I am curious

[Anywhere]

I have been reading here since December of 2010 and some things have always confused me. I don't know if I am not understanding or if there is a FAQ that I did not find but perhaps someone would enlighten me.

Why do BS's who either decided to stay with their WS or decided against it (either way doesn't seem to matter) refer to it as "lurve" in an affair and then call it "love" when describing the exact same feelings/moments with a spouse.

I understand not all relationships are created equal and some seem to call for the derision and contempt and belittling that terminology might use while in others it does appear that the "lurve" might have been with the BS, that a poor decision was made in the initial choice to marry and that they were able to find love with someoner else. Just as it may be that it is infatuation or novelty with an OP isn't it as possible that in cases where it is the exception and not the rule just as possible that either relationship fill that role?

I'm not saying it's right and I'm not looking to debate it, but this "lurve" (I don't understand where that word came from, is there a reference that migth explain it for me? I'm not trying to be obtuse I am actually wondering) or limerance could apply to either relationship in some situations correct?

Perhaps I am wrong in that I do not understand painting all situations with the same brush but on a support forum is it not more helpful to look at things and realize that not all are the same?

Edited March 29, 2012 by Anywhere
To complete a thought that I left incomplete.

[Owl]

Well...you'll find that most BS's (and no few xOW post affair) come to realize the huge difference in the relationships between the married couple, and the "affair couple".

 

They're typically not at all the same.

 

The "love" felt during an affair is a different critter entirely than the "love" felt between a husband and wife in a long term relationship.

 

Most commonly, it's not love in an affair...it's limerance. And even that limerance is greatly exaggerated by the circumstances of the affair itself. The secrecy, the "we're breaking the rules to be with each other" sensation, etc...all heighten the feelings of limerance in an affair.

 

But limerance is NOT the same thing as a long term, established love between partners.

 

So it's often "love" instead of love. Or "lurve" if you prefer.

 

Hope that clears it up a bit for you.

[Anywhere]

 

So it's often "love" instead of love. Or "lurve" if you prefer.

 

Hope that clears it up a bit for you.

 

It sort of does, and yet, I still think that it's generalizing far too much. I understand that there is pain on all sides, please no one think I am attempting to minimize theirs in any aspect of these triangles,however is it helpful for a BS to think that all affairs are the same? Would it not be beneficial to acknowledge that there may be differences and not to start with assumptions? I'd think the same would be true for the OW/OM as well?

[wannabdone]

Anywhere,

 

I think its the same point as the other thread that was started about why the xMM/xMW often times become a POS after they are gone.

 

It easier for OW/OM to accept rejection from a cheater, liar, etc. that they hate rather than someone who they think of as perfect.

 

I also think its easier for the BS to see it not as real love, which it might have or might not have been, in order to deal with the hurt and rejection they felt. Whether the BS decided to stay with their WS or not, it was still hurtful and still rejection. So its easier to deal with that rejection if you think of it as they didn't really love the OP.

 

Thats just MHO.

[findingnemo]

Anywhere, I don't know about other As. Mine was based on love. "Lurve", limerance, infatuation all don't apply because of our history. However, I accept that there may be a difference between the love we had and the love between xMM and his W. Theirs could possibly be the real thing...as in everlasting.

 

Your question brings up the fact that not all As are the same. Many are...but not all of them. If there's anything I've learnt, it's that love (even the real kind) isn't enough when faced with the reality of a M with children. A M represents much more than love between a H and W. There are the kids and then the life they've built together. The experiences, good and bad, that they've been through make the love between them enduring.

[Spark1111]

It sort of does, and yet, I still think that it's generalizing far too much. I understand that there is pain on all sides, please no one think I am attempting to minimize theirs in any aspect of these triangles,however is it helpful for a BS to think that all affairs are the same? Would it not be beneficial to acknowledge that there may be differences and not to start with assumptions? I'd think the same would be true for the OW/OM as well?

 

I think not only affairs, but all relationships start out the same: There is first proximity, then perhaps friendship, then a spark of attraction, then emotional connection.

