phineas Posted April 1, 2012 Posted April 1, 2012 I agree with every point you made. Every letter of the entire post. What happens when three becomes four, by fate? Seems like you didn't really think things through before getting pregnant again. Yes. But I must of missed the post where someone said a woman needs to be the same BF% as a man. If i'd seen it i'd tell them their wrong because the female equivalent on 10%Bf is around 18%BF. That's visible ab muscles territory.
dasein Posted April 1, 2012 Posted April 1, 2012 To expect a woman to have the same percentage of fat as men, particularly young men in their teens and twenties whereby their testosterone levels are at their peak, would be delusional. Which is probably why no one in this thread or anywhere else does expect women generally to have the same percentage of fat as men. Since we are generalizing, you forgot to mention that whereas male bodies may have an advantage in building muscle, female bodies have an advantage in retaining less overall body fat in the core, where 90% of visual assessments of whether someone is fat or not takes place. Fat in the thighs, hips, ass, breasts, and arms is not judged visually nearly as harshly as fat in the belly and waist, and women do have a distinct advantage in that area.
FitChick Posted April 1, 2012 Posted April 1, 2012 Eating right to some people means not eating in front of other people. I had a co-worker that use to complain how she works out hard and eats practically nothing but still can't lose weight (she was easily morbidly obese). I never saw her work out, maybe she does, I don't know. But I do know she hides food and eats it when people aren't looking and then eats "only a salad" in front of everybody. I firmly believe that she believes her own lies that she is really trying to lose weight. A formerly fat friend admitted to doing this so I'm sure it's quite common.
RiverRunning Posted April 1, 2012 Posted April 1, 2012 When it comes to, "Is it okay to dump someone for gaining too much weight"...I think that really depends. Are we talking 5 or 10 pounds? Most of a 5 pound weight gain could easily be bloating (some of it fat, sure). Are we talking 30 pounds? 50 pounds? I think those amounts are much larger and I would think it would depend on the length of the relationship. Dating less than a year? I'm not shocked if 30 pounds is a dealbreaker. But I would hope that people would try to iron that out before running off. It's important to ask WHY the weight is being gained. I've been semi-successfully losing weight for a year now (and before that, largely maintaining for a year or two). Food was comfort for me. When I was sad, I went for the fattest foods I could find. The rush of energy and excitement made me feel GOOD because I otherwise felt so awful - about my body, my life in general, etc. And after that food was gone, I felt a wave of guilt and depression. Where did I go to help curb those feelings? As of late, while I've successfully stopped using food as much for comfort - I have actually turned my impulses toward shopping (not good, if you haven't guessed). It's not always as simple as, "Hmm, she's gained weight, she needs to lose it." Often there is an emotional need that the food is filling. Maybe a girlfriend's overeating because your relationship is empty, and it gives her comfort and pleasure (besides, eating junk food is PLEASURABLE and it doesn't take much work). Maybe a person has gained weight because they've injured themselves, which can interfere with working out. Maybe they've legitimately been diagnosed with an illness that affects their ability to lose weight (or God forbid, maybe they've gotten the Depo-Provera birth control shot. I had a friend who gained 80 pounds in a few months). Those issues -should- be dealt with before someone bails (unless of course it's not a serious relationship, in which case I think you're justified to bail whenever). Injured? Is there another exercise he/she could do? What treatments are available for any illnesses that make weight loss difficult? How can you fill the gap that a sedentary lifestyle and/or overeating is currently filling? I don't think it's wise to -ever- tell a significant other, "You're fat and I want you to lose weight." I still think the best tactic is to try and encourage a spouse to go working out with you (try to figure out activities he will find enjoyable) and to offer to cook. Make a competition out of finding low-calorie meal ideas. Make it a challenge to only go out to eat once a week or once a month. And if a significant other refuses those ideas...that is really the end of the road. You cannot manipulate, insult or coerce someone into exercising for YOU. They will have to do that when they are ready. No amount of fat-shaming is going to accomplish anything. I always hated relationships I had where the guys I was dating gained more weight than I did during the course of the relationship, but they were the ones to pressure - me- to drop the pounds. Telling someone they're fat probably does make them think about losing weight. But c'mon - do you really think any fat person doesn't a.) know they're fat and b.) Want to not be fat anymore (besides feeders, anyway)? Telling someone they're fat or that you're dumping them because they're fat is most likely to trigger feelings of depression and no worth. It's also likely that the person's just going to go to their usual comfort source after hearing something like that from a partner. But if you date someone who gains a significant amount of weight, and after trying to work through the problem it appears they're not willing to work on it, I think it's totally fair to walk out - especially if you aren't married. The only exception to this is if you START dating someone who's already overweight, and then you flip-flop and decide you can't tolerate that anymore. It boggles my mind how some folks decide to start dating someone for the sole purpose of expressing their disapproval and trying to get said partner to change.
