Separation in the family home? I can't stand this.

[Ninja'sHusband]

If a woman wants a divorce, she should just file, not make the situation so bad for the husband who wants to stay that eventually he has to file even though he doesn't want to. That's just cruel beyond belief, especially if you throw an affair into the mix. Is there some code that says it's a man's job to file for divorce? If a man wants to honor his vows, let him. If you want to break yours, then you take responsibility for it by divorcing...or...working on the marriage/communicating clearly?

[onthefence210]

I agree with you totally about projection, it seems clear to me that's most of the story here, and has been since the start of this chaos.

 

I've told her repeatedly that if she wants to leave, she can leave. Now she is, eventually, physically leaving, by her own choice. She still portrays this as me 'kicking her out'. Victim mentality, as you so rightly say. All I've done is refuse to leave the family home, and tell her that I don't want to live together any more if she ends the marriage. But when it comes to 'not forcing her to stay in the marriage', I draw a distinction between this and actively divorcing her. I don't want to divorce her, and so I don't feel I should file. If she really wants to divorce me, she can file and see what happens. I think she'd be surprised. I also don't think she'll do it anytime soon.

 

Well, I hope so. I completely agree with you on this, and I hope she finds the strength to forge a new version of herself without this victimhood that has hamstrung her for so long. If she needs to move out in order to find that strength, then so be it. Sadly, as you say it may take another failed relationship, or more, before she finds a way. There doesn't seem to be much more I can do. It cuts me up badly that she may work it out years from now, when we're history.

 

I'm sure plenty here echo that sentiment. I do too. But then I wonder if it would have meant much to me before I went through all this pain myself.

 

I think you are doing the right thing by asking her to leave. I have chosen to leave because it is me who wants out. Not out of the marriage but out of the constant chaos that is our life. As far as you filing, I only suggest that because there needs to be consequences for her actions. I could see if she was looking to better herself, going to IC and doing everything she could to grow up. I do understand your feelings of abandoning her especially when she may be depressed, but we can't help those who won't help themselves.

 

File for legal separation if you can, protect yourself and your son. Protect her by being fair. Make a big statement to say, I wish you peace and happiness in your life. Put yourself first by finding your own happiness, passions that you've neglected etc. take a good look at your relationship with her and figure out what you could have done differently, make those changes and apply them to your daily life.

 

I am trying to figure out this whole codependent thing. How does one make the changes in their life to better themselves yet make it work with the one who continues to see themselves as the victim? I've allowed myself to live in this situation, even felt helpless, powerless to express my needs, my dreams and my feelings all because I was too afraid of being shot down, then it became, I'll just take care of it myself, I don't need you. I focused on me, my kids and tried to focus on the good in my H, but over the years the good was no longer good enough. My H could have dumped me when I confessed my sins, deep down I wished he would have because even with being completely honest to him, I still couldn't tell him what I was feeling. Now I owe him for being a cheat. And yet in my heart, I only owe it to myself and to my kids to be happy and make good choices based on what i know is right. And that is my goal in life. I pray that one day he will see that I loved him with everything I had until I had no more. But still believe I could love him again if he ever decides to be the man he was made to be. I have faith and I'll let go and continue to be who I am meant to be in this short life!!! Take care of yourself

[Ninja'sHusband]

If a woman wants a divorce, she should just file, not make the situation so bad for the husband who wants to stay that eventually he has to file even though he doesn't want to. That's just cruel beyond belief, especially if you throw an affair into the mix. Is there some code that says it's a man's job to file for divorce? If a man wants to honor his vows, let him. If you want to break yours, then you take responsibility for it by divorcing...or maybe instead work on the marriage and communicate clearly?

[K Os]

Thanks otf, for all your kind and thoughtful words. You sound like a really good person who's been to some dark places. I wish you peace and all other good stuff

 

I think you are doing the right thing by asking her to leave. I have chosen to leave because it is me who wants out. Not out of the marriage but out of the constant chaos that is our life. As far as you filing, I only suggest that because there needs to be consequences for her actions.

My view of it is that the consequences of her actions will reveal themselves to her by life itself, they don't need to come from me like Judge Dredd. For example, consequences are now going to be: her living in a new, unfamiliar place, away from what has been the family home for the past 11 years; not being able to 'drop in' whenever she feels like it; spending a lot of time without our son (50/50) - she hasn't had to deal with this yet, though I've seen too little of him over the past 2 months and I know how much this hurts; the financial strain of keeping a separate house; nights watching TV all alone, even without the dog, etc. etc. In short, the reality of being a single working mum with shared care of a child.