 

The emotional connection is then fueled by tons of communication all day/week long.

 

Chemicals are released that induce not only "happy feelings" but a spike in hormones that rocket sexual desire.

 

There is nothing unique about the pattern of limerance in humans. It typically lasts one to two years for all of us. It can last longer in an affair because your access to each other is so limited, it heightens the chemicals.

 

After that, if the relationship continues, the feel good chemicals have waned and the rose-coloroed glasses come off. The sexual rush fades.

 

The real relationship begins and it IS hard to sustain.

 

And that's true for everyone and every relationship, whether in an affair or not.

 

So, some call it limerance, some call is "lurve," and some call it normal human biology.

 

If you had wound up with your AP, you too would eventually have limerance fade. That over the moon feeling does not last all that long in the scope of a long-term relationship.

 

It's the fun and easy beginning all relationship start with.

[beenburned]

Anywhere,

 

Not all affairs contain love.(of any kind)

 

Many affairs are for sex only.(both for the OW & MM)

[Owl]

It sort of does, and yet, I still think that it's generalizing far too much. I understand that there is pain on all sides, please no one think I am attempting to minimize theirs in any aspect of these triangles,however is it helpful for a BS to think that all affairs are the same? Would it not be beneficial to acknowledge that there may be differences and not to start with assumptions? I'd think the same would be true for the OW/OM as well?

 

Stick around here a while longer. You'll see that most affairs ARE the same.

 

Also note how many former OW also notice the same thing once their A ended and they've gone through some period of personal recovery.

 

Those differences are typically very, very minor in the overall picture of events in nearly every affair. I've read story after story after story. Very rarely is there something SIGNIFICANTLY different in the content...just the occasional detail that has little or nothing to do with the overall plot nor how the situation resolves itself.

[wannabdone]

Stick around here a while longer. You'll see that most affairs ARE the same.

 

Also note how many former OW also notice the same thing once their A ended and they've gone through some period of personal recovery.

 

Those differences are typically very, very minor in the overall picture of events in nearly every affair. I've read story after story after story. Very rarely is there something SIGNIFICANTLY different in the content...just the occasional detail that has little or nothing to do with the overall plot nor how the situation resolves itself.

 

 

Agreed, that most A are the same. Biggest difference being if there was actually love involved, or if it was for a good time side thing.

 

I think what makes each story different are the ppl themselves. How they handle things, what works best for them, etc. etc.

[East7]

Well...you'll find that most BS's (and no few xOW post affair) come to realize the huge difference in the relationships between the married couple, and the "affair couple".

 

They're typically not at all the same.

 

The "love" felt during an affair is a different critter entirely than the "love" felt between a husband and wife in a long term relationship.

 

Most commonly, it's not love in an affair...it's limerance. And even that limerance is greatly exaggerated by the circumstances of the affair itself. The secrecy, the "we're breaking the rules to be with each other" sensation, etc...all heighten the feelings of limerance in an affair.

 

But limerance is NOT the same thing as a long term, established love between partners.

 

I agree with the overall statement. HOWEVER, as I have posted many months ago in another thread : Love and Relationships are 2 different things. You can love and not be in a relationship or you can be in a relationship and not love your partner (it doesn't last but it happens).

 

Love is a feeling. Relationships are commitments.

 

I am sure that my xMW did love me and I did love her, but she was also very married and "off-limits". We both made a poor choice to have an affair and I am glad I am out of it. The feeling was real, the relationship was a fantasy.

 

Love is not enough if you can't put together other favorable conditions to have a relationship.

Edited March 29, 2012 by East7

[Spark1111]

Just my 2 cents here. When a BS describes the feelings within an affair as "lurve" it is often meant in a disparaging way because the BS doesn't believe, (rightly or wrongly, who knows which it is) that the mm felt real love for the ow which is of course cemented if there is a dday and the mm and bs attempt reconciliation.

We don't see it posted here as it is on some other sites but there are sites out there where lurve is one of the kindest things that are said about ow's. lol

 

I don't use it disparagingly.

