We need more common sense...

[findingnemo]

Many of us are here for support and to give support. But I sometimes find it hard to give support to people because I think I'm a bit conservative. You all know my background so I'm no saint. But what's with the attitudes people have these days about M?

 

Getting M, being in a committed R, being in love used to mean something... When did we all become so liberal that we expect to get good results from bad actions? It used to be that if you wanted to eff around, you stayed single. If you were getting M, you had to be pretty sure you wanted to be with that person for the rest of your life? You only said the words "I love you" when you meant it because with them comes a commitment to certain restrictive behaviour! What is going on?

 

I'm beginning to think that the real problem here...the cause of infidelity, marriage breakdown, etc is not that people are BAD. It's that there has been a serious erosion in the moral code to the point that what was long thought to be the common sense way to deal with relationships is now rare. I feel like people should now start testing their future S/O's to see that their values and beliefs are in line.

 

Is there a larger issue at play here as I suspect? Anyone see this attitude problem? Where is basic common sense?

[darkmoon]

imho, affairs are so often on TV as part of a storyline that the public more and more have grow used to the idea, better wait til ppl are single than hope s/he leaves home which only happens when the marriage breaks down anyway, there are exceptions but, and i'd love to be wrong, serial cheaters can lead the bit-on-the-side on as if it's the first time they fooled around

 

for those who fall in love with a married person, tell them to come back when they're single - if the married person is sooo unhappy, then it should only be a matter of time til they divorce anyway

 

i wait to now be hated by anybody who hopes that their cheater will, any day soon, turn up with a suitcase, wipe away the past and forget the person they liked enough to marry, but i once read a column by a relationship counsellor who pointed out that the cheater might decide not to leave home at the last minute because "his/her partner isn't that bad" as he pointedly put it - ouch

Edited March 31, 2012 by darkmoon

[findingnemo]

The As, the idea that one doesn't have to be 100% honest, the idea that people can go online in search of an AP...a practical stranger...

 

So much seems to be up in the air these days. Someone suggested on another thread that in a few decades it could be acceptable for married people to have lovers. Why change things? Don't marry - just date.

 

I doubt that anyone will attack you for your views since you have a right to then. They may object but they won't attack.

[bentnotbroken]

It makes me fear for the relationships of my children and godchildren.

[OpenBook]

Extramarital cheating has been going on since the dawn of man. The only thing that keeps changing is the way that human organized society has dealt with it.

 

I have no reason to believe it happens more (or less) frequently today than it did 50 years ago (or centuries ago).

[frozensprouts]

personally, i think society has become much more geared towards instant gratification and the pursuit of self gratification at the expense of others.

 

we are not really taught about the value of patience or talking things through...everything is seen as a "throw it away rather than fix it" if it doesn't work...

 

we are also becoming much more prone to moral relativism, and the idea that it's okay to go through life steamrolling everything in our path, as long as we get what we want

 

there's an awful lot of good in society, but also a lot of bad...it seems we are seeing our selves more and more in terms of being isolated individuals, with no real responsibility to consider anyone else's thoughts or feelings

[TaraMaiden]

^^^ this.^^^

[beenburned]

FS,

I agree!!:bunny:

[findingnemo]

Moral relativism...that's one of the major problems today, FS. It's okay for the rules to apply except when an individual wants something. Then the rules become flexible.

 

Bent, I worry too about my kids. As we become more and more open, I wonder what our kids will do when it comes to Rs. I worry that everything I will be advising them will seem outdated because "things have changed".

 

Open book, As have always been a part of our society. But there was a time when it was unacceptable. As are evolving into a norm of sorts. A MP is almost fair game. While my society is still conservative, it is changing rapidly.

 

The worst thing to me is that people get M without really considering what it means. They leave their Ms without trying to work things out. They cheat and then expect their spouses to understand and forgive them without putting in the effort to change. They use their kids as a bargaining chip to get more money. It is no longer the case that a mother automatically puts her children first. And the list goes on and on...

 

How are our kids going to know right from wrong if we as parents are flexible with morals?

[Betrayed&Stayed]

"Its a fool that looks for reason in the chambers of the human heart" - Ullysses Everett McGill

[TaraMaiden]

"Common sense is anything but 'common.' "

[findingnemo]

And it's becoming rather rare...common sense that is.

