Dumping Someone for Getting Too Fat

[Feelsgoodman]

It's not a matter of what makes me feel better. It's a matter of discussing things that are important.

 

You keep saying "American women this and that". You fail to include American men in any of your criticisms. American men are the fattest in the world!

It's true that American men are the fattest in the world. That doesn't make American women any slimmer.

 

IMO, non-fat Americans of both genders need to come together and reject obesity by refusing to date fat men/women. Only then will the fat ones be motivated to change.

[123321]

You keep saying "American women this and that". You fail to include American men in any of your criticisms. American men are the fattest in the world!

 

I heard that Aussies have us beat now, but that was just from an Aussie 2-3 days ago, he might be wrong. In any case, Americans are fat people. One reason I left was to get out of that unhealthy lifestyle.

[Feelsgoodman]

It's not a matter of what makes me feel better. It's a matter of discussing things that are important.

If you spent as much time exercising as you do discussing this "important" issue, you'd be thinner than Lindsay Lohan.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

If you spent as much time exercising as you do discussing this "important" issue, you'd be thinner than Lindsay Lohan.

 

It's one thing to disagree with me. It's another when you start making ignorant purposely disparaging comments.

[dasein]

There was a recent article that actually says that men do not have a healthy idea about what a healthy woman's BMI is.

 

There are hundreds of "articles" every day today with the message "men bad, women good." That such an article is hinged on BMI perceptions means it's an article I wouldn't care to read because BMI is such a bogus measure when applied to individual bodies.

 

BMI is a statistical number used to measure populations, it isn't, nor was ever intended, an individual target to strive for unless the particular body in question is completely average. Most people, especially those with natural significant musculature who exercise, build more muscle tissue, remove fat from their muscles in the process, and see excellent results in the mirror will quickly find that their BMI is headed in the "wrong" direction over time due to them doing the right things and getting the right results (increasing muscle mass % and gaining muscle weight). Muscle tissue is heavier than fat tissue. My personal goal, for example, is to become more and more "obese" by BMI standards every trip to the gym. Most people who have an average or above skeleton and musculature, who get into an exercise program will, in time, have the exact same goal. So what good is a measure like that when estimating the fitness of individuals? Very little. Body fat % is much more useful, and even that measure is abused.

Edited April 2, 2012 by dasein

[Mme. Chaucer]

IMO, non-fat Americans of both genders need to come together and reject obesity by refusing to date fat men/women. Only then will the fat ones be motivated to change.

 

Awesome! I applaud you in stepping forth to spearhead this crucial movement, to fight for important social change!

 

SHUN THE FATTIES!

 

Now there's some placard material for you!

[zengirl]

Awesome! I applaud you in stepping forth to spearhead this crucial movement, to fight for important social change!

 

SHUN THE FATTIES!

 

Now there's some placard material for you!

 

Seriously. If you don't want to date someone, don't date them. But why get upset that other people find someone who you deem "too fat for love" attractive and choose to love them?

 

This is a message of hate, and that's why I can't stand what these threads turn into. I actually didn't date fat guys when I was single -- not out of principle, but because it's not the aesthetic I prefer. Bigness, in general, is not something I dig. That's a personal preference. If I were to turn it into a crusade and associate largeness or fatness with "should not be loved," that would be bigotry.

 

I suppose it'd be ironic of me to say that bigots should not be loved now.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Awesome! I applaud you in stepping forth to spearhead this crucial movement, to fight for important social change!

 

SHUN THE FATTIES!

 

Now there's some placard material for you!

 

This seriously made me laugh.

[namenottaken]

Among Americans age 20 and older, 149.3 million are overweight or obese (BMI of 25.0 kg/m2 and higher):

 

- 78.0 million men.

 

- 71.3 million women.

 

Just a little perspective on what gender has a higher percentage of being overweight.

 

I wonder, seeing that more men are overweight than women, why it’s mostly the men who seem to have such an issue with weight.

 

What’s their excuse? Pregnancy? Hormones?

 

 

http://www.heart.org/idc/groups/heart-public/@wcm/@sop/@smd/documents/downloadable/ucm_319588.pdf

[Mme. Chaucer]

Among Americans age 20 and older, 149.3 million are overweight or obese (BMI of 25.0 kg/m2 and higher):

 

- 78.0 million men.

