Ross MwcFan Posted April 1, 2012 Posted April 1, 2012 The tone of this post seems kinda off, even though I don't mean it to be, this isn't about me looking down on ambitious people or anything like that. I'm just trying to understand the whole thing more. A lot of people in the US seem to be all about ambition (much more so than us in the UK it seems). I hear a lot about these people complaining about others with no drive or ambition. Why is this, why is it so wrong for someone to be happy and content with their life, even if what they like to do a lot of the time is play on their Xbox? Why look down on them? What harm are they causing to anyone? Surely that's better than always having to chase something in order to feel happy and content in life? Okay, again, I don't mean for this to sound offensive, it is a genuine question, but is it jealousy, does it make you feel pissed off that some people don't need to put in hard work and constantly chase things in order to feel happy and content? Is that why you have contempt for non ambitious people? What if someone works at an okay job, but in their free time they enjoy playing Xbox, and seeing friends. Even though they're working, is that still not having enough drive, is it still not good enough? What should they do as well as working everyday in order to have drive or be ambitious? When you've achieved what you want in life, will you guys be able to feel happy and content, or will you still feel the need to chase something else? When someone has achieved everything they want in life, is it okay for them to not be ambitious anymore, or is that still a no no? Thanks.
Exit Posted April 1, 2012 Posted April 1, 2012 It's all subjective. I can't say I've ever met anyone who necessarily feels "contempt" for those who do not have the same level of motivation. People who work and constantly chase after things do just that, but I've never known any to "hate" other people who just want to play videogames or work a part time job. I've struggled to figure out which side of the argument I find myself on, is the goal in life to be content with what you have now even if it is less than ideal, or is the goal in life to work hard every day to get somewhere different? I find myself stuck in the middle, which actually sucks pretty bad, because I'm not content with where I'm at yet I don't feel a huge drive to do anything about it lol. I guess in my case I feel "neither" when in reality, the perfect answer would probably be "both", happy with where you're at now but always making an effort to find room for improvement. I suppose there could be jealousy involved on both ends of the spectrum, people who never give themselves a second to rest might not understand how someone with a simpler life could possibly be getting more enjoyment than they are, and people with relatively little going for them can feel jealous of those who find the drive to keep getting better things in life. 1
Author Ross MwcFan Posted April 1, 2012 Author Posted April 1, 2012 This bit should've read 'Okay, again, I don't mean for this to sound offensive, it is a genuine question, but is it jealousy, does it make you feel pissed off that some people don't need to put in hard work and constantly chase things in order to feel happy and content, whereas you do? Is that why you have contempt for non ambitious people?'
Feelin Frisky Posted April 1, 2012 Posted April 1, 2012 You're right about America having ambition as more of an obsession. More than any other country in western civilization America is a society in which "competition" is raised almost to the level of a fundamentalist religion. Our crazy nation even took the entire world to the brink of nuclear annihilation over what is essentially the argument between being able to make and keep as much money as you are able versus everyone sharing stuff equally. That's an admitted over-simplification but couldn't here have been a better way to go about settling differences in economic philosophy than pouring trillions of dollars into an arms race in which with one wrong turn of events, everyone dies horribly? Although that great argument between communism and capitalism is 20 years over, there's a major element in America who is lost without it and still carries on the same "either/or" argument that we must have a totality of free market capitalism or we will be living under a totality of socialistic artificial distribution of wealth. Meanwhile most of the rest of the world has moved on and mixes a bit of socialism with their capitalism and goes about their business investing in their own futures through taxation and investment in education and development. America is still partly governed by extremists who lie--they carry on as if any hybridizing of capitalism and socialism is a capitulation and slow down the entire progress of this once up and coming nation. Education continues to have no reform and is entirely "competition-centric". "Winner take all" is still the mantra here and many families live this religion very much to the core. They expect a competitive effort from everyone to "get in the game and win it" and don't know how to deal with those who either don't really want to win or play, but think the game needs to be re-thought so that there isn't just a few winners and mostly losers. This is what our "occupy Wall street" ,movement is about--the desire to live in a society that is not "winner take all" that make 99% losers. Those in the 1% don't want to hear anything about reform--they just want to control and own and look the other way when other suffer and die from disease and starvation. I know there are ways to create lots of winners that doesn't mean ending the old game. That is my personal struggle to succeed at and I want to win at it. Europe is much different and intellectualism has a much better foothold there. But is also has a longer history of class disctinction and resignation by many people to their "station" outside of the palaces. 2