 

I could see if she was looking to better herself, going to IC and doing everything she could to grow up. I do understand your feelings of abandoning her especially when she may be depressed, but we can't help those who won't help themselves.

No we can't, and I reached the point where I needed to stop trying to help her, and just let her go where she's headed. But this is different from abandoning her and cutting her off by filing for divorce. I still have glimmers of hope that by herself she will reach a place where she understands that she needs help. It may be a bad place, and I'm ready for that. If that happens, the fact that I've filed for divorce will be a very unhelpful thing. That is the time when I will need to be her friend again.

 

A lawyer friend of mine told me he only realised he needed help with depression when he broke down in tears in court and had no idea why. I have seen depression in my own family too, and I can't be brutal to it. I'm being firm with her, but not hard, and I hope that leads somewhere better than here.

 

"If you love someone, set them free. If they don't come back, hunt them down and kill them."

[K Os]

If a woman wants a divorce, she should just file, not make the situation so bad for the husband who wants to stay that eventually he has to file even though he doesn't want to. That's just cruel beyond belief, especially if you throw an affair into the mix. Is there some code that says it's a man's job to file for divorce? If a man wants to honor his vows, let him. If you want to break yours, then you take responsibility for it by divorcing...or maybe instead work on the marriage and communicate clearly?

 

Amen to all that. Thanks NH, you just reminded me I'm sane.

[K Os]

She's moving out next weekend. Three doors down the street. Weird, but OK, so be it. It's her choice and she's made it. I'm going to focus on the things I should be focusing on - our son, my work, keeping healthy.

 

But here's what's bugging me now: we haven't made any agreement about seeing other people while separated. We haven't even discussed it. From what she's said, I think she thinks separation is the end of our relationship, bar the formalities. She's said at one time that she'll wait to divorce for two years, so that she can file on the grounds of separation then, if I agree. She doesn't want to file for any 'fault' reasons, she said. She's also asked me if I don't want to divorce her right now. At another time she's said she "needs a long break", and needs some "peace and quiet" and space etc.

 

So I can't be completely sure if she just needs a long break, or if this separation is really equal to divorce in her mind. We're not talking at all at the moment, and apart from three mediation sessions we've only met once (by accident) in several weeks. It would seem very odd right now to ask her such questions about seeing other people. Is there any point in trying to clarify this? My tendency, knowing her as I do, is not to ask, because asking her will probably provoke the harsh answer, "Of course we can see other people if we want to. I've left you, haven't you got it yet?" When that may not be the whole truth. In other words, I don't want to force the issue if she is really looking to find some space to think about all these things. Which is my read on her.

 

I suppose if she's three doors down and starts seeing other people then sooner or later I'll know about it. If this happens I'll just file for D straight away and put the whole sorry mess behind me. But if, as is more likely, she doesn't start up with anybody else, not knowing her intentions leaves me still in limbo, possibly for up to two years until she files for divorce, if she does.

 

It's so difficult to communicate with someone who doesn't know what she wants, particularly when the communication itself will change the outcome.

[carhill]

IMO, expect her to move on nearly immediately, if she hasn't already got someone else in mind. From the quick scan of the thread, the signs are there. It's not uncommon and actually quite common in my experience. Once a married couple separates formally, like with separate domiciles, absent focused work on the M along with an agreement regarding fidelity, expect a free-for-all.

 

If the current path doesn't affect you adversely financially, compared to filing for divorce on fault grounds, just let it go and move on. What comes will come. If a fault divorce is an advantage to you and your son, don't squander it. Those are the numbers I'd crunch: what's best for myself and our child.

 

Good luck.

[Albertan]

Buddy....

 

Been through something so similar.

Couple of things. It doesn't matter what "agreement" you come to on seeing other people. If OM comes into her life, don't doubt for a second she would not jump at the chance. You can agree all you want, all you can do is make decisions for yourself.

What does it matter when you file or for what reason? I'm in a country where all divorce is consider "no fault" so I guess its hard for me to understand the ramifications. Although, what's the rush? What you've been through recently enough, give both of you the time to get some distance. If you start divorce proceedings still angry, hurt, resentful, bitter towards each other - this is when things go down hill and become very costly.

 

As someone going through the same thing, all I can tell you is what I have done. Honestly there are days I'm glad she has gone and others that I miss her like crazy. Same as you, if I'm honest, I keep hoping one day she'll wake up to what's she done but you know what......I'm not going to drive myself crazy thinking about that.