 

- 71.3 million women.

 

Just a little perspective on what gender has a higher percentage of being overweight.

 

I wonder, seeing that more men are overweight than women, why it’s mostly the men who seem to have such an issue with weight.

 

What’s their excuse? Pregnancy? Hormones?

 

 

 

Silly! Womens' JOB is to be "hot," desirable and appealing to her husband, or else shut up if he seeks a woman who is.

 

Men have no such job.

 

I'm not sure why, though …

[namenottaken]

Silly! Womens' JOB is to be "hot," desirable and appealing to her husband, or else shut up if he seeks a woman who is.

Darn it! I thought my job was to do as ‘they’ say, not as ‘they’ do. Oh, and to accept them and all their faults, while diligently working on the one’s they find in me.

[dasein]

Life happens. Women aren’t perfect. They make mistakes and a lot of times, women end up sacrificing themselves to take care of everyone else. Women don’t just reside at home anymore. They go to work and statistically even at this day and age, even though men do take on more household and kid duties, still take on the majority of these.

 

Stop with the notion that expecting one's partner to make basic, healthy life choices is the same as expecting perfection. It's not. Dismissing the chronic obesity epidemic in the U.S., that costs all of us, as mostly the product of noble, self-sacrificing women (or men) just doesn't hold water. In all but a few cases, letting oneself go is a function of laziness and bad choices.

 

And men don’t do the same thing?

 

Some few men do. IME I've rarely seen a man who let himself go after marriage. Have seen many women do it.

 

You don’t criticize your own wife and call her names like “Butterbean”! That is so ignorant Dasein. Instead you support her. You talk to her like she is a human being.

 

Yep, coddle fat women always, til the end of time, I get the message loud and clear. Look around you and tell me if that's working on a cultural level. If someone finds themselves in a relationship, sure they can simply leave, and IMO they should get out yesterday if they aren't happy, male or female. So those can save their complaints, I don't want to hear them. If OTOH they are married with kids, they get some latitude. If someone who is themself a good spouse has had to endure years of living with someone who is very plainly lazy and believes wrongfully their obligation to be fit and sexually attractive to their mate ends at childbirth, I cut some slack when they vent or get pissed off because they have usually tried things the sensitive way... for years. They have every right to vent because it's almost always a case of entitlement, laziness and disrespect, and they are trapped.

 

But I suppose it's only the fat wife's feelings, not the trapped husband's that matters. I have friends in their 20s and 30s whose sexual life is effectively -over- due to marrying a woman who let herself go, and very plainly considers her bedroom duties done for good once she's had kids. In essence the man was defrauded into marrying a woman who represented herself one way to get what she wanted, and then once she had it, threw all care for her husband and his desires out the window. Those men are angry and should be, and if they have tried to be encouraging, sensitive, helpful, and are good husbands generally, to no avail, they can call their wives whatever they like, because she -deserves- it and has earned it over time.

 

I doubt your friends are being that supportive. From your talk here, it doesn’t sound like it.

 

You're wrong about my friends and acquaintances. And moreover, there is a line when the obligation to be "supportive" runs out, and that line is when the other party plainly doesn't care about the vows they took when they got married and demonstrates that clearly over time.

 

And then the funniest cases I've seen involve a woman, who suddenly decides, out of the blue, that it's time to get attractive again after 10-15 years of being a whale, denying sex due to her body issues, or alternatively, doling it out like a reward 4 times a year, and treating her husband's sexual desire like dirt. And of course he's supposed to come around like a good dog and respond to her whim instantly. Those often complain in public, "He won't touch me any more," and even start coming on to his friends (me). I think to myself, "Babe, he was done with you a long, long time ago, and -you- did that, not him, and thank GOD I'm not in his shoes, married to a lazy whale half my life and a cheater waiting to happen the other."

 

Men get fat all the time. Men go bald. Do you know what I hear from women when their man’s bodies change? They still love them! They don’t berate them for their weight. They don’t call them names.

 

This thread isn't about health changes due to aging, but significant weight gain involving mostly voluntary choices, getting fat, in relationships. And as far as women berating their husbands? They sure do, even the ones with no grounds. Even my best female friends whom I love dearly do lots of running down and insulting their husbands, in public, to their faces, probably don't even realize the extent they do it. The other way though? No sirree, that would be "inthenthitive." Men are expected to grin and bear it. But if a husband or man gets fat, don't even pretend it's generally handled sensitively by the wife. It's blared out at every opportunity, sometimes many times a day, to the whole support network.

