TaraMaiden Posted April 3, 2012 Posted April 3, 2012 my point is - does he see it this way too, and agree with you, or is this your interpretation of what you think he wants/is best for him? does he know this is your opinion?
Professor X Posted April 3, 2012 Posted April 3, 2012 LOve your insight, but I really do think I am a crazy, amazing enough individual for a guy to be totally happy and at peace with me, and only having me in their bedroom. Sowing his wild oats and fulfilling his fantasys is the main thing I am getting at. I do think I am enough for a guy, I Just need to make sure it is HIM. I hope you see the oxymoron here.
oldguy Posted April 3, 2012 Posted April 3, 2012 How close are the two of you in age? Admittedly I have no idea who you are or what your personal norms are but when you said; "I will always remember him as the guy who helped me recover from a mental illness I had that almost killed me". "He also brought out my true personality, when I was a shell of a person". "I could go on about how he has changed my life, so at the very least, he will be the catalyst that got me out of the dark part of my life". It made me think of something called transference which is a loose psych term that refers to positive, intense feelings for another person who is helping you with important issues in your life. I had to think, for just a moment if this might be part of what your feeling; a feeling of being grateful & even a bond for all he has done for you & at the same time a sense of guilt for what you perceive his wants or needs are?
Author Leigh 87 Posted April 3, 2012 Author Posted April 3, 2012 How close are the two of you in age? Admittedly I have no idea who you are or what your personal norms are but when you said; "I will always remember him as the guy who helped me recover from a mental illness I had that almost killed me". "He also brought out my true personality, when I was a shell of a person". "I could go on about how he has changed my life, so at the very least, he will be the catalyst that got me out of the dark part of my life". It made me think of something called transference which is a loose psych term that refers to positive, intense feelings for another person who is helping you with important issues in your life. I had to think, for just a moment if this might be part of what your feeling; a feeling of being grateful & even a bond for all he has done for you & at the same time a sense of guilt for what you perceive his wants or needs are? I will definately look into it, I will google it now in fact, thanks! His wants and needs, are to be very close to a girl he loves. He loves being very close to a girl, spending most pf his free time with them. He also has a preference, for me to have 3 somes with him.
Author Leigh 87 Posted April 3, 2012 Author Posted April 3, 2012 my point is - does he see it this way too, and agree with you, or is this your interpretation of what you think he wants/is best for him? does he know this is your opinion? We both know he is " young, crazy, wanting to be able to have sex with more than one women". Those are his words, and what stage in life I thought he was at. I am fairly certain he will be completely fulfilled and very happy with just me for now, though. I enjoy and have a fetish, watching my boyfriend have sex with other women, so 3 somes are also for me, to satisfy my own fantasy. I am just making sure he is very happy with me for now, so that a 3 some is a very mild bonus he accepts readily, but does not " need".
RedRobin Posted April 3, 2012 Posted April 3, 2012 Here's how it works for me. If I'm in love with a girl, REALLY in love with her, I won't be able to have sex with anyone else. But... this isn't because I don't find them attractive, or I wouldn't enjoy it on some level, or I wouldn't have some sort of urge to. All that is still there and probably wouldn't ever really go away. No, the reason I wouldn't want to is simply because I couldn't betray a girl like that. I couldn't go through with it and cause that sort of pain, especially when the girl I loved would be the one I'd much rather be having sex with anyway. Guys who cheat most likely think the same way, but have a less developed sense of compassion and moral responsibility. I agree with you that it doesn't necessarily mean they don't love their partner. I'm the same way... partly because of the sense of compassion and moral responsibility (although, plenty of people find a reason to toss out that compassion if they get pissed enough)... Mostly it is because the 'fantasy' is often better than reality... then all I'd be left with is a (likely) damaged relationship with that person not to mention one's own sense of self and integrity. Relationship being... with them as a fellow human being (because I just used them as a receptacle or tool) and with them as a possible friend. So, I've enjoyed the occasional 'crush' when I'm in a committed relationship and enjoy all of the energy that brings. But just realize it is fantasy and short lived. It all happens in my little brain and noone gets hurt I just come home and give my partner all that lovin' energy :love:
oldguy Posted April 3, 2012 Posted April 3, 2012 I will definately look into it, I will google it now in fact, thanks! His wants and needs, are to be very close to a girl he loves. He loves being very close to a girl, spending most pf his free time with them. He also has a preference, for me to have 3 somes with him. If you simply google transference you will get a wide scope. An example of what I was thinking would be in the case of therapist & client relationship; often a client will believe they have feelings of "falling in love" because they have shared so much intimate details of their lives with their therapist & the therapist has helped them so much to recover from painful emotional issues. One of the greatest detriments to counselling is that most people over time begin to think of there therapist as their friend which causes the client then to begin posturing.