My ex left two weeks and slowly but surely I do find things getting slightly easier (and we have two very young kids). I make list in my mind of the things I don't miss about having her in the house. I'm joining clubs, reconnecting with friends. When I have the kids, I do everything I can with them, enjoy my time with them and not think about her.

I've got a long way to go (as do you) but I do know there is a light at the end of the tunnel, that it does get easier and that one day you will feel human again.

[K Os]

Yeah, you're both right, I know. Agreement on such things is neither here nor there when it comes down to reality and basic human drives.

 

What's bugging me most is the fact that she's moved three doors away. I can see her new front door from my living room. I just know if she does start up with someone else then it's going to be right in my face. I could do without the extra pain. I don't actually think she'll rush into anything. Maybe I'll just stay in the house a month and then move further away myself. Difficult to get some 'distance' if I can throw a ball (or a dog turd for that matter) into her back garden from mine...

[K Os]

This is impossible. She's moved out, just a few yards away, and now I need more distance. At the moment I want no contact with her at all, while keeping maximum contact with my son. I just went out for a coffee with a friend twenty miles away, discussed the whole situation, then came home. Right then she was the last person I wanted to see. Sure enough, she happened to be in the car park, said hi to me as if everything was just fine, started trying to make conversation. It's like a really bad dream. I've spent months refusing to be pushed out of my home, now she's moved out but she's too damn close, and either she's absolutely fine with everything or she's pretending she is. I just feel I've got to get out of here as soon as possible and go right away so I can be myself, without her right there on my shoulder. I can't figure out what she's doing, or why she thinks this solution is workable. For me, it plainly isn't. Which means I have to move. Which is exactly what I wanted to avoid. Getting really wound up by this.

Edited July 19, 2012 by K Os

[carhill]

If you want space, make it.

 

Limit conversation to issues regarding your child. This is really easy to do, but might seem 'rude' if you're used to accommodating people. I learned the style of conversation from many trips to NYC and interacting with the 'direct' people there.

 

'I don't wish to talk about that' as an example. Then turn and go. It's not rude. It's direct. You can maintain your boundaries and the necessary LC for your child. You don't have to move. It's up to you. You have choices.

[K Os]

Yes. I just said hi, answered 'no' to her question, and went straight into the house. She will have got the message. But you're right, it seems rude and churlish. The worst thing is that my behaviour shows I'm not ok with the situation, whereas she seems to be. This feels bad. But I can't pretend to be ok with her leaving, so I shouldn't try. I just never imagined this scenario, with her living so close. I spent months anticipating her being really gone from view. It grates that she's still right there. I get the sense she's enjoying it.

[Chi townD]

If you can see her then she can see you. Screw it, throw a BIG ASS party!!

[K Os]

So, a week after she's moved out. My son's going to be with me for a week, plus dog. While I'm out she brings the dog round to my house, and also a suitcase of clothes and things for our son. She empties the suitcase, leaves it in my (previously our) bedroom, and for some reason tidies my shoes to the shoerack in the hall. I come home and can't find my shoes. Then I go ballistic when I find them. This seems to be a case of completely absent boundaries. The house is now mine. Hers is hers. She seems to feel there is (i) the family home, to which she has access as necessary and (ii) her place, to which I have none at all. She obviously got access to my place using our son's key. How to explain such simple boundaries to someone who obviously doesn't consider this behaviour a problem, without coming across as an irate freak?

[K Os]

P.S. at the moment I am an irate freak.

[K Os]

My new mantra:

 

"I am not what this rejection says I am."

 

Repeated frequently. It helps put things in the right perspective. Just thought I'd share...

[todreaminblue]

It's a long story. Shortish version: last June my wife of 14 years (together 16) gave me the 'my feelings have changed' speech. After 2 days she relented, but since then it's been a long, slow, painful slide towards what she wants - separation and the end of our relationship. I persuaded her to go to counselling, she came to a few sessions, but no help really. We have a son aged 14, she wants us both to continue to be the great parents we have always been to him, but separately.