 

It is the term I use to describe unrequieted love, or the one that got away, or the first person who broke our hearts.

 

We are forever wistful of the "what ifs....." because we were not in the relationship long enough to have it mature to long-term love with all its day to day wart and wrinkles. Who knows how good or bad it would have truly been. We can't because it ended.

 

And that is what KEEPS it a lovely, nostalgic feeling and memory.

[bentnotbroken]

I prefer the term "wub". It reminds me of the juvenile, all or nothing, can't see the zits because "he so fine" kind of feeling. I had that feeling when I met and married Mr. Messy. Good thing it didn't last. I stayed with him through the mess because I loved him. Expanding waist line, receding hairline, and gassy ways.

[frozensprouts]

Maybe I'm kind of cold hearted, but quite a few times, the love that other men/women speak of sounds more like either a desperate thing, or lie 'puppy love" that I remember from being a kid with my "first love" ( it was in harde four, our "dates" involved going to his house to play Dungeons and Dragons ( yes, I was a NERD! )while his mom commented on how "cute" we were...ran into him with his husband a few years ago...nice guy,and we had a good laugh about how my first boyfriend turned out to be a guy who was gay:laugh:)...

I remember the feeling of anticipation when I was going to see him, the way I'd turn coincidences into signs we were supposed to be together, the way I didn't want our time together to end, the way everything seemed brighter and happier when I was with him ( maybe that's why Dungeons and Dragons would seem so interesting...yeah, that must be it:laugh:) and the way it tore my heart out when our relationship did end.

 

I'm not saying I didn't "love" him, but when I think about it, I felt the same kind of thing with other guys too, especially the first "real boyfriend' I had, which made me excuse a lot of bad behavior on his part. The faact that seeing him was "forbidden" and not allowed made the feelings even stronger, as did his bad behavior towards me...I almost felt like if I loved him enough, he'd change...in a twisted way, that made me love him even more.

 

As I got older, and I started a new relationship, but it was never "forbidden" and I think that did take away part of the "rush"...but the feelings were still there, and they were able to mature past the infatuation stage into what I now see is real love.

 

I can't speak for every situation, but it seems like the love in an affair can so often be more like the first two situations...and while it may be able to grow, many times it seems like there just wasn't enough there to start with

[SidLyon]

I have been reading here since December of 2010 and some things have always confused me. I don't know if I am not understanding or if there is a FAQ that I did not find but perhaps someone would enlighten me.

Why do BS's who either decided to stay with their WS or decided against it (either way doesn't seem to matter) refer to it as "lurve" in an affair and then call it "love" when describing the exact same feelings/moments with a spouse.

...

 

Are you a troll?

 

I am a BS who has stayed with my fWH and I have never before used the word "lurve". What's more there are numerous BS here who I'm fairly sure have never used that word. [Not denying that some may have though]

 

As your premise is wrong, I can't take anything you write seriously.

[seren]

I think to answer the OP's question I would have to look at what I meant by Love. I don't dispute that some A relationships are all about Love, but if they are the A would be very shortlived and a divorce on the cards, as what person 'in love' could knowingly share the other with a person they lived with on a day to day basis?

 

When I spoke with OW she said she loved my H, that they were going to emigrate to New Zealand (?) begin a new life, that the reason she hated her H was that all he did was watch television all night, that she and H had a lot in common. OH, so who is going to take care of his elderly parents when you emigrate? didn't know we do this, all H does is watch sport on television at night, how were they going to finance this big adventure (she said the sale of MY house), umm, tis my house, our home, my money paid for it and a number of other things that said to me, you really, really have no idea about who H is, about his ordinary life, just this fantasy about what she would like to do and had weaved a new life with my H in her head. When she sent me the emails and text messages between them I read them all and could see the one sided fantasy being played out and knowing my H, could also see the replies that he had no idea what she was talking about. To me the fantasy is lurve.