Kamille Posted April 3, 2012 Posted April 3, 2012 I am just making sure he is very happy with me for now. I'm uncomfortable with the way you phrase it here: making sure he's happy with you. Caring about your boyfriend's happiness is normal. Doing things that make him happy is a part of that. Supporting his goals another. He should also be doing things that demonstrate he cares about your happiness and your goals. But there's a limit. Your self-worth shouldn't be on the line. Your boyfriend either loves you as you are now, or you're actually better off without him. You are who you are, with your own needs, your own trajectory, your own well-being to focus on. You deserve love as that person. Love isn't a reward for managing to please someone else.
Author Leigh 87 Posted April 3, 2012 Author Posted April 3, 2012 If you simply google transference you will get a wide scope. An example of what I was thinking would be in the case of therapist & client relationship; often a client will believe they have feelings of "falling in love" because they have shared so much intimate details of their lives with their therapist & the therapist has helped them so much to recover from painful emotional issues. One of the greatest detriments to counselling is that most people over time begin to think of there therapist as their friend which causes the client then to begin posturing. I read about patient - therapist conter - transferance, it was the second point I read. I believe you may be on to something, but I do believe I love him for who he is, and what we are together, in a romantic way; we had a weird tension, a romantic force without the events that unfolded; the fact I was a brioken person and he saved me COULD have falsely made me feel love. but then there was still a romantic element to begin with. The time I spend with him, and the closeness we share, and the fact we are best friends where sex is important but secondary to our companionship, signals a healthy relationship, and not just a form of transferance from my part. Although, his mother diet suddenly when he was 23. They were extremely close, and it affected him badly. He is not an emotional dude, with his mates, not unless he is drinking and saying drunken antics and saying : I love u" to his mates, as even un emotive males do when drunk. His mother looked after him a lot, and did pretty much everything for him; now, I have taken on that role! I love it, though, I love to be in love with him and be the care taker, the one to cook dinner and clean. Where as he is the one who has helped me in social ways and shown me the way I actually want to live my life.
Author Leigh 87 Posted April 3, 2012 Author Posted April 3, 2012 OLD GUY - I do think there might be an element of transferance; it may have lead to a sense of LOVE, but not the romantic, being : in love" with a person, BEYOND their ability to replicate a person that they loved. We definately had a special feeling about one another; it felt " different" like something as meant to happen from even before we first met. It felt like rthe stars alligned. We had a strange romantic feeling, but I was not really a developed or complete women, yet. I had not brought out my true personality; it had not been brought out. I think romantic feelings + my love and caring that mimicked his dead mother + the fact I was alone and finally found a person to have in my life after years desolate = real love, but not being " in love" with all of a persons being. LAter on, we did fall in genuine love, in all of the sense; romantically, and he also fell in love with the person I have become. I know it is really hard to make sense of it all, but he got a feel for who I was and liked it a lot, but I was really under developed, personaloity wise. Once my personality was brought out, THAT is when he fell in love with me, in every sense of the word.
TaraMaiden Posted April 3, 2012 Posted April 3, 2012 So let me get this straight: He doesn't think he's finished sowing his wild oats - but he doesn't want sex with anyone but you - he has a low sex drive, but will have threesomes, although he's happy to go without such activities... you organise/initiate threesomes, because you think this will give him the sex life he deserves or wants - and it also turns you on - but he doesn't know, or realise your true motive behind the threesomes.... so essentially, what you're doing, is indulging your sexual fantasy, and giving his possible sex drive room to vent - even though he's not initiating straying.... I'm beyond understanding the point of this.... I have recently pointed out that we are mammals. mammals are programmed to have multiple partners. humans are conditioned to be monogamous. this isn't natural, but it's an accepted imposition in some societies. What you're essentially doing, is creating situations where cheating is ok for him to do, because you're there to oversee it and it turns you on - but you won't go with another man, and if he screws another woman behind your back, you'd be upset..... If it's a choice or enigma you're pondering on....your choice is simple, as i see it. either agree to be monogamous, and commit to one another - or admit you can't be, and be content to either both have flings, or just one of you.
oldguy Posted April 3, 2012 Posted April 3, 2012 OLD GUY - I do think there might be an element of transferance; it may have lead to a sense of LOVE, but not the romantic, being : in love" with a person, BEYOND their ability to replicate a person that they loved. We definately had a special feeling about one another; it felt " different" like something as meant to happen from even before we first met. It felt like rthe stars alligned. We had a strange romantic feeling, but I was not really a developed or complete women, yet. I had not brought out my true personality; it had not been brought out. I think romantic feelings + my love and caring that mimicked his dead mother + the fact I was alone and finally found a person to have in my life after years desolate = real love, but not being " in love" with all of a persons being. LAter on, we did fall in genuine love, in all of the sense; romantically, and he also fell in love with the person I have become. I know it is really hard to make sense of it all, but he got a feel for who I was and liked it a lot, but I was really under developed, personaloity wise. Once my personality was brought out, THAT is when he fell in love with me, in every sense of the word. In almost every case however, people have a hard enough time managing monogamous relationships long term. But if this is working & you are both comfortable, why are you asking why?
