Do most guys not click with most women on a friendship level?

[PhillyDude]

Here's something interesting about male/female friendships: women are greatly in favor to them; men are greatly adverse to them.

 

women are in favor of them with someone they don't want to be in a relationship with

[RedRobin]

If you do a favor for a guy, it is understood that he now owes you a favor back. Women, on the other hand, don't believe in returning favors. QUOTE]

 

All real friendships are reciprocal. You just need to find some agreement between what that 'favor' is that she's supposed to do for you that doesn't involve her giving you sex. Not a big deal.

[RedRobin]

women are in favor of them with someone they don't want to be in a relationship with

 

Wrong. I've learned to get over my 'crushes' and have friendships with men that I previously wanted a relationship with.

 

I don't consider it a huge blow to my ego that any one guy isn't interested in me. Then again, if all I EVER had were male friends and no men ever wanted a relationship with me, I'd perhaps start to develop a bit of a complex.

[Jane2011]

women are in favor of them with someone they don't want to be in a relationship with

 

I'm most in favor of them with someone I don't want to be in a relationship with who also doesn't want to be in a relationship with me (often, he's even with another woman). I am also okay with them if the guy is mildly attracted to me, but I can tell he isn't pining for me or anything, i.e. he's attracted to a lot of women, and I'm not particularly any more appealing than most women he knows, even if he does find me attractive and would get with me if I wanted to.

 

I don't want friendships with guys who actually like me. There's a guy who I went on a date with on New Year's Eve who I ended up not liking that way (we'd known each other for a while before the date). I told him I wasn't interested in dating, and he said okay. He frequently texts me and wants to "be friends." But I don't want to be friends with him because he likes me.

 

In other words, the more a guy likes me romantically (who I do not like), the less I want him as a friend. I think most women are this way.

[Oxy Moronovich]

I'm not sure I totally agree with this. I am certainly capable of "clicking" with women on a non-sexual level (as in, being able to have an interesting interaction without any sexual tension).

 

The problem is that women usually want to be friends with men for very specific and selfish reasons. A woman's idea of "friendship" with men involves accumulating a male "fan club" comprised of beta males who are attracted to her and supply the much needed attention and validation. A secondary objective is getting these guys to do favors for her.

 

Personally, I don't believe in being friends with a woman I'm attracted to. I also don't believe in doing favors for women. If you do a favor for a guy, it is understood that he now owes you a favor back. Women, on the other hand, don't believe in returning favors. They seem to think that being in possession of the magic vagina automatically grants them social privileges (and I can't totally blame them either, as there's no shortage of beta supplicators who think they can get into a woman's pants by being her errand boy).

I am capable of interesting interactions with women on a platonic level as well. All guys, I'd say. But I'm talking about deep friendships. I'm talking about when people say, "That's my dear and close friend I go to when I want to feel better." Few guys have that kinda relationship with women, whether they are attracted to the women or not.

 

Jane2011, said she's close friends with her former ex and there's no sexual tension. Yeah right. Perhaps not on her side but there might be some on his side. So many women get into "friendships" with men and delude themselves into thinking he wants friendship and nothing more. Then when they find out the guy wants a full-blown relationship she is shocked and says, "I didn't know he liked me like that." and cuts off the relationship with him. How does Jane know her man doesn't wanna make her jealous by showing her his new girl and kissing in front of her?

 

I had a female friend who I wasn't attracted to (though I'm sure she was attracted to me). She was real friendly. Had a lot of male and female friends. And we had fun. But the friendship could never go deep. With women, you've always gotta guard yourself cuz yer afraid of offending them. That's what creates the inevitable picket fence separating men from women.

[Jane2011]

Jane2011, said she's close friends with her former ex and there's no sexual tension. Yeah right. Perhaps not on her side but there might be some on his side. So many women get into "friendships" with men and delude themselves into thinking he wants friendship and nothing more. Then when they find out the guy wants a full-blown relationship she is shocked and says, "I didn't know he liked me like that." and cuts off the relationship with him. How does Jane know her man doesn't wanna make her jealous by showing her his new girl and kissing in front of her?

 

Well, for starters, he ended the relationship with me. Don't think I broke his heart but keep him around just to remind him of what he can't have. (Haha, that's a laugh.) He ended the relationship with me and got together with a new girl for nine months. It wasn't to to make me jealous then, nor is he now kissing a new girl just to make me jealous. He got together with a new girl then because he liked that girl, and he tells me about his situations now because we're friends.