johan Posted April 1, 2012 Posted April 1, 2012 An unambitious person is more likely to let the world fall down around them. If you hook your wagon to them, you'll have to either carry the load of maintaining things or you'll face a constant battle trying to get them to step up and get it done. People are admired who rebel against entropy by not only maintaining things but also building things. And they are more trusted and reliable. 1
KathyM Posted April 1, 2012 Posted April 1, 2012 I think most people are fine with others who live their life in the lifestyle they see fit, with the ambition they wish to have, as long as it's not hurting others. In the U.S., people get resentful of the fact that they are working hard and having to pay for those who are not. If people aren't getting government support from taxpayers, I'm sure people would be fine with whatever way others want to live their lives, assuming it's not hurting others. I would have a problem, though, if someone were being marginally employed because of lack of ambition and neglecting his kids or failing to provide for his kids because of that lack of ambition. So as long as it's not hurting others, or costing the taxpayers money, I don't think people care one way or the other if someone is not living with ambition. Of course, a person's spouse or SO might care if their partner was not contributing or was chosing to live in poverty rather than developing more ambition, but I doubt others would care if that's the way the guy wants to live his life.
Author Ross MwcFan Posted April 1, 2012 Author Posted April 1, 2012 An unambitious person is more likely to let the world fall down around them. If you hook your wagon to them, you'll have to either carry the load of maintaining things or you'll face a constant battle trying to get them to step up and get it done. People are admired who rebel against entropy by not only maintaining things but also building things. And they are more trusted and reliable. I agree, it's probably more likely. But it's not a definate, and therefore there still isn't any reason to hate on an unambitious person. I wouldn't say I'm ambitious, but I'm totally trustworthy, and if I were helpng another person or people, as long as I wasn't forced into it, I would put in enough effort.
stillafool Posted April 1, 2012 Posted April 1, 2012 The tone of this post seems kinda off, even though I don't mean it to be, this isn't about me looking down on ambitious people or anything like that. I'm just trying to understand the whole thing more. A lot of people in the US seem to be all about ambition (much more so than us in the UK it seems). I hear a lot about these people complaining about others with no drive or ambition. Why is this, why is it so wrong for someone to be happy and content with their life, even if what they like to do a lot of the time is play on their Xbox? Why look down on them? What harm are they causing to anyone? Surely that's better than always having to chase something in order to feel happy and content in life? Okay, again, I don't mean for this to sound offensive, it is a genuine question, but is it jealousy, does it make you feel pissed off that some people don't need to put in hard work and constantly chase things in order to feel happy and content? Is that why you have contempt for non ambitious people? What if someone works at an okay job, but in their free time they enjoy playing Xbox, and seeing friends. Even though they're working, is that still not having enough drive, is it still not good enough? What should they do as well as working everyday in order to have drive or be ambitious? When you've achieved what you want in life, will you guys be able to feel happy and content, or will you still feel the need to chase something else? When someone has achieved everything they want in life, is it okay for them to not be ambitious anymore, or is that still a no no? Thanks. So are you saying that people in the UK have no ambition?
johan Posted April 1, 2012 Posted April 1, 2012 ...therefore there still isn't any reason to hate on an unambitious person. For Christ's sake, Ross. Who are we allowed to hate? You seem to want to rule everyone out. It's not like an unambitious person is really going to get up and do anything about it. Would you at least start a thread listing the people we can hate? 2
Author Ross MwcFan Posted April 1, 2012 Author Posted April 1, 2012 (edited) For Christ's sake, Ross. Who are we allowed to hate? You seem to want to rule everyone out. It's not like an unambitious person is really going to get up and do anything about it. Would you at least start a thread listing the people we can hate? Huh? How am I ruling everyone out? I just don't think it's right to hate on people who don't deserve it. But if that's your thing... Hating on a mugger, rapist, etc, that's understandable, and I'm not ruling those sorts of people out. Edited April 1, 2012 by Ross MwcFan
Author Ross MwcFan Posted April 1, 2012 Author Posted April 1, 2012 So are you saying that people in the UK have no ambition? Nope, that's what you're saying.