ascendotum Posted April 1, 2012 Posted April 1, 2012 Gaining weight is not always a result of depression and not caring about looks, I assure you. I was a SKINNY girl. Really skinny. I hated it. I really needed to come to terms with all that on MY OWN TERMS. Having a husband who "wanted a thin wife" would probably have driven me in the opposite direction. I can't really explain why, but pressure from the outside does not seem to help people lose weight. Better to be a skinny girl than skinny guy thats for sure when it comes to your love life MC. Anyway, the bit I want to comment on, is the bolded part. I don't undertsand this, and I've seen a couple of other posts from women on LS along the same lines when complaining about their bfs dropping hints to lose weight. I've had overweight gfs in the past and I'm very reluctant to do so anymore. My experience and that of my friends, is that overweight women tend to put on more weight in a relationship. Its a very touchy subject. If you drop hints, they get upset & moody, if you say nothing, they are happy and continue to put on weight, if they work out & slim right down they get a big boost to their confidence and leave for better options or split up over 'subtle' remarks made about their weight gain/food intake over the years (not talking marriages here). As someone who has struggled to put on weight over the years, I never took it to heart when gfs made digs about my weight, or dishing up more food for me. I wanted to bulk up more and there is just no way, I would get obstinate and drop the the gym + extra calories due to a 'I'll teach her to give hints about my weight' mindset. Don't you/other women want to make your bfs proud of you or want to desire you more? (my last comment is specific to the bolded comments)
Disenchantedly Yours Posted April 1, 2012 Posted April 1, 2012 Hunny, I have always maintained in this thread that if you eat too much you get fat. If you eat at deficit you loose weight. It's up to each person to put in the effort to determine what those values are. you obviously don't want to do that. Instead, you post a bunch of unrelated articles that don't address caloric intake that I can see & claim i'm not playing fair or don't want to discuss the facts. The facts are if you eat more than your body burns you get fat. Period. Or are you going to claim all the rescued victims of concentration camps during WW2 were ectomorphs? Or that ectomorphs only existed 60yrs ago when the average weight for a person in this country was 25lbs lighter? Americans Getting Taller, Bigger, Fatter, Says CDC You are the one who doesn't want to discuss the facts. I supported information from websites that substantiates the points I've been making the entire time. Information YOU asked for! Now that I have, you still can't have an honest conversation without being rude and condesending. You claimed there was no such thing as "body type". You've said that it's easy for everyone to loose weight 90% through diet, without exercise. These claims are false. You've ignored the information and held tight to a base argument that has nothing to do with the other things you actually said. Yes, the amount of calories you take in vs what you burn is part of the equation in loosing weight. However, people also burn calories slower or faster then one another. Men tend to actually burn calories faster because men have more muslce mass. There is such a thing as "body type". Recongnized by the medical community themselves even if it's not recongnized by you. And just because *you* could loose weight 90% through diet and not exercise, doesn't mean that's true for everyone. Further, I have no clue what you mean by, "you obviously don't want to do that". I am very aware of the food I eat and the exercise I need to get me to where I want to be. I am no where near overweight BUT I could stand to loose a view pounds. But it is not "easy" as you claim. So don't you dare make claims about how *you* know how I take care of myself and spread them around the board as if what you speak is gospel. And leave all the "hunnys" at the door. They are said because you are purposely attempting to be condesending. Not because you want to be an adult having an adult conversation. Thanks.