 

I would have much preferred if H had been able to say he had felt love, lurve or even wub for the OW, it would have helped my healing far more than knowing he did it just because he was f'd up. I said that it was easier for me to accept that love between them had existed, he couldn't say it because that is not what it was for him, for her, she lurved. I hate that he used OW, I also will not have anything bad said about her, Why? because I think she was also fallout from the destructive behaviour he had at that time. Sister solidarity? maybe, compassion for another human being? maybe. That she didn't understand that the man she saw was not the man he really was, was indicative of the fantasy man she had built my H to be. In fact she has had a few A's since and I see that as someone who is looking for love and mixing it up with lurve.

 

Love? is what it means to the people who are in love. For me, it was after having a blazing row about my books, we were both in a strop, then while we were both sat on a bench in our garden drinking coffee he gives me a daisy, now I know that it is him saying sorry, let's call a truce and so we did and the book argument will keep for another day. He helped me to get off the bench as I have a disability and he turns the walk back to the house into a dance so I don't feel crap. The little day to day acts that cost nothing but mean so much add up to love, to me at least and have far more meaning than the stolen moments or the frantic bathroom texting that an A can often bring.

 

I don't doubt that for some A's love isn't a factor, but fail to see how anything hidden can be healthy or thrive.

[findingnemo]

I remember asking my H if he really believed the OWs when they told him they loved him. I was trying to make him see the error of his ways. I wasn't really concerned about the sex issue.

 

I asked him how he could be sure they love him when they have no idea what a jerk he can be. How selfish and controlling and psychotic he sometimes was. Did they have any idea that he needed a constant ear for his business problems, someone who could actually understand and provide solutions? How could they? If they loved him so much, why was I the one he called when he was in trouble for me to come to the rescue? Or why was it I who looked after his sick mother in hospital?

 

I asked him to figure out who loved him by staying with his miserable self, taking all his **** all the while ensuring that his children would love and respect him. I get why the BS' think it's lurve, wub, infatuation...anything but the real thing.

 

My H's OWs loved the funny, happy, sexy, content man who walked out our front door every morning. They loved his generosity with money, his love for a good time in restaurants where they had most of their meals and in nightclubs. They basically loved the man "I" enabled him to be by staying home and taking care of almost everything else that would otherwise frustrate or depress him.

 

Here in Africa we don't see As as deal breakers. We invest way too much in Ms to allow some third party to come reap the benefits. So I guess even culturally we are conditioned to see A love as unimportant compared to M love.

[findingnemo]

I remember asking my H if he really believed the OWs when they told him they loved him. I was trying to make him see the error of his ways. I wasn't really concerned about the sex issue.

 

I asked him how he could be sure they love him when they have no idea what a jerk he can be. How selfish and controlling and psychotic he sometimes was. Did they have any idea that he needed a constant ear for his business problems, someone who could actually understand and provide solutions? How could they? If they loved him so much, why was I the one he called when he was in trouble for me to come to the rescue? Or why was it I who looked after his sick mother in hospital?

 

I asked him to figure out who loved him by staying with his miserable self, taking all his **** all the while ensuring that his children would love and respect him. I get why the BS' think it's lurve, wub, infatuation...anything but the real thing.

 

My H's OWs loved the funny, happy, sexy, content man who walked out our front door every morning. They loved his generosity with money, his love for a good time in restaurants where they had most of their meals and in nightclubs. They basically loved the man "I" enabled him to be by staying home and taking care of almost everything else that would otherwise frustrate or depress him.

 

Here in Africa we don't see As as deal breakers. We invest way too much in our Ms to allow some third party to come reap the benefits. So I guess even culturally we are conditioned to see A love as unimportant compared to M love. It's simply not debatable.

[frozensprouts]

I remember asking my H if he really believed the OWs when they told him they loved him. I was trying to make him see the error of his ways. I wasn't really concerned about the sex issue.

 

I asked him how he could be sure they love him when they have no idea what a jerk he can be. How selfish and controlling and psychotic he sometimes was. Did they have any idea that he needed a constant ear for his business problems, someone who could actually understand and provide solutions? How could they? If they loved him so much, why was I the one he called when he was in trouble for me to come to the rescue? Or why was it I who looked after his sick mother in hospital?