 

And I never said that there's no sexual tension between men and women who are in friendships. There's always sexual tension, in my opinion. I'm saying that it's a question of degree, and often, if people are around each other often enough and are used to a 'general friendship' with each other, that degree is fairly small and the sexual tension is overridden by just the plain camaraderie and socializing about common interests, common acquaintances, common experiences, etc.

[Jane2011]

I am capable of interesting interactions with women on a platonic level as well. All guys, I'd say. But I'm talking about deep friendships. I'm talking about when people say, "That's my dear and close friend I go to when I want to feel better." Few guys have that kinda relationship with women, whether they are attracted to the women or not.

 

Women and men can be friends on that level. You just don't think so because you aren't capable of it (so far). At least two of my male friends have talked to me for hours about my deep, heartfelt situations. (And I'm there for them in the same way). I could call either of them on the phone with the same degree of emotional outpouring as I do with women friends. And it's not because they're beta and would do anything I ask and listen to anything from me because they're trying to get with me. Like I said, they have women of their own. They're just good friends that way.

[A O]

Do most guys not click with most women on a friendship level?

Many guys can befriend "and" click with women easily enough. Many are not interested in simply befriending women though. Only some have trouble befriending women.

 

I find that I have never clicked with the majority of women, on even just a feriendship level. It's so rare that I do.

 

Is this normal, is this how it is for most guys?

Only in a shared interest sense (a workplace for example) do I befriend women. And those friendships tend to stay only within the particular shared interest they arise from.

 

Or could this have some sort of connection to my failure with women on a romantic level?

Possibly. The more one is around the opposite sex the easier it is to develop relationships (friendship or romantic) with them.

 

 

.

[Oxy Moronovich]

Well, for starters, he ended the relationship with me. Don't think I broke his heart but keep him around just to remind him of what he can't have. (Haha, that's a laugh.) He ended the relationship with me and got together with a new girl for nine months. It wasn't to to make me jealous then, nor is he now kissing a new girl just to make me jealous. He got together with a new girl then because he liked that girl, and he tells me about his situations now because we're friends.

The fact that he broke up with you doesn't change what I said. He could have easily broken up with you and hoped he could manipulate you into being a f*ck buddy. Looks like he failed.

 

And I never said that there's no sexual tension between men and women who are in friendships. There's always sexual tension, in my opinion. I'm saying that it's a question of degree, and often, if people are around each other often enough and are used to a 'general friendship' with each other, that degree is fairly small and the sexual tension is overridden by just the plain camaraderie and socializing about common interests, common acquaintances, common experiences, etc.

How many threads are there on the internet of women being shocked that their close male friend confessed their love for her? LS alone must have hundreds.

 

Women and men can be friends on that level. You just don't think so because you aren't capable of it (so far). At least two of my male friends have talked to me for hours about my deep, heartfelt situations. (And I'm there for them in the same way). I could call either of them on the phone with the same degree of emotional outpouring as I do with women friends. And it's not because they're beta and would do anything I ask and listen to anything from me because they're trying to get with me. Like I said, they have women of their own. They're just good friends that way.

LOL. I've had friendships with women. I said that. I've talked on the phone for hours with them. I've gone to movies, hung out at the mall, went rollerblading, bike riding, thrown the football around, visited them at their kickboxing classes, and still I felt the relationship was a hassle. And yes, looking back, I certainly was a beta male for getting into those relationships. Having a gf and a female friend doesn't stop you from being a beta male.

 

Like I said, guys NEVER feel like they can truly unwind with women and feel comfortable like we can around other guys. Jane, why don't you ask your male friends these questions: "Do you interact differently with me than with your male friends? Do you feel like you can act more like a guy when you're with other men than with women? Do guys bond on a much stronger and more understanding level with each other than with women? Do you always feel you have to watch what you say with women than with men?"

 

I'm damn sure you'll find out most of your "guy friends" agree with me.

[Jane2011]

Come to think of it, all of my male friends are good with women. They're not players, but they are guys who get women on a regular basis (i.e., they don't go for years and years without a girlfriend). I think this is why they make good friends; they're relaxed and don't have any emotional dependence on my being their friend. It's not strangely "meaningful" for them.

[threebyfate]

There are a limited number of males and females I click with, when it comes to close friendships. But this has more to do with my own pickiness, than anything else.

[kaylan]

Right. Ok. Keep telling yourself that. My long-married male friends and relatives all have female friends.

 

Or... sisters. Either way, these men have become accustomed to viewing women as more than just a hole to plug.

 

Sorry if that rocks your little boat, Oxy.

They have female friends because they already have someone to fill the sex role.