[Lostinlife4now]

I definitely agree with instant gratification in our society...Especially my daughters generation....Iphones, Ipod, Ipad....my generation (cough,cough) not as bad as today....

 

Marriage is considered disposable, just as people, i.e. wives, husbands, boyfriends, girlfriends, toilet paper...Everyone is looking for the next thing, better thing, searching and searching...for the new better and more. More, More More.....Better......

 

But what I have learned in life....LESS IS MORE.....when you have less, less hassle....peace, tranquility. As even in a R I didn't want or could not be in...I didn't stay for everyone else...I left because of ME.

 

I am divorced and single and Happy. And have no qualms telling others that I don't date. Just don't want to deal....Is that bad? or what? I don't think so. But some of my girlfriends do. But alot of them are M and have NO relationship with their H, which I do find rather sad. They stay because of money and think "They are too old"....WHAT?????

[seren]

As I have shared previously, my parents were Quaker/Unitarian, I was brought up to believe that we each have responsibilty for our own actions, we own what we do with each act having cause and effect. The main theme running through all my upbringing was to do nothing that would knowingly harm or hurt another. It is something I have always tried to do, my son was brought up with the same mantra my father told me. In the morning you look in the mirror and tell yourself that today, you will be the best person you can be and try to do good, at the end of the day you look in that same mirror and ask yourself if you have done so, if not, why not and how you can do things differently tomorrow. No excuses to yourself and no doing something that benefits you if it is gained at the expense of others.

 

Of course there have been times when the night time mirror told me I should and could have done something differently and tried to do better the next day. I think that we are quickly forgetting those values of honesty and integrity and using justification for our own happiness to over ride any misgiving we might once have used to put the brakes on our actions. It has become a very me, me, me society, where self gratification and the need for all to be as the films or television tell us it should be outweigh any thoughts as to how our actions impact upon others.

 

I have often wondered if the person doing the hurting could visually see what their actions will cause, if they could see pain and broken heartedness, would they still be happy just doing what they wanted. If many of those who enable someone married to have an A met the BS, spoke with them, saw they are just people who love, struggle, support and wonder WTF is going on with their WS, would they still be OK with the A, or would they tell the WS to leave first and then come find them.

 

I have made quite a few friends on LS, many OW and I wonder that if I was the BS in their A, would they still want to enable my hurt? I hope not. Commonsense and compassion and in some respects, self responsibility has, I think, been buried under the avalance of I want. Doesn't work for me.

[Kidd]

I've been wandering thru life for thr last year wondering what the hell is the matter with people. I dated my wife for 5 years before I asked her to marry me. I saw no reason to hurry up. I wanted to be married because we both knew we wanted to spend the rest of our lives together; I didn't want to spend the rest of our lives together because we had gotten married. I knew she had some kind of internal deadline for me to ask and so I did. As it turns out, she should have thought about it longer. She had a similar demand for children; I was somewhat on the fence. Now they'll be raised in two separate households. And the level of depravity during her affair astounds me. First encounter with the OM was on my couch with the children in the other room. And she blogged about it. $2k+ of our money on hotels. A threesome. She demanded that the kids be raised catholic; now I find myself taking them to church on Sundays. And I'm the black sheep atheist in the family.

 

Now that I've been here, it amazes me the amount of infidelity in the world. And yes, the need for instant gratification. Everything must be bigger and more of it. Nothing is enough. I was a good husband and father. I never fought my wife on anything she wanted. I was thrown out with the trash. Nice. 19 years together. What the hell is the matter with the world? I wanted just one person to live this short life with me. I would have been faithful to her for life. Now much of my life has been a waste. The only positive is that I'll never trust anyone again and so I'll never be disappointed. I wish she was dead and when she gets to hell, I hope there's a special place for her there.

Edited March 31, 2012 by Kidd

[Tayla]

As Monty Python would say...And now for something completely different.

