After the break up....xMM good or evil?

[findingnemo]

What do you think about your xMM? Is he a good guy or a bad guy? Why do think so?

 

I wonder because many times it seems to me like people think the xMM is a "bad" guy. I don't...and I started thinking about it because it came up in another thread. So here's what I think of xMM.

 

He was/is a good man. He was selfish for a while and wanted to have the two women he loved in his life. Basically cake eating. But it isn't a reflection of his overall personality. I believe he's not a serial cheater (maybe his W would disagree - no idea) but all the things I saw and loved in him when I first met him remain true. I'm not excusing his cheating by the way.

 

I find it odd that a OW would fall in love with a man and later decide that he is a monster ( a liar, a cheat, a selfish man who doesn't deserve the love of his W). To make matters worse, I keep seeing people claiming to pity the BW who chooses to stay...I didn't get it. In my case, I think she should stay because he is a good man...who made a mistake. So I need to understand.

 

What do you think about your xMM now? Why do you think whatever it is?

[Owl]

Well, in many cases (but certainly not all), the end of the affair comes about when the OW/OM discovers that their affair partner decieved them in some fashion. Either deception about their long term intentions (planning on leaving the wife, etc...), deception about the current situation (find out that they're still married, or still engaging in romantic relations with their spouse), or deception about their own past (this isn't their first affair, etc...).

 

Discovering these untruths/deceptions/etc...will often give the OW/OM great reason to view their former affair partner as a less than honorable person.

 

And getting angry over being treated poorly is a very successful way to move on and begin healing after a relationship ends badly.

[FightClub]

Hey findingnemo,

 

 

It's something I've absorbed from reading here for so long now as well and I also think it's a matter of perspective. When you see normal relationships break up, it's sometimes necessary for one side or the other to view their former significant other as 'wrong' or 'evil' one.

 

I would assume to protect themselves from further pain, pain as abstract action of the break down of the relationship.

 

When I think back to my time with exMW and where I'm at now, I don't hate her or feel much for her these days, honestly. I believe that a lot of times I view 'fate' and things that are meant to happen as a given, no matter what the choices people are bound to end.

 

Letting go of that end is the hardest for everyone involved. There are no such thing as absolutes in terms of 'good' or 'evil' people, with some rare exceptions I'm sure but at it's core you just have to view someone as bad in order to get over them and then once you realize that it is not the case at all that you come to terms with where you are at in life and the roles you assign to former xAP's become less relevant.

 

It's a matter of really understanding what has transpired and what you do with the life you have now; making the choices to go where you have to go from that point.

 

-FC

[findingnemo]

I understand that, Owl. When you find the MM has told you lies over and over, I get that one would think of him as a "bad" person. My problem is as follows. Many times the OW hears different things from the MM. He may say negative things about the W but then he'll also say other things that aren't negative. For example, they are going on a holiday as a family. The W is dealing with issues to do with the kids. So many different things...any other person would interpret them as a sign of a functioning couple.

 

Maybe it's because my xMM never said a bad thing about his W. But I just don't understand how OWs can seemingly refuse to accept that perhaps the MM loves his W too. Not all MMs are sociopaths who build castles in the air saying terrible things about the Ws. Not all of them successfully hide their M life from OWs. (Please feel free to make this about OMs too). So how come many OWs decide that the MM is a liar and a user when they already knew he was M? How come when the OW decides it's over, I feel like there's a need to demonize the MM?

 

Yes the MM was selfish and frankly is in the wrong. But I believe that as OPs we also need to realize that in some fashion we enabled this selfish behaviour.

[wannabdone]

I think this is a good thread to start. I see what you are talking about, with OW/OM saying that the xMM/xMW is now a POS. When these were the very people they broke every single morale code to be with previously.

 

For me, mine was while I was in A, I thought of him as the most perfect human being that walked the planet. He could do no wrong. Anytime that he would do something to me hurtful, or something to his W that was hurtful, I would be the first person to defend it, and excuse it.