Author Leigh 87 Posted April 3, 2012 Author Posted April 3, 2012 So let me get this straight: He doesn't think he's finished sowing his wild oats - but he doesn't want sex with anyone but you - he has a low sex drive, but will have threesomes, although he's happy to go without such activities... you organise/initiate threesomes, because you think this will give him the sex life he deserves or wants - and it also turns you on - but he doesn't know, or realise your true motive behind the threesomes.... so essentially, what you're doing, is indulging your sexual fantasy, and giving his possible sex drive room to vent - even though he's not initiating straying.... I'm beyond understanding the point of this.... I have recently pointed out that we are mammals. mammals are programmed to have multiple partners. humans are conditioned to be monogamous. this isn't natural, but it's an accepted imposition in some societies. What you're essentially doing, is creating situations where cheating is ok for him to do, because you're there to oversee it and it turns you on - but you won't go with another man, and if he screws another woman behind your back, you'd be upset..... If it's a choice or enigma you're pondering on....your choice is simple, as i see it. either agree to be monogamous, and commit to one another - or admit you can't be, and be content to either both have flings, or just one of you. I just had a brief conversation with him ( phone) about it. He said that he is sick of me making a big deal out of it; that it is something I brought up and initiated, that while he would like to do it, as it IS a fantasy of his ( lez porn), he is not really that set on it, and does not like me analyzing it and making a big deal of it. I told him that I just need to know that I am enough to make him as happy as he CAN be; he says yes, I am, he does not " need" 3 somes, and that he HATES me going on the internet, where people tel me he must not love me for liking 3 somes. I guess I am on here, just being extra cautious about 3 somes, and rightly so; after all, they are something you have to be really sure about. Yes, they have worked really well for us, and satisfied BOTH our deapest fantasis ( for me to watch him at it, and for him to watch me and a girl) Basically, 3 somes fulfill a sexual fantasy, for both of us, and no emotions are involved therefore no one ever gets hurt. It seams to really work for us, however I am going to be cautious, and get the perspectives and opinions of other people, many intelligent have experiences with their friends or directly themselves. I think I was right to gain the perspectives and read real life encounters of 3 somes gone wrong! I learnt that it is very complicated for most people, and rarely works. No wonder I am very cautious. LOl, he really does not think much about it, 3 somes, besides when he wanks or watches porn, which is does not really do all that often. He has a high enough sex drive, also, but really enjoys more that life has to offer, and does not only see sex as " up there" with things to do.... It is great and he likes it, but he becomes incredibly horny after 3 days without it, and it makes is more intense and far better. So, 3 somes are not even something he thinks about much all, and in fact he is sick of even contemplating them, analyzing if it is for reasons thay do NOT indicate him being unsatisfied with me, and etc. As far as he is concerned, he loves me, he is with me, I am the one who brought it up, he does not need them to be happy with me, he simply apprecioates my offer of them and enjoys them when he has them.
Author Leigh 87 Posted April 3, 2012 Author Posted April 3, 2012 In almost every case however, people have a hard enough time managing monogamous relationships long term. But if this is working & you are both comfortable, why are you asking why? We are both SO comfortable with 3 somes, and I find it utterly fascinating that they feel so natural and they bring us so close, when they have the OPPOSITE affect for MOST other people!! Most women feel sick at the thought of their man being with other women, and yet I get off over seeing my guy have sex with another women in front of me? And yes I truly love him. I have had boyfriends before and knwo what true love is. I just think relationships are so different, and that is completely fascinating to me.