 

Evolution in a "MARRIAGE CONCEPT", requires change. The Stablizing factor is that they do it together and thru support with their goals. I have been around marital folks who carry open marriages..I have been around a few that take my breath away with their renaissance marital ways ( doting, cherishing, amicable). I have been around ones that carry marriage for the sake of religion, To each there is a ground work in progress...What they choose to do to that foundation determines the outcome. I find it insulting and rather monochrome thinking to say that marriage in an of itself is corroding....It may be "different" as times change overall though...some foundations are harder to inspect if all folks are doing is looking at the exterior. Think about it.

[xxoo]

Are affairs more common in recent years?

 

They may be more common among married women, but they've long been relatively common among married men. No? (I'd love to be shown that I'm wrong!)

 

I agree that there is a shocking lack of common sense in engaging in an affair--especially if the cheater hopes to enjoy it with no serious consequences. Just a stunning lack of common sense, when the stakes are so high.

[donnamaybe]

As Monty Python would say...And now for something completely different.

 

Evolution in a "MARRIAGE CONCEPT", requires change. The Stablizing factor is that they do it together and thru support with their goals. I have been around marital folks who carry open marriages..I have been around a few that take my breath away with their renaissance marital ways ( doting, cherishing, amicable). I have been around ones that carry marriage for the sake of religion, To each there is a ground work in progress...What they choose to do to that foundation determines the outcome. I find it insulting and rather monochrome thinking to say that marriage in an of itself is corroding....It may be "different" as times change overall though...some foundations are harder to inspect if all folks are doing is looking at the exterior. Think about it.

 

I think the OP meant people are eroding, not M. I think most feel the choice to define M belongs to each couple. The OP is probably talking about those couples wherin one party feels it is their right to pretend to adhere to the definition of the M that couple agreed to while sneaking around and living another definition of a M their partner never signed up for.

[Kidd]

Could you provide a link to where she blogged about it? Or cut and paste?

 

I find that difficult to believe, sorry. No offense intended.

 

Why? So they could turn out just like her?

 

 

 

This is why I myself couldn't be an atheist like you. I feel there has to be at least a chance of a Hell for evil people to go to as I wish to believe in a possibility in justice in a possible afterlife if not here on Earth.

 

I won't point you to her specific post but feel free to check out hotwifeblogdotcom for yourself for some great stories written by women and their extramarital affairs. I had seen on her history that she had been there. Didn't know until later that she had posted a story; the webmaster sent an email back to an email account she probably thought I didn't know about with a password she really didn't expect I knew. Hypervigilance from PTSD got me only one thing - the truth.

[Steen719]

She demanded that the kids be raised catholic; now I find myself taking them to church on Sundays. And I'm the black sheep atheist in the family.

In my divorce support group, there is a woman who was married for 35 years in what she considered a good marriage, very happy. Her XH found facebook, reconnected with a girlfriend he dated for 3 months when they were 19 years old, dumped his wife and married this OW. Here's the unbelievable part to me (as what he did no longer surprises me). He is a member of the catholic church and he is asking for an annulment of the marriage. The paperwork is all about their wedding and honeymoon as if to determine that the marriage was never good. Can you believe that crap?

 

Now that I've been here, it amazes me the amount of infidelity in the world.

Since my experience with this, I have met (and not in the support group) so many people whose spouses have cheated on them, I have lost count. I am not young, I am not naive, but I couldn't help but feel discouraged by the number.

 

The only positive is that I'll never trust anyone again and so I'll never be disappointed.

While I certainly understand this and feel somewhat this way, I hope I get over that feeling.

 

I think infidelity has always been a part of life and always will be. I also think that most of the time, in the past, women stayed with husbands who cheated on them due to financial reasons and I guess because of the societal disapproval of divorce. I think that is no longer true and I also think that more women cheat on their husbands and also leave their families behind. I don't get that at all. As a woman and a mother, I cannot imagine anything that would make me leave my kids behind. I believe that we, as a culture, have become desensitized to the things we once believed were wrong and this includes violence on TV, games, etc. and fidelity. We are a "throw-away" society and what we value has changed, at least it has since I was a kid. Anyway, I guess we, as individuals, need to make up our own minds about how we want to live our lives. I may have changed some things about my participation in my marriage, but I would have still been faithful as I was and I would in any future relationships. I don't wish this kind of pain on anyone, well except for maybe the XH!!