Disenchantedly Yours Posted April 1, 2012 Posted April 1, 2012 If someone lets themself go in a relationship, and I don't think anyone in the thread is talking about mild weight gain, 5 or 10 pounds, as "getting fat," then they don't deserve to have a relationship, because they don't respect the relationship or their partner enough. Partners who let themselves go in a relationship don't deserve for that relationship to continue. Having a partner maintain whatever appearance they had at the start to a reasonable degree is just not that high an expectation, rather low actually. Your free to carry out your relationship any way you see fit Dasein. I do not think a weight gain is indicitive of the lack of respect a person has for their partner. Anymore then someone taking less money at work is. Or not getting the same bonus they got the year before. Life is full of ups and downs. And if people are dumping each other because they gained weight, then I see why so many relationships end. expecting perfection within a narrow field with only a little room to wiggle within a relationship is bound to make many relationships crash and burn if neither person holds the mentality of long term commitment in their minds eye. Real commitment, real "for better or worse", means sticking by someone through the hard times and the good. Relationships arne't always easy and they aren't always going to be drama free. And unfortunetly, I don't think people prepare themselves for that. Instead, they come to an issue and take the easy way out. If anything, someone gaining weight is a reflection of how they feel about themselves more then their partner. And in some cases, life happens. And some things in life take presedence over weight. WHich is why someone might let themselves go for their family. There are a lot of expectations on people today. Especially women who have to maintain working, kids, homes and other stuff..I can understand how fitting in time to exercise is hard. Women do have more fat on average, and the standards of attractiveness are adjusted accordingly, so the mere fact that women have more fat on their bodies generally is irrelevant. The standards of attractiveness are adjusted accordingly? How so? Where? When? Because it tends to be women that seem to more willingly and happily deal with a partner that gains weight then men. You don't here the bitterness in women when their partner puts on some pounds. You usually hear how she still loves him. Yet men act like a woman is abusing him because she gained weight. They will say mean disparaging things like "stuffing her face" and other purposely flammatory comments. The women in the media are all very thin and beautiful! Like more thin then I think is average. So I am not sure what you mean that the standards are adjusted. And yes, the fact that women have more body fat is completely irrevelant when comparing what a woman's body should look like and to be considered healthy. AND compared to men's body fat. I have to see if I can't find the article about how men judge women's BMI. There was an article about it recently.
Forever Learning Posted April 1, 2012 Posted April 1, 2012 Here is a link to a presentation by a doctor who teaches something everyone should know about their body but probably none of our parents knew (or their parents on down the line). We have a "cellular switch" which is effected by "WHAT" we eat and not as much how much that determines whether people with any predisposition to obesity will get fat or not. Unleash Your Thin - Video Landing This link was really neat and entertaining, good stuff.
xxoo Posted April 1, 2012 Posted April 1, 2012 The women in the media are all very thin and beautiful! Like more thin then I think is average. So I am not sure what you mean that the standards are adjusted. . We are talking about real men in relationships with real women, not the media. Real men are saying that they find women attractive with a healthy amt of fat for a woman. They don't seek women who have a fat percentage as low as a healthy man.
phineas Posted April 1, 2012 Posted April 1, 2012 I supported information from websites that substantiates the points I've been making the entire time. Information YOU asked for! Now that I have, you still can't have an honest conversation without being rude and condesending. You claimed there was no such thing as "body type". You've said that it's easy for everyone to loose weight 90% through diet, without exercise. These claims are false. You've ignored the information and held tight to a base argument that has nothing to do with the other things you actually said. Yes, the amount of calories you take in vs what you burn is part of the equation in loosing weight. However, people also burn calories slower or faster then one another. Men tend to actually burn calories faster because men have more muslce mass. There is such a thing as "body type". Recongnized by the medical community themselves even if it's not recongnized by you. And just because *you* could loose weight 90% through diet and not exercise, doesn't mean that's true for everyone. Further, I have no clue what you mean by, "you obviously don't want to do that". I am very aware of the food I eat and the exercise I need to get me to where I want to be. I am no where near overweight BUT I could stand to loose a view pounds. But it is not "easy" as you claim. So don't you dare make claims about how *you* know how I take care of myself and spread them around the board as if what you speak is gospel. And leave all the "hunnys" at the door. They are said because you are purposely attempting to be condesending. Not because you want to be an adult having an adult conversation. Thanks. Hunny, I've heard the excuses all before. I know what i'm talking about. The simple fact that you completely ignore anything I post about counting calories tells me all I need to know about you & that the only problem with you loosing weight is your own hardheadedness in refusing to listen to someone who actually knows what their talking about. I'll bet if a woman told you you would listen. So hunny, when your are ready to do it right, send me a PM.