Negative Nancy Posted April 3, 2012 Posted April 3, 2012 (edited) I need a guy who only wants me, and accepts my offer of a 3 some as an added perk of being with me that makes no sense whatsoever, you need a guy who only wants you, yet he's free to participate in threesomes where he obviously "needs" other women besides you (or else he would decline the offer)? i don't need to understand the sick logic behind that, do i.... Edited April 3, 2012 by Negative Nancy
Mme. Chaucer Posted April 3, 2012 Posted April 3, 2012 I have decided that, although I believe some guys CAN find a women they are really in love with ANd be able to have a 3 some; I do not want to have anymore 3 somes, until he has literally prooved I am enough for him. Leigh. I am not dismissing your relationship, your mutual love, or the character of your boyfriend. But you CANNOT be analyzing things like threesomes in a "love" relationship to the minute extent that you do, accept and even celebrate them, and then make a complete about-face and reject them in a thread on the Internet and have it be a healthy way to function. You NEED to be able to come to your own point of view about such things. You are swayed by what happens here, and by your boyfriend, way too much. Also, having (or even "providing" as "perks") threesomes in order to control your boyfriend's attachment to YOU is not doing you any favors and you will probably suffer seriously because of doing so. Do you understand what I am saying? You get lost in your head, it seems, and tend to get very obsessive. Is that true? 2
oldguy Posted April 3, 2012 Posted April 3, 2012 (edited) We are both SO comfortable with 3 somes, and I find it utterly fascinating that they feel so natural and they bring us so close, when they have the OPPOSITE affect for MOST other people!! Most women feel sick at the thought of their man being with other women, and yet I get off over seeing my guy have sex with another women in front of me? And yes I truly love him. I have had boyfriends before and knwo what true love is. I just think relationships are so different, and that is completely fascinating to me. Although non-monogamous sexual practices within relationships have probably been in existence since the dawn of relationships it is thought that it really took off during the 1960's "sexual revolution" with the introduction of the birth control pill and the emergence of treatments for many of the STI's that were known at that time. Note; that were known at that time Psychotherapists and relationship experts have varying opinions on a third person introduced into a relationship. While all would agree on ground rules like open communication & complete uncompromising agreement I would think, but even with that it largely believed that it damages the relationship over the long haul. One of the things I've seen repeatedly in case studies essentially says; While the sex was often exciting, it ruins the long term intimacy as well as introduced jealousies even in the most open relationships over time. Even in polygamous marriages where all parties are part of a "family" the general rule is only two at a time. Since it is working for you & yours at this time I still ask; why are you asking why? It's probably not good long term but it doesn't sound like it's something your going to stop doing anytime soon. it may be a little like smoking; even though it's not good long term your young & it feels good now Edited April 3, 2012 by oldguy
Professor X Posted April 3, 2012 Posted April 3, 2012 Leigh. I am not dismissing your relationship, your mutual love, or the character of your boyfriend. But you CANNOT be analyzing things like threesomes in a "love" relationship to the minute extent that you do, accept and even celebrate them, and then make a complete about-face and reject them in a thread on the Internet and have it be a healthy way to function. You NEED to be able to come to your own point of view about such things. You are swayed by what happens here, and by your boyfriend, way too much. Also, having (or even "providing" as "perks") threesomes in order to control your boyfriend's attachment to YOU is not doing you any favors and you will probably suffer seriously because of doing so. Do you understand what I am saying? You get lost in your head, it seems, and tend to get very obsessive. Is that true? Why are you married
Mme. Chaucer Posted April 3, 2012 Posted April 3, 2012 Why are you married Because I am such a fabulous catch! Ask those guys on the "feminism = Nazism / Satanism" thread!
make me believe Posted April 3, 2012 Posted April 3, 2012 Leigh I don't think anybody has ever claimed that when you are in love you lose all attraction to others. But seriously when it comes to the point where you're making up "theories about men" to justify and normalize what you and your bf are doing, it REALLY makes me think that you are not nearly ok with it as you insist you are. If you are fine with him having sex with other girls, then ok. Let him have sex with other girls, stop feeling like you have to justify it to others. Your happiness with it is all you need. You & your bf seem to put this weird importance on your "youth" and this "stage of life" in your 20s. It seems artificial to me, like you think this is how people in their 20s are supposed to be & act. It comes off really weird. I think YOUR BOYFRIEND wants to have threesomes and doesn't want sexual exclusivity, and you are making up theories about MOST MEN being like this to make yourself feel better about it. Sorry but my H wouldn't have a FFM threesome with me even if I asked him to, and he has no problem giving up other women for me. And he never went through a crazy phase in his 20s of needing sexual variety, either. I've had a lot more variety than he has, actually. I don't think that you actually know what YOU want. You just know what your bf wants, and what you think he wants, and you think that you should automatically be ok with those things too. If you were with a guy who ONLY wanted YOU and had no desire for threesomes or sex outside of your relationship, would you still be here insisting that you love threesomes and "men need variety" etc etc?? 2
Els Posted April 3, 2012 Posted April 3, 2012 I'm curious why you're still posting about this, Leigh. From the way you describe it, you're cool with your bf having some occasional sex with other women, and he's cool with it too. Given that, why is it still going through your head? It's been about a month since you made the other thread, and you're asking again. Is it genuinely because of what 'other posters' say? If it's still bugging you by now, there are only 2 possible explanations: 1) You aren't REALLY okay with it, you're just trying to justify his actions by the old (and often untrue) axiom of 'most men in their 20s want this'. 2) You are really okay with it, but responses from other anonymous strangers bugs you so much that you make tons and tons of posts trying to defend your standpoint. You also bring it up again one month later, when the other thread has died, so clearly it is persistently in your head. I'm not liking either of the options, do you?
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