 

And BS that people don’t have control over their careers.

 

People do have some limited control over their careers. If a partner decides to leave their job voluntarily and do whatever, then sure, fair game to leave them. But as an analogy, comparing a man leaving a woman because she lets herself go physically to a woman leaving a man who makes less money (due to downsizing, layoff, or any other factor outside his control) is disingenous.

[Mme. Chaucer]

People do have some limited control over their careers. If a partner decides to leave their job voluntarily and do whatever, then sure, fair game to leave them. But as an analogy, comparing a man leaving a woman because she lets herself go physically to a woman leaving a man who makes less money (due to downsizing, layoff, or any other factor outside his control) is disingenous.

 

What if she leaves him because he went bald and refuses to get a hair transplant? After all, it's just nature taking its course and the person not taking extra effort to get ahead of it.

[dasein]

Among Americans age 20 and older, 149.3 million are overweight or obese (BMI of 25.0 kg/m2 and higher):

 

- 78.0 million men.

 

- 71.3 million women.

 

Just a little perspective on what gender has a higher percentage of being overweight.

 

Here's a little more perspective to consider. You know all those men at the gym working out? The ones with large muscles and little body fat? They are all of them, each and every one, "obese" by BMI standards, or striving very hard to be. Who knows what % of the male population that is, maybe ~5-15%?

 

You know all those athletes in HS, College, Pro, casual league sports? A high percentage of those are also "obese" by BMI standards, despite training for hours a day to excel physically in their sport. You won't hear -any- talk of BMI in any organized sports. No idea what % of the male population this is.

 

As stated previously, with a 48" chest and 34" waist at over 5'10", I'm "obese" by BMI standards, and seek to become more and more obese every time I go to the gym or play sports. I had a health issue over the winter that made me basically sedentary for 3 months. I lost weight, but look pudgy and flaccid in the mirror. I am just now able to get back into the routine to get more and more "obese"... and lose my pudge in the process.

 

BMI fails as a measure past a certain level of skeleton and muscle mass, which likely explains any disparity in numbers between men and women. Not that the raw numbers mattered anyway.

 

Not suggesting that the OW epidemic in the U.S. is not a very real problem for both genders, for all of us, that must be addressed btw.

[dasein]

What if she leaves him because he went bald and refuses to get a hair transplant? After all, it's just nature taking its course and the person not taking extra effort to get ahead of it.

 

That would be analogous to a woman losing her breasts to cancer and her husband leaving her if she refused to get breast implants. Still want to go there? I really, really don't.

 

Or can we please stay in mostly "voluntary" choice land? Because basic fitness and appearance is outside of a few exceptions, voluntary, a choice, not the product of a disease.

[Mme. Chaucer]

That would be analogous to a woman losing her breasts to cancer and her husband leaving her if she refused to get breast implants. Still want to go there? I really, really don't.

 

You really think that a terrible disease such as cancer is analogous to a guy going bald?

 

Okay, how about if a guy gained weight, but still provided all of the things he'd provided in the marriage / family when he was thin? Do you think that his weight gain is as reprehensible as that of the "blob butterbean" wives you describe earlier in this thread? Are you 100% behind a wife dumping the guy with the "bay window" in favor of a hot guy, or would you criticize her for being superficial?

[Mme. Chaucer]

As stated previously, with a 48" chest and 34" waist at over 5'10", I'm "obese" by BMI standards,

 

Yeah, I know. It's tough to be "big boneded," right?

[zengirl]

Stop with the notion that expecting one's partner to make basic, healthy life choices is the same as expecting perfection. It's not. Dismissing the chronic obesity epidemic in the U.S., that costs all of us, as mostly the product of noble, self-sacrificing women (or men) just doesn't hold water. In all but a few cases, letting oneself go is a function of laziness and bad choices.

 

Leaving aside the rest of the contention for a minute, I think a lot of this comes down to what you think "letting oneself go" is. I'm not sure what you consider "letting yourself go" really. Most people don't retain the same level of fitness as they age and add lifestyle choices (harder work, kids, etc) and change priorities. That seems the natural course of life to me.

