eri_lynn Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 Long story short (this timeline below began on February 11 of this year): He cheated. I caught him. We decided to divorce, then decided to work on it, then he decided he couldn't work on the marriage, then we decided to divorce again. That stuck for about two weeks. He's been staying at his sister's house for about a month now, so we've been separated for that long. Fast forward to today, when we're 11 days away from putting our house on the market, we've told all our friends and family everything, we're ready to sell my ring and re-home our dogs and basically start over by ourselves. But...now we're both feeling like we might be rushing things (selling the house being like jumping off a cliff without a parachute), there are almost certainly still feelings for each other, we think we might be able to work on our marital problems and have indeed both made progress through IC on those problems, and in short, we're finally able to remember the good things in our marriage, of which there were many. So I'm left with this: If we fix everything else, is it possible to forgive him and trust him again? Am I being stupid? I know I would be fine on my own, so it's not that I need him to live, in fact I can see a good future for myself with or without him. But until this happened, I never considered growing old with anyone but him, despite our marital issues. I am so confused! Has anyone else out there had to make this choice, and what did you do? How did you decide? How long should I endure this gray area? Full disclosure: Other woman was also married, half his age, is divorcing her husband, and is not, I believe, an issue anymore. They do work at the same place. It was very a short-lived and more emotional than physical affair. So I'm told, anyway. Thanks, EL
Jstub Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 Forgiveness is the final form of love. --Reinhold Niebuhr Having said that, things will not be the same, at least for a long time, rebuilding trust is very hard and it takes two people, however I think it is possible. Do you love him enough to forgive him? Does he love you enough to cherish that final form of love and be in it 100%, realize what he almost lost? You have to answer those questions to yourself. I am in the same boat, my wife cheated on me and I am divorcing her, because I do not see any real regrets or real actions that make her worthy of my forgiveness. I hope this helps you. I am sorry for your pain.
Owl Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 It's POSSIBLE. It's also not always wise. What is he doing to rebuild trust, to demonstrate true remorse, and to reconcile and rebuild the marriage after the damage he's done? Is he willing to give you full access to his email/phone/etc...? Is he willing to attend marriage counselng? Has he agreed to become an "open book" about what happened during the affair, so that you can see that he's at least being honest and truthful now? If he's not completely and totally willing to do all of these things without question...you're wasting your time. If he is...then I'd suggest you post a thread over in the infidelity section, rather than on the divorce section.
tojaz Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 Forgive, yes. Forget, no. Thats an important truth. The question really is CAN YOU forgive a cheater and thats a question only you can answer. To go down this road means to be able to put that chapter firmly in the rear view, work through your issues and then let it go. If he is worried about hearing "at least i'm not a cheater" as an ace card in future conflicts then thats not really forgiveness. That memory will always be there, but you have to be able to let it be a past chapter rather then a recurring theme. TOJAZ 2
Owl Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 That memory will always be there, but you have to be able to let it be a past chapter rather then a recurring theme. TOJAZ Exactly so!