 

However, I realized through NC, as we always hear BS's say when the "fog" lifted, what kind of person he really was. And how he constantly lied and manipulated and was so silver tounged that he had an answer for everything, and it seemed very believable. But he was a sick person who would probably continue to do this far after I was gone. He still has not been honest with his wife, and he still 5 days out of the week, tries to contact me in some way. Although his BS thinks he is working on it and being honest. I originally called her or emailed her when he did so, but this turned out to be a horrible mess, to which he would just smooth it over and she didn't believe me anyways. It would make her act crazier toward me, to the point I had to get an attorney to write her a letter telling her she would be charged with harassment. I understand why she doesn't believe him, HES VERY GOOD! And she is still in the fog, which I have realized that is easy when you are around him. Look at the fog I was in and I never lived with the man, or had his children. So, I have stopped telling her, and ignore all contact from him.

 

So, yes I had a chaned of heart about him after it was over. And I had a change of heart about the BS as well. I see why she did what she did, and I see what he did and continues to do. I really feel sorry for her, as I know she deserves better. But just like everyone else, she will have to come to that point in time on her own.

[findingnemo]

Hey findingnemo,

 

 

It's something I've absorbed from reading here for so long now as well and I also think it's a matter of perspective. When you see normal relationships break up, it's sometimes necessary for one side or the other to view their former significant other as 'wrong' or 'evil' one.

 

I would assume to protect themselves from further pain, pain as abstract action of the break down of the relationship.

 

When I think back to my time with exMW and where I'm at now, I don't hate her or feel much for her these days, honestly. I believe that a lot of times I view 'fate' and things that are meant to happen as a given, no matter what the choices people are bound to end.

 

Letting go of that end is the hardest for everyone involved. There are no such thing as absolutes in terms of 'good' or 'evil' people, with some rare exceptions I'm sure but at it's core you just have to view someone as bad in order to get over them and then once you realize that it is not the case at all that you come to terms with where you are at in life and the roles you assign to former xAP's become less relevant.

 

It's a matter of really understanding what has transpired and what you do with the life you have now; making the choices to go where you have to go from that point.

 

-FC

 

Thanks, FC. So perhaps viewing the xMP as evil is way for the OW/OM to detach? It kind of makes sense, doesn't it?

 

One thing that makes me really uncomfortable (and this has been the case from day one here) is the way OWs/OMs vilify the MP. I can understand the BW doing so because vows have been broken. The promises made were specific and the MP clearly violated the BS' trust.

 

Let's take me, for example. I was in love with a man who was married. I knew it...he knew it...heck, everybody knew he was married. How exactly did he break any promises to me? I'm not overlooking the fact that there are serial cheaters who lie and distort things to get their way. Many MPs don't really lie. They are clear from the get go that they are M. They are clear that they will not leave. They are clear that they love their children and the family as it is.

 

Telling me he loved me was the truth but my xMM never ever said he'd leave his W, or abandon his kids, or drop his life as he'd worked so hard for. How do I wake up and claim that he led me on? How? Was my A abnormal?

[wannabdone]

I understand that, Owl. When you find the MM has told you lies over and over, I get that one would think of him as a "bad" person. My problem is as follows. Many times the OW hears different things from the MM. He may say negative things about the W but then he'll also say other things that aren't negative. For example, they are going on a holiday as a family. The W is dealing with issues to do with the kids. So many different things...any other person would interpret them as a sign of a functioning couple.

 

Maybe it's because my xMM never said a bad thing about his W. But I just don't understand how OWs can seemingly refuse to accept that perhaps the MM loves his W too. Not all MMs are sociopaths who build castles in the air saying terrible things about the Ws. Not all of them successfully hide their M life from OWs. (Please feel free to make this about OMs too). So how come many OWs decide that the MM is a liar and a user when they already knew he was M? How come when the OW decides it's over, I feel like there's a need to demonize the MM?

 

Yes the MM was selfish and frankly is in the wrong. But I believe that as OPs we also need to realize that in some fashion we enabled this selfish behaviour.

 

 

In these cases, where someone just "messed up" to put it lightly, and wasn't good at hiding it, or whatever... I think the OW/OM have to find a reason to take that pain and hurt away that comes from being rejected maybe. So they demonized the xMM/xMW to make them into an evil POS that lied, cheated, etc. etc. I think its a pretty common thing in the grieving process. Easier to rejected by someone you hate and think of as scum, rather than be rejected by someone you think of as perfect for you.