dasein Posted April 1, 2012 Posted April 1, 2012 (edited) Life is full of ups and downs. Yes it is, many beyond our control. For most people though, maintaining reasonable appearance through moderate attention to choices is one of those things that -is- within our control. The phenomenon I'm talking about, and I think many men are, is seeing quite a few friends marry someone, who, once the ring is on the finger and children are had, makes no effort whatsoever in maintaining an attractive feminine appearance. The result is that within a few years of being married, the person looks like an amorphous 200 pound blob who dresses entirely in mommy mode, cuts hair off and styles it unappealingly, always wears unappealing clothes. The impression one gets is "Now that your duty is done, I don't give two sh-ts about being appealing to you anymore. Don't like it? Too bad, ring is on the finger and nothing you can do about it. Do keep earning and holding up your end though, or I will ruin you." In some women I see, it's like a badge of honor, that they flaunt the end of their need to attract someone by becoming utterly unattractive." My friends who are caught in this trap, behind closed doors, are like "well if I wanted to marry Butterbean, I would have proposed to him," and they dare not express this reasonable attitude because they will literally be crucified for it. How dare they criticize the perfection of their wife!? How indeed. That is thoroughly disrespectful, if a man does the equivalent, equally disrespectful (although I can't remember seeing a man unilaterally let himself go in this way other than in middle/old age). And once more, comparing income and career progression to baseline appearance is ridiculous because people simply don't have anywhere near the level of control over their careers, especially in this day and age, that they have over their appearance. Characterizing it as "expecting perfection" is also disingenuous. I've used the phrase "letting oneself go" for a reason, it has nothing to do with "expecting perfection," rationalizations to the contrary notwithstanding. Relationships arne't always easy and they aren't always going to be drama free. Another reason why people who enter relationships and marriage should pay special attention to the factors that -are- relatively easy and within their control as opposed to lazily or even purposefully using their attractiveness or lack thereof to add even -more- strain onto what is a challenge to begin with. There are a lot of expectations on people today. Especially women who have to maintain working, kids, homes and other stuff..I can understand how fitting in time to exercise is hard. I can't understand how fitting in time to exercise is hard, or especially to maintain healthy eating choices, at all. The other things are constantly heard convenient excuses that don't hold any water. Modern day to day life is full of easy fatass choices and only slightly less easy "not fatass" choices, and those choices, by and large are well within our control. The standards of attractiveness are adjusted accordingly? How so? Where? Everywhere. A woman can have a much higher body fat % than a man and still be perceived as attractive or shapely, and this is not a claim that women "have it better" just a fact. Women can carry a very high body fat percentage, and provided they have an acceptable hip waist (waist-hip) ratio, still be perceived as attractive. Moreover, because men generally carry more fat around the core, deviations in male body fat % from "standard" or "healthy" are much more visibly pronounced. Won't debate the points in this paragraph further. Edited April 1, 2012 by dasein
TheBigQuestion Posted April 1, 2012 Posted April 1, 2012 Your free to carry out your relationship any way you see fit Dasein. I do not think a weight gain is indicitive of the lack of respect a person has for their partner. Anymore then someone taking less money at work is. Or not getting the same bonus they got the year before. Life is full of ups and downs. And if people are dumping each other because they gained weight, then I see why so many relationships end. expecting perfection within a narrow field with only a little room to wiggle within a relationship is bound to make many relationships crash and burn if neither person holds the mentality of long term commitment in their minds eye. Real commitment, real "for better or worse", means sticking by someone through the hard times and the good. Relationships arne't always easy and they aren't always going to be drama free. And unfortunetly, I don't think people prepare themselves for that. Instead, they come to an issue and take the easy way out. If anything, someone gaining weight is a reflection of how they feel about themselves more then their partner. And in some cases, life happens. And some things in life take presedence over weight. WHich is why someone might let themselves go for their family. There are a lot of expectations on people today. Especially women who have to maintain working, kids, homes and other stuff..I can understand how fitting in time to exercise is hard. The standards of attractiveness are adjusted accordingly? How so? Where? When? Because it tends to be women that seem to more willingly and happily deal with a partner that gains weight then men. You don't here the bitterness in women when their partner puts on some pounds. You usually hear how she still loves him. Yet men act like a woman is abusing him because she gained weight. They will say mean disparaging things like "stuffing her face" and other purposely flammatory comments. The women in the media are all very thin and beautiful! Like more thin then I think is average. So I am not sure what you mean that the standards are adjusted. And yes, the fact that women have more body fat is completely irrevelant when comparing what a woman's body should look like and to be considered healthy. AND compared to men's body fat. I have to see if I can't find the article about how men judge women's BMI. There was an article about it recently. Significant weight gain will generally signify a lack of self-respect and a sense of indifference towards one's partner, if not outright disrespect. Not expecting my significant other to gain 30+ pounds in a relatively short period of time is NOT the same as me "expecting perfection." Barring a handful of medical conditions, there is never really a good excuse for letting oneself go. I know people who work full time and have kids and mortgages to worry about who also attend law school at night. Many of them eat healthy, exercise, don't "let themselves go," and look good well into their late 30s and 40s. I also know people who are less busy who make themselves out to be the victims of a "busy life," and they blame that for why their appearance and weight goes down the tubes. I don't deny that some people will have a harder time maintaining an aesthetically attractive weight than others. However, this is not the same as flat out giving up. I've heard plenty of women remark negatively about how their boyfriends have put on weight. Of course they still love their boyfriends. Most men wouldn't stop loving their girlfriends if they put on a lot of weight, but it WOULD put a significant strain on the relationship in either scenario. And rightfully so. Again, I understand that women's body issues are near and dear to you, but you're still coming across as making a bunch of excuses for people who let themselves go. I don't get it.