[Oxy Moronovich]

Come to think of it, all of my male friends are good with women. They're not players, but they are guys who get women on a regular basis (i.e., they don't go for years and years without a girlfriend). I think this is why they make good friends; they're relaxed and don't have any emotional dependence on my being their friend. It's not strangely "meaningful" for them.

I guess you've just proven my point then. A friendship should be meaningful. A friendship should have emotional dependence.

 

At times I think of the male friends I've lost contact with. What are they doing? Are they happy with their jobs, or life in general? How much have they changed?

 

When I think of my former "female friends", I don't care about them nearly as much. Being a friend with women just didn't have the same emotional release as with male friends, where I could be a guy and have someone who is the same position as me understand where I'm coming from. With women, there wasn't ever any of that.

[threebyfate]

I strongly suspect that many of the male members who claim they can't befriend women would have no idea of the difference, were I to create a new "male" username and befriend them.

 

It's all about perception.

[Oxy Moronovich]

I strongly suspect that many of the male members who claim they can't befriend women would have no idea of the difference, were I to create a new "male" username and befriend them.

 

It's all about perception.

You're confusing me. How is it possible to befriend someone on an anonymous dating forum?

[threebyfate]

You're confusing me. How is it possible to befriend someone online?

Semantics. Once again, perception.

 

I have many interests that reside in the traditional male domain but also have interests that reside within the traditional female domain. It's only a matter of discussing topics that interest the other person.

[Jane2011]

The fact that he broke up with you doesn't change what I said. He could have easily broken up with you and hoped he could manipulate you into being a f*ck buddy. Looks like he failed.

 

Theoretically, for other people, a guy who broke up with his girlfriend may take that angle. I'm not saying it never happens. All I can tell you is that I know my particular situation better than you do. He never desired post-breakup-sex from me. Often, on nights we went for a drink, he'd be the one to say "I'm tired, I better get home" first. Often he wanted to not have a second drink or third drink. (One easy way for people to fall back into it with each other is to be a little drunk). Even one of my friends, who marvels at my being able to be friends with him, has said, "Have you guys ever had drinks together and ended up almost kissing?" The answer is no. I don't really want to, and neither does he. He doesn't want to drink with me because he's not trying to make an f-buddy out of me or have drunken sex with me. He's my friend.

 

LOL. I've had friendships with women. I said that. I've talked on the phone for hours with them. I've gone to movies, hung out at the mall, went rollerblading, bike riding, thrown the football around, visited them at their kickboxing classes, and still I felt the relationship was a hassle. And yes, looking back, I certainly was a beta male for getting into those relationships. Having a gf and a female friend doesn't stop you from being a beta male.

 

Maybe having a gf and a female friend doesn't necessarily stop one from being a beta male. Regardless, none of my male friends are beta males. They range from being "above average success with women" to downright awesome with them (enviable-level good).

 

Like I said, guys NEVER feel like they can truly unwind with women and feel comfortable like we can around other guys. Jane, why don't you ask your male friends these questions: "Do you interact differently with me than with your male friends? Do you feel like you can act more like a guy when you're with other men than with women? Do guys bond on a much stronger and more understanding level with each other than with women? Do you always feel you have to watch what you say with women than with men?"

 

No two friendships are the same, even with same-sex girlfriends. I act differently with one female friend than I do with another female friend. Still my personality, but I'm not exactly the same with every single person. That's normal. It'd be pointless to ask my guys friends those questions because there's no way the answer could be yes about them acting "the same with me as with...(so and so)"

 

In any case, of course there's a little difference in the way one is with male friends vs. how she is with female friends. That doesn't change the fact that they're good friends. At any rate, I'm DEFINITELY a lot closer and more my real self with a couple of my male friends than I am with some of my female friends. You keep trying to make it a gender thing when it's not. It's a friendship-depth thing.

 

Also, to address one of the things you asked, though. I've had male friends tell me that they are emotionally closer to women than they are to men. It's understood to a lot of men that it's manly to talk to other men about sports, hobbies, intellectual matters, interests, activities, etc. A lot of men turn to their female friends about emotional matters of the heart because they know the women will be receptive to it. I'm not saying men never having emotional discussions with other men, but I know men who have said they didn't, that they keep the friendships with men to making business plans, talking impersonally, the cool-guy thing, etc., and the emotional talk for women. So yeah, I'd say men often form bonds with women that are deeper than their bonds with men.

[Jane2011]

I guess you've just proven my point then. A friendship should be meaningful. A friendship should have emotional dependence.