[Anywhere]

What do you think about your xMM? Is he a good guy or a bad guy? Why do think so?

 

I wonder because many times it seems to me like people think the xMM is a "bad" guy. I don't...and I started thinking about it because it came up in another thread. So here's what I think of xMM.

 

He was/is a good man. He was selfish for a while and wanted to have the two women he loved in his life. Basically cake eating. But it isn't a reflection of his overall personality. I believe he's not a serial cheater (maybe his W would disagree - no idea) but all the things I saw and loved in him when I first met him remain true. I'm not excusing his cheating by the way.

 

I find it odd that a OW would fall in love with a man and later decide that he is a monster ( a liar, a cheat, a selfish man who doesn't deserve the love of his W). To make matters worse, I keep seeing people claiming to pity the BW who chooses to stay...I didn't get it. In my case, I think she should stay because he is a good man...who made a mistake. So I need to understand.

 

What do you think about your xMM now? Why do you think whatever it is?

 

I think of him the same person with all the same wonderful qualities and not so wonderful qualities that I found attractive in the first place. I can't imagine jeopradizing everything for someone that I would ever think badly about, people hurt each other, it doesn't make them bad people it just makes us human.

[findingnemo]

Wannabdone, your xMM sounds like a very unstable person who doesn't really care about hurting people.

 

SIT, I like what you said about coming to see your xMM as a whole person. It's so sad, isn't it? The xMM isn't a bad person but the pain and havoc he wrecks by having an A is unbelievable. I sometimes wonder who has it worse amongst the people involved. The BS obviously gets hurt and so does the OP, but what we never hear is the side of the MP who caused all the havoc.

 

I think of him the same person with all the same wonderful qualities and not so wonderful qualities that I found attractive in the first place. I can't imagine jeopradizing everything for someone that I would ever think badly about, people hurt each other, it doesn't make them bad people it just makes us human.

 

Anywhere, I identify with this. XMM is the same person with the same wonderful qualities I fell in love with. He made a mistake...a huge mistake. But I swear that had it not been for me encouraging him, he would never have done it. I take full responsibility for my part in it. To think him evil is to deny the facts. He felt guilty, he questioned what he was doing, he kept asking me why he felt this way, how he could love me and still love her. I had no answers because in my mind I wondered what kind of man would do this to a woman who loves him. What would he then do to me? So many questions... So I made the choice for him and I ended it.

 

I'm guilty of enabling xMM to cheat on a woman who loves him. I can't in any real sense claim that he lied to me. I can't bring myself to think him a liar. I can't with all honesty say he played mind games with me because he didn't.

[FightClub]

Thanks, FC. So perhaps viewing the xMP as evil is way for the OW/OM to detach? It kind of makes sense, doesn't it?

 

One thing that makes me really uncomfortable (and this has been the case from day one here) is the way OWs/OMs vilify the MP. I can understand the BW doing so because vows have been broken. The promises made were specific and the MP clearly violated the BS' trust.

 

Let's take me, for example. I was in love with a man who was married. I knew it...he knew it...heck, everybody knew he was married. How exactly did he break any promises to me? I'm not overlooking the fact that there are serial cheaters who lie and distort things to get their way. Many MPs don't really lie. They are clear from the get go that they are M. They are clear that they will not leave. They are clear that they love their children and the family as it is.

 

Telling me he loved me was the truth but my xMM never ever said he'd leave his W, or abandon his kids, or drop his life as he'd worked so hard for. How do I wake up and claim that he led me on? How? Was my A abnormal?

 

 

It's an interesting question, because it can be case-specific for what you're looking for. In my case, xMW had spoken so much about the things that were wrong her in marriage over a long-distance communication that I couldn't verify at the time what was true or false.

 

Sometime later, I'd say a year after the EA/PA ended, I did discover that some of the things she said were true. They did indeed separate for a while, during the the last part of the affair, which probably made it easier for her conscience to go to the next step of a PA.

 

Amazingly, a lot of the red flags I hadn't considered until recently did not get set off until the last few months as I was really digging deep within myself for my own answers.

 

So, now that I've said that, I can go back to your question.