At first she demanded I move out. I have steadfastly refused on principle, as she is the one leaving me and not vice versa, and I have kept repeating that it's the family home, where I have lived for 11 years, and I'm not going anywhere, thank you. I'm in a financial situation where it would be well nigh impossible anyway. She has spent a long time refusing to move out too, and likewise isn't in great financial shape alone, though it would be easier for her to do so, imho. Last week, following some lovely, lovely legal advice given to her by a lovely, lovely family lawyer, she announced that she would no longer be cooking to include me, or doing any washing for me, as she wants to ensure legal separation starts asap even though we live in the same house. This will make divorce by separation arrive sooner. I explained this situation to my son and he said no, mum would never be so mean. That evening she refused to include me in a meal. I was upset, and my son comforted me. I avoided her for a couple of days, only returning home to sleep. The following morning she came to me and said she can't behave like this, it's too awful, she can't follow the legal advice, she will behave like a decent person until she moves out, she will include me in meals, laundry etc., because it doesn't teach our son anything good. I'm left in a weird situation, trying to live in the family home with a woman who would like to cut off all human support to me, but who has relented on doing so because it so upsets our son. How charming. Probably needless to say, I haven't eaten a shared meal or left any washing in the basket since she first made the announcement. I just sleep there 4 nights out of 7, and avoid her at all costs. Her moving out could take months, even years. She has put herself on a council housing list, and refuses to rent privately because she is daunted by the quality of housing, security of tenancy, and all sorts of other fears that you might think she would have considered before she dropped the bomb...

Any thoughts on how to handle this dreadful situation? I won't move out, she may take ages to move out, I'm not inclined to share in her games of neglecting, rejecting and patronising me, and I just avoid her as much as possible. I hope she moves out soon, if she is persisting with her overall aim. Meanwhile, I'm seeing my son for about 2 hours a week - far less than if she moved out and we had a reasonable shared parenting arrangement.

Emotional backdrop - I love her very much, I never wanted or anticipated any of this. I'm not vile or abusive or alcoholic or violent or a gambler or anything. I'm a nice guy (whoops, big failing right there), we've had a very tough couple of years and she just wants out.

She has told our son (because he told me so) that if she moves out to a new place with him, then 'if things pick up, maybe Dad will be able to move in with us again'. Is this a genuine tiny hope on her part? Or just to calm his nerves?

Any thoughts welcome. Female perspectives too. Thanks.

 

 

Its to calm your sons nerves i am sorry to tell you that it must be horrible for you, the sooner this happens the better it will be for you and for every one concerned.Dont understand the non feeding thing.....i feed whoever is in my house at dinner time not lately im on strike mode......too much disrespect lately.....so strike time for me but normally i would not single people out to not feed i always cook extra.....

 

I have always felt sorry for an ex of mine who lives with me now even though he is extremely moody has issues he has no family i have a son to him too funnily enough...i actually have two to him......one lives here with him, i have decided that i am probably moving out dont know when could be in a year or two or next week...no i am kidding....it wont be next week.....i am leaving the house to him and i am leaving my son with him i have decided that is something that will make me feel ok with they are family colin is more appropriate to look after my son as my son does not listen to me ....and quite abusive to all... i will still budget out the rent and handle my sons money as the father cant be trusted to do that and pay bills...so i will...your wife is moving out of your family home that a pretty drastic a move.....can you think of anything that set this off??..this separation is probably a necessity if your wife started the no feeding no washing thing.it is mean if you are a nice guy..i feel for you.....deb

[K Os]

Separated 2 months now and the dust has settled a fair bit, but still no closer to any resolution.

 

How to move on with my life, when I still have no intention of filing for divorce?

 

She hasn't filed. I'm still in the dark about her true long-term intentions. She probably is too.

 

If I felt free to start other relationships now, I probably would. It's been a very long time, and life still exists somewhere.

 

I suppose my question is this: how to rejoin the human race and walk the Earth again as a normal-shaped human being, without defiling my own principles about marriage? If she files, I'll take that as a final statement that she never truly married me in the first place, and move on to find the real thing.

 

Which way freedom?

 

All comments welcome as always.

[K Os]

Here's a thought:

 

If I have a spouse who won't communicate at all on an emotional level any more, isn't doing the 180 exactly the same as giving up?

 

I've seen all these books and psychological strategies out there for getting your WS back, but the 180 makes sense to me, and it flies in the face of any direct attempts to persuade her to return. Unfortunately the 180 doesn't seem to go anywhere except towards solitude, and then other relationships when you feel up to it. In other words, 'there's nothing you can do, so stop thinking there is'. A bit nihilistic?

 

I know the 180 isn't supposed to be a strategy for getting them back, but rather for looking after yourself and getting on with your life, making sure you're ok. Is it possible to do this without giving up on the other person?

 

Just kicking against the isolation...

Edited October 4, 2012 by K Os

[standtall]

KO, why is it exactly that you to have that kind of relationship with here anymore? Ask yourself that.Also, keep in mind that joint children together is only a temporary thing, and that they will grow up and leave the house eventually...