TheBigQuestion Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 You only get one shot at life, and life is exceedingly short. Why squander that time on being mediocre? Why not spend that time at least trying very hard to make your mark in the world? I don't see the point in mere existence. I seek to truly live, and a big part of actually living is achieving some remarkable goals after putting a good amount of effort into them. I don't look down on people who live without ambition, but I don't think I could ever seriously date the perpetual cocktail waitress, or a woman forever stuck being an administrative assistant/secretary, and so forth. It's not in line with my personality. Granted, I'm not talking about becoming an astronaut. Just have yourself a good career and pursue some noteworthy, challenging hobbies. Whether your ambition is saving the children of the world or amassing a great fortune so you can spend 6 months out of the year on a yacht in the Mediterranean, just go for it. Why spend your life doing something completely unconstructive? 3
TheBigQuestion Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 You're right about America having ambition as more of an obsession. More than any other country in western civilization America is a society in which "competition" is raised almost to the level of a fundamentalist religion. Our crazy nation even took the entire world to the brink of nuclear annihilation over what is essentially the argument between being able to make and keep as much money as you are able versus everyone sharing stuff equally. That's an admitted over-simplification but couldn't here have been a better way to go about settling differences in economic philosophy than pouring trillions of dollars into an arms race in which with one wrong turn of events, everyone dies horribly? Although that great argument between communism and capitalism is 20 years over, there's a major element in America who is lost without it and still carries on the same "either/or" argument that we must have a totality of free market capitalism or we will be living under a totality of socialistic artificial distribution of wealth. Meanwhile most of the rest of the world has moved on and mixes a bit of socialism with their capitalism and goes about their business investing in their own futures through taxation and investment in education and development. America is still partly governed by extremists who lie--they carry on as if any hybridizing of capitalism and socialism is a capitulation and slow down the entire progress of this once up and coming nation. Education continues to have no reform and is entirely "competition-centric". "Winner take all" is still the mantra here and many families live this religion very much to the core. They expect a competitive effort from everyone to "get in the game and win it" and don't know how to deal with those who either don't really want to win or play, but think the game needs to be re-thought so that there isn't just a few winners and mostly losers. This is what our "occupy Wall street" ,movement is about--the desire to live in a society that is not "winner take all" that make 99% losers. Those in the 1% don't want to hear anything about reform--they just want to control and own and look the other way when other suffer and die from disease and starvation. I know there are ways to create lots of winners that doesn't mean ending the old game. That is my personal struggle to succeed at and I want to win at it. Europe is much different and intellectualism has a much better foothold there. But is also has a longer history of class disctinction and resignation by many people to their "station" outside of the palaces. Absolute nonsense. The modern American is utterly averse to real competition, progress and ambition. It started when schools and sports organizations started giving out "participation trophies" or pats on the back when kids did poorly in order to (heaven forbid!) hurt their feelings or self-esteem. The Occupy Wall Street movement has just as much to do with a youth that was raised on participation trophies as it does with being a reaction to actual political issues.
johan Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 Huh? How am I ruling everyone out? I just don't think it's right to hate on people who don't deserve it. But if that's your thing... Hating on a mugger, rapist, etc, that's understandable, and I'm not ruling those sorts of people out. I was kidding, Ross. But I do think we're happier when we have someone to hate. So if you do have a list of hatable people, send it over. As long as I'm not on it.
Author Ross MwcFan Posted April 2, 2012 Author Posted April 2, 2012 I was kidding, Ross. But I do think we're happier when we have someone to hate. So if you do have a list of hatable people, send it over. As long as I'm not on it. Sorry man. I totally took your post the wrong way.