 

 

I believe it's entirely possible that the WS didn't say anything bad about the marriage as a way of keeping you from thinking that anything had to change i.e. 'things are fine here, so let's continue what we have.', having the best of both worlds.

 

In that sense, I think it's tougher for someone to be mad at an exAP if everything was 'ok' in the marriage on the outside. In my case, it's entirely possible that a lot of things were wrong in exMW marriage but it made me uncomfortable to be her therapist, which I refused to listen to.

 

So instead I focused on the better parts, lifting her up, raising spirits, naturally trying to help by guidance. What I hadn't considered is that the long hours of communication was causing a connection of sorts and I became exposed to parts of the marriage and intimate details about her and married life that quite frankly should be kept between both spouses.

 

Had I disengaged and walked away earlier, things would be different but I can say that you are healing and learning, asking the right questions and that's the purpose of finding out more about yourself.

 

We have to travel down certain paths in life both intentionally and unintentionally to see.

 

You're doing well though, I think whatever your circumstance with xMM was will no longer matter at some point, you'll get there in time.

 

 

 

-FC

Edited March 29, 2012 by FightClub

[beenburned]

I truly think that OW who find out they had been lied to all along, are the ones that think XMM is a bad person. Especially if they find out he was or still is a serial cheater, and that their R was not special at all.

 

This is what happened with my STBXSIL. He had 2 OW, who knew nothing about each other, until d-day.(long term R's)

 

They both had been continuously lied to about everything and it all came out in the open when they called my D and all compared notes.

 

They all dumped him. My D immediately filed for D, which should be final by the end of this year.

 

This situation can also apply to the BW/BH who didn't know what kind of a person they were really married to.(until d-day) If the lies and deceptions were long and numerous(such as above), I'm sure the BW/BH now thinks their xspouse was a bad person.

[donnamaybe]

What do you think about your xMM? Is he a good guy or a bad guy? Why do think so?

 

I wonder because many times it seems to me like people think the xMM is a "bad" guy. I don't...and I started thinking about it because it came up in another thread. So here's what I think of xMM.

 

He was/is a good man. He was selfish for a while and wanted to have the two women he loved in his life. Basically cake eating. But it isn't a reflection of his overall personality. I believe he's not a serial cheater (maybe his W would disagree - no idea) but all the things I saw and loved in him when I first met him remain true. I'm not excusing his cheating by the way.

 

I find it odd that a OW would fall in love with a man and later decide that he is a monster ( a liar, a cheat, a selfish man who doesn't deserve the love of his W). To make matters worse, I keep seeing people claiming to pity the BW who chooses to stay...I didn't get it. In my case, I think she should stay because he is a good man...who made a mistake. So I need to understand.

 

What do you think about your xMM now? Why do you think whatever it is?

What would you think about him if you found out he had moved onto another OW? Would you then think he just "wanted to be with the two women he loved?" Or would you think he is just a selfish entitled jerk?

[donnamaybe]

I truly think that OW who find out they had been lied to all along, are the ones that think XMM is a bad person. Especially if they find out he was or still is a serial cheater, and that their R was not special at all.

 

This is what happened with my STBXSIL. He had 2 OW, who knew nothing about each other, until d-day.(long term R's)

 

They both had been continuously lied to about everything and it all came out in the open when they called my D and all compared notes.

 

They all dumped him. My D immediately filed for D, which should be final by the end of this year.

 

This situation can also apply to the BW/BH who didn't know what kind of a person they were really married to.(until d-day) If the lies and deceptions were long and numerous(such as above), I'm sure the BW/BH now thinks their xspouse was a bad person.

Yes. This is what I was getting at with my questions to the OP.

[whichwayisup]

But I just don't understand how OWs can seemingly refuse to accept that perhaps the MM loves his W too

 

Just my 2 cents, but probably because the feelings and emotions felt won't allow an OW (some OW, not all) to even consider that a man who cheats on his wife still loves her. There's also the jealously issue that happens too, obviously if one is having an affair, the heart is invested, emotional attachment etc., and it's automatic that feelings will be hurt when he goes home to his wife, lives life with his wife, has sex with his wife.