 

I asked him to figure out who loved him by staying with his miserable self, taking all his **** all the while ensuring that his children would love and respect him. I get why the BS' think it's lurve, wub, infatuation...anything but the real thing.

 

My H's OWs loved the funny, happy, sexy, content man who walked out our front door every morning. They loved his generosity with money, his love for a good time in restaurants where they had most of their meals and in nightclubs. They basically loved the man "I" enabled him to be by staying home and taking care of almost everything else that would otherwise frustrate or depress him.

 

Here in Africa we don't see As as deal breakers. We invest way too much in our Ms to allow some third party to come reap the benefits. So I guess even culturally we are conditioned to see A love as unimportant compared to M love. It's simply not debatable.

 

 

that's very interesting...

how do you think that the other men/women in affairs view them? Do you think that they view the "affair love" as being as important as " marriage love"? Do you hear women or men in affairs speaking of their feelings the way people seem to do here in north america? do they talk about their feelings with the same type of language ( e.g.- "soul mates", love of my life, etc.?)

[findingnemo]

that's very interesting...

how do you think that the other men/women in affairs view them? Do you think that they view the "affair love" as being as important as " marriage love"? Do you hear women or men in affairs speaking of their feelings the way people seem to do here in north america? do they talk about their feelings with the same type of language ( e.g.- "soul mates", love of my life, etc.?)

 

Some of them do...when they are able to talk about it. Pergaps to trusted friends. Other people will look at you like you're an idiot. There is no such thing as a OW here in the real sense. There are second wives. That can be respected but to just be sleeping with a man with no ties...it's unacceptable.

 

It would be considered "shameless" to tell people your feelings for someone's spouse. As in they ask, "Have you no shame to be talking about another woman's H like that?" or "Do you really disrespect yourself to the extent of being there for a man to use as and when he pleases?" Strong language, huh? But very very common here. The only OWs and OMs who can afford to talk like that are usually "professional" MPs partners and don't have strong ties in the community like mistresses and call girls. You'll hear people say "Oh don't worry about her. That's what she does, she's a prostitute".

 

No, FS. OWS/OMs don't talk about their feelings just like that.

 

ETA: I apologize for the double post earlier.

[Lostinlife4now]

Excuse me all... but what the hell is wub and lurve? These are definitely new words or terms for me...

 

Can someone be kind enough to explain...don't have time to google!

 

Thanks....

 

Gotta learn something new everyday!!!

[Spark1111]

I remember asking my H if he really believed the OWs when they told him they loved him. I was trying to make him see the error of his ways. I wasn't really concerned about the sex issue.

 

I asked him how he could be sure they love him when they have no idea what a jerk he can be. How selfish and controlling and psychotic he sometimes was. Did they have any idea that he needed a constant ear for his business problems, someone who could actually understand and provide solutions? How could they? If they loved him so much, why was I the one he called when he was in trouble for me to come to the rescue? Or why was it I who looked after his sick mother in hospital?

 

I asked him to figure out who loved him by staying with his miserable self, taking all his **** all the while ensuring that his children would love and respect him. I get why the BS' think it's lurve, wub, infatuation...anything but the real thing.

 

My H's OWs loved the funny, happy, sexy, content man who walked out our front door every morning. They loved his generosity with money, his love for a good time in restaurants where they had most of their meals and in nightclubs. They basically loved the man "I" enabled him to be by staying home and taking care of almost everything else that would otherwise frustrate or depress him.

 

Here in Africa we don't see As as deal breakers. We invest way too much in Ms to allow some third party to come reap the benefits. So I guess even culturally we are conditioned to see A love as unimportant compared to M love.

 

Brilliant post, maybe because my H and I had the same exact conversation.

 

The affair is the perpetual third date: Everyone groomed to the nines with their best face and best personna put forward. Sexy, exciting, fun.

 

And I believe this right here describes the BS's resentment in a nutshell. We invested so much, sacrificed so much for you and for us, and this is how we get repaid?

 

Why couldn't you have groomed, charmed and dated us? Shown us your happy, confident side? Made the supreme effort to have sexy, exciting, fun with us?