zengirl Posted April 1, 2012 Posted April 1, 2012 You know, I find it downright bizarre for people to decide they "know" what everyone else is doing wrong just because they happened to find something that worked for them. I see this most often with two things: money and weight. You get people who are born with certain advantages. I have an advantage with weight -- I have thin parents. I will always be thin. I may not always be tip-top shape thin, but I will never have to fight obesity. My mother and step-father (my bio-dad is a thin Japanese man, so I have thin genes and thin parents) are both thin people. They both used to be very fit people. My mother used to count calories and watch her weight. I didn't taste regular Coke till I was 20 years old (and it tastes disgusting to me) because regular sodas we never allowed in our house. Nor were regular-fat cookies. Or sugar-added pies. Not that any of that's about health, but it was the 80s and 90s and such were diet staples of the day. I still like low-fat, low-sugar options and diet sodas better, though I imbibe very few of any of that because they're all just as much crap for you as their high-calorie alternatives. Thinner isn't necessarily healthier. They both used to engage in sports they particularly liked, but especially my stepfather. He cannot as much now, due to a recent heart issue and age, and she does not count calories now, because she likes her life more than her figure. They are still thin by anyone's standards, despite the fact they're both in their 50s now (my Sdad is just recently 50 though). But they don't "work at it." Neither do I, though I do exercise and stay fit and eat well because I like doing those things. I also sometimes eat half a chocolate pie by myself, and no one tells me I should exercise some self-control because I'm a size 2. In fact, many men find it downright adorable that I can eat a lot sometimes! It's like the two women from the Gilmore Girls -- thin women who are bottomless pits. My point in all this is THIS IS NOT AN EVEN PLAYING FIELD, AND THERE ARE MANY TYPES OF BODIES. Granted, I don't think anyone needs to be morbidly obese or should excuse that as their body type. But if someone is overweight in a cosmetic sense, there is no need to harp on them about how they could "do better." This actually LEADS to obesity in many cases, as a lot of people who are obese are actually quite obsessed with their weight. I'm not suggesting anyone date or marry someone whose looks they don't like. And certainly a significant change in a person can be a reason to re-assess a relationship. It will differ from person-to-person what they'd do, but they should be open and honest about their preferences and about potential change and understand some things are impossible to "guess" about in general with marriages or such commitments is all. That said, why do conversations like this always lead to wholesale critiques of those struggling with their weight? Why do those who were lucky enough not to have to overcome even think they get a say? As for people like phineas, who did overcome obesity -- and good for him -- I get the mentality a bit more. I think someone in his position who demonstrated empathy for the obesity WHILE giving advice on how to fight it would be better served. Just because you fought one battle doesn't mean it's identical to everyone else's. 2
TheBigQuestion Posted April 1, 2012 Posted April 1, 2012 That said, why do conversations like this always lead to wholesale critiques of those struggling with their weight? Why do those who were lucky enough not to have to overcome even think they get a say? As for people like phineas, who did overcome obesity -- and good for him -- I get the mentality a bit more. I think someone in his position who demonstrated empathy for the obesity WHILE giving advice on how to fight it would be better served. Just because you fought one battle doesn't mean it's identical to everyone else's. I'm in general agreement with what you said, although I guess I disagree with this. I'm sure you noticed that the most vocal "wholesale critics" of people who struggle with their weight in this thread are people who were legitimately obese and worked off the weight. Their criticism isn't leveled at other obese people, but only against those who complain of being marginally to moderately overweight. The formerly obese posters may be lacking in empathy because they know that their initial condition and the battle they had to undergo in order to fix it was way more difficult than what people like DY are talking about/making excuses for. I'm sure these posters are resentful of the fact that people will come up with every excuse under the sun for why they can't get rid of their extra 20 pounds, when they themselves went through hell to lose 80+. 1