Butterflair Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 First you are not stupid. You want to make the right decisions as this is major stuff. Do you want to save the marriage? It seems that things are moving fast in trying to sell houses and divide assets. Maybe you need to slow down and do some thinking and talking. The first time I found out my former husband had an affair I stuck it out for various reasons. I ended up going through 5 years of hell. Every time he said he gave her up, he didn't. We eventually just plodded along for another 15 years and I thought we did well to move past our troubles and here comes affair #2. (note, at this point there may have been more PA but I only know about the two that got emotional also). I couldn't go through that again. I ended the marriage and got divorced. It was an easy decision to make the second time, something broke inside me. In hindsight, our major error was not addressing the cheating the first time around. I suggest getting the book "Not just friends" and read it. It will describe the affair from all perspectives and gives good advice if you want to save the marriage. Couples counseling would be a good place to start. Mostly it's about talking about the affair and how you feel and how it happened. Ask all the questions, get all the answers. If both of you want to save the marriage and are willing to do the work, then I believe you can salvage it and have a stronger marriage. This requires him to a lot of work to gain your trust again. Only if he will talk about it and help you will it work. As far as forgiveness, I have forgiven my ex though we aren't talking now. He is still with the other woman but I really feel nothing. I wish him well and I'm peaceful. Wish you the best. 2
Steen719 Posted March 31, 2012 Posted March 31, 2012 First you are not stupid. You want to make the right decisions as this is major stuff. Do you want to save the marriage? It seems that things are moving fast in trying to sell houses and divide assets. Maybe you need to slow down and do some thinking and talking. The first time I found out my former husband had an affair I stuck it out for various reasons. I ended up going through 5 years of hell. Every time he said he gave her up, he didn't. We eventually just plodded along for another 15 years and I thought we did well to move past our troubles and here comes affair #2. (note, at this point there may have been more PA but I only know about the two that got emotional also). I couldn't go through that again. I ended the marriage and got divorced. It was an easy decision to make the second time, something broke inside me. In hindsight, our major error was not addressing the cheating the first time around. I suggest getting the book "Not just friends" and read it. It will describe the affair from all perspectives and gives good advice if you want to save the marriage. Couples counseling would be a good place to start. Mostly it's about talking about the affair and how you feel and how it happened. Ask all the questions, get all the answers. If both of you want to save the marriage and are willing to do the work, then I believe you can salvage it and have a stronger marriage. This requires him to a lot of work to gain your trust again. Only if he will talk about it and help you will it work. As far as forgiveness, I have forgiven my ex though we aren't talking now. He is still with the other woman but I really feel nothing. I wish him well and I'm peaceful. Wish you the best. Butterflair, I read this and felt there were some similarities in our stories, so I went to your thread and read your story. My marriage was 22 years with 2 infidelities, the 2nd one about 15 years later, but with an old gf through facebook. There were other factors, his illness, etc. and if you are interested, you can read my story. Anyway...I was impressed by your maturity and how you handled your situation and also am so encouraged by the above bolded part. I have had a really hard few days..crying after the grocery store (everyone had a husband there! lol) and so on. I needed to see what you wrote there. I want to get there, too. Thank you for posting what you did. It helped. And, I am glad that you feel peaceful. We all deserve that.
Ghaleon Posted March 31, 2012 Posted March 31, 2012 I can tell you from experience that once it has happened things will never be the same and it will happen again! Before me and my wife married she cheated twice and then we married because she was so mournful and sorry acting. I couldn't get over it, it ate at me every minute of every day. Now I am alone because I find out that while she was smiling telling me she loved me she was screwing everybody in the town. Another example is my uncle, my aunt cheated on him numerous times and even had a kid from one of this affairs and he stayed with her and now shes very bitter and has aged quickly.
2sunny Posted March 31, 2012 Posted March 31, 2012 Since HE'S not doing everything and anything to be sure he's earning your trust back and set things right - there's not even a starting point yet to consider. He should quit the job. Move back in. Be willing to show you exactly what he's doing and not doing! All that, and more - IF he intends to save the M.