 

When I say they don't attach strange "meaning" to the friendship, what I'm referring to is romantic meaning. The friendship is meaningful in terms of camaraderie and caring and there is emotional friendship dependence. But there is not romantic significance to it at all. That's what I like in a male-female friendship.

 

At times I think of the male friends I've lost contact with. What are they doing? Are they happy with their jobs, or life in general? How much have they changed?

 

When I think of my former "female friends", I don't care about them nearly as much. Being a friend with women just didn't have the same emotional release as with male friends, where I could be a guy and have someone who is the same position as me understand where I'm coming from. With women, there wasn't ever any of that.

 

Well, that all makes sense for you. You don't bond with women. Other men do.

[gaius]

I grew up in a house full of women so I prefer hanging out with them. Never got all this angst about the friend zone either, I've gotten together with a few women who started out as friends. They sleep with you if you have what they look for sexually, not if you start out as friends or on a date.

[Jane2011]

LOL. I've had friendships with women. I said that. I've talked on the phone for hours with them. I've gone to movies, hung out at the mall, went rollerblading, bike riding, thrown the football around, visited them at their kickboxing classes, and still I felt the relationship was a hassle.

 

You haven't had friendships with women then. I think you don't want to sound like a guy who can't have friendships with women, so you say that you can and have. But if you say you've spent time with women and thought it was a hassle and don't care about what happens to them and don't think about them and their well-being, you don't really have friendships with women.

 

A friendship with a person means you care about them. I've had friendships with men because I've not only spent time with them, but I also care about what happens to them, and I don't think being around them is a hassle. There are also men who spend time with women and care about what happens to them and don't think it's a hassle (but rather, an enhancement) to be around them. Those men have friendships with women, but you don't.

[RedRobin]

I suspect the same men who can't be friends with women probably couldn't be friends with a gay male either. They'd be all worried the guy was trying to get into their shorts. ha ha. As if every gay man is into every man they come across.

 

Seriously... not every man is sexually attracted to every woman and vice versa. Some of us are ok with that and can find ways to appreciate each other.

 

One of my best male friends is an ex as well. Just last night I went to an improv show where he is performing and hung out with his girlfriend. Oh, FYI... they are talking marriage now, those two.

[kaylan]

^Wrong.

 

The reason why certain people of either sex cannot be friends with one another is because of sexual tension the person feels themself.

 

So a straight guy would have an easier time being just friends with a woman hes not attracted to or a man (gay or straight) vs having to try being friends with a woman he finds attractive.

 

The thing you are not understanding is people in general, men and women, seek out their friends based on attraction. It doesnt have to be overtly sexual attraction either. Ive seen women seek out male friends the same way men seek out female friends. A lot of the reason why some women end up with platonic male friends they dont find any sort of attraction to, is because those males sought her out, not the other way around.

 

Good looking dudes have no shortage of women trying to be their friends. Know why? Because these women arent that different from the men who try to be "just friends" with the unavailable woman they find attractive. And you being friends with an ex does not prove my point wrong at all. When people are taken, they are more easily able to have opposite sex friends because they already have someone to fulfill them romantically.

Edited April 2, 2012 by kaylan

[Oxy Moronovich]

Theoretically, for other people, a guy who broke up with his girlfriend may take that angle. I'm not saying it never happens. All I can tell you is that I know my particular situation better than you do. He never desired post-breakup-sex from me. Often, on nights we went for a drink, he'd be the one to say "I'm tired, I better get home" first. Often he wanted to not have a second drink or third drink. (One easy way for people to fall back into it with each other is to be a little drunk). Even one of my friends, who marvels at my being able to be friends with him, has said, "Have you guys ever had drinks together and ended up almost kissing?" The answer is no. I don't really want to, and neither does he. He doesn't want to drink with me because he's not trying to make an f-buddy out of me or have drunken sex with me. He's my friend.

I don't believe you. Somewhere in there one of you is still pining for the other. When it comes out you'll remember me. By the way, your man may be pretending not to be interested because he knows when you ignore women they become more interested in you.

 

 

 

Maybe having a gf and a female friend doesn't necessarily stop one from being a beta male. Regardless, none of my male friends are beta males. They range from being "above average success with women" to downright awesome with them (enviable-level good).

Sure, they do.

 

Obviously, you're not gonna admit that these guys are either beta males or, if they truly are great with women, then they are not close friends with you.

 

 

No two friendships are the same, even with same-sex girlfriends. I act differently with one female friend than I do with another female friend. Still my personality, but I'm not exactly the same with every single person. That's normal. It'd be pointless to ask my guys friends those questions because there's no way the answer could be yes about them acting "the same with me as with...(so and so)"

You don't wanna ask them those questions because it would mean I'm right and you're delusion that they are close to you would be shattered.