Mme. Chaucer Posted April 1, 2012 Posted April 1, 2012 once the ring is on the finger and children are had, makes no effort whatsoever in maintaining an attractive feminine appearance. The result is that within a few years of being married, the person looks like an amorphous 200 pound blob who dresses entirely in mommy mode, cuts hair off and styles it unappealingly, always wears unappealing clothes. The impression one gets is "Now that your duty is done, I don't give two sh-ts about being appealing to you anymore. Don't like it? Too bad, ring is on the finger and nothing you can do about it. Do keep earning and holding up your end though, or I will ruin you. This might happen, but I think it's rare. Yes, many people stop trying to look their best after they're married, but if a woman is a "BLOB", she is scorned by society pretty much. Remaining that way probably has a lot more to do with her own feelings about herself than some kind of attempt to mess with her husband. Of course, if a man is married to a blob, he's entitled to dislike it regardless of her reasons for being a blob.
zengirl Posted April 1, 2012 Posted April 1, 2012 I'm in general agreement with what you said, although I guess I disagree with this. I'm sure you noticed that the most vocal "wholesale critics" of people who struggle with their weight in this thread are people who were legitimately obese and worked off the weight. Their criticism isn't leveled at other obese people, but only against those who complain of being marginally to moderately overweight. The formerly obese posters may be lacking in empathy because they know that their initial condition and the battle they had to undergo in order to fix it was way more difficult than what people like DY are talking about/making excuses for. I'm sure these posters are resentful of the fact that people will come up with every excuse under the sun for why they can't get rid of their extra 20 pounds, when they themselves went through hell to lose 80+. This is true in some cases (I thought only phineas was ever actually obese but perhaps others were too?), and I was going to say more on that but my post got too long. fwiw, I'm not for someone making an excuse to stay in a status that makes them unhappy. I'm very much against that. If someone is overweight or obese and it is impacting their life to the point where they can complain about the weight or its impacts (say, on dating life), then suggesting that they make some kind of change -- to the weight or something else, including sometimes expectations -- is perfectly reasonable as are suggesting changes. What is NOT reasonable is being disgusted that you were once fat (or poor or whatever) and being self-righteous because you overcame it (good for you, but everyone does not have the exact same issues or route, etc) and then externalizing those feelings into trying to shame others. I'm not convinced someone like phineas was actually trying to do this, ftr -- I just think he comes off harshly in this thread -- but I know it's human nature to do it. Actually, there's no reason for this to devolve into a discussion of this nature. But it always does whenever weight is mentioned. Why? At any rate, from what I understand, the last 20 pounds is much harder to lose than the first 20 if you're very obese, and anyone who's lost weight can usually tell you that. Many people will never lose the last 20, or 10, or 5 pounds, and I think that's okay, frankly. Life is too short to worry about such things-- I'm not sure I'd be fit and trim if I had to work at it every day and weigh out calories to get there. Honestly. I'd probably never be morbidly obese, but if my metabolism dramatically changed, I would not work many times as hard to maintain the same results. Why? It's just not the biggest priority, IMO.
dasein Posted April 1, 2012 Posted April 1, 2012 This might happen, but I think it's rare. Yes, many people stop trying to look their best after they're married, but if a woman is a "BLOB", she is scorned by society pretty much. Remaining that way probably has a lot more to do with her own feelings about herself than some kind of attempt to mess with her husband. Of course, if a man is married to a blob, he's entitled to dislike it regardless of her reasons for being a blob. Of the married couples I have known over the years, this is the case about 20% of the time, and it also seems to go in clusters. If the woman's friends are also health conscious who took the steps to stay reasonably fit and attractive, the odds that she will too seems higher. If OTOH, the woman's friends let themselves go, it's more likely she will, This is true of men also who either tend to have friends with active hobbies and interests, and don't sit around drinking beer and watching sports when not working, or not IME. It seems to be more a function of culture and choice, than being busy and medically incapable of being fit.