Author Ross MwcFan Posted April 2, 2012 Author Posted April 2, 2012 (edited) You only get one shot at life, and life is exceedingly short. Why squander that time on being mediocre? Why not spend that time at least trying very hard to make your mark in the world? I don't see the point in mere existence. I seek to truly live, and a big part of actually living is achieving some remarkable goals after putting a good amount of effort into them. I don't look down on people who live without ambition, but I don't think I could ever seriously date the perpetual cocktail waitress, or a woman forever stuck being an administrative assistant/secretary, and so forth. It's not in line with my personality. Granted, I'm not talking about becoming an astronaut. Just have yourself a good career and pursue some noteworthy, challenging hobbies. Whether your ambition is saving the children of the world or amassing a great fortune so you can spend 6 months out of the year on a yacht in the Mediterranean, just go for it. Why spend your life doing something completely unconstructive? But most people without ambition are happy to live like that I believe. I wouldn't say I was squandering my life being mediocre, since I would be enjoying my life not being ambitious, and having the kind of lifestyle that I like, that makes me happy. If I was to spend my life being ambitious, I would enjoy it a lot less, maybe it would even make me feel a lot more miserable, it wouldn't be for me, and it would mean that I would have a lot less time to live my life in the way that I do enjoy it (playing on the Xbox, whatever). So for me, always being ambitious would be squandering/wasting my life. You only get one life, and I want to live my life in the way which makes me happy. Edited April 2, 2012 by Ross MwcFan
NeverDated Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 A lot of people in the US seem to be all about ambition (much more so than us in the UK it seems). I hear a lot about these people complaining about others with no drive or ambition. Why is this, why is it so wrong for someone to be happy and content with their life, even if what they like to do a lot of the time is play on their Xbox? Why look down on them? What harm are they causing to anyone? Surely that's better than always having to chase something in order to feel happy and content in life? How is always chasing a dream any different from playing xbox or sitting on your front porch knitting? Both are activities that bring people joy. What if someone works at an okay job, but in their free time they enjoy playing Xbox, and seeing friends. Even though they're working, is that still not having enough drive, is it still not good enough? What should they do as well as working everyday in order to have drive or be ambitious? Makes no sense to me, but they're taking care of their own business, so no judgement. I would not be content doing it, but I also wouldn't be content being an open heart surgeon. When you've achieved what you want in life, will you guys be able to feel happy and content, or will you still feel the need to chase something else? I'll never be able to achieve everything I want to in life. I have a list a mile long. But the completion of the list isn't what brings me joy, it's the journey getting there. My ex-husband was once offered a position halfway across the country. I begged him to jump on it and he refused. He was more concerned with the number of zeroes on his check than the experiences getting there, and ended up taking a miserable (albeit higher paying) job nearby. And that's where the truly non-ambitious confuse me. You have only one opportunity at experiencing this truly magnificent world, why are you not grasping every bull by the horns? Ambition, to me, is about fulling experiencing opportunities that come your way. How can you even be aware of potentially amazing possibilities if you're doing the same thing day in and day out, going straight from work to TV?
LuckyLady13 Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 I have a real personal point of view on this and especially the Xbox part. First, let me say I do not and never will hate unambitious people. It's not in my nature. However, seeing one of my closest friends work, then play Xbox or World of Warcraft 7 days a week gives me anxiety attacks. I seriously have to tune it out the best I can, being that I'm an ambitious person. The whole idea of this friend of mine wasting so much precious time on this earth going nowhere, not meeting new people, not experiencing what life has to offer actually scares me! There's so much out there besides video games and like you Ross, my friend says he's happy this way. I can't even see that being possible. We're from two different worlds. To me life is so short. I wouldn't want to miss a thing. 1
Anela Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 After seeing The Hunger Games, last week, I was wondering what ever happened to that wanting to be good at something, and winning - like katniss with her archery and hunting. I used to have a certain amount of ambition, and when I'm feeling happier and more invested in life, that comes back to me. I've been feeling ashamed that I haven't achieved more, not because of what others might think (although it can be difficult to not feel people judging you, when you're in my position), but because of what I wanted to do with my life. I used to be a hard worker - and still am once I'm dug into something - having fun working towards my own goals, and feeling optimistic about tackling the larger ones in the future (and the larger ones would have been more simple in ways, if I'd also taken small steps towards them at the time). At the moment, I have small goals: I'm making an afghan for a friend, and I'll be attempting to grow food in my garden again this Spring/Summer/Autumn - just getting out into the sunshine and fresh air, hands in the mud, makes me feel a thousand times better. I started out last year learning to use my new camera (participating in photographic scavenger hunts), and really wanting to get back into regular exercise - something I miss - but had my back go out on me out of nowhere, and other things happen, so I still haven't achieved that one. I've played video games when depressed or anxious, in the past. I played them for a few days, or just for entertainment with my sister, but the thought of only doing that - and actually, the thought that I've already spent so much of my life in front of a computer, rather than doing other things - depresses me. I have no problem with anyone else who wants to do that - whatever makes you happy. I just know that eleven years ago, I was learning Italian, in the hopes of living in Italy for a while, once I got over my agoraphobia: small steps towards a bigger goal. Now? I've lost that enthusiasm, and I need it back. I know that a lot of things seem pointless, big or small, "so what? we're all going to die anyway?" When I'm happier, they don't feel pointless.