[Breathless]

Its been almost 9 months since I have seen or heard from my xAP. Our affair ended on DDay when my H found out about the affair and xMM was forced to confess to his wife. We didn't have a sad and emotional goodbye - we just went into straight no contact (by his choice) - we never had a goodbye. I walked away from my career at a company I have been with for 12 years (xMM still works there), my husband moved out for a few months before we decided to R, and lost the respect and love from my family and friends (husband went public with my affair). Needless to say, I was broken down completely and am rebuilding myself back up slowly but surely. What I cannot seem to do is view my xMM as an evil person. He realized his/our wrong doings and hopefully he is doing all in his power to earn the forgiveness and love of his wife. We always knew and accepted that the time we had with each other was a stolen moment - nothing more. So, he was, is and always will be a man who I will love regardless of how we started or ended.

[wannabdone]

Wannabdone, your xMM sounds like a very unstable person who doesn't really care about hurting people.

 

SIT, I like what you said about coming to see your xMM as a whole person. It's so sad, isn't it? The xMM isn't a bad person but the pain and havoc he wrecks by having an A is unbelievable. I sometimes wonder who has it worse amongst the people involved. The BS obviously gets hurt and so does the OP, but what we never hear is the side of the MP who caused all the havoc.

 

 

 

Anywhere, I identify with this. XMM is the same person with the same wonderful qualities I fell in love with. He made a mistake...a huge mistake. But I swear that had it not been for me encouraging him, he would never have done it. I take full responsibility for my part in it. To think him evil is to deny the facts. He felt guilty, he questioned what he was doing, he kept asking me why he felt this way, how he could love me and still love her. I had no answers because in my mind I wondered what kind of man would do this to a woman who loves him. What would he then do to me? So many questions... So I made the choice for him and I ended it.

 

I'm guilty of enabling xMM to cheat on a woman who loves him. I can't in any real sense claim that he lied to me. I can't bring myself to think him a liar. I can't with all honesty say he played mind games with me because he didn't.

 

 

You have no idea girl. I had no idea, until I had to take a step back. And talk about a jaw dropping experience to realize I had been ropped into a sociopath. Someone I thought was so wonderful was nothing more than a crumb.

 

Embarrassing for me, that someone who is smart, education, etc. could find themselves wrapped into someone like that. Makes me sick. Just thank God I have seen it now.

 

I wish it wouldn't have been like that. I wish I would have realized this man wasn't so awful and disguisting. I wish I could say I didn't waste 10 years of my life and cause myself such pain and misery for someone who was so awful. But I did. And now no matter how "smart", and educated and whatever I am I have to realize my own issues that got me so deeply involved with someone like him. My gosh, I made better choices on men when I was in HS and college, but I grow up and then throw everything away and devaste so many ppl by doing this?

 

I know not everyone is like me. Not everyone was raised by a socipath for a father, and find themselves attached to ppl they shouldn't be. But I have to believe there are some. And my only hope is that I can help someone, someday. Maybe not get involved with an A, maybe help them see what the real reasons are for why they are holding on so tighthly to something so hurtful.

 

I wish I could have seen all of this stuff with in myself years ago, and possibly escaped some of this hurt. But, I am just glad I finally did. And I am happy that I am now processing everything and healing myself. Rather than going the rest of my life believing that certain things growing up didn't have any real baring on me, and I was "okay". I feel like I have a shot at real happiness and peace now, better than even before I met xMM. I really hope I can help someone have the same.

[skylarblue]

I don’t think it’s unusual in Rs (not just As and also friendships) for one or both to have negative thoughts about a partner if it doesn’t end amicably or mutually. Most people who feel wronged, rejected, dismissed, lied to, taken advantage of (some things people usually feel when a Rs ends badly or one-sided) aren’t quick to think of the other favorably. Sometimes the view is unwarranted and skewed. Sometimes it is applicable. There are people who (purposefully or falsely) present themselves in a good light (as a good person) who really aren’t or do change (for the worse) behavior/character.