[chtwf2012]

Women now cheat on their husbands because they reap the financial rewards. Society's laws are so favorable for women to cheat and do whatever they want because they make out like bandits no matter how terrible a person, wife, mother they are..the husband pays for their infidelity and there is nothing they can do...at least in my state. If a spouse cheats they should get nothing...only the child should get any and all contributions. Unfortunately my wife throws this in my face that she will get thousands a month (not including child support) once we get a divorve and frankly she is enjoying it. I too waited 5 years to marry becuase I wanted to not because I had too. Worked my ass off to get a good job to support my wife and daughter all for naught since she will basically cripple me financially for the next decade with alimony. I have been a great husband/father but appearently that isn't enough anymore. Note to those out there that are in emotional affairs, physical affairs, or thinking about them. Talk to your spouse, work out your differences. Cheating is the most debilitating, painful, self doubting experience anyone can ever go through. I would never wish this on my worst enemies...stop the madness !

[findingnemo]

As Monty Python would say...And now for something completely different.

 

Evolution in a "MARRIAGE CONCEPT", requires change. The Stablizing factor is that they do it together and thru support with their goals. I have been around marital folks who carry open marriages..I have been around a few that take my breath away with their renaissance marital ways ( doting, cherishing, amicable). I have been around ones that carry marriage for the sake of religion, To each there is a ground work in progress...What they choose to do to that foundation determines the outcome. I find it insulting and rather monochrome thinking to say that marriage in an of itself is corroding....It may be "different" as times change overall though...some foundations are harder to inspect if all folks are doing is looking at the exterior. Think about it.

 

I don't think M itself is corroding... I think people are corroding the meaning of M. Does that make sense?

 

You can never judge a book by it's cover...as they say. Okay. What if the book is open and telling you a story...then you can judge it, right? My frustration stems from the number of people I see here on LS and IRL who seem to want M but don't want to accept its fundamental principles. Ms are built on trust and commitment. So if it's an open M, then there's trust and commitment. If it's based on religion or culture like an arranged M, it still requires trust and major commitment. What I'm talking about is the idea people seem to have that they should be M and yet be able to eff around in secret. In other words, they want a M where their partner is trustworthy and committed but they aren't.

[frozensprouts]

perhaps it all comes down to rights vs. responsibilities...

 

too many seem to want the "rights" that they perceive exist in a marriage (fidelity, support, love,kindness, lots of sex,clean socks and underwear:laugh:), but they don't want to live up to the responsibilities ( the items listed above plus that you don't go friggin' around on your spouse )...

 

not that hard, but too often we, as a society, excuse hurtful behavior with things like "the heart wants what it wants", or " i deserve (fill in the blank)" or "me first"...

 

maybe we need to teach our kids better that some things require effort, that you stick with things, that things that are worth having are worth fighting for and empathy for others...

[frozensprouts]

I won't point you to her specific post but feel free to check out hotwifeblogdotcom for yourself for some great stories written by women and their extramarital affairs. I had seen on her history that she had been there. Didn't know until later that she had posted a story; the webmaster sent an email back to an email account she probably thought I didn't know about with a password she really didn't expect I knew. Hypervigilance from PTSD got me only one thing - the truth.

 

i read it, and all i can say is that kidd's wife seems to have some pretty deep seated issues ( and i feel so bad for his kids)

[Steen719]

I don't think M itself is corroding... I think people are corroding the meaning of M. Does that make sense?

 

You can never judge a book by it's cover...as they say. Okay. What if the book is open and telling you a story...then you can judge it, right? My frustration stems from the number of people I see here on LS and IRL who seem to want M but don't want to accept its fundamental principles. Ms are built on trust and commitment. So if it's an open M, then there's trust and commitment. If it's based on religion or culture like an arranged M, it still requires trust and major commitment. What I'm talking about is the idea people seem to have that they should be M and yet be able to eff around in secret. In other words, they want a M where their partner is trustworthy and committed but they aren't.

 

Oh, so true! My XH told me that if I had done the same thing he did after the 1st affair, he would have left me. NEVER MIND THE 2ND ONE!!!! When I asked him how could he then think I should stay with him, he said well, you have to decide whether our marriage is worth it. UGH Selfish, self centered, self serving and stupid man.