Disenchantedly Yours Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 We are talking about real men in relationships with real women, not the media. Real men are saying that they find women attractive with a healthy amt of fat for a woman. They don't seek women who have a fat percentage as low as a healthy man. There was a recent article that actually says that men do not have a healthy idea about what a healthy woman's BMI is. Many men had rated a woman with a healthy BMI as overweight. And women that had a BMI that was lower then what was considered healthy, as healthy. I will see if I can't find the article. And actually, we were talking about both. Relationships and perceptions of thinness in the media. At least I was. Please do not dictate what we are all collectively speaking about. Since you can't speak for everyone.
Disenchantedly Yours Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 Hunny, I've heard the excuses all before. I know what i'm talking about. The simple fact that you completely ignore anything I post about counting calories tells me all I need to know about you & that the only problem with you loosing weight is your own hardheadedness in refusing to listen to someone who actually knows what their talking about. I'll bet if a woman told you you would listen. So hunny, when your are ready to do it right, send me a PM. Phineas, considering the way you have talked to me, and how I see you talk about women in general, I would not feel like you would be a very safe person to come to for any kind of information or support. But let it be recongnized that I provided information from legit sites that backed up everything I had been saying from teh beginning. You have yet to do so. It doesn't matter how many times you call me "hunny". It doesn't change the track record.
Oxy Moronovich Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 I don't know about all this garbage about body types. I just know about how the male mind works. If a woman is overweight and no longer attractive to her man, she better do someworking out regardless of the excuses (i.e. body type, pregnancy). A smart man will be understanding and help her lose the weight. But it will be a huge turn-off to any guy if his woman gives excuses for not losing the weight.
Disenchantedly Yours Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 Yes it is, many beyond our control. For most people though, maintaining reasonable appearance through moderate attention to choices is one of those things that -is- within our control. Life happens. Women aren’t perfect. They make mistakes and a lot of times, women end up sacrificing themselves to take care of everyone else. Women don’t just reside at home anymore. They go to work and statistically even at this day and age, even though men do take on more household and kid duties, still take on the majority of these. The phenomenon I'm talking about, and I think many men are, is seeing quite a few friends marry someone, who, once the ring is on the finger and children are had, makes no effort whatsoever in maintaining an attractive feminine appearance. And men don’t do the same thing? Come on. We all see families out and about all the time. I hardly see a lot of good looking married Dad types. I see a lot of overweight men and women. I see a lot of stress on the faces of these dad’s and mom’s. The result is that within a few years of being married, the person looks like an amorphous 200 pound blob who dresses entirely in mommy mode, cuts hair off and styles it unappealingly, always wears unappealing clothes. The impression one gets is "Now that your duty is done, I don't give two sh-ts about being appealing to you anymore. Don't like it? Too bad, ring is on the finger and nothing you can do about it. Do keep earning and holding up your end though, or I will ruin you." In some women I see, it's like a badge of honor, that they flaunt the end of their need to attract someone by becoming utterly unattractive." My friends who are caught in this trap, behind closed doors, are like "well if I wanted to marry Butterbean, I would have proposed to him," and they dare not express this reasonable attitude because they will literally be crucified for it. How dare they criticize the perfection of their wife!? How indeed. You don’t criticize your own wife and call her names like “Butterbean”! That is so ignorant Dasein. Instead you support her. You talk to her like she is a human being. Even if she isn’t the hot human being you want her to be at that moment an time because of your own needs. You don’t refer to the person you married as a “blob”. You don’t become so embittered for a set back in a relationship that you stop supporting your partner. If you see them falling into something you don’t agree with, you talk to them like a human being, and you come to a conclusion together about how to change the “problem”. I doubt your friends are being that supportive. From your talk here, it doesn’t sound like it. When one partner is falling into a weakness, that’s the time the other partner picks up the slack. because that’s what you do when you really love someone. You support them, you try to help them. You do not look at them with bitterness in your heart and call them names because they let their body change. You get to the heart of why this happened. Because I can guarantee that most women that gain a significant amount of weight aren’t even really happy with themselves and know their bodies aren’t what they use to be. But they got so much pressure between kids, husband and job and keeping a home clean, that they don’t know what to do and where to go. What do you think is more helpful to them? A supportive, warm, kind husband or one that looks at his wife and things “blob” even secretly? Grow up. We aren’t in high school anymore. It’s time men acted more supportive instead of having these borderline cruel and immature attitudes about weight gain toward women. That is thoroughly disrespectful, if a man does the equivalent, equally