 

Personally, I don’t think of xMM as a bad person. I guess it’s because although not completely honest all of the time, he wasn’t misleading about his situation or intentions which were "I’m married and intend to stay married, but I want to see you too". And I never really “expected” anything or I expected anything from him meaning since he was capable of continuing an A (and the way he was having an A) I shouldn’t be surprised about how anything panned out no matter how negative. I guess it’s kinda like “if you have no expectations then you’re never disappointed”. That was kinda like the underlying foundation on my part so there’s really nothing I feel ill-willed about (doesn’t mean I’m not hurt by it though). Plus, I have to own my sh*t. xMM did nothing more than I allowed him whether positive or negative. What I decided to accept is 100% on me, not him.

 

I do feel “pity” for his W. Not because she’s married to a bad or evil person, but because she doesn’t fully know who she is married to. I’d “pity” anyone who was 100% committed to their partner and M, and was blind to the fact that their partner wasn’t the same.

[wannabdone]

Its been almost 9 months since I have seen or heard from my xAP. Our affair ended on DDay when my H found out about the affair and xMM was forced to confess to his wife. We didn't have a sad and emotional goodbye - we just went into straight no contact (by his choice) - we never had a goodbye. I walked away from my career at a company I have been with for 12 years (xMM still works there), my husband moved out for a few months before we decided to R, and lost the respect and love from my family and friends (husband went public with my affair). Needless to say, I was broken down completely and am rebuilding myself back up slowly but surely. What I cannot seem to do is view my xMM as an evil person. He realized his/our wrong doings and hopefully he is doing all in his power to earn the forgiveness and love of his wife. We always knew and accepted that the time we had with each other was a stolen moment - nothing more. So, he was, is and always will be a man who I will love regardless of how we started or ended.

 

 

Breathless, proud of you for your growth! You seem like an amazing person!

[Breathless]

Breathless, proud of you for your growth! You seem like an amazing person!

 

Wannabdone...thank you for your kind words. Not amazing just someone who sees the error in her ways and will live the rest of my life learning from this lesson. Day by Day...its all I have...I am just waiting for the time when a memory of my xMM crosses my mind and I not feel that ache in my heart...I want to be able to have a memory cross my mind and I smile.

 

Thank you again...It was my first ever post/response on a board or forum. I've been lurking on the site since the DDay back in July 2011. Never had to courage to speak out until now. You have made it well worth it!

[wannabdone]

Wannabdone...thank you for your kind words. Not amazing just someone who sees the error in her ways and will live the rest of my life learning from this lesson. Day by Day...its all I have...I am just waiting for the time when a memory of my xMM crosses my mind and I not feel that ache in my heart...I want to be able to have a memory cross my mind and I smile.

 

Thank you again...It was my first ever post/response on a board or forum. I've been lurking on the site since the DDay back in July 2011. Never had to courage to speak out until now. You have made it well worth it!

 

Well I am glad you spoke out. And I am glad I made it worth it.

 

And yes, AMAZING. Very few people can honestly see the error of their ways, and sincerely try to fix things. That makes you pretty amazing in my book!!

[MissBee]

It is possible to date someone who is not a good person, but because for whatever reason you were in the fog of love you convinced yourself they were, then when you're out of it and can be more objective, you see exactly how they were not as glowing as you idealized them to be. Many women will defend their abusive partner while still with them, and only after out and looking back or gaining more self-awareness realize that it was a pretty toxic dynamic.

 

 

My exAP is not a bad person....he is just not a good relationship partner. He wasn't one to me and isn't one to his woman. He is a liar, he doesn't have much of a conscience in terms of cheating, he likes to have his cake and eat it too, he is manipulative etc. Sure he had other good qualities, but those qualities were superficial IMO, as it relates to being a good partner, and those superficial qualities were the ones that I clung to while in the A....not seeing the bigger picture. He is a great dad I'm sure and he's pretty good at his job and he has a nice personality.....but he is simply not a good romantic partner and is quite self-serving in that regard.

 

I had to be out of the situation to see this. When he resurfaced late last year and tried to restart the A was when I saw with complete clarity this reality. As I STILL idealized him and thought he was so great and it was just "bad timing".....yesss....I still believed he was good after the A. It was not until 4 years later and him resurfacing that I finally changed my opinion. I realized that before, I tried to single out the A as an anomaly because of our great love and connection. When he resurfaced I started to see how fictitious and romanticized my views were and how in fact he is very brazen and self-serving and had NO remorse or any sense of responsibility or guilt or anything and was always that way, I just was blind to it before. He boldly said he had a relationship and still wanted me.....wtf?! I was in no fog then and was not attached to him so could see as plain as day that what I was in love with back then was a fiction and the me that wanted him was a very different person who demanded a lot less. I had changed....he did not. That's what I realized. He was exactly the same as he always was....I was the one who was now different so saw him very differently.