 

Would it surprise you to know that I think fixating on fitness to the point where many people (without the stronger range of metabolisms) would need to to maintain anything close to their 20 year old bodies at 50 would seem ultimately UNHEALTHY to me? The notion that no level of fitness is ever too much fitness is odd to me. Middle path and all. I find it supremely unhealthy to WANT to look 20 when you're 50 to the point where you sacrifice other lifestyle issues for it (granted, if one does so by truly focusing on active things they love, that's one thing, but most people don't truly love the exercise they do) If it were choose between several hours of exercise + calorie counting per day for the rest of my life OR live my life the way I want to within reasonable health parameters (i.e. getting all the nutrients I need and occasional physical activity) and gain 10-20 lbs, I'd gain 10-20 lbs. In fact, I probably WILL gain 10lbs or so at least as I age. My mom did gain a teensy bit. Not enough to change her dress size considerably, but she doesn't have the body she once did. Most middle aged people don't unless they consciously fixate on their body to that degree---which seems unhealthy to me.

 

Now: Gaining an extreme amount of weight does not seem normal or natural -- nor do I often see it with women; I meet very few people my mothers' age who are truly fat now that weren't fat in their 20s and 30s; I would say I see that phenomenon more with men, who tend to get the beer belly after they're married and let it keep growing. But perhaps those are just the demos of the Southeast, I don't know. This is not to say the women in my mother's peer group are mostly fitness models or look like 20 year olds; they are not and do not. But they can shop in the non plus-size stores, etc, and have not gained significant weight to be indistinguishable from their younger selves.

Edited April 2, 2012 by zengirl

[gotye]

Here's a little more perspective to consider. You know all those men at the gym working out? The ones with large muscles and little body fat? They are all of them, each and every one, "obese" by BMI standards, or striving very hard to be. Who knows what % of the male population that is, maybe ~5-15%?

 

You know all those athletes in HS, College, Pro, casual league sports? A high percentage of those are also "obese" by BMI standards, despite training for hours a day to excel physically in their sport. You won't hear -any- talk of BMI in any organized sports. No idea what % of the male population this is.

 

As stated previously, with a 48" chest and 34" waist at over 5'10", I'm "obese" by BMI standards, and seek to become more and more obese every time I go to the gym or play sports. I had a health issue over the winter that made me basically sedentary for 3 months. I lost weight, but look pudgy and flaccid in the mirror. I am just now able to get back into the routine to get more and more "obese"... and lose my pudge in the process.

 

BMI fails as a measure past a certain level of skeleton and muscle mass, which likely explains any disparity in numbers between men and women. Not that the raw numbers mattered anyway.

 

Not suggesting that the OW epidemic in the U.S. is not a very real problem for both genders, for all of us, that must be addressed btw.

when theres someone like you, waist measurement checks fir obesity or not and anything under 40 n ur fine

[dasein]

You really think that a terrible disease such as cancer is analogous to a guy going bald?

 

In essence it's the same thing, losing a physical feature that bears on attractiveness due to factors beyond one's control, both cancer and male pattern baldness are diseases. But the point was that basic health and fitness choices, which I don't think anyone in the thread is expecting anything but that from their SO/spouse, are largely a matter of choice, so continuing to emphasize examples that are beyond control, such as real health issues or income, is whitewashing the main issue.

 

Okay, how about if a guy gained weight, but still provided all of the things he'd provided in the marriage / family when he was thin? Do you think that his weight gain is as reprehensible as that of the "blob butterbean" wives you describe earlier in this thread? Are you 100% behind a wife dumping the guy with the "bay window" in favor of a hot guy, or would you criticize her for being superficial?

 

Sex is a big component of marriage. Everyone has corresponding rights and duties, IMO, to take steps to preserve their sexual attractiveness in marriage. If the wife was faced with a husband who let himself go to butterbean proportions due to lifestyle choices, and she became repulsed at the prospect of sex with him, and that was a big issue for her, then sure, she should leave the marriage, because he didn't live up to his vows, and denied her something he promised that is important to her.

 

But saying again, I'm sure it happens, just have never seen it myself, a man letting himself go while the wife remains in decent shape. IME it's always the other way around, and of couples I know, the man tends to keep the basic level of shape he had when married. If people choose to marry OW people, then sure complaining later is superficial.