disrespectful (although I can't remember seeing a man unilaterally let himself go in this way other than in middle/old age). And once more, comparing income and career progression to baseline appearance is ridiculous because people simply don't have anywhere near the level of control over their careers, especially in this day and age, that they have over their appearance. Characterizing it as "expecting perfection" is also disingenuous. I've used the phrase "letting oneself go" for a reason, it has nothing to do with "expecting perfection," rationalizations to the contrary notwithstanding. Men get fat all the time. Men go bald. Do you know what I hear from women when their man’s bodies change? They still love them! They don’t berate them for their weight. They don’t call them names. And BS that people don’t have control over their careers. I can't understand how fitting in time to exercise is hard, or especially to maintain healthy eating choices, at all. The other things are constantly heard convenient excuses that don't hold any water. Modern day to day life is full of easy fatass choices and only slightly less easy "not fatass" choices, and those choices, by and large are well within our control. Well it is. People get bogged down with real life. That’s the reality. But keep calling people who are over weight names. That makes you look real mature and good yourself. *rolls eyes*. Everywhere. A woman can have a much higher body fat % than a man and still be perceived as attractive or shapely, and this is not a claim that women "have it better" just a fact. Women can carry a very high body fat percentage, and provided they have an acceptable hip waist (waist-hip) ratio, still be perceived as attractive. Moreover, because men generally carry more fat around the core, deviations in male body fat % from "standard" or "healthy" are much more visibly pronounced. Won't debate the points in this paragraph further. That’s right, women can only carry more weight if they have it in the right places. Their breasts and their butts. But not all women gain weight in those areas. And the only reason men find that acceptable because it adds to what men want from women in their breasts and butt. That has nothing to do with having good or healthy ideals about women’s bodies. Men are allowed to be fatter then women. Women are judged more cruely for it. Tell me the last time you saw a woman on here call a man that was over weight a name or started a thread about how awful american men were or how fat they are. Compared to the amount of men that start threads like that or call women names for being over weight.
Feelsgoodman Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 There was a recent article that actually says that men do not have a healthy idea about what a healthy woman's BMI is. Many men had rated a woman with a healthy BMI as overweight. And women that had a BMI that was lower then what was considered healthy, as healthy. I will see if I can't find the article. I've read an article that said that men didn't care what a woman's BMI was. What they actually cared about was whether a woman was physically appealing enough get them hard. And if she was fat, she couldn't. Imagine that! You can complain about "perceptions of thinness in the media" all you want, but the fact remains that most men find fat women unattractive. The world is not going to change to conform with your idea if what should be considered attractive.
Disenchantedly Yours Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 I've read an article that said that men didn't care what a woman's BMI was. What they actually cared about was whether a woman was physically appealing enough get them hard. And if she was fat, she couldn't. Imagine that! You can complain about "perceptions of thinness in the media" all you want, but the fact remains that most men find fat women unattractive. The world is not going to change to conform with your idea if what should be considered attractive. Considering the fact that my article pretty much discovered men don't have a healthy concept of what a regular BMI for a woman should be, you're article doesn't prove much. Further, you have no clue what I think should be considered attractive Feelsgoodman. So thank you. I will continue to complain about "perceptions of thinness in media". Because they are infact unrealistic and I do think men eat that stuff up. Thanks for caring.
Feelsgoodman Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 Further, you have no clue what I think should be considered attractive Feelsgoodman. So thank you. I will continue to complain about "perceptions of thinness in media". Because they are infact unrealistic and I do think men eat that stuff up. Thanks for caring. Go ahead, complain if it makes you feel better. If anything, American men are too accepting of fat women nowadays. This needs to change to motivate American women to take better care of themselves. American women are by far the fattest in the world (though UK is a close second). And if you try to convince me that the rest of the world is anorexic while hamburger-and-fries gobbling Americans are healthy, you are not going to get very far.
Disenchantedly Yours Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 Go ahead, complain if it makes you feel better. If anything, American men are too accepting of fat women nowadays. This needs to change to motivate American women to take better care of themselves. American women are by far the fattest in the world (though UK is a close second). And if you try to convince me that the rest of the world is anorexic while hamburger-and-fries gobbling Americans are healthy, you are not going to get very far. It's not a matter of what makes me feel better. It's a matter of discussing things that are important. You keep saying "American women this and that". You fail to include American men in any of your criticisms. American men are the fattest in the world!
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