[Owl]

Why not start the discussion on the "now what" issue?

 

Simply tell her that you need to know what her intentions are...and if she's not thought about it, it's time to do so.

 

Same for yourself, for that matter. What do you want to come out of all of this? What's your plan for reaching that goal?

[MsOptimist]

I just read through your thread and am sorry you are in this position. I'm in a similar position to you, my husband is the one who up and says he doesn't have feelings for me and I never wanted this to happen.

 

I completely understand why you don't want to be in such close proximity to her. Even though I don't want the divorce, I am choosing to move out (for several reasons, one being that it's too emotionally hard for me to stay in "our" house alone, knowing that he would still come to town for various things). He suggested that I rent a house in our town, I said no way - for the reasons you hate being so close to your wife. It would be too painful for me.

 

I'm not as far into my situation, but on the rare times we do communicate, it sounds similar to you and your wife. I get upset when I see him. He is acting "friendly" like everything is just fine, so I shut off and go cold because I can't act like everything is fine. I think I'm just protecting myself and my feelings because if we do get into a conversation lately I end up hurt and crying. I don't want to appear weak in front of him so I say one word responses or nothing at all.

 

I wonder about the 180 thing as well - I'm not trying to get him back at this point, but I also can't seem to act happy and upbeat around him. I am happy and coping well when I'm not around him, but he doesn't see that. I don't know if he thinks I am cold and in solitude in all other areas of my life right now. I want him to know that I'm moving on and have no doubts that I'll eventually move past this, but right now my anger and resentment towards him shows in the brief times we interact right now.

 

I'm moving out in the next few days so we may have no contact soon, except regarding our dog, so I may not have to be concerned with interacting with him soon enough.

[K Os]

KO, why is it exactly that you to have that kind of relationship with here anymore? Ask yourself that.Also, keep in mind that joint children together is only a temporary thing, and that they will grow up and leave the house eventually...

 

What kind of relationship do you mean? It is what it is. It doesn't end, it just changes. If you're asking me why I haven't given up and 'moved on', then that's not what I was getting at. I still see that this could turn around. I know her very well. A long shot? Very definitely. Impossible? No. Deluded? Maybe. I still find myself thinking what I can do and how I can behave to make it easier for her to see what a mess she's made. The answer lies closely alongside the 180 - do nothing, give her as much freedom as possible and allow her to mess things up. Already, since moving out, she's been told her job is being axed in April. And she's physically unwell. So she's not a happy bunny and she's scared. I'm ignoring her problems. We only communicate by email, about our son and finances. What I'm thinking is - ok, distance and detachment is the only way I can cope with her at the moment, granted, but is it really the best way to go if I ultimately want to reconcile? It's hard. And it's really her call, not mine.

 

Everyone I speak to (including my therapist) agrees that moving so close is not the act of someone who really wanted to leave. It's just odd.

 

Our son is no problem, really. He spends a week with me and a week with her, and we're ironing out the bumps. I know this situation won't last forever, and as you say, eventually he'll live somewhere else.

[K Os]

Why not start the discussion on the "now what" issue?

 

Simply tell her that you need to know what her intentions are...and if she's not thought about it, it's time to do so.

 

Same for yourself, for that matter. What do you want to come out of all of this? What's your plan for reaching that goal?

 

Yes, all good questions. Thanks, Owl.

 

A major part of this saga is that her intentions are not clear and never have been. Even to her. Confusion in her wishes and emotions has been commented on by a therapist and a mediator, as well as numerous innocent bystanders. It's difficult to get at the truth. Push her on it and she switches to all-out negativity and hostility. I've forced enough of these conversations on her, and the answer is always destructive. If her move is really to do with finding the space to reduce that confusion, then I should continue to leave her completely alone. This is my instinct. But that doesn't mean I want us to split forever, and I'm concerned that my behaviour looks like cold indifference to her, which will hardly melt her stony heart.

 

What do I want to come out of all this? (a) my son to be ok about everything, and happy; (b) her to be well; © me to feel like I did before this ever happened, and if that's not with her then to be able to feel like that with someone else (how hard is that going to be, omg?); and (d) the TRUTH of what happened.

 

My plan for reaching those goals? Well, most of them are deep emotional things - I don't think any concrete plan is going to get me to any of them, honestly. That's why I'm focusing mainly on (a). I'll have to let time, sleep, therapy and my mind work on the rest.

[K Os]

Thanks, MsOptimist. It sounds as though your situation is very much like mine.

 

Hurts like hell, doesn't it?

 

Keep your chin up