[dasein]

Yeah, I know. It's tough to be "big boneded," right?

 

I'm happy with my body shape generally, and when looking around, feel blessed with the genetics I got doled out. The point was that BMI is flawed when applied to individuals instead of statistically to populations.

[Mme. Chaucer]

I can't wrap my mind around your assertion that breast cancer and male pattern baldness are comparable.

 

 

But saying again, I'm sure it happens, just have never seen it myself, a man letting himself go while the wife remains in decent shape. IME it's always the other way around,

 

I can't believe that you've never seen that yourself. I guess you probably have very selective vision, if you're being honest.

 

My physical body is in much better shape than my husband's, and he used to be a semi-professional baseball player. And his sister is very thin, with a FAT husband (who played football in college when they married).

 

Several of my fit middle aged women friends have overweight husbands.

 

My father was a doctor and his friends were hard working, financially successful professionals. He developed quite a stomach as he got older. Lots of his peers were the same. My mom, along with many of the wives, went to quite a bit of trouble to maintain a slim figure and took care of their looks in other ways, too. I think they were conscious of the attitude that is expressed here - that they better do their best, or their successful husbands might leave them for someone younger and "better." It actually did happen a lot in their social world. My memories are full of red faced, overweight middle aged men with very thin wives.

 

There was NO social pressure for the men to maintain their looks, and tons for the women. The men were valued for other things. Of course, my mom and lots of the wives were trying to get their husbands to lose weight and be fit, since there was a high incidence of heart attacks among them.

 

Of course I know fat women married to fit men too. But I wonder where you live and who you see if you have NEVER seen fit women whose husbands have let themselves go physically.

[namenottaken]

BMI fails as a measure past a certain level of skeleton and muscle mass, which likely explains any disparity in numbers between men and women. Not that the raw numbers mattered anyway.

 

Not suggesting that the OW epidemic in the U.S. is not a very real problem for both genders, for all of us, that must be addressed btw.

I agree that it is a problem for both genders and that’s why I question why the men seem to be the one’s doing all the complaining about women. Your post even tries to imply that the numbers for the men are incorrect, as if you want to blind yourself to the fact that this is not a predominately female problem, but a predominately male one.

 

The BMI allows for the skeletal and muscle mass difference between men and women. It takes into account that men have a higher muscle mass and larger skeletal frame than women, so the disparity you mention does not exist.

 

But to use your logic, it also doesn’t take into account all the women you see working out at the gym, and women athletes with more muscle mass than some men. So that should even the ‘disparity’ out when taken into account.

 

I think it’s a given (or it should be) that the BMI is not individualized, but is a good base to use. If you want individual accuracy get a fat caliper and a measuring tape.

 

I’m 5’9 and weigh 128 pounds. I workout and eat healthy to stay the size I am, but, I have friends who workout and eat healthy who cannot lose a pound to save their life. Why is that? Hormones? Age? Muscle mass? Metabolism? All of which play a role…

 

Some people on here would have you believe that it’s as easy as calories in equal’s calories out; that is way too simplistic. To even suggest that it is, is pure ignorance.

 

Obesity is an epidemic in this country, and so is bashing people who don’t fit into an ideal mold of what others think they should look like. I don’t support either one.

[Mme. Chaucer]

I just want to add: I do think that if people completely lose attraction for their spouse, for whatever reason (including fat) , and if "working on it" fails to help - I understand if they need to move on.

 

I just hope that by the time the physical bodies start to take a nosedive, there is enough in place between the couple that they still feel a lot for one another in spite of that.

[FitChick]

The health argument strikes me as a bit of a red herring in this argument which is about what people find attractive in a partner. From my perspective, dating is just marketing yourself to the opposite sex, so use that to your advantage if you are smart.

 

If two people were selling their cars and one had it detailed, waxed, new tires, paint touched up, every repair record showing frequent maintenance, and the other person's car was dirty, scratched, dented, badly maintained for years, who do you think would sell their car first?

 

I disagree that married men don't let themselves go. I think it's pretty equal deterioration from what I've seen although when women gain they seem to gain more.

 

I don't think you can use age as an excuse either for being fat and unfit. This woman doesn't.

 

I think most women should let themselves go and not make an effort. Less competition for me!