trippi1432 Posted March 31, 2012 Posted March 31, 2012 EL - There is some material on Marriage Builders site, search for Marriage Builders using any search engine, that speaks to How to Survive Infidelity. In that section, there is a sub-section called Can't We Just Forgive and Forget. This might be a very good section for you to read when it comes to making your decision. I would post the link for you, but our guidelines here won't allow it. From your posts in your other thread, a question I would ask at this point is if he has moved past the blame-shifting yet, making you the bad guy and reason for his affair? Do you feel that you want to work it out to prove to him that you are not the bad guy? Being blamed for something like this takes a blow to the ego and self-esteem. Being 41 and divorced is not really a bad thing when it comes to the alternative of being married to someone who does not consider your feelings, respect you or has the potential of being a repeat offender because they do not see the repercussions of the hurt they cause you. As long as he is truly IN the marriage and willing to show you that he is a husband, a friend, a lover, a protector and is steadfast in his love and care for you, you may be able to move past the resentment and find forgiveness. It's not as much that you just have to decide to sweep it under the rug....that's not forgiveness....it will take effort on his part to help you find this for him. If that is not something he thinks he can participate in, then you do deserve better. 1
EgoJoe Posted March 31, 2012 Posted March 31, 2012 Long story short (this timeline below began on February 11 of this year): He cheated. I caught him. We decided to divorce, then decided to work on it, then he decided he couldn't work on the marriage, then we decided to divorce again. That stuck for about two weeks. He's been staying at his sister's house for about a month now, so we've been separated for that long. Fast forward to today, when we're 11 days away from putting our house on the market, we've told all our friends and family everything, we're ready to sell my ring and re-home our dogs and basically start over by ourselves. But...now we're both feeling like we might be rushing things (selling the house being like jumping off a cliff without a parachute), there are almost certainly still feelings for each other, we think we might be able to work on our marital problems and have indeed both made progress through IC on those problems, and in short, we're finally able to remember the good things in our marriage, of which there were many. So I'm left with this: If we fix everything else, is it possible to forgive him and trust him again? Am I being stupid? I know I would be fine on my own, so it's not that I need him to live, in fact I can see a good future for myself with or without him. But until this happened, I never considered growing old with anyone but him, despite our marital issues. I am so confused! Has anyone else out there had to make this choice, and what did you do? How did you decide? How long should I endure this gray area? Full disclosure: Other woman was also married, half his age, is divorcing her husband, and is not, I believe, an issue anymore. They do work at the same place. It was very a short-lived and more emotional than physical affair. So I'm told, anyway. Thanks, EL Before you think about forgiving and working on t follow through with the proceedings for now and see if he shows genuine remorse and tries to fix things with action.
findingnemo Posted March 31, 2012 Posted March 31, 2012 You can forgive...but you will never forget it. Your R won't be the same however it could get better than before depending on how willing he is to change and how willing you are to believe him. There's nothing as bad as making a decision like this and regretting it. Hold off on the sale of the house and stay separated for a while. Work on things between the two of you. No need to decide you're getting back together immediately. Follow your gut instinct but be prepared for things to NOT work out and draw boundaries that when crossed will guide you in deciding.
2.50 a gallon Posted March 31, 2012 Posted March 31, 2012 I have seen marriages that have survived infidelity. And odd as it might seem, I know of a couple where the infidelity might have actually strengthened the marriage as both parties realized what they were about to lose. Sort of a wake up call. I too caught my Ex cheating and kicked her to the curb. Being new to the area, she had no place to go and moved in with the OM. About 30 days after our separation she had an OMG incident when she realized that I was already moving on in life, that she had probably lost me forever and the odds were not good that we would ever get back together again. She did a 180 and desparately tried to get me back and spent the next 3 to 4 years, trying to reconcile with me. However it was too late, I never wanted to reconcile with her. From my point of view, I saw a future relationship with somebody new as starting from zero and working up from there. While with my Ex it would be starting in the minus column and working up to zero. And I truly could never see me trusting her again as a man should trust his wife. I am not sure that my situation can be of much help, as we had only been married 6 months and had little to divide other than our own personal things. The question you might want to ask yourself is has he had that OMG moment when he realized just what he was losing?
Author eri_lynn Posted March 31, 2012 Author Posted March 31, 2012 Do you love him enough to forgive him? Does he love you enough to cherish that final form of love and be in it 100%, realize what he almost lost? You have to answer those questions to yourself. Those are good questions, and sitting here right now I am unsure of the answers. This whole affair (no pun intended) has severely clouded my judgment. I think he feels like he is doing me a favor by deigning to consider trying to work on our marriage. I feel like he's talking the talk, but when it comes down to showing sincere desire to work on us, he's not willing to do the work. Every instinct I have right now is to cut and run.