 

So yea....he is not an evil person. He has other good traits and I'm sure to friends, family, coworkers and maybe his LT girlfriend who perhaps doesn't know (or does she?) about his cheating ways, he is excellent. But to me... I don't respect him and see too many ugly aspects of him to award him person of the year awards. But this is mostly in a romantic context as I said, he's not a good relationship partner, but outside of that, he has redeemable qualities. So maybe THAT is the difference people need to make. Someone can be a bad person in general and also bad relationship material or just bad relationship material and has very poor relationship skills but in other arenas is an okay person.

Edited March 29, 2012 by MissBee

[Gentlegirl2]

I don't think anybody is all good or all bad.

 

xMM came from a broken home, was removed from his mothe's custody at 8 and sent to a Catholic boarding school. He says he was brutalized and sodomized there and his father finally removed him. IF I can believe what he told me.

 

There is something missing in him that he is still looking to find. I don't think he will ever find it, because he doesn't see it.

 

He raised 4 kids, always had a good solid job, and has held responible positions in volunteer work??

 

Hell I don't know if the good outweighs the bad or not. Guess he's just another man, made up of many parts.

 

GG

[U472439]

Was just talking about this yesterday with a friend. No, I don't view my xMW as a bad person, anymore than I view myself as a bad person for being in the A. I do, however, view a lot of things about the affair now a bit differently than I did while it was happening (and in truth, I am not even two weeks out of it, so feel somewhat shaky meta-commenting on it as if it is ancient history).

 

I don't view our story as some kind of magical, fate-driven episode of love -- I tend to view it as an extremely intense, albeit highly circumstancial intertwining of emotions and people that might never have happened if she hadn't been married, looking for someone on the side, and me being way into her (and in some way, the idea of "stealing" her away from her H). I feel foolish now for feeling that way, but a bit wiser knowing that there's no way in hell I'd ever do it again.

 

I think more about the lies she had to have been telling her H and me about what was going on inside her head. I think about all the angst I felt wondering how everything would play out, how I could love someone who was married and could never really be with me. Sometimes, I wonder if she will ever contact me again, and what I will say or feel at that time. No, I can never hate this person -- as someone mentioned earlier, all the things that I liked about her in the first place will still be there. It's just that one aspect -- the going against one's morals in service of something everyone involved knows is wrong -- that's enough to sour pretty much the entire prospect of being in a relationship w/her.

[jwi71]

Of course people involved in an A are bad regardless of their excuse.

 

Does this make them COMPLETELY bad? No.

 

It is up to the individual to decide to what degree the AP's are bad and each will find a different answer with equally diverse justifications for that answer.

 

For me, being a willing participant to an A excludes you from my life. The character traits required are not traits I would want in my "inner circle" - or even my "outer one". For me, the level of callous, premeditated and conspiratorial deceit, dishonesty and the knowing and willful inflection of pain to others (and themselves) does not a good person make.

 

I aim this at no single person here at LS - just my viewpoint.

[frozensprouts]

Well, in many cases (but certainly not all), the end of the affair comes about when the OW/OM discovers that their affair partner decieved them in some fashion. Either deception about their long term intentions (planning on leaving the wife, etc...), deception about the current situation (find out that they're still married, or still engaging in romantic relations with their spouse), or deception about their own past (this isn't their first affair, etc...).

 

Discovering these untruths/deceptions/etc...will often give the OW/OM great reason to view their former affair partner as a less than honorable person.

 

And getting angry over being treated poorly is a very successful way to move on and begin healing after a relationship ends badly.

 

sometimes I wonder if when a married man/woman tells their affair partner that they want to leave their marriage do they really mean it at that point in time? Maybe they do, I don't know. I guess each person is different. Maybe they are just daydreaming, but when reality hits, they realize it's not what they want...

again, I don't know.

Edited March 29, 2012 by frozensprouts