Author Ross MwcFan Posted April 2, 2012 Author Posted April 2, 2012 And that's where the truly non-ambitious confuse me. You have only one opportunity at experiencing this truly magnificent world, why are you not grasping every bull by the horns? Ambition, to me, is about fulling experiencing opportunities that come your way. How can you even be aware of potentially amazing possibilities if you're doing the same thing day in and day out, going straight from work to TV? Because they enjoy their life doing things like watching the TV, they're happy with that. They don't enjoy it by being ambitious.
Author Ross MwcFan Posted April 2, 2012 Author Posted April 2, 2012 (edited) I have a real personal point of view on this and especially the Xbox part. First, let me say I do not and never will hate unambitious people. It's not in my nature. However, seeing one of my closest friends work, then play Xbox or World of Warcraft 7 days a week gives me anxiety attacks. I seriously have to tune it out the best I can, being that I'm an ambitious person. The whole idea of this friend of mine wasting so much precious time on this earth going nowhere, not meeting new people, not experiencing what life has to offer actually scares me! There's so much out there besides video games and like you Ross, my friend says he's happy this way. I can't even see that being possible. We're from two different worlds. To me life is so short. I wouldn't want to miss a thing. He's not wasting time though, he's having fun. If he lead an ambitious lifestyle he probably wouldn't find that as fun, he probably wouldn't feel that happy, so leading an ambitious lifestyle would be wasting his time. Edited April 2, 2012 by Ross MwcFan
Feelin Frisky Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 Absolute nonsense. The modern American is utterly averse to real competition, progress and ambition. It started when schools and sports organizations started giving out "participation trophies" or pats on the back when kids did poorly in order to (heaven forbid!) hurt their feelings or self-esteem. The Occupy Wall Street movement has just as much to do with a youth that was raised on participation trophies as it does with being a reaction to actual political issues. That's really deep. How do you do too.
Dust Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 Ross to me it sounds like you're killing time and also worried about the people who would end your welfare. You are aware of the reaility it is out of your control as you've given up control of your life. As far as I'm concerned if you don't want to do anything with your life other then play video games and be entertained I have no problem with it what so ever. I do how ever think you should be aware of the reality that some one has to work. I'm against welfare in all formst and what we now have is the welfare/warfare state. I want people who would want to make themselves a charity case to make themselves a charity case and not live out their lives off the tax payers dime devaluing the curency and causeing mass ammounts of money to be redistributed under the guise of welfare often times to anything but. I feel sorry for you too if you don't feel pasionate enough about anything in your life to work for it. I don't hate you.
NeverDated Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 Because they enjoy their life doing things like watching the TV, they're happy with that. They don't enjoy it by being ambitious. You asked a question and got an answer. Did you want responses or an excuse to debate? I don't think people are happy with that, FWIW. Every single person I have known who claims to be "content" going straight from work to computer/TV has a hard time interacting with other human being face-to-face. They also fear failure. They take mediocre jobs that don't expect much, live in mediocre apartments that require no maintenance and very rarely have significant others ("IRL"). They mask it all with a nice veneer of being "content" with how their life is so people don't "judge them." Not talking about people who enjoy coming home and unwinding with a few hours of Halo. We're talking people who are so "content" with doing nothing that they refuse to go out into the "real world" for vacations, camping trips, dinners, movies, etc. They go to work because they have to, and absorb themselves in worlds that are not real. 1
Dust Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 Just to be clear I want the world where no one has to work and people can just sit around fishing all day or what ever they want. I think that world is much more achievable through freedom not the welfare state. The welfare state leads to an all powerful capitol such as depicted in the hunger games... where every one is starving and life is cheap. Wealth all being centralized to some far off capitol. So in escence the more sheeple with no ambition the more one crazy guy can control you all.
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