 

One thing driven home to my spouse in therapy: So, how did you get to be so successful? When you were doing A, what was Spark doing? Supporting him)

 

Another point: So, when A went wrong, why did you blame Spark? Was that HER fault? (no, it was not.)

 

It's all good. Today I have a man who adores me, is so happy I gave him a second chance, and thanks me for my support with each rung climbed on the corporate ladder.

 

I believed in him when no one else did. Too bad it took an affair and me almost walking out the door to become appreciated for my efforts.

[findingnemo]

Excuse me all... but what the hell is wub and lurve? These are definitely new words or terms for me...

 

Can someone be kind enough to explain...don't have time to google!

 

Thanks....

 

Gotta learn something new everyday!!!

 

Bent says "wub" is what she calls high school type love - a crush perhaps. "Lurve" is that crazy, fog like type of love people in As feel. Basically these are terms used to show that the love in As and Ms is different.

[findingnemo]

Brilliant post, maybe because my H and I had the same exact conversation.

 

The affair is the perpetual third date: Everyone groomed to the nines with their best face and best personna put forward. Sexy, exciting, fun.

 

And I believe this right here describes the BS's resentment in a nutshell. We invested so much, sacrificed so much for you and for us, and this is how we get repaid?

 

Why couldn't you have groomed, charmed and dated us? Shown us your happy, confident side? Made the supreme effort to have sexy, exciting, fun with us?

 

One thing driven home to my spouse in therapy: So, how did you get to be so successful? When you were doing A, what was Spark doing? Supporting him)

 

Another point: So, when A went wrong, why did you blame Spark? Was that HER fault? (no, it was not.)

 

It's all good. Today I have a man who adores me, is so happy I gave him a second chance, and thanks me for my support with each rung climbed on the corporate ladder.

 

I believed in him when no one else did. Too bad it took an affair and me almost walking out the door to become appreciated for my efforts.

 

Exactly, Spark. And I'm so happy for you your H saw the light. In many cases MPs don't and the damage is horrific.

[wannabdone]

Brilliant post, maybe because my H and I had the same exact conversation.

 

The affair is the perpetual third date: Everyone groomed to the nines with their best face and best personna put forward. Sexy, exciting, fun.

 

And I believe this right here describes the BS's resentment in a nutshell. We invested so much, sacrificed so much for you and for us, and this is how we get repaid?

 

Why couldn't you have groomed, charmed and dated us? Shown us your happy, confident side? Made the supreme effort to have sexy, exciting, fun with us?

 

One thing driven home to my spouse in therapy: So, how did you get to be so successful? When you were doing A, what was Spark doing? Supporting him)

 

Another point: So, when A went wrong, why did you blame Spark? Was that HER fault? (no, it was not.)

 

It's all good. Today I have a man who adores me, is so happy I gave him a second chance, and thanks me for my support with each rung climbed on the corporate ladder.

 

I believed in him when no one else did. Too bad it took an affair and me almost walking out the door to become appreciated for my efforts.

 

 

Spark, I have a question for you. If your H had never had an A, and you lived your life as you had before. (sorry, I haven't read your back ground...not that much time) But, if you had been on the path prior to the A, would you be really happy? I mean down deep. With the love that you wanted and deserved? Or is there a part of you that although it was an awful way for your M to turn around, are you somewhat glad it did? I am asking because I see some M's that are better after an A. And although I am sure the BS wishes it NEVER happened, are actually in a better place than before.

 

For me, I wish like hell I would have NEVER had an A. However, I have grown so much through this, and I know what I want and what I do not want, and I am at peace now. So, although I wish I had not done it, I can certainly see how God really does turn things to good.

 

How do you feel about this school of thought?

[SoMovinOn]

Why do BS's who either decided to stay with their WS or decided against it (either way doesn't seem to matter) refer to it as "lurve" in an affair and then call it "love" when describing the exact same feelings/moments with a spouse.

 

It's called not growing up. Like little kids, the best some people can do to express themselves is to make up childish names.