Author eri_lynn Posted March 31, 2012 Author Posted March 31, 2012 Since HE'S not doing everything and anything to be sure he's earning your trust back and set things right - there's not even a starting point yet to consider. He should quit the job. Move back in. Be willing to show you exactly what he's doing and not doing! All that, and more - IF he intends to save the M. 2sunny, this hit the nail on the head. In calls and emails he is all about "I'm sorry" and "I want to earn you back" but then as soon as he's here, it's like I have to do the earning, not him. Last night he came over, immediately lied to my face about drinking (a huge problem in our marriage) then when I called him on it he got mad and left. If he can't be honest with me about that to start regaining my trust, how on earth can I ever trust him not to cheat again? The result of that tiny interaction was him saying "we aren't on the same page" so we might as well give up already. This breaks my heart because I had hope for a few short days but I really think the answer is staring me in the face. I don't think he wants to work on our marriage, I think he just doesn't want to be alone. And that's no kind of life for me.
Author eri_lynn Posted March 31, 2012 Author Posted March 31, 2012 It's POSSIBLE. It's also not always wise. What is he doing to rebuild trust, to demonstrate true remorse, and to reconcile and rebuild the marriage after the damage he's done? Is he willing to give you full access to his email/phone/etc...? Is he willing to attend marriage counselng? Has he agreed to become an "open book" about what happened during the affair, so that you can see that he's at least being honest and truthful now? If he's not completely and totally willing to do all of these things without question...you're wasting your time. If he is...then I'd suggest you post a thread over in the infidelity section, rather than on the divorce section. He's not really doing anything but talking, with (so far) nothing to back it up. We are planning to talk today, but frankly after the kerfuffle last night I have very low expectations and expect we will be postponing the house sale by a matter of weeks, not months. Bottom line I think he's regretting what he did, but only because he knows he threw away our comfortable life and now wants it back so he doesn't have to go it alone. I deserve better than that, and I can do better than that!
Author eri_lynn Posted March 31, 2012 Author Posted March 31, 2012 First you are not stupid. You want to make the right decisions as this is major stuff. Do you want to save the marriage? It seems that things are moving fast in trying to sell houses and divide assets. Maybe you need to slow down and do some thinking and talking. The first time I found out my former husband had an affair I stuck it out for various reasons. I ended up going through 5 years of hell. Every time he said he gave her up, he didn't. We eventually just plodded along for another 15 years and I thought we did well to move past our troubles and here comes affair #2. (note, at this point there may have been more PA but I only know about the two that got emotional also). I couldn't go through that again. I ended the marriage and got divorced. It was an easy decision to make the second time, something broke inside me. In hindsight, our major error was not addressing the cheating the first time around. I suggest getting the book "Not just friends" and read it. It will describe the affair from all perspectives and gives good advice if you want to save the marriage. Couples counseling would be a good place to start. Mostly it's about talking about the affair and how you feel and how it happened. Ask all the questions, get all the answers. If both of you want to save the marriage and are willing to do the work, then I believe you can salvage it and have a stronger marriage. This requires him to a lot of work to gain your trust again. Only if he will talk about it and help you will it work. As far as forgiveness, I have forgiven my ex though we aren't talking now. He is still with the other woman but I really feel nothing. I wish him well and I'm peaceful. Wish you the best. Butterflair, this is my greatest fear. I'm not sure he's not going to be a repeat offender. And I don't want to face this again 5 months or 5 years down the road. He's doing nothing now to work on rebuilding trust, just a bunch of "I'm sorry's" and "I know I hurt you's" but I don't think he really understands what the affair did to us. To me.
tojaz Posted March 31, 2012 Posted March 31, 2012 Butterflair, this is my greatest fear. I'm not sure he's not going to be a repeat offender. And I don't want to face this again 5 months or 5 years down the road. He's doing nothing now to work on rebuilding trust, just a bunch of "I'm sorry's" and "I know I hurt you's" but I don't think he really understands what the affair did to us. To me. He probably doesn't Eri. He had to warp a lot of his own perceptions to allow himself to do that. In doing something we know is wrong most reasonable people need a lot of convincing to go through with it. yes he knows he's hurt you, but he won't know how to rebuild trust because he has worked so hard to minimize it in himself in order to go through with it. Hes not going to educate himself! Be blunt, gentle but firm and tell him what he NEEDS to do in order to regain your trust. Then the ball is in his court. Hopefully he makes a wise play with it. I will say that the remarks that cheaters always cheat again, and once a cheater always a cheater is BS. TOJAZ
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