for the sake of their children. So given her personality and the fact that she has already broken up with you, it seems to me that even if she comes back in your life, it will only be temporarily - forgive me for saying this, but she might only seek 'emotional/ sexual' support when she is lonely. Other than that she will never belong to just you. Would you like to be with a woman who doesn't belong to you completely? I guess not. You'll feel jealous and betrayed. You'll argue and eventually what will happen? The relationship will end. So you'll be back where you started.

 

b) I know you don't feel the same way for your wife the way you did before - but just because you don't feel that intimacy and yet are still best friends, would you want to give her up because their isn't any emotional warmth? I think you might regret this in the future because you'll loose a devoted and faithful friend. Sometimes you don't need a beautiful and sexy woman to spend time with who is actually nasty - sometimes you just need a good person with values and morals who is permanently there for you and who you can count on. Someone who acccepts you with all your shortcomings.

 

c) As regards your daughter, if the poor thing has already started saying that 'marriage sucks' from this age, then think about her future. Children belonging to dysfunctional/ divorced families usually suffer. So you should think about your children first. They obviously cannot understand your intimacy issues with your wife and they certainly cannot understand your infatuation with this woman, so all they will remember for the rest of their lives is the fact that their dad cheated on their mother and deceived them and abandoned them. What you like to be one of those fathers?

 

See I know that you have made up your mind but you're only posting these comments to let it all out. So I know nothing I will say or the others are saying will change your mind - so at the end of the day are you here to listen to our advice and act on it? Or will you just follow your instincts? Because if you follow the latter course of action then whatever we all have said is a pure waste.

 

Another thing - you had asked our views on why this woman had backed off not that you are willing to leave your wife. My reasoning is that a) she probably didn't think that you would leave her that is why she kept saying it - when you made a decision, she thought 'oops, I didn't mean it' b) she probably does feel guilty as well for breaking up your marriage c) since she has had bitter experiences previously with men, knowing that you too have cheated on your wife, she feels you will do the same to her d) she's a characterless person who has encouraged someone to commit adultery and she's probably had enough of you - she wants someone else now.

[Disciple]

Many thanks to all of you.

 

Renee I really appreciate your comments, especially the harsh part regarding my kids.

 

No, I don't want to be one of those fathers and I've spend the whole day thinking what would happen if my wife would leave me. You are right. Not having her as a friend, it would hurt me a lot. Thinking about everything, I also realized that my ex gf may have boosted my ego and career but my wife has always been there, to take care of everything so I can have a career, abandoning in the process hers.

 

No, I have not made up my mind, otherwise I wouldn't be posting here.

I have already accepted an assignment for setting up a hospital in Africa and will be isolated for quite some time. I need to think, feel, find myself and probably restart playing some music (abandoned hobby when the kids were born).

 

It scares me the idea of explaining everything if I go back to my wife, but it wouldn't be possible to return and not let her know everything. I know she will get hurt and I hope she will show understanding.

 

I still believe that my ex gf is a great person. Sensitive, intellectually superior and with high moral standards. Just her community activity helping others is enough to convince me. I just believe that her previous experience has affected her so much that she developed some kind of insecurity with men, hidden under her excessive self confidence.

 

I would love to be with her forever, but I guess we were never ment to be together. If she comes back, she will have to prove that we can be just friends, without taking any risks, and assuming that I can see her only as a friend, too.

 

PS. Renee, I am a Cancer, my wife Leo and my ex gf Acquarius.

Why? Do you think it was the stars' fault?

It would be great, but I guess it was just mine.

[ReneeMalcolm]

Hi there,

 

Well I wish you all the very best and hope and pray that things work out between you and your wife. My advice would be not to tell her everything that has taken place between you and your girlfriend. That will simply break your wife's heart and the emotional scars that you inflict on her will never heal, trust me. So just convey it in a subtle way - if the need arises you should conceal some facts as well. Sometimes we have to be cruel to be kind. Telling someone the entire truth might devastate them. So heed this caveat.

 

Secondly and I say this as a neutral arbiter because obviously I don't know any of you personally, your girlfriend might be a philanthropist and a humanitarian however I do have to say that she certainly doesn't seem like someone with 'high morals' otherwise she would have found a single man and would not have had an affair with a married man with kids. When we are infatuated with someone we try to justify their actions as well as our own - but bear in mind that from a third person's point of view, all the wrongdoing that you both have committed in this scenario is not exculpatory.

 

So the star signs don't have anything to do with this - inquiring about peoples' star signs is actually a hobby of mine and I was trying to assess your traits. Cancerians are usually nice people, sensible, helpful and honest. So stick to what you are and what you should be. This woman has encouraged you to do wrong.

[Disciple]

Many thanks again to all of you for the useful insight and advices.

 

I'm leaving the day after tomorrow and will only have the possibility to visit the forum occasionally.

 

Happy Easter to you and your beloved ones.