 

You haven't had friendships with women then. I think you don't want to sound like a guy who can't have friendships with women, so you say that you can and have. But if you say you've spent time with women and thought it was a hassle and don't care about what happens to them and don't think about them and their well-being, you don't really have friendships with women.

You're missing the point. The women thought it was a friendship. Just like many women think they have guy friends when they really do not. I bet most guys who have been friends with women feel the same way. Unfortunately, the female friends are clueless to these feelings.

 

I suspect the same men who can't be friends with women probably couldn't be friends with a gay male either. They'd be all worried the guy was trying to get into their shorts. ha ha. As if every gay man is into every man they come across.

The discussion is regarding gender not sexuality. Did you not read the thread topic?

 

Seriously... not every man is sexually attracted to every woman and vice versa. Some of us are ok with that and can find ways to appreciate each other.

Yes, we find ways to appreciate each other by getting into a sexual relationship with one another.

One of my best male friends is an ex as well. Just last night I went to an improv show where he is performing and hung out with his girlfriend. Oh, FYI... they are talking marriage now, those two.

:rolleyes: times 1,000!

[SincereOnlineGuy]

Do most guys not click with most women on a friendship level?

 

 

 

It isn't about the specifics of you not 'clicking' with women.

 

 

Men simply don't caaaaaaaaaaaaaaaare, and that is the backbone for what seems to you like your individually not "clicking" with women that you don't see as romantic interests.

 

 

Of course that sounds harsh, somehow, but it is more factual than slanted in any way.

Edited April 2, 2012 by SincereOnlineGuy

[Jane2011]

I don't believe you. Somewhere in there one of you is still pining for the other. When it comes out you'll remember me. By the way, your man may be pretending not to be interested because he knows when you ignore women they become more interested in you.

 

Nope. You're wrong. I've liked men other than him. Like, at least four since he and I broke up. I'm in love with some other guy currently. My ex has had long conversations with me about the other guy, listened to me talk about sex with the other guy, etc., etc. He doesn't give a sh*t about it, nor do I give a sh*t about his sex and dating life (jealousy-wise, i mean: we give a sh*t in terms of friendship and wanting the best for the other person).

 

You just don't want to believe it because you seem to hate the fact that other people can do things that you can't. I implore you: Deal with the fact that people are capable of friendships with the opposite sex.

 

I can see you trying to make an argument 'in general,' but it's a little ridiculous to try to tell people exactly what's going on in their particular personal relationships.

 

We're not pining for each other.

 

Sure, they do.

 

Obviously, you're not gonna admit that these guys are either beta males or, if they truly are great with women, then they are not close friends with you.

 

Again, just presuming to know what people are like. They're not necessarily the most alpha male you can get. I didn't say they were. I'm saying they're not sad-sack guys who don't get women. They do. Every guy who is a male friend of mine has had a girlfriend who lasted 6 months or more (usually a year or more) a few times in the time that I've known him and been friends with him. They're guys who just socialize with women in general.

 

The male friend I"m thinking of who's "great with women" is merely 5'6" and doesn't have the best looking face. I think you're confusing my saying that they are "great with women" with the idea that I have these hottie friends who can get any woman they want. Therefore, you think there's no way I could be friends with such men. That's not what I'm saying. This friend of mine who's 5'6" and doesn't even have the best looking face....is super charismatic and just somehow very good socially. I've known him for exactly six years now. He's had three girlfriends (and a few other flings) in that time period, one of them a girl who has been hung up on him for a long time. She's not crazy-beautiful. She's just hung up on him.

 

A guy doesn't have to be "hot" or "alpha" to not be beta/"bad with women"/"ass-kissers of women"

 

You don't wanna ask them those questions because it would mean I'm right and you're delusion that they are close to you would be shattered.

 

They're close to me. They tell me things they don't tell other male friends or other female friends.

 

I can't believe how hostile you are to people having quality friendships with the opposite sex. It reeks of jealousy.

 

You're missing the point. The women thought it was a friendship. Just like many women think they have guy friends when they really do not. I bet most guys who have been friends with women feel the same way. Unfortunately, the female friends are clueless to these feelings.

 

It's so sad you think that way. Seriously.

 

Not every male is going to be friends with every female, true. There are plenty males I know who don't become good friends to me. But males and females are definitely capable of being very close as friends without it being all about underlying sexual motives. If you can't do it, just deal with that. Don't tell other people that their friendships aren't real.

Edited April 2, 2012 by Jane2011